NYT: iOS Maps another internet services blunder for Apple

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  • Reply 321 of 454
    Here's a question...

    If the major mapping location and POI issues get resolved in weeks instead of months. If the street view and transportation issues are made non-issues by quickly-available 3rd-party offerings. If, by Christmas 2012, Apple maps is the superior mobile maps app.

    The question... Have we been played like a fine Stradivarius?

    A little off the wall... Maybe... Maybe no!
  • Reply 322 of 454
    hill60 wrote: »
    Hey New York Times,

    [SIZE=24px]WHO OWN'S THE LARGEST ONLINE MUSIC STORE THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN?[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=14px]Bunch of f**king bozo's.[/SIZE]

    And the largest online App Store for both iOS and now OS X.
  • Reply 323 of 454
    nickuk wrote: »
    So, NYT...


    LL

    ...did you also check Google Maps? It's no better. The monument is in the middle of the street and the bus stop in the green.


    LL

    But who cares? Everybody navigation to this location using Google Maps or Apple's Maps will find it.

    There is a difference between having your map data put you in a sub division of houses, and another the takes you to the entrance of the Washington Monument park. That is why Google pinned it there, and because car mode was selected over traneit or walking. Last time I checked, they didn't have a drive through monument. Nice try though sparky.
    Maps for ios6 is a joke. A pathetic attempt to copy Google. I do love all the buildings melting in LA, when in 3d flyover. I also love that my position was only half a mile off, compared to my S3 which shows my position with a few feet. Looking on Google maps I can watch myself moving through my house.
  • Reply 324 of 454
    solipsismx wrote: »
    I'd say Apple will have the best mapping service in many regards within a year.

    I absolutely agree! I also think Apple is just now learning how much people care about their maps. Which is good actually in the long run.
  • Reply 325 of 454
    mac.world wrote: »
    You are an idiot.

    You are a jerk. See how easy that is? ..and in my proposed case probably incidentally factual.

    You're obviously suffering an insecurity of one form or another. Go infest some other site and leave this one alone please.
  • Reply 326 of 454

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Hey New York Times,


     


    WHO OWN'S THE LARGEST ONLINE MUSIC STORE THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN?


     


    Bunch of f**king bozo's.



    What on earth has this got to do with this thread???  Is just me or is it every time Apple makes a stuff up (and in this case admits it) there are people out there that lack objectivity and fall back on stupid irrelevant statements like this.  Maybe hill60 you may not realize it but GM was once THE WORLDS LARGEST AUTO PRODUCER..... now they are 7th, ask yourself why and you'll probably realize that Apple are wise to admit their mistakes and move on quickly before the share prices fall and further.  

  • Reply 327 of 454
    jragosta wrote: »
    And what are your qualifications to make anyone care about your opinion?
    I have extensive CEO experience. Tim Cook doesn't have as many years as me, but a significantly larger company. He also has access to some of the best advisors in the business.
    So why is your opinion more valid than his or my statements?

    Is everyone CEO nowadays?
    I don't think mentioning that has any value.
    but by not being a CEO myself I invalidate my statement?
    I could ask you to prove your a CEO ...

    J.
  • Reply 328 of 454
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,212member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post





    Is everyone CEO nowadays?

    I don't think mentioning that has any value.

    but by not being a CEO myself I invalidate my statement?

    I could ask you to prove your a CEO ...

    J.


    He is. 


    And I agree that doesn't automatically make him more qualified to comment on Apple management than someone who is not. Heck I've been CEO for two different companies myself, and still am at one of them.image

  • Reply 329 of 454
    rayzrayz Posts: 814member


    A few years ago, Apple asked Adobe to make Flash fit for mobile.


    Adobe said, "Yeah, when we get around to it."


    Apple refused to support Flash in iOS. There was wailing in the forums.


    When Adobe realised that the iPad was going to be bigger than Jupiter, they scrambled like mad to fix the problem. 


    They failed.


     


    A few months ago, Apple asked EPEAT to approve the new Retina Macbook Pro.


    EPEAT said, "No. You can't dismantle it with tools you find at home."


    Apple pulled all its products from EPEAT.  There was wailing in the forums.


    A few days later, all Apple products are back in EPEAT, along with the Retina Macbook Pro, which STILL can't be dismantled with tools you find in the home.


     


    A few months ago, Apple asked Google to allow for turn-by-turn navigation in the iPhone/iPad


    Google said, "Ah, but then Android wouldn't have a competitive advantage over the iPhone, so the answer is no."


    Guess what Apple did next? Yes, they pulled Google Maps from iOS (yeah, wailing in the forums), immediately cutting 100million users from Google's ad tracking schemes with no way back.


     


    The 'apology' is a carefully worded threat: Eric, mate; we want a Google map that is functionally on a par with the Android version. We are not going back on this, no matter how much they wail in the forums, so the longer you take to deliver this then the more people you will lose to the likes of Waze. Take your time, we'll just carry on improving our own service; it really is up to you.

  • Reply 330 of 454
    dskdsk Posts: 18member
    jragosta wrote: »
    I'm still waiting for one shred of legitimate evidence that Apple's Maps are significantly worse than Google's Maps.
    NYT is doing what everyone else seems to be doing. Someone starts a rumor that there's a problem and everyone accepts it as fact. Then Google reinforces the rumor with an ad based on the fact that Apple's Maps is somehow inferior because it won't find a hand-selected, imaginary address.
    The only one who even tried a side-by-side comparison is (surprisingly) Consumer Reports which found that Apple's Maps was as good as Google's Maps when it came to finding an address.
    So please show me the FACTS (not oft-repated opinions or anecdotes) that "substantial criticism is due".

    So you need factual difference?
    Install the booking.com app and take a look in satellite view for island of skiathos. You cant even nearly estimate the environment of the hotel you want to book. If you have ios 5 by hand, feel free to compare...
  • Reply 331 of 454
    mcarlingmcarling Posts: 1,106member


    If I could get Apple to fix only one problem in Maps, it would be the lack of map data caching.  Many people need to rely on maps when they either have no Internet connection or when the only possible Internet connection involved expensive data roaming.  It's important to be able to load a route in advance, when one has a Wifi connection, and have Maps cache all the relevant map data.

  • Reply 332 of 454
    mcarling wrote: »
    If I could get Apple to fix only one problem in Maps, it would be the lack of map data caching.  Many people need to rely on maps when they either have no Internet connection or when the only possible Internet connection involved expensive data roaming.  It's important to be able to load a route in advance, when one has a Wifi connection, and have Maps cache all the relevant map data.

    Why do you describe that as a problem? It is a desirable feature that has not, yet, been implemented.

    It should be fairly simple for Apple to do – similar to bookmarking articles in Safari for off-line reading.

    That said, Apple has no way to easily do a feature request for maps at this time.

    So, you should drop a pin on an appropriate map and submit a feature request through the problem report mechanism.
  • Reply 333 of 454
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post



    A New York Times report on Friday says Apple's new iOS Maps app and corresponding service is another casualty of the company's lack of focus in offering reliable internet-based services, and reveals the original iPhone wasn't planned to have mapping software until mere weeks before its debut.


     



     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ernysp76 View Post


    What on earth has this got to do with this thread???  Is just me or is it every time Apple makes a stuff up (and in this case admits it) there are people out there that lack objectivity and fall back on stupid irrelevant statements like this.  Maybe hill60 you may not realize it but GM was once THE WORLDS LARGEST AUTO PRODUCER..... now they are 7th, ask yourself why and you'll probably realize that Apple are wise to admit their mistakes and move on quickly before the share prices fall and further.  



     


    The iTunes store is an Internet-based service, is it not?

  • Reply 334 of 454
    dsk wrote: »
    jragosta wrote: »
    I'm still waiting for one shred of legitimate evidence that Apple's Maps are significantly worse than Google's Maps.
    NYT is doing what everyone else seems to be doing. Someone starts a rumor that there's a problem and everyone accepts it as fact. Then Google reinforces the rumor with an ad based on the fact that Apple's Maps is somehow inferior because it won't find a hand-selected, imaginary address.
    The only one who even tried a side-by-side comparison is (surprisingly) Consumer Reports which found that Apple's Maps was as good as Google's Maps when it came to finding an address.
    So please show me the FACTS (not oft-repated opinions or anecdotes) that "substantial criticism is due".

    So you need factual difference?
    Install the booking.com app and take a look in satellite view for island of skiathos. You cant even nearly estimate the environment of the hotel you want to book. If you have ios 5 by hand, feel free to compare...

    Could you please post images that illustrate the point you're trying to make?

    Using two different iPads I tried both the Google maps app and the Apple maps app for Skiathos.

    As expected the satellite views were similar although Google maps showed a few more hotels.

    Then I tried the booking.com app. This is a specialty app for booking hotels in various locations.

    As expected, this app showed a lot more hotels but had a similar satellite view to the other apps. I could not easily determine who supplied the map and satellite data.


    Okay, here's the deal…. There are about 100 million iPad in use. The iPad is an excellent vehicle for hotel booking and vacation planning – especially with apps like the booking.com, that you suggested. The iPad 3, with retina display, is especially well-suited to this type of application.

    With Apples MapKit API, it is easy for a developer to write an application where pins are dropped and points of interest information is displayed ala booking.com. Apple supplies the map and the developer supplies the longitude, latitude and POI information.

    Before iOS 6, all the backend map data was supplied by Google. Now all of backend map data is supplied by Apple and various third-party services.

    I suspect that the map app developers will adjust their applications, as necessary, to use the new map data. And, I expect that they will be quite vocal reporting any deficiencies or map problems.

    Long story, short... I expect that, within a few weeks, most of these third-party specialty map apps will be using the new Apple maps app backend... And browbeating Apple to supply 3-D flyover data for the areas that they service.
  • Reply 335 of 454
    dskdsk Posts: 18member
    Could you please post images that illustrate the point you're trying to make?
    Using two different iPads I tried both the Google maps app and the Apple maps app for Skiathos.
    As expected the satellite views were similar although Google maps showed a few more hotels.
    Then I tried the booking.com app. This is a specialty app for booking hotels in various locations.
    As expected, this app showed a lot more hotels but had a similar satellite view to the other apps. I could not easily determine who supplied the map and satellite data.
    Okay, here's the deal…. There are about 100 million iPad in use. The iPad is an excellent vehicle for hotel booking and vacation planning – especially with apps like the booking.com, that you suggested. The iPad 3, with retina display, is especially well-suited to this type of application.
    With Apples MapKit API, it is easy for a developer to write an application where pins are dropped and points of interest information is displayed ala booking.com. Apple supplies the map and the developer supplies the longitude, latitude and POI information.
    Before iOS 6, all the backend map data was supplied by Google. Now all of backend map data is supplied by Apple and various third-party services.
    I suspect that the map app developers will adjust their applications, as necessary, to use the new map data. And, I expect that they will be quite vocal reporting any deficiencies or map problems.
    Long story, short... I expect that, within a few weeks, most of these third-party specialty map apps will be using the new Apple maps app backend... And browbeating Apple to supply 3-D flyover data for the areas that they service.

    Hi, this exact thing is what bothers me. Developers are tied to default OS mapping application. At the moment i see ipad exactly like that.
    Excellent vehicle with mediocre audio system. And the problem is if i keep speaking metaphorically, i can change the audio unit but crappy speakers are built in and irreplaceable. On ipad i can have third party app for maps, but any other app that uses maps will show only apple maps inside. It is not so problematic with browser for instance, whether to use safari or chrome is my own choice, but maps are part of many other applications which are now degraded partially. I will post the pictures in question when im on PC.
  • Reply 336 of 454

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dsk View Post





    So you need factual difference?

    Install the booking.com app and take a look in satellite view for island of skiathos. You cant even nearly estimate the environment of the hotel you want to book. If you have ios 5 by hand, feel free to compare...


     


    Wow!    ok class - raise your hand if you need to estimate the environment of a hotel on the island of skiathos... I cant even write that without busting out in laughter!!! seriously dude,


    Now class, raise your hand if you need to estimate the environment near the portable toilet at the community college football field before purchasing tickets to the game... 


     


    sorry dsk but i couldn't resist...


     


     


    Don't you all think this has gone far enough?  You people do realize that there are maybe three dozen peeps arguing this issue on an obscure (no one but hard core enthusiast give a shit) forum. The reality is that 99.999999999% (conservative estimate) of the iphone users don't give a rats ass about the the maps and all your squabbling. A not yet implemented feature of a map app is not the end of the world, not even on the list bucket list. Get over it!! Apple will add features and improve the map with diligence. No map service is perfect-NONE.


    Apple made the right choice by booting goofle off their phones. It's Apples (the most successful electronic company in the world, ever) decision, and for the few here arguing the demise of apple over this, I will bet that you will find Apple continuing to stomp the shit out of all competitors in the business as they have for the past decade. 


    Have a nice day, Randy 8^)

  • Reply 337 of 454
    richlrichl Posts: 2,213member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RogueDogRandy View Post


     It's Apples (the most successful electronic company in the world, ever) decision, and for the few here arguing the demise of apple over this, I will bet that you will find Apple continuing to stomp the shit out of all competitors in the business as they have for the past decade. 



     


    Past performance is no guarantee of future success. 


     


    iOS is still by far and away the best mobile platform on the planet at the moment but it's mess-ups like this that's allowing others to chip away at Apple's lead. Nothing lasts forever but I hope that Apple steps up its game to ensure that its time at the top lasts for as long as possible.

  • Reply 338 of 454
    Spare me all this drama. It is a freaking locaton system. If you don't like it then haul a** to another mapping system. Like,um ,Goggle.
  • Reply 339 of 454
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    ernysp76 wrote: »
    What on earth has this got to do with this thread???  Is just me or is it every time Apple makes a stuff up (and in this case admits it) there are people out there that lack objectivity and fall back on stupid irrelevant statements like this.  Maybe hill60 you may not realize it but GM was once THE WORLDS LARGEST AUTO PRODUCER..... now they are 7th, ask yourself why and you'll probably realize that Apple are wise to admit their mistakes and move on quickly before the share prices fall and further.  

    Let's see if we can figure this out. NYT writes an article claiming that Apple is incompetent when it comes to the internet.

    OP reminds everyone that Apple has the largest online music store on the planet (and the largest app store, too). Apple has been doing the internet well for ages.

    And you can't figure out why it's relevant to the thread???? *shakes head*

    jnjnjn wrote: »
    Is everyone CEO nowadays?
    I don't think mentioning that has any value.
    but by not being a CEO myself I invalidate my statement?
    I could ask you to prove your a CEO ...
    J.

    It establishes that you have no experience relevant to the subject at hand.

    Cook made a statement. I have considerably more years of CEO experience than Cook, but much less experience in real terms because of company size as well as his years of managing divisions, yet I agree with him. You, with no experience managing a company, disagree with Cook and his staff of experts. The point is that there's absolutely no reason to believe an anonymous person with no experience unless you can give some good supporting evidence - which you have not done.

    dsk wrote: »
    So you need factual difference?
    Install the booking.com app and take a look in satellite view for island of skiathos. You cant even nearly estimate the environment of the hotel you want to book. If you have ios 5 by hand, feel free to compare...

    First, that's booking.com. Why don't we stick to the Maps apps?

    Second, please look up the difference between anecdotes and data. I could pick sites where Google fails, too. That would not be proof that one is better than the other. I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence of how frequently each app fails. AFAIK, Consumer Reports is the only one who even tried and they found that there was no problem with Apple's Maps in their very limited test.

    So as soon as you have valid statistical data as to how the two apps compare, feel free to provide it.

    igriv wrote: »
    Since both Apple and Google have money up the wazoo, I am predicting that in a year we will have much improved mapping from both. Competition is our friend.
     

    Not according to the trolls. They insist that someone competing with Apple is a good thing - no matter how crappy the competitor is. But when Apple competes with someone else, it's pure evil.
    davida wrote: »
    If you think it's apple technology handling the volume, you have no clue.

    How does that negate what OP said? Apple has managed to get the infrastructure in place to handle the switch so that they were able to handle many many millions of requests immediately after the iOS 6 upgrade went live. Whether Mac OS X handles the servers or not is irrelevant to that subject.
    cpsro wrote: »
    I believe I've adequately justified my opinion. And I could care less if you are or ever have been a CEO.

    No, you haven't. You've stated an opinion - nothing more, nothing less. And when you simply state an opinion without evidence, credentials matter. You don't have any credentials that make your opinion useful. I do. More importantly, Cook has shown his ability to run the largest public company on the planet (by market cap) successfully and has a great team of advisors. It takes more than an unfounded opinion to prove his actions to be wrong.
    9secondko wrote: »
    All apple had to do was slap a "beta" tag in mdps like they did with siri.
    Instead of complaints about something advertised as finished, they'd have received praise about something advertised as incomplete.

    I disagree. With Siri, they weren't replacing another iOS feature, so calling it 'beta' didn't hurt anything. With Maps, calling it beta would have created even more problems. Giving people a beta and removing the established app would be an even bigger problem than what we have. Even if the beta worked 100% flawlessly and never let anyone down, people would be complaining "How could Apple take away the existing Maps solution and only give us a beta in its place?"
    Here's a question...
    If the major mapping location and POI issues get resolved in weeks instead of months. If the street view and transportation issues are made non-issues by quickly-available 3rd-party offerings. If, by Christmas 2012, Apple maps is the superior mobile maps app.
    The question... Have we been played like a fine Stradivarius?
    A little off the wall... Maybe... Maybe no!

    It's totally irrelevant. Just like antennagate and all the other fabricated stories, it's not going to affect Apple's sales. The number of people whining about the Maps is insignificant. The majority of people haven't heard about it or, if they did, have completely ignored it (you generally have to hear something multiple times for it to make much of an impression). It will make no difference whether it's the same as it is today or if every single flaw is fixed by Christmas. No one is bothering to do a side-by-side comparison of the maps, anyway (except CR and even they didn't do it well).

    richl wrote: »
    Past performance is no guarantee of future success. 

    iOS is still by far and away the best mobile platform on the planet at the moment but it's mess-ups like this that's allowing others to chip away at Apple's lead. Nothing lasts forever but I hope that Apple steps up its game to ensure that its time at the top lasts for as long as possible.

    Please explain exactly what 'mess-up' you are referring to. But explain it only with facts, not loud-mouthed opinions from paid Google mouthpieces. What is the percentage of people who get wrong information from Apple's Maps vs the percentage who get wrong information from Google's Maps? Unless you have a statistical comparison, how can you call it a mess-up?
  • Reply 340 of 454

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dsk View Post





    So you need factual difference?

    Install the booking.com app and take a look in satellite view for island of skiathos. You cant even nearly estimate the environment of the hotel you want to book. If you have ios 5 by hand, feel free to compare...


     


    Apparently people don't understand the difference between anecdote and evidence.


     


    Yours is an interesting story, but it may well be that, for every instance like that found on Apple Maps where it isn't entirely perfect, there's at least one similar issue on Google Maps somewhere else in the world. In other words, it only shows that one works better at that particular location, not for the globe as a whole. A lot of the anecdotes we have on this source to Google who spent months going over the Apple Maps betas to find discrepancies. We know this to be the case because they didn't just whip together their little iLost ad in a moment. They had it prepared in advance for the launch of Apple's Maps, then, pulled the trigger on that little fraud immediately. For all we know, many of the "discrepancies" uncovered by Google were wrong on their Maps too, but they fixed them before the launch of Apple's Maps so they could use those as fodder.


     


    So, how much better, if at all, is Google Maps today? We don't really have an answer to that since no one has compared the actual map data to a degree that allows any advantage to be quantified. What we do have are anecdotes on both sides claiming that one or the other is better at a specific location, reports that Apple Maps is vastly superior in China, fraudulent ads from Google, a lot of astroturfing, a repeat of the media's bad reporting on the so called "antennagate" issue where they didn't bother to research the story they were being fed, and generally a lot of misinformation being pushed around.


     


    Want some tests that indicate Google Maps isn't really all that great compared to Apple Maps in the Canadian Province of Ontario? Read this: http://vore.cc/post/32503374905/old-maps-vs-new-maps


     


    So, it seems that Google Maps, contrary to popular belief, may suck just as bad or worse than Apple Maps, at least in some locations. Why then is everyone claiming that Google Maps is "so much" better? I think it's a few things. One, Google's strategy of always trying to return a result, even if it's useless, may give the illusion of it being more omniscient. Apple's strategy of only returning real and sane results may, in comparison, make it seem faltering. We saw exactly this with fraudulent Google iLost ad, where they exploited it to make it appear that Apple Maps couldn't find things that Google Maps could, even those things didn't exist. This is basically equivalent to asking each map system, "Where do the elves live?" Google will drop a pin somewhere and say, "They live right here, now you know." Apple will tell you, "There are no elves."


     


    The other factor, related to the first, is, because everyone is used to it. People like what they are used to. People don't like change. Just their familiarity with Google Maps and it' behaviors and quirks (and it appears to still have plenty of quirks), and their unfamiliarity with the personality of Apple's Maps, their not always knowing what to expect from it, while they know what Google Maps will do most of the time, makes them feel more comfortable with it, makes them think it's better. The point is, it may not be better. Google maps may just be the devil we know.

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