They make no sense to you because you're confusing cause and effect, which is an informal logic fallacy. I became a developer because I bought an iPhone, not the other way around; and I bought an iPhone specifically because of Google Maps. I'm a geek, that shit happens, I buy tech and feel the need to tinker with it, there isn't much else to read into.
Well, no. I simply accepted your statements as if they were true. That clearly was a mistake.
You said that the only thing you use a smartphone for is maps. Then you later said that you are an iOS developer (which presumably means that you use your phone at least for testing your own apps).
The two statements are not consistent.
Except the latter wouldn't have happened without the former, and if I am rendered unable to use GPS on my phone, I will lose interest in developing for it, too. Is it that hard to comprehend?
You don't have to "buy into" anything I say because I've already defeated the whole argument earlier. Even if I was lying...
I think the only argument defeated here is yours, which has gone down in spectacular flames, after you lost track of what you had said, then waved your hands frantically to distract from your self-contradictory nonsense. And, shouldn't that be, "Even if I were lying..." if you haven't been? Oh, I get it.
You get what? That I don't care whether you believe me or not? That's true, I don't, because it's not relevant to the debate. Don't try kindergarten psychology on an emotionally detached person, I'm not motivated by the same things normal people are.
And to think I was being called irrational earlier...
Ok, someone @ Apple made a bad decision (probably with TC's approval). So what. iphone5 still sells more than 4s in the first weekend. people still upgrading to iOS6. There was no effect as having a bad map app. Yes, people whine about it. But that doesn't affect anything. Come on, people will buy any phone Apple puts out regardless of what's on there. This proves the case.
I agree with most of what you say. Apple did certainly screw up the quality of the 1.0 iOS 6 maps release.
I am not so sure, though, that Apple made a bad decision... given the alternatives! The implementation and the decision are two different things.
It's not the media. It's us, Apple users. I'll be very happy to switch to IOS Maps, because Apple products are always higher quality than the competitors, but I'll do it when it's ready. In the meantime, don't force us to travel back in time losing the features we were used to, specially when you could very easily keep Google Maps while you were polishing IOS Maps. On every forums I visit, I don't see the media over-dramatizing, I just see Apple users who disagree with recent Apple policies.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying the maps app is free of issues. Now, I haven't read the other posts you've made, but this post of yours here is NOT over-dramatizing. You seem to be a sensible user who is opting to wait until the maps are to your liking to upgrade. What I was referring to were the rants and posts I've seen from various media outlets and users who are calling a product a disaster and threatening to dump everything Apple because a 3D image of a bridge in their town is drawn poorly, or an icon is missing. from a "known" local coffee shop. These items will undoubtedly get fixed, but I truly wonder what percentage of people are honestly affected by the maps' problems. It's like the Malware issue on Android. Media gets a hold of it, next thing you know there's a perception out there that if you use Android and you download apps, you will get a rogue app installed and all your personal data will be stolen.
Ok, someone @ Apple made a bad decision (probably with TC's approval). So what. iphone5 still sells more than 4s in the first weekend. people still upgrading to iOS6. There was no effect as having a bad map app. Yes, people whine about it. But that doesn't affect anything. Come on, people will buy any phone Apple puts out regardless of what's on there. This proves the case.
I disagree. People will buy ANY phone if it best suits their needs (even if the need is simply a vain one). I am sure if someone needs a rock solid reliable map app on their phone and cannot wait till the Apple maps catches up, they wont buy an iPhone, they'll go Android or Windows. You know, It IS possible that for many of the the 100+ million people who bought the 5 or upgraded to iOS6, all these maps issues are not a deal breaker.
You get what? That I don't care whether you believe me or not? That's true, I don't, because it's not relevant to the debate. Don't try kindergarten psychology on an emotionally detached person, I'm not motivated by the same things normal people are.
And to think I was being called irrational earlier...
I disagree. People will buy ANY phone if it best suits their needs (even if the need is simply a vain one).
Except, apparently, Vaelian. He says that maps were the only reason he uses a smartphone - yet he intentionally bought an iPhone even though Google Maps on Android is better.
Except the latter wouldn't have happened without the former, and if I am rendered unable to use GPS on my phone, I will lose interest in developing for it, too. Is it that hard to comprehend?
It would be easier to comprehend if your story made any sense.
For example:
1. Apple released a new mapping program on iOS 6. You are still using iOS 5.1.1, so it doesn't affect you. So why are you whining so much?
2. Google's Maps app is known to be better on Android than on iOS (for intentional reasons on Google's part, obviously). You stated that maps are the only reason you use a smart phone - yet you chose an iPhone. That doesn't make sense.
3. You stated that maps are the only reason you use a smart phone and then later admitted that you're a developer. Either you're an iOS developer who never tests his apps or you're lying. Which is it?
For starters, I asked for a citation (you're replying with speculation, which I can do, too), and secondly Apple isn't gathering or processing that data, they're displaying it to users in a convenient way, just like Google does through the browser. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Google would charge Apple for a service that they provide for free, quite the opposite actually, as Google regards users as assets to their advertisement core business, rather than clients.
Citation?
I am providing you something better than a citation or speculation. It is experience.
I've noticed you said you became a developer when you got an iPhone. Interesting seeing as I had been a developer for 5 years in 2007 and had worked on GIS software for 4 of those 5 years.
You pay a fee to Apple of about $100 a year, and that is because Apple gives you access to third-party services and data that Apple is paying others for. Very little is free in the software development world beyond compilers and the IDE (Xcode, Eclipse, etc). That is because many people are selling what they produce and everyone wants a piece of the pie. That isn't speculation, that is reality. Sure, you made find a free component or block of code here and there, but iOS was not copy and pasted together from free code found on the Internet.
The company I work for has to pay several companies for GIS data, demographic data, and third-party API tools. We have to pay Microsoft for Bing Maps, and based on the way we use that, we'd have to pay Google too. And we pay A LOT. We also pay Google for Google Apps for Business so we can using Gmail and Google Docs as a company. So Google charges for plenty, believe it or not.
You can believe Apple wasn't paying Google, but you are wrong.
- Turn by turn navigation with realistic human voice! *
*Feature requires actual human being that can read a map in passenger seat.
- Out of date before printing
- Limited by the DPI capabilities of the printer
- Watch out for snakes (who said that?!)
- No updates available
- Ruined when wet (so… just like a digital source)
- Just look and feel, though?
Thing about a paper map is that roads will be under construction for centuries to come.
But you make an interesting point; I think that paper map suppliers would have been better served to advertise against any perceived failure of digital ones than Apple's actual competitors.
- Out of date before printing
- Limited by the DPI capabilities of the printer
- Watch out for snakes (who said that?!)
- No updates available
- Ruined when wet (so… just like a digital source)
- Just look and feel, though?
Thing about a paper map is that roads will be under construction for centuries to come.
But you make an interesting point; I think that paper map suppliers would have been better served to advertise against any perceived failure of digital ones than Apple's actual competitors.
I used to buy it yearly. It really only shows major roads, so whenever I drove I would use it to get to whatever city/town I was visiting then I'd buy a local more detailed map at a 7 11 or Walmart.
I really don't understand why this gets so much attention.
Its one stinking application. To me its like meeting the most amazing, intelligent, beautiful woman in the world, but constantly complaining about some minor thing "but dude, she doesn't understand football.. I don't think this is gonna last"
Get over it. Give it time, it will fix itself.
How incredibly sexist of you. Next time try cars.
But OK, using your analogy, perhaps it's more like, every time she opens her mouth she says something factually incorrect. "Black is white", etc. So she's either lying or ignorant. And while incredibly intelligent, she's arrogant about it. Never mind she doesn't understand football. The idea that she doesn't care to learn is enough to sour any relationship. Apple could have offered a choice of downloading Google Maps while on the remaining year of their license, while placing their incomplete version on the Home screen for all the users to use who have no problem with Apple Maps ... And according to you and numerous others on this forum, that's the majority of the users -- the only people complaining are the smallest of vocal minorities.
If you and others really believe that, then why did Apple make a public apology? They didn't capitulate so quickly over "antennagate". And the solution there ... to keep using your analogy, was to dress the beauty up inside a thick wool trench coat. And if you truly believe this is no big deal, then why doesn't Apple just offer the choice now? If Apple's Maps is so much better than Google's then only a small percentage of users will want to download it after being forced to try Apple's, right? And it's not like Apple terminated their license, they just didn't take advantage of it, so they are seemingly in a position to do just that.
But too late now. It's now a pissing contest and (using your analogy) Apple is saying, our girlfriend is better than yours, so no way we're taking her back after what she did to us.
I did have better things to do, and I went and did them. I didn't go around having a hissy-fit that a man-made product wasn't perfect. I accepted it's shortcomings as a first-release and moved on knowing in time it will get better. Surely, my tune would change if I were paying for a service or a product and it was faulty. This is not the case. With Apple's resources and design-mantra, I see Maps rivaling GoogleMaps, if not surpassing it, sooner than later. I look at the big picture, so should you. But no, you focus on the "now, now, now" and "I want my 5-minute fix" nonsense.
You beat me to it Charli. Everyone I know that upgraded to iOS6 only had a smattering of curiosities about Apple's maps. They didn't care. They too exhibited the same philosophy that it will get better over time and went on with their lives.
Unlike souliisoul which seems to be exhibiting the typical iHating, trolling mentality. He'd rather mouth-off than actually have a rational, grown-up discussion. I find a lot of that mentality infesting AI now.
If you are that stupid or naive to think that the cost of Maps development has not been included in setting the iPhone price, i.e., every year Apple provide certain 'free apps', which they have determined will cost this much to develop and included that in their overall R&D costs, then you more stupid, then I think. Apple will revise the price, if they thought that R&D costs had increased, but you still pay for apps as part of iPhone R&D costs.
Even Apple agrees that customer feedback helps them stay strong. If everyone did not give feedback, Apple would assume the product is acceptable and there would not be this intense drive to improve the next version so quickly. You keep the holy than thou approach and I live in real world and provide my customer feedback. Since you have better things to do, a reply from me will be ignored, lets see.
You get what? That I don't care whether you believe me or not? That's true, I don't, because it's not relevant to the debate. Don't try kindergarten psychology on an emotionally detached person, I'm not motivated by the same things normal people are.
And to think I was being called irrational earlier...
Just out of curiosity, what color is the sky in your world? And are pharmaceuticals involved?
[Except, apparently, Vaelian. He says that maps were the only reason he uses a smartphone - yet he intentionally bought an iPhone even though Google Maps on Android is better.
I also recall explaining that iPhones were the only thing I had available for testing at the time; why did you ignore that?
Except the latter wouldn't have happened without the former, and if I am rendered unable to use GPS on my phone, I will lose interest in developing for it, too. Is it that hard to comprehend?
2. Google's Maps app is known to be better on Android than on iOS (for intentional reasons on Google's part, obviously). You stated that maps are the only reason you use a smart phone - yet you chose an iPhone. That doesn't make sense.
Explained before: What's better for others is not necessarily better for me. I'm not gullible, I make decisions based on my own observations, not on other people's preferences. I had access to iPhones, but not to Android devices, so I was sure that if I bought an iPhone I would be happy with the Maps experience on it, but unsure that I would be happy with the Maps experience on Android.
3. You stated that maps are the only reason you use a smart phone and then later admitted that you're a developer. Either you're an iOS developer who never tests his apps or you're lying. Which is it?
You're confusing cause and effect: I became a developer because I had an iPhone and am a geek who likes to tinker with things. If I stop using an iPhone, I'll stop caring about developing for it. The ability to develop for the platform doesn't make it any more useful to me than it would on, say, a Nokia N9, which by the way is a lot more open. I do not buy hardware to develop for it, I develop for the hardware that I buy.
You are confusing cause and effect, which is an informal logic fallacy, in order to subvert the debate, unfortunately for you it does not work with me (nor does calling me a liar). If you want to have a chance at winning an argument against me, you must resort to logic, not ad hominem.
I've noticed you said you became a developer when you got an iPhone. Interesting seeing as I had been a developer for 5 years in 2007 and had worked on GIS software for 4 of those 5 years.
That's impossible, there was no iOS developer program in 2007...
You pay a fee to Apple of about $100 a year, and that is because Apple gives you access to third-party services and data that Apple is paying others for. Very little is free in the software development world beyond compilers and the IDE (Xcode, Eclipse, etc). That is because many people are selling what they produce and everyone wants a piece of the pie. That isn't speculation, that is reality. Sure, you made find a free component or block of code here and there, but iOS was not copy and pasted together from free code found on the Internet.
Source? Because paying for code-signing digital certificates is nothing new, and they don't involve access to third-party data, either. This includes the Mac Developer Program, which doesn't have Google Maps.
Oops, there goes your logic down the drain... Try harder...
The company I work for has to pay several companies for GIS data, demographic data, and third-party API tools. We have to pay Microsoft for Bing Maps, and based on the way we use that, we'd have to pay Google too. And we pay A LOT. We also pay Google for Google Apps for Business so we can using Gmail and Google Docs as a company. So Google charges for plenty, believe it or not.
You pay for the ability to process that data, not for the ability to directly display it.
Having a hard time understanding things makes you a retard, not others dorks. Don't jump into conclusions about others while clearly stating that you don't understand them, because under your broad definition, disabled people are dorks.
first, don't call me retard. second, if you cant find your way around without arrows pointing you everywhere you go then you are a dork and and or a retard. And I said nothing about the physically disabled and nothing was implied. If you weren't so fscking dense you would have easily understood what I was talking about. Now if you have a problem with that come and see me personally. I will give you turn by turn directions since you are obviously too numb between the ears to find your way without them. I bet if you went out in your front yard and spun around three times you wouldn't find your way back to your front door for a week.
Comments
Except the latter wouldn't have happened without the former, and if I am rendered unable to use GPS on my phone, I will lose interest in developing for it, too. Is it that hard to comprehend?
You get what? That I don't care whether you believe me or not? That's true, I don't, because it's not relevant to the debate. Don't try kindergarten psychology on an emotionally detached person, I'm not motivated by the same things normal people are.
And to think I was being called irrational earlier...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
It's The One Stinking Application that makes me use smartphones.
At this point wouldnt be easier to try a third party app? There are some inexpensive ones out there.
I takes a long time for me to trust a mapping app. My trust in Google Maps did not come overnight, as I mentioned earlier in the thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipen
Ok, someone @ Apple made a bad decision (probably with TC's approval). So what. iphone5 still sells more than 4s in the first weekend. people still upgrading to iOS6. There was no effect as having a bad map app. Yes, people whine about it. But that doesn't affect anything. Come on, people will buy any phone Apple puts out regardless of what's on there. This proves the case.
I agree with most of what you say. Apple did certainly screw up the quality of the 1.0 iOS 6 maps release.
I am not so sure, though, that Apple made a bad decision... given the alternatives! The implementation and the decision are two different things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecs
It's not the media. It's us, Apple users. I'll be very happy to switch to IOS Maps, because Apple products are always higher quality than the competitors, but I'll do it when it's ready. In the meantime, don't force us to travel back in time losing the features we were used to, specially when you could very easily keep Google Maps while you were polishing IOS Maps. On every forums I visit, I don't see the media over-dramatizing, I just see Apple users who disagree with recent Apple policies.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying the maps app is free of issues. Now, I haven't read the other posts you've made, but this post of yours here is NOT over-dramatizing. You seem to be a sensible user who is opting to wait until the maps are to your liking to upgrade. What I was referring to were the rants and posts I've seen from various media outlets and users who are calling a product a disaster and threatening to dump everything Apple because a 3D image of a bridge in their town is drawn poorly, or an icon is missing. from a "known" local coffee shop. These items will undoubtedly get fixed, but I truly wonder what percentage of people are honestly affected by the maps' problems. It's like the Malware issue on Android. Media gets a hold of it, next thing you know there's a perception out there that if you use Android and you download apps, you will get a rogue app installed and all your personal data will be stolen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipen
Ok, someone @ Apple made a bad decision (probably with TC's approval). So what. iphone5 still sells more than 4s in the first weekend. people still upgrading to iOS6. There was no effect as having a bad map app. Yes, people whine about it. But that doesn't affect anything. Come on, people will buy any phone Apple puts out regardless of what's on there. This proves the case.
I disagree. People will buy ANY phone if it best suits their needs (even if the need is simply a vain one). I am sure if someone needs a rock solid reliable map app on their phone and cannot wait till the Apple maps catches up, they wont buy an iPhone, they'll go Android or Windows. You know, It IS possible that for many of the the 100+ million people who bought the 5 or upgraded to iOS6, all these maps issues are not a deal breaker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
You get what? That I don't care whether you believe me or not? That's true, I don't, because it's not relevant to the debate. Don't try kindergarten psychology on an emotionally detached person, I'm not motivated by the same things normal people are.
And to think I was being called irrational earlier...
I know, you were just getting warmed up then.
Except, apparently, Vaelian. He says that maps were the only reason he uses a smartphone - yet he intentionally bought an iPhone even though Google Maps on Android is better.
It would be easier to comprehend if your story made any sense.
For example:
1. Apple released a new mapping program on iOS 6. You are still using iOS 5.1.1, so it doesn't affect you. So why are you whining so much?
2. Google's Maps app is known to be better on Android than on iOS (for intentional reasons on Google's part, obviously). You stated that maps are the only reason you use a smart phone - yet you chose an iPhone. That doesn't make sense.
3. You stated that maps are the only reason you use a smart phone and then later admitted that you're a developer. Either you're an iOS developer who never tests his apps or you're lying. Which is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
For starters, I asked for a citation (you're replying with speculation, which I can do, too), and secondly Apple isn't gathering or processing that data, they're displaying it to users in a convenient way, just like Google does through the browser. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Google would charge Apple for a service that they provide for free, quite the opposite actually, as Google regards users as assets to their advertisement core business, rather than clients.
Citation?
I am providing you something better than a citation or speculation. It is experience.
I've noticed you said you became a developer when you got an iPhone. Interesting seeing as I had been a developer for 5 years in 2007 and had worked on GIS software for 4 of those 5 years.
You pay a fee to Apple of about $100 a year, and that is because Apple gives you access to third-party services and data that Apple is paying others for. Very little is free in the software development world beyond compilers and the IDE (Xcode, Eclipse, etc). That is because many people are selling what they produce and everyone wants a piece of the pie. That isn't speculation, that is reality. Sure, you made find a free component or block of code here and there, but iOS was not copy and pasted together from free code found on the Internet.
The company I work for has to pay several companies for GIS data, demographic data, and third-party API tools. We have to pay Microsoft for Bing Maps, and based on the way we use that, we'd have to pay Google too. And we pay A LOT. We also pay Google for Google Apps for Business so we can using Gmail and Google Docs as a company. So Google charges for plenty, believe it or not.
You can believe Apple wasn't paying Google, but you are wrong.
Sick of iOS 6 maps? Give our 2012 maps a shot!
- Up to date data from around the country
- Thousands of points of interests
- Detailed maps or cities and parks!
- No internet access required!
- No batteries or power source required!
- Real paper look and feel!
- Turn by turn navigation with realistic human voice! *
*Feature requires actual human being that can read a map in passenger seat.
Originally Posted by rednival
- Up to date data from around the country
- Thousands of points of interests
- Detailed maps or cities and parks!
- No internet access required!
- No batteries or power source required!
- Real paper look and feel!
- Turn by turn navigation with realistic human voice! *
*Feature requires actual human being that can read a map in passenger seat.
- Out of date before printing
- Limited by the DPI capabilities of the printer
- Watch out for snakes (who said that?!)
- No updates available
- Ruined when wet (so… just like a digital source)
- Just look and feel, though?
Thing about a paper map is that roads will be under construction for centuries to come.
But you make an interesting point; I think that paper map suppliers would have been better served to advertise against any perceived failure of digital ones than Apple's actual competitors.
Ya' know...
It'd be great PR if Apple gave an iPhone 5 with iOS 6 Maps to every NFL Referee...
I used to buy it yearly. It really only shows major roads, so whenever I drove I would use it to get to whatever city/town I was visiting then I'd buy a local more detailed map at a 7 11 or Walmart.
But OK, using your analogy, perhaps it's more like, every time she opens her mouth she says something factually incorrect. "Black is white", etc. So she's either lying or ignorant. And while incredibly intelligent, she's arrogant about it. Never mind she doesn't understand football. The idea that she doesn't care to learn is enough to sour any relationship. Apple could have offered a choice of downloading Google Maps while on the remaining year of their license, while placing their incomplete version on the Home screen for all the users to use who have no problem with Apple Maps ... And according to you and numerous others on this forum, that's the majority of the users -- the only people complaining are the smallest of vocal minorities.
If you and others really believe that, then why did Apple make a public apology? They didn't capitulate so quickly over "antennagate". And the solution there ... to keep using your analogy, was to dress the beauty up inside a thick wool trench coat. And if you truly believe this is no big deal, then why doesn't Apple just offer the choice now? If Apple's Maps is so much better than Google's then only a small percentage of users will want to download it after being forced to try Apple's, right? And it's not like Apple terminated their license, they just didn't take advantage of it, so they are seemingly in a position to do just that.
But too late now. It's now a pissing contest and (using your analogy) Apple is saying, our girlfriend is better than yours, so no way we're taking her back after what she did to us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal
I did have better things to do, and I went and did them. I didn't go around having a hissy-fit that a man-made product wasn't perfect. I accepted it's shortcomings as a first-release and moved on knowing in time it will get better. Surely, my tune would change if I were paying for a service or a product and it was faulty. This is not the case. With Apple's resources and design-mantra, I see Maps rivaling GoogleMaps, if not surpassing it, sooner than later. I look at the big picture, so should you. But no, you focus on the "now, now, now" and "I want my 5-minute fix" nonsense.
You beat me to it Charli. Everyone I know that upgraded to iOS6 only had a smattering of curiosities about Apple's maps. They didn't care. They too exhibited the same philosophy that it will get better over time and went on with their lives.
Unlike souliisoul which seems to be exhibiting the typical iHating, trolling mentality. He'd rather mouth-off than actually have a rational, grown-up discussion. I find a lot of that mentality infesting AI now.
If you are that stupid or naive to think that the cost of Maps development has not been included in setting the iPhone price, i.e., every year Apple provide certain 'free apps', which they have determined will cost this much to develop and included that in their overall R&D costs, then you more stupid, then I think. Apple will revise the price, if they thought that R&D costs had increased, but you still pay for apps as part of iPhone R&D costs.
Even Apple agrees that customer feedback helps them stay strong. If everyone did not give feedback, Apple would assume the product is acceptable and there would not be this intense drive to improve the next version so quickly. You keep the holy than thou approach and I live in real world and provide my customer feedback. Since you have better things to do, a reply from me will be ignored, lets see.
Edit:http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/09/26/visually-impaired-users-say-ios-6-app-store-redesign-is-a-downgrade, this article shows why Apple listen to customers and reason why your comments are complete rubbish in nature, without customer feedback, Apple would not improve, since their products are being used in real-life situations across millions of people and not just couple of hundred in a closed testing environment.
I also recall explaining that iPhones were the only thing I had available for testing at the time; why did you ignore that?
It doesn't make sense to you because you're confusing cause and effect, which a fallacy.
Explained before: Both iOS 5.1.1 and 6 have pretty bad security holes that won't get fixed in 5.1.1, so eventually I will be forced to upgrade.
Explained before: What's better for others is not necessarily better for me. I'm not gullible, I make decisions based on my own observations, not on other people's preferences. I had access to iPhones, but not to Android devices, so I was sure that if I bought an iPhone I would be happy with the Maps experience on it, but unsure that I would be happy with the Maps experience on Android.
You're confusing cause and effect: I became a developer because I had an iPhone and am a geek who likes to tinker with things. If I stop using an iPhone, I'll stop caring about developing for it. The ability to develop for the platform doesn't make it any more useful to me than it would on, say, a Nokia N9, which by the way is a lot more open. I do not buy hardware to develop for it, I develop for the hardware that I buy.
You are confusing cause and effect, which is an informal logic fallacy, in order to subvert the debate, unfortunately for you it does not work with me (nor does calling me a liar). If you want to have a chance at winning an argument against me, you must resort to logic, not ad hominem.
No, you're providing me with baseless speculation, because there is nowhere I can go to validate your logic.
That's impossible, there was no iOS developer program in 2007...
Source? Because paying for code-signing digital certificates is nothing new, and they don't involve access to third-party data, either. This includes the Mac Developer Program, which doesn't have Google Maps.
Oops, there goes your logic down the drain... Try harder...
You pay for the ability to process that data, not for the ability to directly display it.
Citation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
Having a hard time understanding things makes you a retard, not others dorks. Don't jump into conclusions about others while clearly stating that you don't understand them, because under your broad definition, disabled people are dorks.
first, don't call me retard. second, if you cant find your way around without arrows pointing you everywhere you go then you are a dork and and or a retard. And I said nothing about the physically disabled and nothing was implied. If you weren't so fscking dense you would have easily understood what I was talking about. Now if you have a problem with that come and see me personally. I will give you turn by turn directions since you are obviously too numb between the ears to find your way without them. I bet if you went out in your front yard and spun around three times you wouldn't find your way back to your front door for a week.