Who the heck cares about NFC besides tech-heads and fandroids? In all my travels, I have yet to come across anything that would use it? I see no merchants, stores, vending machines, etc. that has it.
Oh wait, it's only a huge deal to those that simply want it for the sake of having it and having "bragging rights". Jeez.. when there's stuff out there that uses it, then Apple will look into it.
Well, that's the whole chicken and the egg problem. If there aren't any devices out there supporting NFC why would vendors bother to incur the costs of upgrading to use NFC payment methods? If Apple would have added it, it could have have really pushed adoption forward since vendors could easily expect millions of NFC ready devices to be in use in a very short order.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Of course there's an advantage - buzzword compliance. For most of the geeks asking for this, they won't be happy until they can carry around a mobile phone that has a 10" screen and 8,000 other features no one else will use.
As for the rest, I don't see the convenience factor as being significant. It takes perhaps half a second to plug my iPhone in - and even less if I use an iPhone charging dock. It takes me many times that amountin order to get my Wii controllers aligned with the inductive charging station.
My Palm Pre 2 had inductive charging and it was a really cool feature. Just take a second to put the the phone on the Touchstone charger and you were done. And if you're like me and you use your phone at work as a music player, you needn't worry about ripping cords out of the wall if you forgot about the phone when you moved. It would just come off the charger and you could recover from there. And it seemed just as fast if not faster than corded charging.
Who the heck cares about NFC besides tech-heads and fandroids? In all my travels, I have yet to come across anything that would use it? I see no merchants, stores, vending machines, etc. that has it.
Oh wait, it's only a huge deal to those that simply want it for the sake of having it and having "bragging rights". Jeez.. when there's stuff out there that uses it, then Apple will look into it.
I've never seen a McDonald's with NFC. Are you thinking of RFID pads? If so, those aren't NFC and one would be very ignorant indeed to confuse the two.
First comment was how thin the phone is, who cares, it's not a benefit. Make it 1/16 thicker and leave the connector alone, and add battery life, now there's a benefit, not some feature that is of no use.
Why is it that people confuse "I want" with "everyone wants"?
For some people, a thinner phone IS a benefit. And many people are quite happy with the 4S battery life - and the 5 is supposed to be even better.
Yes. Have you used the iPad dock yet? Aligning it with the connector is a PAIN (not to mention that it doesn't work with the Smart Case on and connecting through the Smart Case is another PITA). An inductive charger and accessories with their own USB ports would address both of these issues..
I really can't help it if you're too clumsy to insert an iPad into the dock. Furthermore, the newer connector should be even easier to use than the old 30 pin connector, so your argument goes away.
As I said - my experience is that aligning my Wii controllers with the inductive charging stand takes a LOT longer than simply plugging in my iPhone. And that's before you even consider the massive amounts of energy wasted by inductive charging.
People who are saying they didn't want NFC clearly don't have a clue what possibilities NFC brings. It could allow you to completely get rid of your wallet and pay for everything with your phone. Had Apple implemented it, retailers would have been on board, and all this would have happened within a year. This puts electronic payment back a number of years and puts all the power in Google's hands.
Not including NFC and pushing this technology was a big mistake on Apple's part. Their passbook idea is far too niche and will not take off.
How about something like this?
You've finished your meal in a restaurant. The serving bod comes over with one of those dinky 7-inch iPads. He enters the amount and takes a picture of the QR code on your phone. You leave the restaurant.
I've never seen a McDonald's with NFC. Are you thinking of RFID pads? If so, those aren't NFC and one would be very ignorant indeed to confuse the two.
I have used it many times.with nfc. They are compatible
I have used it many times.with nfc. They are compatible
Really? Where are these McDonald's located. What is the name of the system they use? What is the name of the system you use? What does RFID backwards compatibility have to do with anything if you swear it's not the old hat RFID tech but using an NFC enabled device on your end to communicate to an NFC enabled device on the other end?
You'll need to prove that McDonald's in the US are using NFC and that you using NFC on your end. ExpressPay, PayPass and payWave are not NFC.
Really? Where are these McDonald's located. What is the name of the system they use? What is the name of the system you use? What does RFID backwards compatibility have to do with anything if you swear it's not the old hat RFID tech but using an NFC enabled device on your end to communicate to an NFC enabled device on the other end?
You'll need to prove that McDonald's in the US are using NFC and that you using NFC on your end. ExpressPay, PayPass and payWave are not NFC.
Yes. Have you used the iPad dock yet? Aligning it with the connector is a PAIN (not to mention that it doesn't work with the Smart Case on and connecting through the Smart Case is another PITA). An inductive charger and accessories with their own USB ports would address both of these issues..
I really can't help it if you're too clumsy to insert an iPad into the dock. Furthermore, the newer connector should be even easier to use than the old 30 pin connector, so your argument goes away.
As I said - my experience is that aligning my Wii controllers with the inductive charging stand takes a LOT longer than simply plugging in my iPhone. And that's before you even consider the massive amounts of energy wasted by inductive charging.
For starters, with that comment I really doubt you've ever used an iPad dock since those docks are way smaller than the iPad; you can't just drop the iPad on them with one hand, especially without looking since it has to be perfectly centered, and you need to hold the iPad from the bottom because inserting it there requires a specific tilt (letting it rest on the stand doesn't work, at least on the third-generation iPad, which is slightly thicker). Secondly, even if I was clumsy, your remark would actually be validating my point, because my supposed clumsiness wouldn't be an issue with inductive charging, so you're kinda defeating yourself by pointing out a usability issue. Third, I have to wonder how an even smaller and narrower connector would be easier to use in this situation. An inductive charger, however, would have none of these usability issues, and being clumsy with one would, again, not be a problem.
Lastly, inductive charging alignment problems can be addressed using magnets on flat surfaces, and the power conscious like you could take advantage of the external conductors which would be perfectly aligned with the devices' docks, bumpers, or cases that I suggested earlier. Apple themselves have patented inductive charging technology, hinting at plans to implement it in the future, so you should take their current official stance on the matter as bullshit.
Lastly, inductive charging alignment problems can be addressed using magnets on flat surfaces, and the power conscious like you could take advantage of the external conductors which would be perfectly aligned with the devices' docks, bumpers, or cases that I suggested earlier. Apple themselves have patented inductive charging technology, hinting at plans to implement it in the future, so you should take their current official stance on the matter as bullshit.
Where's the spirit of innovation?
I'd prefer innovation where it matters.
If you use metal contacts, it's really not significantly different than plugging in a cable - other than requiring extra bulk (magnets, etc) that add no value. If you use true inductive charging, then you create waste - and the same increase in bulk.
Pluggin in a cable require such an insignificant amount of time that I'd rather not have them adding bulk to the phone to satisfy the people complaining about the 0.2 seconds it takes to plug your phone in at night.
And where is that? Is a touch-screen innovation where it really matters? Is the ability to run apps on your phone innovation where it really matters? Who defines what matters? And why would the ability to easily charge a phone in public places not matter?
If you use metal contacts, it's really not significantly different than plugging in a cable - other than requiring extra bulk (magnets, etc) that add no value. If you use true inductive charging, then you create waste - and the same increase in bulk.
Technically, metal conductors would achieve the same as a connector (which is the point, no drawbacks), however from a usability perspective (which is where Apple is supposed to be strong) they would be a huge improvement since they'd be able to get rid of the connector port altogether and stuff would be much easier to plug. My suggestion was to use both, though: inductive charging where metal connectors would be inappropriate (charging in public places) and metal conductors where inductive charging would be inappropriate (charging from USB or docks plugged to wall sockets).
Pluggin in a cable require such an insignificant amount of time that I'd rather not have them adding bulk to the phone to satisfy the people complaining about the 0.2 seconds it takes to plug your phone in at night.
Actually my main complaint is about them having removed the 30-pin connector, which had a lot of functionality that is currently not being replicated by the 9-pin connector. The new connector was a huge compromise with very little in terms of advantage. Ironically, one of its "advantages" is being easier to connect, something you don't seem to care about. While the 30-pin connector made sense to exist for all the functionality that it provided, this one does not since pretty much everything can be done through Wi-Fi these days and there are more elegant solutions for power. That's the kind of innovation that I would accept as well as the kind of thing the average person would be drooling over.
Apple just missed the chance to define the NFC standard. Apple is playing hard to not let its followers to have the NFC and inductive charging because people will say Apple is becoming a follower instead of an innovator which is sadly becoming true after SJ...
I can't commit to parking meters, but there are only a few payment terminal manufacturers in the world. All of them are selling NFC-equipped terminals like gangbusters.
Anyway, I don't know why you have a problem with NFC, but I'm sure it's because you don't understand why traditional credit cards need to go. Read the post from VicAustin a few above. NFC transactions are exactly the same as smartcard transactions, which have been proven over the last 15 years. They can be managed in many ways. In situations where the transaction is directly between the bank and the vendor, there is not customarily a transaction fee.
Originally Posted by Hutcho
Not including NFC and pushing this technology was a big mistake on Apple's part. Their passbook idea is far too niche and will not take off.
Passbook is a failure waiting to happen. I suspect the main reason why there's no NFC is because Apple didn't finish their product in time.
Don't get me wrong, I like NFC. But with the current installed infrastructure, i don't know if now is the right time for Apple to jump into the game. Any failure due to infrastructure problems would be seen as an Apple failure. Why risk your reputation now, when later you can make a real difference. I think it's very much about the timing.
It only lost Firewire, component video, composite video, two analog audio channels, HDMI, and RS-232 without actually adding any new features
I must have missed the dedicated HDMI pins in the old dock's schematic. As for Firewire, 2nd gen iPods are already limited on accessory compatibility. Analog video? Stick with devices made in the same decade. Was the old dock useless for not having dedicated horizontal and vertical sync pins? How am I supposed to use it with this Soviet-era projector??
The 30 pin dock connector had several multi-function pins, configuring themselves internally based on accessory voltage/ohm output. I will safely assume this brand new connector can do the same, if not more. That obviously means HDMI, being digital and all. Don't discount the possibility of audio line out until you see a spec sheet.
I must have missed the dedicated HDMI pins in the old dock's schematic. As for Firewire, 2nd gen iPods are already limited on accessory compatibility. Analog video? Stick with devices made in the same decade. Was the old dock useless for not having dedicated horizontal and vertical sync pins? How am I supposed to use it with this Soviet-era projector??
The 30 pin dock connector had several multi-function pins, configuring themselves internally based on accessory voltage/ohm output. I will safely assume this brand new connector can do the same, if not more. That obviously means HDMI, being digital and all. Don't discount the possibility of audio line out until you see a spec sheet.
Apple has confirmed that the new connector will not support video out. You have two options: Airplay or Apple TV.
...and in case you're hopeful the Lightning-to-30-pin-adapter/cable might solve that if it's a problem for you, Apple says video-out won't be supported there either.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal
Who the heck cares about NFC besides tech-heads and fandroids? In all my travels, I have yet to come across anything that would use it? I see no merchants, stores, vending machines, etc. that has it.
Oh wait, it's only a huge deal to those that simply want it for the sake of having it and having "bragging rights". Jeez.. when there's stuff out there that uses it, then Apple will look into it.
Well, that's the whole chicken and the egg problem. If there aren't any devices out there supporting NFC why would vendors bother to incur the costs of upgrading to use NFC payment methods? If Apple would have added it, it could have have really pushed adoption forward since vendors could easily expect millions of NFC ready devices to be in use in a very short order.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Of course there's an advantage - buzzword compliance. For most of the geeks asking for this, they won't be happy until they can carry around a mobile phone that has a 10" screen and 8,000 other features no one else will use.
As for the rest, I don't see the convenience factor as being significant. It takes perhaps half a second to plug my iPhone in - and even less if I use an iPhone charging dock. It takes me many times that amountin order to get my Wii controllers aligned with the inductive charging station.
My Palm Pre 2 had inductive charging and it was a really cool feature. Just take a second to put the the phone on the Touchstone charger and you were done. And if you're like me and you use your phone at work as a music player, you needn't worry about ripping cords out of the wall if you forgot about the phone when you moved. It would just come off the charger and you could recover from there. And it seemed just as fast if not faster than corded charging.
I've never seen a McDonald's with NFC. Are you thinking of RFID pads? If so, those aren't NFC and one would be very ignorant indeed to confuse the two.
Why is it that people confuse "I want" with "everyone wants"?
For some people, a thinner phone IS a benefit. And many people are quite happy with the 4S battery life - and the 5 is supposed to be even better.
I really can't help it if you're too clumsy to insert an iPad into the dock. Furthermore, the newer connector should be even easier to use than the old 30 pin connector, so your argument goes away.
As I said - my experience is that aligning my Wii controllers with the inductive charging stand takes a LOT longer than simply plugging in my iPhone. And that's before you even consider the massive amounts of energy wasted by inductive charging.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutcho
People who are saying they didn't want NFC clearly don't have a clue what possibilities NFC brings. It could allow you to completely get rid of your wallet and pay for everything with your phone. Had Apple implemented it, retailers would have been on board, and all this would have happened within a year. This puts electronic payment back a number of years and puts all the power in Google's hands.
Not including NFC and pushing this technology was a big mistake on Apple's part. Their passbook idea is far too niche and will not take off.
How about something like this?
You've finished your meal in a restaurant. The serving bod comes over with one of those dinky 7-inch iPads. He enters the amount and takes a picture of the QR code on your phone. You leave the restaurant.
Not sure how to handle tips though ... :-(
Really? Where are these McDonald's located. What is the name of the system they use? What is the name of the system you use? What does RFID backwards compatibility have to do with anything if you swear it's not the old hat RFID tech but using an NFC enabled device on your end to communicate to an NFC enabled device on the other end?
You'll need to prove that McDonald's in the US are using NFC and that you using NFC on your end. ExpressPay, PayPass and payWave are not NFC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Really? Where are these McDonald's located. What is the name of the system they use? What is the name of the system you use? What does RFID backwards compatibility have to do with anything if you swear it's not the old hat RFID tech but using an NFC enabled device on your end to communicate to an NFC enabled device on the other end?
You'll need to prove that McDonald's in the US are using NFC and that you using NFC on your end. ExpressPay, PayPass and payWave are not NFC.
Have you tried Googling 'McDonalds using NFC'?
Those results show stories covering small scale tests in various countries, not wide roll-outs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Those results show stories covering small scale tests in various countries, not wide roll-outs.
True enough.
For starters, with that comment I really doubt you've ever used an iPad dock since those docks are way smaller than the iPad; you can't just drop the iPad on them with one hand, especially without looking since it has to be perfectly centered, and you need to hold the iPad from the bottom because inserting it there requires a specific tilt (letting it rest on the stand doesn't work, at least on the third-generation iPad, which is slightly thicker). Secondly, even if I was clumsy, your remark would actually be validating my point, because my supposed clumsiness wouldn't be an issue with inductive charging, so you're kinda defeating yourself by pointing out a usability issue. Third, I have to wonder how an even smaller and narrower connector would be easier to use in this situation. An inductive charger, however, would have none of these usability issues, and being clumsy with one would, again, not be a problem.
Lastly, inductive charging alignment problems can be addressed using magnets on flat surfaces, and the power conscious like you could take advantage of the external conductors which would be perfectly aligned with the devices' docks, bumpers, or cases that I suggested earlier. Apple themselves have patented inductive charging technology, hinting at plans to implement it in the future, so you should take their current official stance on the matter as bullshit.
Where's the spirit of innovation?
I'd prefer innovation where it matters.
If you use metal contacts, it's really not significantly different than plugging in a cable - other than requiring extra bulk (magnets, etc) that add no value. If you use true inductive charging, then you create waste - and the same increase in bulk.
Pluggin in a cable require such an insignificant amount of time that I'd rather not have them adding bulk to the phone to satisfy the people complaining about the 0.2 seconds it takes to plug your phone in at night.
And where is that? Is a touch-screen innovation where it really matters? Is the ability to run apps on your phone innovation where it really matters? Who defines what matters? And why would the ability to easily charge a phone in public places not matter?
Technically, metal conductors would achieve the same as a connector (which is the point, no drawbacks), however from a usability perspective (which is where Apple is supposed to be strong) they would be a huge improvement since they'd be able to get rid of the connector port altogether and stuff would be much easier to plug. My suggestion was to use both, though: inductive charging where metal connectors would be inappropriate (charging in public places) and metal conductors where inductive charging would be inappropriate (charging from USB or docks plugged to wall sockets).
Actually my main complaint is about them having removed the 30-pin connector, which had a lot of functionality that is currently not being replicated by the 9-pin connector. The new connector was a huge compromise with very little in terms of advantage. Ironically, one of its "advantages" is being easier to connect, something you don't seem to care about. While the 30-pin connector made sense to exist for all the functionality that it provided, this one does not since pretty much everything can be done through Wi-Fi these days and there are more elegant solutions for power. That's the kind of innovation that I would accept as well as the kind of thing the average person would be drooling over.
Apple just missed the chance to define the NFC standard. Apple is playing hard to not let its followers to have the NFC and inductive charging because people will say Apple is becoming a follower instead of an innovator which is sadly becoming true after SJ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel
I can't commit to parking meters, but there are only a few payment terminal manufacturers in the world. All of them are selling NFC-equipped terminals like gangbusters.
Anyway, I don't know why you have a problem with NFC, but I'm sure it's because you don't understand why traditional credit cards need to go. Read the post from VicAustin a few above. NFC transactions are exactly the same as smartcard transactions, which have been proven over the last 15 years. They can be managed in many ways. In situations where the transaction is directly between the bank and the vendor, there is not customarily a transaction fee.
Originally Posted by Hutcho
Not including NFC and pushing this technology was a big mistake on Apple's part. Their passbook idea is far too niche and will not take off.
Passbook is a failure waiting to happen. I suspect the main reason why there's no NFC is because Apple didn't finish their product in time.
Don't get me wrong, I like NFC. But with the current installed infrastructure, i don't know if now is the right time for Apple to jump into the game. Any failure due to infrastructure problems would be seen as an Apple failure. Why risk your reputation now, when later you can make a real difference. I think it's very much about the timing.
Vaelian
It only lost Firewire, component video, composite video, two analog audio channels, HDMI, and RS-232 without actually adding any new features
I must have missed the dedicated HDMI pins in the old dock's schematic. As for Firewire, 2nd gen iPods are already limited on accessory compatibility. Analog video? Stick with devices made in the same decade. Was the old dock useless for not having dedicated horizontal and vertical sync pins? How am I supposed to use it with this Soviet-era projector??
The 30 pin dock connector had several multi-function pins, configuring themselves internally based on accessory voltage/ohm output. I will safely assume this brand new connector can do the same, if not more. That obviously means HDMI, being digital and all. Don't discount the possibility of audio line out until you see a spec sheet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorsos
I must have missed the dedicated HDMI pins in the old dock's schematic. As for Firewire, 2nd gen iPods are already limited on accessory compatibility. Analog video? Stick with devices made in the same decade. Was the old dock useless for not having dedicated horizontal and vertical sync pins? How am I supposed to use it with this Soviet-era projector??
The 30 pin dock connector had several multi-function pins, configuring themselves internally based on accessory voltage/ohm output. I will safely assume this brand new connector can do the same, if not more. That obviously means HDMI, being digital and all. Don't discount the possibility of audio line out until you see a spec sheet.
Apple has confirmed that the new connector will not support video out. You have two options: Airplay or Apple TV.
http://www.imore.com/lightning-connector-drops-video-out-support-wants-you-use-airplay-and-apple-tv
...and in case you're hopeful the Lightning-to-30-pin-adapter/cable might solve that if it's a problem for you, Apple says video-out won't be supported there either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
I wonder why Greenpeace has not said anything about companies using this wasteful technology.
If everything we charged was switched to it, we'd have to dig up a lot more coal.
Or we could just invest more in renewable energy sources like solar and wind. I mean if we ever run out of solar energy we're all pretty screwed.