Unfortunately, the other search engines suck (I really wanted to like Bing, but could not bring myself to do it). Wait, maybe Apple can invest its $120Bn in developing Apple Search!
That's the thing: for a search engine to improve, it needs to collect user data. More users, better results.
Google has a clear advantage and it is hard to see how anyone can compete with Google Search, Google Maps, etc...
... 2) it's been shown every quarter that Google makes more money from iOS devices than all other mobile devices combines so I'm not sure how Google is winning if they make more from Apple with ad revenue and are still down many billions in their mobile division efforts. MS makes more from Android than Google does.
It is pretty ridiculous.
Wouldn't it be great if the "journalists" doing these interviews had the intelligence and courage to call them on their bullshit and ask questions about even half of the issues that have been raised here. Or even question the hypocrisy of "open" at Google. But, no, the just publish this stuff as though it actually makes sense. Not really even an interview. More like, come on over and say whatever you want and we'll print it without question.
But, as pointed out earlier, Eric Schmidt and Larry Page say this kind of stuff in every interview they do, make wild predictions about this or that and it never pans out the way they said it would be. A couple years ago, it was, "Everyone is moving to Web apps." Didn't happen, not going to happen. Google TV. Android first. A string of what they obviously intend to be self-fulfilling prophecies, but no one is really listening, which is significant in itself.
If success is viewed in terms of profits only then there is cause for concern.
What happens when Android ships on the majority of smartphones?
- developers will jump ship and start developing first on Android.
Despite the number of activations, most of the purchasing of applications is being done on iOS devices. Why would they leave the where the money is to be made?
Hey Eric Schmidt, actor Charlie Sheen was "Winning" also, still it didn't stop people from looking at his actions and thinking he was a kook and notice how you don't hear too much about Charlie Sheen anymore, whether on purpose or not!
WINNING!...
/
/
/
I get your point, but I don't think the Charlie Sheen comparison works here. He got a $100 million settlement from CBS for his firing. I would call that winning.
2) it's been shown every quarter that Google makes more money from iOS devices than all other mobile devices combines so I'm not sure how Google is winning if they make more from Apple with ad revenue and are still down many billions in their mobile division efforts. MS makes more from Android than Google does.
Maybe that's why they're going to charge small businesses for the use of their online docs services?
The thin edge of the wedge, no doubt, as they try to open up more revenue streams.
Or perhaps it's why they try to avoid paying taxes:
Google chairman Eric Schmidt has defended the company's tax policies, saying of the internet giant's moves to get out of paying billions of dollars: "It's called capitalism".
We don't have a problem with competition. We just want the competition to stop stealing. Pepsi didn't steal coke's formula. BK didn't steal McDs secret sauce.
Please tell me how did google steal from apple. An example would be great and an FYI android did look like a Blackberry clone then when the market began to want a touch screen device then it took the shape of a touch screen device. (They adapted to the market) they did not copy from apple making it a touch-centric OS. The over over all feel to the device was still like a blackberry adapted to touch. Home screen with an app drawer with your apps in it rather then a home screen full of apps.
I get your point, but I don't think the Charlie Sheen comparison works here. He got a $100 million settlement from CBS for his firing. I would call that winning.
Not really a settlement as it's simply what he was already owed, nothing more. CBS simply stopped payments to him.
He gets $25 million which was already owed to him and the rest will be residuals for reruns.
I'm quite happy for Apple to be in second or third place or even a rank outsider. Let the masses have their cheap plastic pieces of crap. As long as Apple continues to make the best engineered devices and the best overall user experience they'll be fine and people will be prepared to pay more, just as they have been doing.
Apple have proven themselves capable of reinventing computers, devices and software when necessary to stay competitive. I see no reason why this will change.
I don't use Google any more because it's nothing but an advertising company selling search rankings for money. I want my searches to be ranked on relevance and helpfulness, not by how much has been paid for the privilege! OK they've got the best maps for now but that too may change in the future.
Both Ford and Honda sell more cars than Mercedes and BMW, but which duo is better engineered and higher quality?
Android is on up to 100 phones (http://www.android.com/devices/), Apple iOS is on 1 phone per year (right now 3 in total for sale) - it's utterly ridiculous to compare the two OS' how Schmidt is.
That link includes tablets/phablets as well..so it's more like 100 devices on the Android side to 6 devices (iPod, iPhones, iPads) on the iOS side. Looking through that link how do they differentiate themselves? Samsung has 24 devices in that list. It's also funny that they still list the Dell Streak from there. Looks like some of these devices are old and not for sale anymore, though.
Still when you look at this list it's a ridiculous comparison for activations. Just like all the comparisons that people have made. Android has mindshare and is not bad. But damn if they don't have a proliferation of devices.
Despite the number of activations, most of the purchasing of applications is being done on iOS devices. Why would they leave the where the money is to be made?
Right now yes but what do you think will happen when most users are on android? Developers will follow and build for that platform first. What is true today may change tomorrow and this is where the focus should be.
Right now yes but what do you think will happen when most users are on android? Developers will follow and build for that platform first. What is true today may change tomorrow and this is where the focus should be.
According to Android activation numbers it's been that way for years and yet the App Store is far ahead in every respect.
According to Android activation numbers it's been that way for years
I don't think so Soli. Until this year I hadn't seen even semi-reliable claims that Android had a larger user base than iOS. But I do agree with your premise that developers aren't likely to jump ship to Android first anytime soon.
According to Android activation numbers it's been that way for years and yet the App Store is far ahead in every respect.
The tipping point will happen when you start seing top tier developers building on Android first and that has not happened yet and so yes, the App Store is still ahead but for how long? Do you think iOS will remain ahead when all the new apps are on Android?
Do you think a developer will not choose a platform that has more users?
Yes, right now people are spending more on iOS but Apple is merely educating future Android customers on how to spend on mobile device.
I work in enterprise mobility and I can tell you that there is a clear trend towards Android. Apple should get real and start recognizing that they are losing.
And I think they have which is one reason why Forstall is out.
Google has been acquiring companies that do well on the App Store right and left which is very different from Apple's approach. Google knows how to build software and services and they are not afraid to acquire companies, on the contrary.
As near to 'forever' as is feasible in the tech industry.
Do you think iOS will remain ahead when all the new apps are on Android?
They won't be, so yes.
Do you think a developer will not choose a platform that has more users?
They're doing that NOW. More people actually USE their iOS devices. Look at ANY stats about app downloads, app purchases, money spent, and even the USE of the device beyond as a phone! That's why iOS is ahead. AND because of the tools afforded to developers and the security that they KNOW that 9x as many people won't be pirating their app as legally downloaded it (like on Android).
Yes, right now people are spending more on iOS but Apple is merely educating future Android customers on how to spend on mobile device.
… And by what magical procedure do you expect them to switch away from the OS they learned how to use? How is this a valid supposition at all?
iOS isn't "training wheels".
Google has been acquiring companies that do well on the App Store right and left which is very different from Apple's approach.
Yeah, it's different in that Apple lets people who do well continue to do well if they couldn't care less about integrating whatever they do into their OS. Google buys anything in a desperate attempt to be everything.
Google knows how to build software and services and they are not afraid to acquire companies, on the contrary.
I'd link you to a list of Apple acquisitions in just the last five years, but would you pay attention to it?
As near to 'forever' as is feasible in the tech industry.
They won't be, so yes.
They're doing that NOW. More people actually USE their iOS devices. Look at ANY stats about app downloads, app purchases, money spent, and even the USE of the device beyond as a phone! That's why iOS is ahead. AND because of the tools afforded to developers and the security that they KNOW that 9x as many people won't be pirating their app as legally downloaded it (like on Android).
… And by what magical procedure do you expect them to switch away from the OS they learned how to use? How is this a valid supposition at all?
iOS isn't "training wheels".
Yeah, it's different in that Apple lets people who do well continue to do well if they couldn't care less about integrating whatever they do into their OS. Google buys anything in a desperate attempt to be everything.
I'd link you to a list of Apple acquisitions in just the last five years, but would you pay attention to it?
- Nothing last forever in the tech industry. It's not feasible.
- Your stats are true for now but that will change as more users move to Android. And this number will accelerate when the best apps are developed for android first and the whole mobile apps ecosystem migrates to Android just because of the sheer volume of users.
- By "educating" I am talking about Apple as an engine that encourages a new purchasing behaviour. For example, Amazon pioneered the one-click purchase when the web was still nascent but today, almost all web transactions are one-click so Amazon helped people get familar and comfortable with this. Eventually users will get comfortable and more sophisticated with their mobile devices and mobile purchases wether it is done on iOS or Android.
If Apple wants to avoid becoming a niche player again they will have to rethink their strategy. It is a platform war and the platform with the biggest install base always win. And this is the kind of winning that Eric Schmidt was referring to, not who makes the most money but who will have the biggest pie. Google has the deep pockets to invest in this venture for the long haul until the market conditions are in their favor. Google is basically printing money from its advertizing unit and this revenue stream is not in jeopardy. So we'll see in 3-5 years who was right...
hmm, I thought I was replying to someone else's comment; not to the article.
Excellent post. Google really needs to wrap it's hands around how updates are pushed out to the various different phones. I feel that's what's missing is a consistent "feel" of the OS from phone to phone.
I love the iOS but I do not like the new iPhone hardware. If I could get iOS on my Samsung S3 I would be in heaven!
I know what you're saying here, but I also appreciate replicant's point, and I think what s/he's suggesting may be closer to the truth than we're willing to believe. Android users used to be a niche demographic. I think people are starting to see it as a viable and much less expensive alternative. Even my wife recently complained that she has to pay for an app that's free on Android. You and I know it's worth it, but I don't think MOST people see it that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
How can you afford pie—or any food—when you have no money?
Google doesn't make their money selling phones or apps. They sell YOU AND ME -- our habits, preferences and interests -- and it seems they've been doing a pretty good job of it. They don't need to make money on the OS because it's just another data mining tentacle feeding into the part of the machine that DOES make money.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
Unfortunately, the other search engines suck (I really wanted to like Bing, but could not bring myself to do it). Wait, maybe Apple can invest its $120Bn in developing Apple Search!
That's the thing: for a search engine to improve, it needs to collect user data. More users, better results.
Google has a clear advantage and it is hard to see how anyone can compete with Google Search, Google Maps, etc...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
... 2) it's been shown every quarter that Google makes more money from iOS devices than all other mobile devices combines so I'm not sure how Google is winning if they make more from Apple with ad revenue and are still down many billions in their mobile division efforts. MS makes more from Android than Google does.
It is pretty ridiculous.
Wouldn't it be great if the "journalists" doing these interviews had the intelligence and courage to call them on their bullshit and ask questions about even half of the issues that have been raised here. Or even question the hypocrisy of "open" at Google. But, no, the just publish this stuff as though it actually makes sense. Not really even an interview. More like, come on over and say whatever you want and we'll print it without question.
But, as pointed out earlier, Eric Schmidt and Larry Page say this kind of stuff in every interview they do, make wild predictions about this or that and it never pans out the way they said it would be. A couple years ago, it was, "Everyone is moving to Web apps." Didn't happen, not going to happen. Google TV. Android first. A string of what they obviously intend to be self-fulfilling prophecies, but no one is really listening, which is significant in itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by replicant
If success is viewed in terms of profits only then there is cause for concern.
What happens when Android ships on the majority of smartphones?
- developers will jump ship and start developing first on Android.
Despite the number of activations, most of the purchasing of applications is being done on iOS devices. Why would they leave the where the money is to be made?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple
Hey Eric Schmidt, actor Charlie Sheen was "Winning" also, still it didn't stop people from looking at his actions and thinking he was a kook and notice how you don't hear too much about Charlie Sheen anymore, whether on purpose or not!
WINNING!...
/
/
/
I get your point, but I don't think the Charlie Sheen comparison works here. He got a $100 million settlement from CBS for his firing. I would call that winning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
2) it's been shown every quarter that Google makes more money from iOS devices than all other mobile devices combines so I'm not sure how Google is winning if they make more from Apple with ad revenue and are still down many billions in their mobile division efforts. MS makes more from Android than Google does.
Maybe that's why they're going to charge small businesses for the use of their online docs services?
http://www.theage.com.au/small-business/smallbiz-tech/google-to-charge-small-firms-for-webbased-apps-software-20121212-2b922.html
The thin edge of the wedge, no doubt, as they try to open up more revenue streams.
Or perhaps it's why they try to avoid paying taxes:
Google chairman Eric Schmidt has defended the company's tax policies, saying of the internet giant's moves to get out of paying billions of dollars: "It's called capitalism".
http://www.theage.com.au/business/world-business/google-on-tax-schemes--its-called-capitalism-20121213-2batw.html
But we know the uproar that happens when there's a story about Apple minimising it's tax burden, don't we?
Please tell me how did google steal from apple. An example would be great and an FYI android did look like a Blackberry clone then when the market began to want a touch screen device then it took the shape of a touch screen device. (They adapted to the market) they did not copy from apple making it a touch-centric OS. The over over all feel to the device was still like a blackberry adapted to touch. Home screen with an app drawer with your apps in it rather then a home screen full of apps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple v. Samsung
then when the market began to want a touch screen device then it took the shape of a touch screen device. (They adapted to the market)
Ahh, that's what it's called... (my emphases)
* Eric Schmidt
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSteelers
I get your point, but I don't think the Charlie Sheen comparison works here. He got a $100 million settlement from CBS for his firing. I would call that winning.
Not really a settlement as it's simply what he was already owed, nothing more. CBS simply stopped payments to him.
He gets $25 million which was already owed to him and the rest will be residuals for reruns.
Apple have proven themselves capable of reinventing computers, devices and software when necessary to stay competitive. I see no reason why this will change.
I don't use Google any more because it's nothing but an advertising company selling search rankings for money. I want my searches to be ranked on relevance and helpfulness, not by how much has been paid for the privilege! OK they've got the best maps for now but that too may change in the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesomorphicman
Both Ford and Honda sell more cars than Mercedes and BMW, but which duo is better engineered and higher quality?
Android is on up to 100 phones (http://www.android.com/devices/), Apple iOS is on 1 phone per year (right now 3 in total for sale) - it's utterly ridiculous to compare the two OS' how Schmidt is.
That link includes tablets/phablets as well..so it's more like 100 devices on the Android side to 6 devices (iPod, iPhones, iPads) on the iOS side. Looking through that link how do they differentiate themselves? Samsung has 24 devices in that list. It's also funny that they still list the Dell Streak from there. Looks like some of these devices are old and not for sale anymore, though.
Still when you look at this list it's a ridiculous comparison for activations. Just like all the comparisons that people have made. Android has mindshare and is not bad. But damn if they don't have a proliferation of devices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen
Despite the number of activations, most of the purchasing of applications is being done on iOS devices. Why would they leave the where the money is to be made?
Right now yes but what do you think will happen when most users are on android? Developers will follow and build for that platform first. What is true today may change tomorrow and this is where the focus should be.
According to Android activation numbers it's been that way for years and yet the App Store is far ahead in every respect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
According to Android activation numbers it's been that way for years
I don't think so Soli. Until this year I hadn't seen even semi-reliable claims that Android had a larger user base than iOS. But I do agree with your premise that developers aren't likely to jump ship to Android first anytime soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
According to Android activation numbers it's been that way for years and yet the App Store is far ahead in every respect.
The tipping point will happen when you start seing top tier developers building on Android first and that has not happened yet and so yes, the App Store is still ahead but for how long? Do you think iOS will remain ahead when all the new apps are on Android?
Do you think a developer will not choose a platform that has more users?
Yes, right now people are spending more on iOS but Apple is merely educating future Android customers on how to spend on mobile device.
I work in enterprise mobility and I can tell you that there is a clear trend towards Android. Apple should get real and start recognizing that they are losing.
And I think they have which is one reason why Forstall is out.
Google has been acquiring companies that do well on the App Store right and left which is very different from Apple's approach. Google knows how to build software and services and they are not afraid to acquire companies, on the contrary.
Originally Posted by replicant
…the App Store is still ahead but for how long?
As near to 'forever' as is feasible in the tech industry.
Do you think iOS will remain ahead when all the new apps are on Android?
They won't be, so yes.
Do you think a developer will not choose a platform that has more users?
They're doing that NOW. More people actually USE their iOS devices. Look at ANY stats about app downloads, app purchases, money spent, and even the USE of the device beyond as a phone! That's why iOS is ahead. AND because of the tools afforded to developers and the security that they KNOW that 9x as many people won't be pirating their app as legally downloaded it (like on Android).
Yes, right now people are spending more on iOS but Apple is merely educating future Android customers on how to spend on mobile device.
… And by what magical procedure do you expect them to switch away from the OS they learned how to use? How is this a valid supposition at all?
iOS isn't "training wheels".
Google has been acquiring companies that do well on the App Store right and left which is very different from Apple's approach.
Yeah, it's different in that Apple lets people who do well continue to do well if they couldn't care less about integrating whatever they do into their OS. Google buys anything in a desperate attempt to be everything.
Google knows how to build software and services and they are not afraid to acquire companies, on the contrary.
I'd link you to a list of Apple acquisitions in just the last five years, but would you pay attention to it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
As near to 'forever' as is feasible in the tech industry.
They won't be, so yes.
They're doing that NOW. More people actually USE their iOS devices. Look at ANY stats about app downloads, app purchases, money spent, and even the USE of the device beyond as a phone! That's why iOS is ahead. AND because of the tools afforded to developers and the security that they KNOW that 9x as many people won't be pirating their app as legally downloaded it (like on Android).
… And by what magical procedure do you expect them to switch away from the OS they learned how to use? How is this a valid supposition at all?
iOS isn't "training wheels".
Yeah, it's different in that Apple lets people who do well continue to do well if they couldn't care less about integrating whatever they do into their OS. Google buys anything in a desperate attempt to be everything.
I'd link you to a list of Apple acquisitions in just the last five years, but would you pay attention to it?
- Nothing last forever in the tech industry. It's not feasible.
- Your stats are true for now but that will change as more users move to Android. And this number will accelerate when the best apps are developed for android first and the whole mobile apps ecosystem migrates to Android just because of the sheer volume of users.
- By "educating" I am talking about Apple as an engine that encourages a new purchasing behaviour. For example, Amazon pioneered the one-click purchase when the web was still nascent but today, almost all web transactions are one-click so Amazon helped people get familar and comfortable with this. Eventually users will get comfortable and more sophisticated with their mobile devices and mobile purchases wether it is done on iOS or Android.
If Apple wants to avoid becoming a niche player again they will have to rethink their strategy. It is a platform war and the platform with the biggest install base always win. And this is the kind of winning that Eric Schmidt was referring to, not who makes the most money but who will have the biggest pie. Google has the deep pockets to invest in this venture for the long haul until the market conditions are in their favor. Google is basically printing money from its advertizing unit and this revenue stream is not in jeopardy. So we'll see in 3-5 years who was right...
Originally Posted by replicant
- Nothing last forever in the tech industry. It's not feasible.
That's why I said what I said the way I said it.
- Your stats are true for now but that will change as more users move to Android.
Well, that hasn't been true for the last four years, so there's no reason for me to believe it's going to change.
Developers don't care about Android. More channel-stuffing without users actually using the product won't change that.
And this number will accelerate when the best apps are developed for android first…
Your "when" here has no hinting of it happening at any time.
…and the whole mobile apps ecosystem migrates to Android just because of the sheer volume of users.
Again, they'll have to actually be using the OS first.
By "educating" I am talking about Apple as an engine that encourages a new purchasing behaviour.
And since this has been encouraged for over four years and it's still trending heavily toward iOS…
If Apple wants to avoid becoming a niche player again they will have to rethink their strategy.
Why? They have all the money. They have all the quality. And they have the devices that are actually being used.
It is a platform war and the platform with the biggest install base always win.
So Apple has lost computers. They should have given up 20 years ago.
And this is the kind of winning that Eric Schmidt was referring to, not who makes the most money but who will have the biggest pie.
How can you afford pie—or any food—when you have no money?
Google is basically printing money from its advertising unit…
Does that matter when they're bleeding it from all other units?
So we'll see in 3-5 years who was right...
Didn't people say this about Android in 2009?
hmm, I thought I was replying to someone else's comment; not to the article.
Excellent post. Google really needs to wrap it's hands around how updates are pushed out to the various different phones. I feel that's what's missing is a consistent "feel" of the OS from phone to phone.
I love the iOS but I do not like the new iPhone hardware. If I could get iOS on my Samsung S3 I would be in heaven!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
iOS isn't "training wheels".
I know what you're saying here, but I also appreciate replicant's point, and I think what s/he's suggesting may be closer to the truth than we're willing to believe. Android users used to be a niche demographic. I think people are starting to see it as a viable and much less expensive alternative. Even my wife recently complained that she has to pay for an app that's free on Android. You and I know it's worth it, but I don't think MOST people see it that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
How can you afford pie—or any food—when you have no money?
Google doesn't make their money selling phones or apps. They sell YOU AND ME -- our habits, preferences and interests -- and it seems they've been doing a pretty good job of it. They don't need to make money on the OS because it's just another data mining tentacle feeding into the part of the machine that DOES make money.