<strong>Nope, Amorph, that's simply for upgrading your $100/yr subscription.
Note the top of that particular answer:
But once you become a full .Mac member, you can upgrade both your Mac.com Email and your iDisk storage. You can also purchase up to ten additional email accounts.
Apple is certainly happy to let you pay more than $100.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well geez.
My phone company doesn't have a problem charging me
$24 per year for the RIGHT to NOT have my name published for telemarketers to savage me.
$72 per year for voicemail
$60 per year for callerid
My internet company has no problem charging me
$500 per year for internet access.
Point is. Goods and Services are usually associated with a cost. The internet and dot.coms tried to foster a new mentality that Goods and Services need not cost anything and we now know that to be foolish.
Apple must do what they can to push the platform forward. I know that stuff like this my Mother eats up without blinking an eye and I consider her to be an avg user.
Just my 2 cents here, I never thought of iTools as being free.
I'm paying a premium, and a pretty substantial one depending on which Mac I have, and iTools was one of the befefits of spending all of that money.
I'm not whining, just posting my thoughts on it. (I know I'll be plunking down my money for it anyway, so what's the point? )
That being said, I'm not too upset (after thinking it over a little) about the fees. Even at $100 (which isn't the price for another 13 months anyway) it's a pretty useful group of services.
I wonder if it's possible to get some figures on Apple's server useage, costs, etc from providing iTools. I'm sure no one will ever know for sure, but it would be interesting... if people are using multiple accounts like we think they are (hell, even if they're not), their fees might be so freakin' high that they have to start charging.
Actually, I'd like to see a comparison of iTools accounts to Macs sold (outside of education). I'm sure it's at least 3 to 1. I have a couple iTools accounts, and most people probably have a hell of alot more than that.
Times are changing, people are going to have to get used to paying for things that used to be free, I'm afraid.
Some of you crack me up. Hardcore. Apple is a BUSINESS, not a charity. NO ONE anywhere owes you ANYTHING - especially a service that makes life easier for FREE. I will pay for it if I want it, and shame on many of you for wanting something for nothing...
Like Steveo says "Don't Steal Music" - well also, "don't reduce the bottom line by giving somethin' for nothin'"
At some point, we all have to realize we are only entitled to ONE THING, our opinion, and nothing more. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Don't you think that 20MB webspace, no traffic limit, my own internationally registered domain name, unlimited number of pop email accounts ,cgi and perl support cost me 20.- less than .mac would cost me?
Yeah, <a href="http://www.g-news.ch"; target="_blank">www.g-news.ch</a> costs less than a .mac email address.
Pathetic.
G-News
PS: that same provider also offers FREE pop email accounts of which every account comes with a 20MB homepage on really fast servers, for free.
I'm not thrilled at the prospect of paying for .mac, since I seldom use anything except the mac.com mail, but:
Would it have been better if Apple had rolled out iTools for the first time today, and priced it at $100? What I mean is, are we just mad because we've had iTools for free? If I had never used iTools I wouldn't even care about .mac or what it cost, it's not something I'd use.
Anyway, I think Apple is stupid to not offer a free year with a new Mac. How many people are going to spend another $100 after getting their $2,000 iMac home? Probably a lot fewer than would sign up for a free year and then keep it because it's too much hassle to change.
Because you've purchased extra iDisk storage for your iTools account, we have the pleasure of letting you know that you've automatically been credited with a full year of .Mac membership. In addition to the benefits you're already enjoying from your additional iDisk storage, your new .Mac membership provides:
[quote]Apple must do what they can to push the platform forward. I know that stuff like this my Mother eats up without blinking an eye and I consider her to be an avg user.<hr></blockquote>
I think everyone understands that Apple providing e-mail and iDisk space wasn't free for them. No one thought it was free for them.
Here's the problem:
Apple offered a free service to those who bought their expensive computers. Users came to depend on this service and Apple is going to take it away entirely unless the users pay $100 a year.
No option to pay less to keep only the mac.com POP e-mail.
No option to pay less to keep the 10MB iDisk.
One option, $100 or nothing.
$8.30/mth for what?
A POP e-mail account.
Anti-virus software. (Crappy anti-virus software at that)
A backup application. (Yet-to-be-seen, guaranteed to be not worth $50 as quoted on their site)
Webhosting
100MB online storage.
Now, standing alone that might be fine. If Apple hadn't had iTools before this and came out and said, "All right, completely new thing. Internet services, $100/yr, here you go."
But that's not what happened. Apple offered the only attractive parts (iDisk, e-mail & hosting) for free to get people used to using them and is now going to take them away unless we pay too much for stuff that we don't want.
I'll pay $15/year for a mac.com POP e-mail address with 10MB storage. But damned if I pay $100/year for some crappy anti-virus and backup software to keep the e-mail address that Apple GAVE ME a year and a half ago. Hotmail charges for POP access, yeah, but you can check it on their webpage still for free. Not so with Apple, they are just taking it away completely unless you pay.
They knew this was coming, it's not like they just now realized that this costs money.
I am pissed off over this announcement also. However, I do not wish to post a flaming post in this thread. I can flame Apple with rational intelligence. My first reaction was shock that was quickly moving to anger. Then I thought about it, and I must say I am still angry. From my reaction and the common reaction of people in this thread (mainly Mac fanatics), I think Apple has made a poor choice. It will hurt the beginning of what could be a wonderful new service. If they kept my e-mail address and 20 MB of webspace, I would be willing to wait to see if I wanted to pay for added services. Now, I am of a mind-set where I do not want to pay them even if the services are amazing. I know this idea is childish in many ways, but Mac users are sticking with Apple. We just went through a completely revised system upgrade. It will be great in the long term, but I think most users had at least one difficult situation during the transition (people who have moved to OS X). I did not mind, and I am always on the cutting edge, waiting to see what comes next to try it out myself. However, I would like it to have been more polished March 24th. I would not say it was a beta product by offical definitions, but it was a bit of a let-down to a product dubbed state-of-the-art. Microsoft had to help Apple with over 70 bugs? I need not say more on this issue...
Now if Apple says it will be starting .Mac, the service will be 100.00 a year, but current users can hold the basic options (an e-mail account, basic web space, etc). No one would be pissed off (or have an excuse to be that way...). Everyone would be supportive to tenatively supportive. It would not cost Apple anymore than it is currently to maintain the same thing (I hope I do not have to explain this logic...but the same should be the same...right?). People who have upgraded thier space already might pay for the service (might be cheaper than an expanded iDisk for many people). People would start to use it or not. However, it would not be hated from day one. It would not cause many Mac users to want to blackball it immediately (perhaps to never look again). I am writing Apple. I will say the same logic in better grammer and wording, and I will hope it has an effect before Sept 30th. Otherwise, I am leaving iTools/.Mac. I am sorry Apple, but this practice is bad sense and bad business. I hope many other users and all of the people who complain in this thread join me in my feabile attempt to persuade Apple with common sense, business, and loyalty issues.
thank-you *sighs* I hope this works out for US...the current users...the ones who try so hard to love Apple
We do appreciate the free software. We do appreciate the excellent platform. It is all wonderful, and we all know why we love it. I think many agree this move pushes us too far.
Yeesh. The Mac is for creative types. Do we expect creative folks to render their wares for nothing?
Apple are a business.
.Mac for virus protection, hosting, e:mail, back up protection etc for what? £70? Seems like a good deal over the course of a year.
No adds. No pop ups. It's fair.
It generates revenue for Apple. Heck M$ are up to it. After the balance sheet Apple just had...I think they're gonna get with the real world too. Things cost money.
10.1 fixed 10.04 whatever. Jaguar is a full update. M$ charge big bucks for their OS. Apple charge a fair price for what is a stunning upgrade!
.Mac is far better value for money than the current 'power'Macs!
yep, i may not be officially boycotting, but i can't roll out enough cash to pay for my, my wife's, and another mac.com accounts. heck, i already own anti-viral software, and retrospect express, so my $99 pays for idisk, homepage and email. but i don't even need much of that.
why can't there be a light version?!?! one email address, 10 mb of space, homepage with a few templates (or templates-only hosting), and be able to send an icard once in a while.
and lemon, c'mon. sure we've got plenty of free iapps, until apple decide to charge for them, once we've gotten accustomed to them.
so the free internet age is at an end. so we bear the brunt of poor long-term planning? great. makes me feel better already.
and lemon, i would say you are FAR outnumbered in your feelings about .mac so far in this thread, and just about every other thread and message board i can find anywhere on the subject.
that's all i, and i would assume most people, would need.
<strong>Why does anyone think that they should get anything for free? Where in the world has that concept ever worked?
You must realize by now that all the free things on the internet are lost-leaders. Get serious -- whining about loosing your free e-mail?????</strong><hr></blockquote>
because it was promised for free, and now, once everyone has been using it as a switch selling point, it's now gone. it is NOT that same thing as whining about getting something for free.
i am one of the most vocal supporters of apple, but i think this stinks. i'm not abandoning the platform or anything, but i think it's a bad decision, especially since they need allt he happy warm feelings and customer loyalty they can get these days.
You can get e-mail online for free. You may have to pay for POP mail on some systems, but you do not on all of them. You can get 50MB of storage for free online at Angelfire.com. It does not have the cool iDisk and Homepage features, but those features are developed now. I understand paying for MORE services. I understand paying for MORE space. ETC ETC However, I do not like Apple forcing the choice. I already have Comcast cable with seven e-mail accounts and 20 MB of space. I can use Angelfire for the remainding items I need for free. Whatever Apple...I do not know what services you are quoting...but such little things online are still FREE Offer more...ask us to pay... I think that is fine. Pay or else? I do not take threats or ultimatums very well....sorry....
OK...I did vent after all....I feel better now :-D
[quote]I understand it was basically impossible to offer a free service users wouldn't abuse, so a subscription model was necessary. I have two slight problems with the current arrangement though. There are some users that just want an e-mail address and a very small iDisk, like what was offered for free before. I'm sure these people would be willing to pay ~$29 for this service. It would not offer the a la carte upgrade options other than an upgrade to the full subscription...
Speaking of the full subscription, $99 a year is just too much. $49-$69 a year would be much more reasonable, don't you think?<hr></blockquote>
I'm sorry Rok that you're having a hard time coming to terms with the real world. I think it'll be a nice premium service to sell to switchers in Apple stores.
Y'know...like 'extended warranties'
Out numbered? Well, people do like a free lunch. Certainly, those 2 million subscribers will fall away dramatically. But many will bend over and take it.
We pay for 'bottled', sorry, 'Mineral' water don't we?
I, on the other hand, am in no position to pay for this even if I would like to. You people complaining at the whiners for not looking at the "reality" of times ought to reflect upon the fact that perhaps they are: reflecting upon the reality of their own financial situations.
I'm sorry Rok that you're having a hard time coming to terms with the real world. I think it'll be a nice premium service to sell to switchers in Apple stores.
Y'know...like 'extended warranties'
Out numbered? Well, people do like a free lunch. Certainly, those 2 million subscribers will fall away dramatically. But many will bend over and take it.
We pay for 'bottled', sorry, 'Mineral' water don't we?
Lemon Bon Bon</strong><hr></blockquote>
that "real world" comment was a cheap shot, and i know a free lunch doesn't last forever. my fault for thinking that appel could stick to its guns regardless.
no, i don't pay for mineral water. i buy a brita pitcher, 'cause its a way better value. and i think i said i support a tiered system that's geared to what people need, too. i'm not totally unreasonable. premiums are fine, but i guess that i feel that at least one free email account these days is a damn-near right when you spend so much on isp's and operating systems and hardware already.
i guess i'll fix all of this once i get my web server and email server running from my mac one of these days. whenever i get the time.
also, from a pr standpoint, this hurts, and you can't deny that. now anything that is "free" that apple offers can suddenly turn not-so-free in the future. and now customers know that apple is not immune to that.
Comments
<strong>Nope, Amorph, that's simply for upgrading your $100/yr subscription.
Note the top of that particular answer:
But once you become a full .Mac member, you can upgrade both your Mac.com Email and your iDisk storage. You can also purchase up to ten additional email accounts.
Apple is certainly happy to let you pay more than $100.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well geez.
My phone company doesn't have a problem charging me
$24 per year for the RIGHT to NOT have my name published for telemarketers to savage me.
$72 per year for voicemail
$60 per year for callerid
My internet company has no problem charging me
$500 per year for internet access.
Point is. Goods and Services are usually associated with a cost. The internet and dot.coms tried to foster a new mentality that Goods and Services need not cost anything and we now know that to be foolish.
Apple must do what they can to push the platform forward. I know that stuff like this my Mother eats up without blinking an eye and I consider her to be an avg user.
I'm paying a premium, and a pretty substantial one depending on which Mac I have, and iTools was one of the befefits of spending all of that money.
I'm not whining, just posting my thoughts on it. (I know I'll be plunking down my money for it anyway, so what's the point?
That being said, I'm not too upset (after thinking it over a little) about the fees. Even at $100 (which isn't the price for another 13 months anyway) it's a pretty useful group of services.
I wonder if it's possible to get some figures on Apple's server useage, costs, etc from providing iTools. I'm sure no one will ever know for sure, but it would be interesting... if people are using multiple accounts like we think they are (hell, even if they're not), their fees might be so freakin' high that they have to start charging.
Actually, I'd like to see a comparison of iTools accounts to Macs sold (outside of education). I'm sure it's at least 3 to 1. I have a couple iTools accounts, and most people probably have a hell of alot more than that.
Times are changing, people are going to have to get used to paying for things that used to be free, I'm afraid.
[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
Like Steveo says "Don't Steal Music" - well also, "don't reduce the bottom line by giving somethin' for nothin'"
At some point, we all have to realize we are only entitled to ONE THING, our opinion, and nothing more. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<strong>Nope, Amorph, that's simply for upgrading your $100/yr subscription.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's what I said: If you have a .Mac account (i.e., if you've paid the $100), you can buy up to 10 additional email accounts for $10 each.
Yeah, <a href="http://www.g-news.ch"; target="_blank">www.g-news.ch</a> costs less than a .mac email address.
Pathetic.
G-News
PS: that same provider also offers FREE pop email accounts of which every account comes with a 20MB homepage on really fast servers, for free.
They're not out of business either.
[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: G-News ]</p>
Would it have been better if Apple had rolled out iTools for the first time today, and priced it at $100? What I mean is, are we just mad because we've had iTools for free? If I had never used iTools I wouldn't even care about .mac or what it cost, it's not something I'd use.
Anyway, I think Apple is stupid to not offer a free year with a new Mac. How many people are going to spend another $100 after getting their $2,000 iMac home? Probably a lot fewer than would sign up for a free year and then keep it because it's too much hassle to change.
Because you've purchased extra iDisk storage for your iTools account, we have the pleasure of letting you know that you've automatically been credited with a full year of .Mac membership. In addition to the benefits you're already enjoying from your additional iDisk storage, your new .Mac membership provides:
I think everyone understands that Apple providing e-mail and iDisk space wasn't free for them. No one thought it was free for them.
Here's the problem:
Apple offered a free service to those who bought their expensive computers. Users came to depend on this service and Apple is going to take it away entirely unless the users pay $100 a year.
No option to pay less to keep only the mac.com POP e-mail.
No option to pay less to keep the 10MB iDisk.
One option, $100 or nothing.
$8.30/mth for what?
A POP e-mail account.
Anti-virus software. (Crappy anti-virus software at that)
A backup application. (Yet-to-be-seen, guaranteed to be not worth $50 as quoted on their site)
Webhosting
100MB online storage.
Now, standing alone that might be fine. If Apple hadn't had iTools before this and came out and said, "All right, completely new thing. Internet services, $100/yr, here you go."
But that's not what happened. Apple offered the only attractive parts (iDisk, e-mail & hosting) for free to get people used to using them and is now going to take them away unless we pay too much for stuff that we don't want.
I'll pay $15/year for a mac.com POP e-mail address with 10MB storage. But damned if I pay $100/year for some crappy anti-virus and backup software to keep the e-mail address that Apple GAVE ME a year and a half ago. Hotmail charges for POP access, yeah, but you can check it on their webpage still for free. Not so with Apple, they are just taking it away completely unless you pay.
They knew this was coming, it's not like they just now realized that this costs money.
Backup is pretty nifty.
Now if Apple says it will be starting .Mac, the service will be 100.00 a year, but current users can hold the basic options (an e-mail account, basic web space, etc). No one would be pissed off (or have an excuse to be that way...). Everyone would be supportive to tenatively supportive. It would not cost Apple anymore than it is currently to maintain the same thing (I hope I do not have to explain this logic...but the same should be the same...right?). People who have upgraded thier space already might pay for the service (might be cheaper than an expanded iDisk for many people). People would start to use it or not. However, it would not be hated from day one. It would not cause many Mac users to want to blackball it immediately (perhaps to never look again). I am writing Apple. I will say the same logic in better grammer and wording, and I will hope it has an effect before Sept 30th. Otherwise, I am leaving iTools/.Mac. I am sorry Apple, but this practice is bad sense and bad business. I hope many other users and all of the people who complain in this thread join me in my feabile attempt to persuade Apple with common sense, business, and loyalty issues.
thank-you *sighs* I hope this works out for US...the current users...the ones who try so hard to love Apple
We do appreciate the free software. We do appreciate the excellent platform. It is all wonderful, and we all know why we love it. I think many agree this move pushes us too far.
The 'free lunch' internet is coming to an end.
Yeesh. The Mac is for creative types. Do we expect creative folks to render their wares for nothing?
Apple are a business.
.Mac for virus protection, hosting, e:mail, back up protection etc for what? £70? Seems like a good deal over the course of a year.
No adds. No pop ups. It's fair.
It generates revenue for Apple. Heck M$ are up to it. After the balance sheet Apple just had...I think they're gonna get with the real world too. Things cost money.
10.1 fixed 10.04 whatever. Jaguar is a full update. M$ charge big bucks for their OS. Apple charge a fair price for what is a stunning upgrade!
.Mac is far better value for money than the current 'power'Macs!
You've still got plenty of free iapps.
Lemon Bon Bon
why can't there be a light version?!?! one email address, 10 mb of space, homepage with a few templates (or templates-only hosting), and be able to send an icard once in a while.
and lemon, c'mon. sure we've got plenty of free iapps, until apple decide to charge for them, once we've gotten accustomed to them.
so the free internet age is at an end. so we bear the brunt of poor long-term planning? great. makes me feel better already.
and lemon, i would say you are FAR outnumbered in your feelings about .mac so far in this thread, and just about every other thread and message board i can find anywhere on the subject.
that's all i, and i would assume most people, would need.
[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: rok ]</p>
You must realize by now that all the free things on the internet are lost-leaders. Get serious -- whining about loosing your free e-mail?????
<strong>Why does anyone think that they should get anything for free? Where in the world has that concept ever worked?
You must realize by now that all the free things on the internet are lost-leaders. Get serious -- whining about loosing your free e-mail?????</strong><hr></blockquote>
because it was promised for free, and now, once everyone has been using it as a switch selling point, it's now gone. it is NOT that same thing as whining about getting something for free.
i am one of the most vocal supporters of apple, but i think this stinks. i'm not abandoning the platform or anything, but i think it's a bad decision, especially since they need allt he happy warm feelings and customer loyalty they can get these days.
OK...I did vent after all....I feel better now :-D
[quote]I understand it was basically impossible to offer a free service users wouldn't abuse, so a subscription model was necessary. I have two slight problems with the current arrangement though. There are some users that just want an e-mail address and a very small iDisk, like what was offered for free before. I'm sure these people would be willing to pay ~$29 for this service. It would not offer the a la carte upgrade options other than an upgrade to the full subscription...
Speaking of the full subscription, $99 a year is just too much. $49-$69 a year would be much more reasonable, don't you think?<hr></blockquote>
I'm sorry Rok that you're having a hard time coming to terms with the real world. I think it'll be a nice premium service to sell to switchers in Apple stores.
Y'know...like 'extended warranties'
Out numbered? Well, people do like a free lunch. Certainly, those 2 million subscribers will fall away dramatically. But many will bend over and take it.
We pay for 'bottled', sorry, 'Mineral' water don't we?
Lemon Bon Bon
Fair cop. Good feedback. A tiered system. Okay. Budget and ala carte.
A compromise then?
Lemon Bon Bon
<strong>Can't boycott...too late...already paid.
poor taylor obviously isn't very poor!
I, on the other hand, am in no position to pay for this even if I would like to. You people complaining at the whiners for not looking at the "reality" of times ought to reflect upon the fact that perhaps they are: reflecting upon the reality of their own financial situations.
<strong>...and free love
I'm sorry Rok that you're having a hard time coming to terms with the real world. I think it'll be a nice premium service to sell to switchers in Apple stores.
Y'know...like 'extended warranties'
Out numbered? Well, people do like a free lunch. Certainly, those 2 million subscribers will fall away dramatically. But many will bend over and take it.
We pay for 'bottled', sorry, 'Mineral' water don't we?
Lemon Bon Bon</strong><hr></blockquote>
that "real world" comment was a cheap shot, and i know a free lunch doesn't last forever. my fault for thinking that appel could stick to its guns regardless.
no, i don't pay for mineral water. i buy a brita pitcher, 'cause its a way better value. and i think i said i support a tiered system that's geared to what people need, too. i'm not totally unreasonable. premiums are fine, but i guess that i feel that at least one free email account these days is a damn-near right when you spend so much on isp's and operating systems and hardware already.
i guess i'll fix all of this once i get my web server and email server running from my mac one of these days. whenever i get the time.
also, from a pr standpoint, this hurts, and you can't deny that. now anything that is "free" that apple offers can suddenly turn not-so-free in the future. and now customers know that apple is not immune to that.