I'm probably not the best tech historian, but, to be more comprehensive, shouldn't this tableau have started with a picture of someone introducing the Newton, four or five years earlier?
(Unless you feel Newton should only relate to PDA's, not "tablets"...?)
Newton started development around 1988.
The Tablet PC from Microsoft was an iMac with LCD instead of CRT. We may as well go back to Psion and Casio, or what about pen and paper. It is all just a natural progression.
Microsoft released a tablet that was a PC and useless in the market although was a bold move with a wrong vision. Apple released a completely new device, concept wise, and revolutionized tablet computing actually creating a whole new market. They did not try to be all things to all people or be compatible with their desktop offering. They also had a vision and got people to buy into the vision, the fruits of which we see today.
I hope Microsoft gets it right and it works for them. Windows is really the only alternative on a large scale to compete long term. If they get the vision right, they may get some traction. Lets see what happens once it is actually available.
Personally, I think the RT version will be a failure. The Pro version, however, is a different beast. You could instead ask this: What does your MacBook do better than an iPad, Android pad or other tablet. The answer is: almost everything.
I'm an admitted PC user. I have had an iPad, and currently have an iPhone, but I try to be unbiased on these things. Mac OSX is great, and so are just about every other Apple product I've used. However, the biggest defense of the short comings of the iPad (which depends on your needs, I suppose) were always down played with "But it's not supposed to be a laptop replacement". I heard that thousands of times when the iPad came out. If we heard this so much, then clearly there are people who do want to replace their laptop with a tablet. But because the apps on the iPad and other tablet OS's are not as full featured as their OSX, Windows, and Linux counterparts, there was a lot of complaining. This means that there are quite a few people who do want something more akin to a full blown desktop in the palm of their hand. If Apple came out with a MacPad, it would sell like mad. To say otherwise is to be arguing for no other reason than to argue.
The fact that you can use your finger and a stylus is brilliant. Having used a stylus for note taking, photo editing and drawing, there is simply no comparison to the detail you can achieve vs the soft tipped crap that is currently sold to tablet users. This is assuming Microsoft intends on implementing a Wacom style input - anything else will be a mistake. Couple that with full blown Photoshop, Office, PhotoMechanic, uTorrent (or the Mac equivelent), real file management(!) and (insert any desktop program that is more full featured than an app here) and you get a highly compelling peice of hardware.
One thing MS has to remember: If they want to move into tablet territory with a full blown desktop OS inside, they must include the things that make tablets so handy. I've heard rumors of these being WiFi only - huge mistake right off the bat, and one that Apple would not make. Another huge issue could be battery life.
I'm pretty excited at where Microsoft is headed with this. I have not been compelled to purchase a Mac yet - but if a MacPad (with touch and a true stylus - important to some of us) were to come out, I could not get my wallet out fast enough. The Surface Pro will work just fine for now, however.
Personally, I think the RT version will be a failure. The Pro version, however, is a different beast. You could instead ask this: What does your MacBook do better than an iPad, Android pad or other tablet. The answer is: almost everything.
The MacBook also doesn't try to shove a single-contact OS onto a multitouch device.
This means that there are quite a few people who do want something more akin to a full blown desktop in the palm of their hand. If Apple came out with a MacPad, it would sell like mad. To say otherwise is to be arguing for no other reason than to argue.
Or because we know that desktop OS' don't work in multitouch form.
I have not been compelled to purchase a Mac yet - but if a MacPad (with touch and a true stylus - important to some of us) were to come out, I could not get my wallet out fast enough.
I don't wish to suggest that Microsoft Surface is truly vapourware, but surely it's suspicious that it's announcing a product that no one's going to be able to buy for half a year.
One supposes that Microsoft intends to create a buzz and get us talking about their forthcoming (new) foray into tablet computers. Yet the problem with jumping the gun - apart from the 'false start' accusations that lead on from this metaphor - is that commentators are left with a void to fill. Lacking a physical product to test, all we can do is talk bollocks based on conjecture.
=-=-=-=-=
So how does the Surface tablet compare? It doesn't look ugly but I suspect it's going to be nut-crunchingly expensive: "About the same as an ultrabook," means a starting price of £1000. Hmm, should I buy a diddy Windows 8-only tablet that has a built-in stilt or buy a MacBook Air with proper memory spec, full-size f**k-off keyboard and trackpad and that will run just about any operating system I want?
How about editing photographs, editing movies (iMovie is pretty slick on iPad), drawing/painiting and otherwise creating art, writing/editing music, creating presentations, programming, website development, ...
This is where it gets murkey to me. Many people can meet their photo and video editing needs on an iPad. Of course, they have to jump through 100s of hoops to get the content on there in the first place. I'm not speaking of just getting RAW images off of a compact flash card - that something most people don't have to worry with. But my video camera shoots in ACVHD, and it's not even close to a pro level cam. I'm not saying the Surface Pro will handle it well, but it will at least handle it, and I won't have to preload the files elsewhere first. Still, video editing on an iPad is pretty darn good, but don't pretend it's not limited. Again, this is based on what you are trying to do. I tend to get into a lot more detail with my video edits than most consumers, but I'm no pro.
I've seen some amazing drawings/painting created on the iPad. However, I can get 10X the detail in 1/2 the time with a stylus. In order to get an accurate placement of a really fine line (on any of the apps I've tried) I have to 'spread' the image wider...and wider...and wider...until it is so large I can't even tell where I'm drawing anymore. A Wacom stylus isn't just an improvement, it the difference between a raindrop and an ocean. Yes you can draw on an iPad. A few people are very, very good (and patient) at it. They have spent countless hours perfecting work that could have been acheived in a fraction of the time with a stylus. Pen/paper - Paint/Canvas, both clearly superior to a finger based touch screen. Wacom Stylus is the closest thing to that.
These are the ones that hit closest to home to me, although I am a musician. I love jamming with the iRig, love creating with Garage Band. I haven't tried recording more than one/two part tracks on the iPad. iPad is not meant to replace a desktop recording solution, and in my opinion a laptop isn't either (not that I think you indicated that it was, btw)
Creating a presentation: really? It can absolutely be done. And it will absolutely take more time to get a polished custom presentation completed. Just because you can do it does not mean the device is really good for doing it on.
The iPad is great as a consumption device is it's present incarnation, but ranks poor for serious content creations. The Surface looks like it may improve upon the iPad in that area.
Also, the camera angle is great if you place the tablet on a desk. What about if it's not on a desk? You'd have to tilt it in a weird direction to line it up with your face while holding it.
Bingo! You just realized what all the "OMG KEEBORDE IS KOOL" crowd haven't:
It's not a tablet PC. It's a TABLE PC.
If you attempt to use it as a tablet... awk-waaaard.
I'd rather have two things that can do what each does best than one thing that can so everything less than half as good.
A camper is both a car and a home. There is a (niche) market for it, but not as much as for separate homes and separate cars, as a camper is a compromise that is neither good as a car, nor good as a home.
But sometimes the compromise wins. Microsoft Word is neither a very good editor, nor a very good typesetter. But the combination is good enough to have beaten combinations of separate typesetter (e.g. TeX) and editor that produce better results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatortpk
I still don't see iOS and OS X merging for quite a while. They are just good by themselves.
They don't need to merge, they are already merged and they are branches of a single tree (that started with NeXTSTEP).
If you want to use your screen it is easy. Turn the device upside down, use the flip keyboard on top, connect the HDMI. Can't be simplier than that.
And get limited by HDMI's 1920x1080 limitation. Might not seem a big deal, but it probably will be if you want to do serious desktop work that cannot be done on a tablet.
2002: Bill Gates introduces a new form factor for a mouse-keyboard UI
2007: Steve Jobs introduces multi-touch as a new UI paradigm
2010: Steve Jobs introduces a new form factor for the multi-touch UI
2012: Steve Ballmer introduces a mixture of mouse-keyboard-touch-with-stylus
Depending on your idea of what actually is the underlying innovation, the story changes. Besides, what about pre-Tablet PC computers like the Newton? The Tablet PC was another (failed) marriage: Newton form factor (albeit larger) and Windows UI.
The big innovation that made iPhone and iPad take off was multi-touch.
This is a "review" of a non-existent product, using a pre-production "poseur" model, and gushing lovingly about it as if it were the perfectly functioning hot model of the year, when… onstage… it wouldn't even run Internet Explorer…
Be real. Did it crash on you at all while using it? Did you actually run any applications? USE it like you would use it if you owned it? Not just oooh and ahhh at the finely fitting seams…?
I smell a paid PR article, yet again… is there ANYONE out there less disingenuous willing to write something "non partisan" about this device?
Because at this point, having watched the announcement video three times, I realized what a complete sham it was. They talked about it as if it "does" all this, when in truth it "will do" all that (if everything goes to plan)...
98% of the "demo" wasn't a demo, but talking about what it's designed to do and "will do"… we don't actually see the Surface DOING ANYTHING...
Compare to the keynote introducing the iPad. Where Steve lovingly kicks back with it and USES it, while the iPad screen is being beamed real-time and throughout to the large display above him, showing its every move… app after app leaping to the screen, doing incredible things we had only dreamed were possible up until then… dreams made real.
This 'presentation' sure ain't that… and it causes me to have serious doubts about the product itself.
Similar hype preceded the Kin and HP Tablet, as I recall… and an equally disingenuous array of gushing, paid PR pandering as well… yeah.
This is a "review" of a non-existent product, using a pre-production "poseur" model, and gushing lovingly about it as if it were the perfectly functioning hot model of the year, when… onstage… it wouldn't even run Internet Explorer…
Be real. Did it crash on you at all while using it? Did you actually run any applications? USE it like you would use it if you owned it? Not just oooh and ahhh at the finely fitting seams…?
I smell a paid PR article, yet again… is there ANYONE out there less disingenuous willing to write something "non partisan" about this device?
Because at this point, having watched the announcement video three times, I realized what a complete sham it was. They talked about it as if it "does" all this, when in truth it "will do" all that (if everything goes to plan)...
98% of the "demo" wasn't a demo, but talking about what it's designed to do and "will do"… we don't actually see the Surface DOING ANYTHING...
Compare to the keynote introducing the iPad. Where Steve lovingly kicks back with it and USES it, while the iPad screen is being beamed real-time and throughout to the large display above him, showing its every move… app after app leaping to the screen, doing incredible things we had only dreamed were possible up until then… dreams made real.
This 'presentation' sure ain't that… and it causes me to have serious doubts about the product itself.
Similar hype preceded the Kin and HP Tablet, as I recall… and an equally disingenuous array of gushing, paid PR pandering as well… yeah.
What do you think they should have demo'd that they didn't? They show the keyboard working, the kickstand, attaching the cover, the surface running windows 8, and the fact the touch screen works. What else do you want them to show.
It would be pointless doing a demo on the actual os, as it's been shown before, you can even download it and install on your own machine. Wanna see it running on a tablet, plenty of those around to.
What do you think they should have demo'd that they didn't? They show the keyboard working, the kickstand, attaching the cover, the surface running windows 8, and the fact the touch screen works. What else do you want them to show.
It would be pointless doing a demo on the actual os, as it's been shown before, you can even download it and install on your own machine. Wanna see it running on a tablet, plenty of those around to.
How about something that other people can actually use. Some real demo pads. Didn't happen... they might as well have been behind glass.
How about something that other people can actually use. Some real demo pads. Didn't happen... they might as well have been behind glass.
In what way couldn't these be used? They let people touch them and use them after the presentation. True peoples time was limited with them but given there's no need to demo the os as it's publicly available, I don't really get the issue.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredumb
I'm probably not the best tech historian, but, to be more comprehensive, shouldn't this tableau have started with a picture of someone introducing the Newton, four or five years earlier?
(Unless you feel Newton should only relate to PDA's, not "tablets"...?)
Newton started development around 1988.
The Tablet PC from Microsoft was an iMac with LCD instead of CRT. We may as well go back to Psion and Casio, or what about pen and paper. It is all just a natural progression.
Microsoft released a tablet that was a PC and useless in the market although was a bold move with a wrong vision. Apple released a completely new device, concept wise, and revolutionized tablet computing actually creating a whole new market. They did not try to be all things to all people or be compatible with their desktop offering. They also had a vision and got people to buy into the vision, the fruits of which we see today.
I hope Microsoft gets it right and it works for them. Windows is really the only alternative on a large scale to compete long term. If they get the vision right, they may get some traction. Lets see what happens once it is actually available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by icoco3
Microsoft released a tablet that was a PC and useless in the market although was a bold move with a wrong vision.
You shouldn't be so hard on MS's new "Surface"!
Personally, I think the RT version will be a failure. The Pro version, however, is a different beast. You could instead ask this: What does your MacBook do better than an iPad, Android pad or other tablet. The answer is: almost everything.
I'm an admitted PC user. I have had an iPad, and currently have an iPhone, but I try to be unbiased on these things. Mac OSX is great, and so are just about every other Apple product I've used. However, the biggest defense of the short comings of the iPad (which depends on your needs, I suppose) were always down played with "But it's not supposed to be a laptop replacement". I heard that thousands of times when the iPad came out. If we heard this so much, then clearly there are people who do want to replace their laptop with a tablet. But because the apps on the iPad and other tablet OS's are not as full featured as their OSX, Windows, and Linux counterparts, there was a lot of complaining. This means that there are quite a few people who do want something more akin to a full blown desktop in the palm of their hand. If Apple came out with a MacPad, it would sell like mad. To say otherwise is to be arguing for no other reason than to argue.
The fact that you can use your finger and a stylus is brilliant. Having used a stylus for note taking, photo editing and drawing, there is simply no comparison to the detail you can achieve vs the soft tipped crap that is currently sold to tablet users. This is assuming Microsoft intends on implementing a Wacom style input - anything else will be a mistake. Couple that with full blown Photoshop, Office, PhotoMechanic, uTorrent (or the Mac equivelent), real file management(!) and (insert any desktop program that is more full featured than an app here) and you get a highly compelling peice of hardware.
One thing MS has to remember: If they want to move into tablet territory with a full blown desktop OS inside, they must include the things that make tablets so handy. I've heard rumors of these being WiFi only - huge mistake right off the bat, and one that Apple would not make. Another huge issue could be battery life.
I'm pretty excited at where Microsoft is headed with this. I have not been compelled to purchase a Mac yet - but if a MacPad (with touch and a true stylus - important to some of us) were to come out, I could not get my wallet out fast enough. The Surface Pro will work just fine for now, however.
The MacBook also doesn't try to shove a single-contact OS onto a multitouch device.
Or because we know that desktop OS' don't work in multitouch form.
Go wild. You'll return it in a week.
Great little article...
Why I love Microsoft’s vapourware tablet
Quote:
I don't wish to suggest that Microsoft Surface is truly vapourware, but surely it's suspicious that it's announcing a product that no one's going to be able to buy for half a year.
One supposes that Microsoft intends to create a buzz and get us talking about their forthcoming (new) foray into tablet computers. Yet the problem with jumping the gun - apart from the 'false start' accusations that lead on from this metaphor - is that commentators are left with a void to fill. Lacking a physical product to test, all we can do is talk bollocks based on conjecture.
=-=-=-=-=
So how does the Surface tablet compare? It doesn't look ugly but I suspect it's going to be nut-crunchingly expensive: "About the same as an ultrabook," means a starting price of £1000. Hmm, should I buy a diddy Windows 8-only tablet that has a built-in stilt or buy a MacBook Air with proper memory spec, full-size f**k-off keyboard and trackpad and that will run just about any operating system I want?
Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams
You shouldn't be so hard on MS's new "Surface"!
Not being hard...my comment was referencing the 2002 tablet....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater
How about editing photographs, editing movies (iMovie is pretty slick on iPad), drawing/painiting and otherwise creating art, writing/editing music, creating presentations, programming, website development, ...
This is where it gets murkey to me. Many people can meet their photo and video editing needs on an iPad. Of course, they have to jump through 100s of hoops to get the content on there in the first place. I'm not speaking of just getting RAW images off of a compact flash card - that something most people don't have to worry with. But my video camera shoots in ACVHD, and it's not even close to a pro level cam. I'm not saying the Surface Pro will handle it well, but it will at least handle it, and I won't have to preload the files elsewhere first. Still, video editing on an iPad is pretty darn good, but don't pretend it's not limited. Again, this is based on what you are trying to do. I tend to get into a lot more detail with my video edits than most consumers, but I'm no pro.
I've seen some amazing drawings/painting created on the iPad. However, I can get 10X the detail in 1/2 the time with a stylus. In order to get an accurate placement of a really fine line (on any of the apps I've tried) I have to 'spread' the image wider...and wider...and wider...until it is so large I can't even tell where I'm drawing anymore. A Wacom stylus isn't just an improvement, it the difference between a raindrop and an ocean. Yes you can draw on an iPad. A few people are very, very good (and patient) at it. They have spent countless hours perfecting work that could have been acheived in a fraction of the time with a stylus. Pen/paper - Paint/Canvas, both clearly superior to a finger based touch screen. Wacom Stylus is the closest thing to that.
These are the ones that hit closest to home to me, although I am a musician. I love jamming with the iRig, love creating with Garage Band. I haven't tried recording more than one/two part tracks on the iPad. iPad is not meant to replace a desktop recording solution, and in my opinion a laptop isn't either (not that I think you indicated that it was, btw)
Creating a presentation: really? It can absolutely be done. And it will absolutely take more time to get a polished custom presentation completed. Just because you can do it does not mean the device is really good for doing it on.
The iPad is great as a consumption device is it's present incarnation, but ranks poor for serious content creations. The Surface looks like it may improve upon the iPad in that area.
Can use it on a lap:
http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/tablets/microsoft-surface-tablet-1085839/review
Quote:
Originally Posted by storneo
Also, the camera angle is great if you place the tablet on a desk. What about if it's not on a desk? You'd have to tilt it in a weird direction to line it up with your face while holding it.
Bingo! You just realized what all the "OMG KEEBORDE IS KOOL" crowd haven't:
It's not a tablet PC. It's a TABLE PC.
If you attempt to use it as a tablet... awk-waaaard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatortpk
I'd rather have two things that can do what each does best than one thing that can so everything less than half as good.
A camper is both a car and a home. There is a (niche) market for it, but not as much as for separate homes and separate cars, as a camper is a compromise that is neither good as a car, nor good as a home.
But sometimes the compromise wins. Microsoft Word is neither a very good editor, nor a very good typesetter. But the combination is good enough to have beaten combinations of separate typesetter (e.g. TeX) and editor that produce better results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatortpk
I still don't see iOS and OS X merging for quite a while. They are just good by themselves.
They don't need to merge, they are already merged and they are branches of a single tree (that started with NeXTSTEP).
Quote:
Originally Posted by serializer
If you want to use your screen it is easy. Turn the device upside down, use the flip keyboard on top, connect the HDMI. Can't be simplier than that.
And get limited by HDMI's 1920x1080 limitation. Might not seem a big deal, but it probably will be if you want to do serious desktop work that cannot be done on a tablet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotApple
Now who's copying who?
If you say:
2002: Bill Gates introduces a new form factor for a mouse-keyboard UI
2007: Steve Jobs introduces multi-touch as a new UI paradigm
2010: Steve Jobs introduces a new form factor for the multi-touch UI
2012: Steve Ballmer introduces a mixture of mouse-keyboard-touch-with-stylus
Depending on your idea of what actually is the underlying innovation, the story changes. Besides, what about pre-Tablet PC computers like the Newton? The Tablet PC was another (failed) marriage: Newton form factor (albeit larger) and Windows UI.
The big innovation that made iPhone and iPad take off was multi-touch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateKylie
Can use it on a lap:
http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/tablets/microsoft-surface-tablet-1085839/review
Correction: can POSE WITH IT on a lap.
This is a "review" of a non-existent product, using a pre-production "poseur" model, and gushing lovingly about it as if it were the perfectly functioning hot model of the year, when… onstage… it wouldn't even run Internet Explorer…
Be real. Did it crash on you at all while using it? Did you actually run any applications? USE it like you would use it if you owned it? Not just oooh and ahhh at the finely fitting seams…?
I smell a paid PR article, yet again… is there ANYONE out there less disingenuous willing to write something "non partisan" about this device?
Because at this point, having watched the announcement video three times, I realized what a complete sham it was. They talked about it as if it "does" all this, when in truth it "will do" all that (if everything goes to plan)...
98% of the "demo" wasn't a demo, but talking about what it's designed to do and "will do"… we don't actually see the Surface DOING ANYTHING...
Compare to the keynote introducing the iPad. Where Steve lovingly kicks back with it and USES it, while the iPad screen is being beamed real-time and throughout to the large display above him, showing its every move… app after app leaping to the screen, doing incredible things we had only dreamed were possible up until then… dreams made real.
This 'presentation' sure ain't that… and it causes me to have serious doubts about the product itself.
Similar hype preceded the Kin and HP Tablet, as I recall… and an equally disingenuous array of gushing, paid PR pandering as well… yeah.
I assume we've seen this? It's fantastic. Surface Fail.
Indeed. We all enjoyed (or some folks cringed) back here. Fun to watch again though!
The wise Macalope at MacWorld said something a long time ago that seems as fresh and appropriate today as it did back then...
Quote:
It’s amazing how future Microsoft products beat current Apple products time and time again, isn’t it?
It would be pointless doing a demo on the actual os, as it's been shown before, you can even download it and install on your own machine. Wanna see it running on a tablet, plenty of those around to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84
What do you think they should have demo'd that they didn't? They show the keyboard working, the kickstand, attaching the cover, the surface running windows 8, and the fact the touch screen works. What else do you want them to show.
It would be pointless doing a demo on the actual os, as it's been shown before, you can even download it and install on your own machine. Wanna see it running on a tablet, plenty of those around to.
How about something that other people can actually use. Some real demo pads. Didn't happen... they might as well have been behind glass.
That looks pretty awesome!!!