Thank you. I wish he would get a smackdown. He's an embarrassment to decent global citizens, some of whom are actually Americans.
You're an embarrassment to this forum, as you've been calling for my banning for years now, and you have a habit of commenting about me, and not about the topic at all. You should get a smackdown for derailing a thread.
Regarding point number two, let me clarify. In Europe, I paid 789 Euros for a 32GB iPhone 5, whereas it costs 749 Dollars in the US. The European price is therefore about 1026 Dollars. I'd be really curious to see how many of those Apple would sell in the US at that rate. It's just crazy.
And in Germany, the Galaxy S4 released at 650 € without LTE (I think) and in the US at $625 and that included LTE.
Either way, how about you provide a concrete example of how much said iPhone model costs an average US customer in comparison? That would actually be useful over just shooting remarks.
You began, so don't begin whining now.
As for the tax cost, it depends on the particular state where somebody lives, as tax rates are different from state to state.
It's almost 9% in my state, so that actually adds a bit of cost to the initial price of the phone.
You're racist, for imagining racism where there is none.
I discriminate against all Fandroids equally, regardless of skin color.
Your blanket discrimination against all Fandroids regardless of color, IQ, income-bracket, and basement location does break the monotony at times and gives me a chuckle, I will admit to that.
But nothing you say is any different than any other large service provider from Amazon, Google to MS. It is true that each country requires its own deals but there is no question Apple is leading this charge and is, on the whole, WAY ahead of its nearest competitor (from 9 months back: http://www.macstories.net/stories/mapping-the-entertainment-ecosystems-of-apple-microsoft-google-amazon/). And yes, doing business in the EU costs substantially more than in the US. The EU gets a pretty darn good VAT tax (don't forget to add 5%-7% sales tax on US prices not shown) as well as a substantially higher warrantee cost. Even the Galaxy S4 (when released) costs more in Germany in Euros than the US in Dollars.
Thanks for the link, very interesting. I wasn't aware of the differences to Apple's competition to be honest, since I don't use any of their services. Clearly they seem to fare pretty well in comparison. However, as an EU customer I can safely say that I wish we'd have the same or a similar level of service US customers have.
Regarding S4 prices, you might be right, however also compare the difference in subsidies. Samsung and Android phones in general seem to be much more affordable on contract than iPhones.
However, I also believe Apple got a bit of a problem with brand perception in Europe. They don't seem able to clearly deliver the message about why they are better than their competition.
That's almost double Samsung's share! Screw Samsung, and screw Android!
Other phone makers can tout their market share in crappy countries and places that don't matter. Even Blackberry, which is a complete disaster, claims to do good in the middle east and other third world places that don't really matter at all. I mean, who really gives a crap if your phone is selling well in Somalia? That's nothing that I would want to boast about. It's not a good sign if your phone is only selling to third world people, as that is not exactly a lucrative market. It doesn't get much more bottom of the barrel than that!
The bottom line is that Apple is kicking ass in the US, and the iPhone continues to remain supreme, and will continue to do so in the future also.
And no, Apple does not need to make cheap, crappy phones for undesirable customers with no money. Those kind of phones already exist. That's what Android, Symbian, Blackberry and others are for.
lol, some Americans are so full of it. Maybe that's why they travel with Canadian flags on there backpack.
As for the tax cost, it depends on the particular state where somebody lives, as tax rates are different from state to state.
It's almost 9% in my state, so that actually adds a bit of cost to the initial price of the phone.
Haha, I did indeed begin, however your statement was kind of ignorant, I stand by that.
Anyway, so let's add 9% to the US price, which is about $67 and the iPhone price goes up to $816. That's still a difference of more than $200 to European prices.
It is, so what's that to AI's international Apple devices owners who want the app ecosystem to do well where they are?
Strawman. Nobody HAS EVER ARGUED FOR SOMALIA. We talk about China, India, Europe, and South America where Apple can do better.
Americans need to get over their assumed position in the world. Western Europe has been as rich as America for decades now - present difficulties exist on both sides of the pond, and the BRICS have a growing middle class which needs to be captured. I am thoroughly sick of making this argument.
In any case this guy Apple[] also said "Other phone makers can tout their market share in crappy countries and places that don't matter. " and he clearly means anywhere not America.
I would argue winning the US in the software and services market is, by far, the first prize. Even then, however, Apple is doing very well in the EU regions:
Showing only minor downward trend during Android's explosive growth and holding pretty steady in usage in the past 7 months. I am much more interested in USAGE patterns than unit share since unit share without ownership is meaningless. I find it interesting Android is trending down in the EU while WP8 is showing very strong growth. In a growing market Apple is holding steady and this is very impressive given the competition dynamics and EU economics.
Apple is dead in South America and almost so in India (where Java based Series 40 phones still rule). In China, Apple needs China Mobile but is doing very well without them all things considered. They capture about 20% of the mobile web usage where a premium product is a hard sale. I would expect that to jump to about 40% if Apple can ever sign China Mobile. It takes decades to set up international distribution outlets and in this area, incumbents like Samsung, LG, Sony and HTC have a strong competitive advantage. I am amazed Apple has done so well.
And yes, "Apple II" is over the top but "crappy countries" is definitely referring to undeveloped nations.
Apple spent 2012 expanding the iTunes Store to more countries. Apple will continue to methodically increase distribution of the iPhone as it has here in the US. No point in expanding it too quickly as Apple would then be unable to meet demand.
2014 will be about network expansion to China mobile and more international networks to accommodate the demand for iDevices that the iTunes Store generates. Sure and steady wins this race.
Android with its crappy maleware ridden OS will start to feel pressure from Firefox OS on the low end and Apples relentless advance on the higher end. Samsung and Google will race to see who can stab who in the back faster (simply too much incentive to screw one another going forward).
Very true and very sad indeed. However, this will be no easy task for Apple and that's not entirely their fault. They just need to step up, especially when it comes to their ecosystem.
Europe consists of many (in comparison to the US) small countries, all with their own governments, regulation authorities, etc. Therefore it is extremely difficult to roll out services such as Movies, TV Shows, rentals related to such, etc in all of those countries, because separate negotiations need to take place. This seems cost and time intensive and I'm not even sure Apple is still pursuing this, as you still got many countries apart from the major ones such as UK, France, Germany where essential services are missing.
Add to this the fact that other popular services such as Netflix are not available in Europe either (ok, they are now in the UK) and as such offerings such as the Apple TV are extremely unattractive over there. The lack of iTunes Radio in Europe is just another example of this.
Percentage of world population with access to music in each ecosystem, respectively:
Percentage of world population with access to movies in each ecosystem, respectively:
Percentage of world population with access (to each ecosystem respectively):
Thanks for the graphic.
Yes, it's all nice and fine but those numbers are very general. Sure, lots of people can access the iTunes Music Store and the App Store. And both are fantastic. However, other services such as Movies and TV Shows, rentals, etc are still a major problem in many countries. That's what I meant in saying that it will still take a lot of time and effort to bring those services to many European markets.
I am an European with strong ties to US and Canada and have a Norwegian subscription iPhone 5, an ATT iPhone 4 (Company issued), a dumbphone US at ATT (my cost), and my youngest son and wife have a Canadian dumbphone each (Samsung, hate to say that, at Rogers) and an Erichson each (Android; aways screws up the blutooth in my car to the point that I have to turn over and turn off ignition to reset the d.... system), which incredibly enough never happens on my 6 years old Windows Mobile HTC.
Well I guess you can say I have some experience with phones and carriers. Regarding phones, well in my opinion there is not much choice if you want quality, but costwise it obviously is about the cost of the service, and here is my opinion:
The bottom line is that Apple is kicking ass in the US, and the iPhone continues to remain supreme, and will continue to do so in the future also.
Yep, the iPhone "sells" well anywhere that there are subsidies (or other incentives) to cover most of its price.
So yes, the US is an especially important market for Apple, as almost 1/4 of their iPhone sales come from there. (Only about 1/20 of Samsung's smartphone sales do.)
No, but Apple needs to get three things in order in Europe:
1.) Work with carries in order to ensure better subsidy rates, similar to the US ones.
2.) Stop screwing European customers over and charge appropriate prices, similar to US ones.
3.) Ensure you got an attractive ecosystem within iTunes in all European countries.
Regarding point number two, let me clarify. In Europe, I paid 789 Euros for a 32GB iPhone 5, whereas it costs 749 Dollars in the US. The European price is therefore about 1026 Dollars. I'd be really curious to see how many of those Apple would sell in the US at that rate. It's just crazy.
Thanks for the link, very interesting. I wasn't aware of the differences to Apple's competition to be honest, since I don't use any of their services. Clearly they seem to fare pretty well in comparison. However, as an EU customer I can safely say that I wish we'd have the same or a similar level of service US customers have.
Regarding S4 prices, you might be right, however also compare the difference in subsidies. Samsung and Android phones in general seem to be much more affordable on contract than iPhones.
However, I also believe Apple got a bit of a problem with brand perception in Europe. They don't seem able to clearly deliver the message about why they are better than their competition.
Honestly, I just can't follow you. You seem to be saying all these things about what Apple must do to court European consumers. You don't really understand Apple. They make the best products they know how without cutting the corners the way their competitors do while turning a sustainable profit to continue to exist and make more great products at enormous scale and efficiency. They build out retail stores and make carrier agreements to get those phones into the hands of as many consumers in as many markets as can sustain those purchases. If those consumers try the device and like it, they'll buy it. If they do not try it, well what more should Apple do? If they do try the device and like it, they'll buy it. Really, WHO CARES? Does Paul Smith shout from the rooftops about why his shirts are better at $250 each, as opposed to a shirt from the GAP that costs $30? Should he? I argue no on both counts. You can either feel the difference in quality and can afford it or you can feel the difference and do not care, or you cannot eel the difference and can't afford it, or whatever. No one can make you value another product and Apple does not try too hard to convince folks.
If Europeans or Americans or anyone else cannot tell for themselves that there is an appreciable difference or doesn't appreciate that difference, Apple doesn't much care. You (they) are not their target market. Period. Again, I don't think it's Apple (but I don't know anything about their European marketing efforts). What I do know is that if Europeans buy lower build quality phones with more malware, less customer support, a less robust ecosystem, poorer update schedules and less resale value, then it's their problem, bad judgement, poor taste, what have you (and not Apple's problem). Apple is not trying to be all things to all people.
Having said all that, I think they will address these markets with a ~$400 unsubsidized iPhone. But guess what, then you'll have folks that'll wonder why they can't make a $200 iPhone. That is what is called a race to the bottom, which you should know will only result in a corporate death spiral.
Having said all that, I think they will address these markets with a ~$400 unsubsidized iPhone. But guess what, then you'll have folks that'll wonder why they can't make a $200 iPhone. That is what is called a race to the bottom, which you should know will only result in a corporate death spiral.
In some ways this is like opening up Pandora's box. Perhaps why Apple hasn't done it yet. Also we know Apple won't do crap and its hard to do nice on the cheap.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
Thank you. I wish he would get a smackdown. He's an embarrassment to decent global citizens, some of whom are actually Americans.
You're an embarrassment to this forum, as you've been calling for my banning for years now, and you have a habit of commenting about me, and not about the topic at all. You should get a smackdown for derailing a thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic
Regarding point number two, let me clarify. In Europe, I paid 789 Euros for a 32GB iPhone 5, whereas it costs 749 Dollars in the US. The European price is therefore about 1026 Dollars. I'd be really curious to see how many of those Apple would sell in the US at that rate. It's just crazy.
And in Germany, the Galaxy S4 released at 650 € without LTE (I think) and in the US at $625 and that included LTE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic
Yea, keep those attacks coming...
Either way, how about you provide a concrete example of how much said iPhone model costs an average US customer in comparison? That would actually be useful over just shooting remarks.
You began, so don't begin whining now.
As for the tax cost, it depends on the particular state where somebody lives, as tax rates are different from state to state.
It's almost 9% in my state, so that actually adds a bit of cost to the initial price of the phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
You're racist, for imagining racism where there is none.
I discriminate against all Fandroids equally, regardless of skin color.
Your blanket discrimination against all Fandroids regardless of color, IQ, income-bracket, and basement location does break the monotony at times and gives me a chuckle, I will admit to that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N.
But nothing you say is any different than any other large service provider from Amazon, Google to MS. It is true that each country requires its own deals but there is no question Apple is leading this charge and is, on the whole, WAY ahead of its nearest competitor (from 9 months back: http://www.macstories.net/stories/mapping-the-entertainment-ecosystems-of-apple-microsoft-google-amazon/). And yes, doing business in the EU costs substantially more than in the US. The EU gets a pretty darn good VAT tax (don't forget to add 5%-7% sales tax on US prices not shown) as well as a substantially higher warrantee cost. Even the Galaxy S4 (when released) costs more in Germany in Euros than the US in Dollars.
Thanks for the link, very interesting. I wasn't aware of the differences to Apple's competition to be honest, since I don't use any of their services. Clearly they seem to fare pretty well in comparison. However, as an EU customer I can safely say that I wish we'd have the same or a similar level of service US customers have.
Regarding S4 prices, you might be right, however also compare the difference in subsidies. Samsung and Android phones in general seem to be much more affordable on contract than iPhones.
However, I also believe Apple got a bit of a problem with brand perception in Europe. They don't seem able to clearly deliver the message about why they are better than their competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
That's almost double Samsung's share! Screw Samsung, and screw Android!
Other phone makers can tout their market share in crappy countries and places that don't matter. Even Blackberry, which is a complete disaster, claims to do good in the middle east and other third world places that don't really matter at all. I mean, who really gives a crap if your phone is selling well in Somalia? That's nothing that I would want to boast about. It's not a good sign if your phone is only selling to third world people, as that is not exactly a lucrative market. It doesn't get much more bottom of the barrel than that!
The bottom line is that Apple is kicking ass in the US, and the iPhone continues to remain supreme, and will continue to do so in the future also.
And no, Apple does not need to make cheap, crappy phones for undesirable customers with no money. Those kind of phones already exist. That's what Android, Symbian, Blackberry and others are for.
lol, some Americans are so full of it. Maybe that's why they travel with Canadian flags on there backpack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
You began, so don't begin whining now.
As for the tax cost, it depends on the particular state where somebody lives, as tax rates are different from state to state.
It's almost 9% in my state, so that actually adds a bit of cost to the initial price of the phone.
Haha, I did indeed begin, however your statement was kind of ignorant, I stand by that.
Anyway, so let's add 9% to the US price, which is about $67 and the iPhone price goes up to $816. That's still a difference of more than $200 to European prices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
It is, so what's that to AI's international Apple devices owners who want the app ecosystem to do well where they are?
Strawman. Nobody HAS EVER ARGUED FOR SOMALIA. We talk about China, India, Europe, and South America where Apple can do better.
Americans need to get over their assumed position in the world. Western Europe has been as rich as America for decades now - present difficulties exist on both sides of the pond, and the BRICS have a growing middle class which needs to be captured. I am thoroughly sick of making this argument.
In any case this guy Apple[] also said "Other phone makers can tout their market share in crappy countries and places that don't matter. " and he clearly means anywhere not America.
I would argue winning the US in the software and services market is, by far, the first prize. Even then, however, Apple is doing very well in the EU regions:
http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-eu-monthly-201205-201306
Showing only minor downward trend during Android's explosive growth and holding pretty steady in usage in the past 7 months. I am much more interested in USAGE patterns than unit share since unit share without ownership is meaningless. I find it interesting Android is trending down in the EU while WP8 is showing very strong growth. In a growing market Apple is holding steady and this is very impressive given the competition dynamics and EU economics.
Apple is dead in South America and almost so in India (where Java based Series 40 phones still rule). In China, Apple needs China Mobile but is doing very well without them all things considered. They capture about 20% of the mobile web usage where a premium product is a hard sale. I would expect that to jump to about 40% if Apple can ever sign China Mobile. It takes decades to set up international distribution outlets and in this area, incumbents like Samsung, LG, Sony and HTC have a strong competitive advantage. I am amazed Apple has done so well.
And yes, "Apple II" is over the top but "crappy countries" is definitely referring to undeveloped nations.
2014 will be about network expansion to China mobile and more international networks to accommodate the demand for iDevices that the iTunes Store generates. Sure and steady wins this race.
Android with its crappy maleware ridden OS will start to feel pressure from Firefox OS on the low end and Apples relentless advance on the higher end. Samsung and Google will race to see who can stab who in the back faster (simply too much incentive to screw one another going forward).
Percentage of world population with access to music in each ecosystem, respectively:
Percentage of world population with access to movies in each ecosystem, respectively:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
Percentage of world population with access (to each ecosystem respectively):
Thanks for the graphic.
Yes, it's all nice and fine but those numbers are very general. Sure, lots of people can access the iTunes Music Store and the App Store. And both are fantastic. However, other services such as Movies and TV Shows, rentals, etc are still a major problem in many countries. That's what I meant in saying that it will still take a lot of time and effort to bring those services to many European markets.
Who cares about the cost of the phone?
I am an European with strong ties to US and Canada and have a Norwegian subscription iPhone 5, an ATT iPhone 4 (Company issued), a dumbphone US at ATT (my cost), and my youngest son and wife have a Canadian dumbphone each (Samsung, hate to say that, at Rogers) and an Erichson each (Android; aways screws up the blutooth in my car to the point that I have to turn over and turn off ignition to reset the d.... system), which incredibly enough never happens on my 6 years old Windows Mobile HTC.
Well I guess you can say I have some experience with phones and carriers. Regarding phones, well in my opinion there is not much choice if you want quality, but costwise it obviously is about the cost of the service, and here is my opinion:
Europe: White collar crime, but getting better
US: Highway robbery
Canada: Organized crime
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
The bottom line is that Apple is kicking ass in the US, and the iPhone continues to remain supreme, and will continue to do so in the future also.
Yep, the iPhone "sells" well anywhere that there are subsidies (or other incentives) to cover most of its price.
So yes, the US is an especially important market for Apple, as almost 1/4 of their iPhone sales come from there. (Only about 1/20 of Samsung's smartphone sales do.)
Don't forget jumbotron-size screens.
Unless his post edit included said image, he already posted an image that answers your question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic
Thanks for the link, very interesting. I wasn't aware of the differences to Apple's competition to be honest, since I don't use any of their services. Clearly they seem to fare pretty well in comparison. However, as an EU customer I can safely say that I wish we'd have the same or a similar level of service US customers have.
Regarding S4 prices, you might be right, however also compare the difference in subsidies. Samsung and Android phones in general seem to be much more affordable on contract than iPhones.
However, I also believe Apple got a bit of a problem with brand perception in Europe. They don't seem able to clearly deliver the message about why they are better than their competition.
Honestly, I just can't follow you. You seem to be saying all these things about what Apple must do to court European consumers. You don't really understand Apple. They make the best products they know how without cutting the corners the way their competitors do while turning a sustainable profit to continue to exist and make more great products at enormous scale and efficiency. They build out retail stores and make carrier agreements to get those phones into the hands of as many consumers in as many markets as can sustain those purchases. If those consumers try the device and like it, they'll buy it. If they do not try it, well what more should Apple do? If they do try the device and like it, they'll buy it. Really, WHO CARES? Does Paul Smith shout from the rooftops about why his shirts are better at $250 each, as opposed to a shirt from the GAP that costs $30? Should he? I argue no on both counts. You can either feel the difference in quality and can afford it or you can feel the difference and do not care, or you cannot eel the difference and can't afford it, or whatever. No one can make you value another product and Apple does not try too hard to convince folks.
If Europeans or Americans or anyone else cannot tell for themselves that there is an appreciable difference or doesn't appreciate that difference, Apple doesn't much care. You (they) are not their target market. Period. Again, I don't think it's Apple (but I don't know anything about their European marketing efforts). What I do know is that if Europeans buy lower build quality phones with more malware, less customer support, a less robust ecosystem, poorer update schedules and less resale value, then it's their problem, bad judgement, poor taste, what have you (and not Apple's problem). Apple is not trying to be all things to all people.
Having said all that, I think they will address these markets with a ~$400 unsubsidized iPhone. But guess what, then you'll have folks that'll wonder why they can't make a $200 iPhone. That is what is called a race to the bottom, which you should know will only result in a corporate death spiral.