He may not be wrong that he read it somewhere. He may be wrong about its accuracy tho. Ultraflix alone claims to have more than 500 hours of "4K" content available. This is a good source for those wanting to catch up on what's out there.
Based on this thread, I am thinking that "4K" is the new "CPU clock rate & transistors" spec whore buzz word...
It seems that way. I'm not even going to purchase a 4K TV until the tech is a bit more mature, let alone until there's a decent amount of content available (at decent bit rates). 4K on the iPhone 6S is nice, but it's only around 6MB/s, which is very low.
<span style="line-height:1.4em;">Based on this thread, I am thinking that "4K" is the new "CPU clock rate
It seems that way. I'm not even going to purchase a 4K TV until the tech is a bit more mature, let alone until there's a decent amount of content available (at decent bit rates). <span style="line-height:1.4em;">4K on the iPhone 6S is nice, but it's only around 6MB/s, which is very low.</span>
I think you're wrong!
AFICT, a 4k video encoded in H.265 is about the same file size and uses about the same bandwidth as the same video at 1080p encoded in H.264.
We seem to get by fine with H.264 1080p -- what's the beef with h.265 4k?
And a 1080p video encoded in H.265 takes 1/2 the file size and 1/2 the bandwidth of the same video encoded in H.264 -- and is of equal or better quality when payed on a 1080p-capable screen -- and better quality when displayed ann a 4k-capable screen.
So, it appears that there is no downside for the ATV until the TV displays and Content providers catch up to 4k!
AFICT, a 4k video encoded in H.265 is about the same file size and uses about the same bandwidth as the same video at 1080p encoded in H.264.
We seem to get by fine with H.264 1080p -- what's the beef with h.265 4k?
And a 1080p video encoded in H.265 takes 1/2 the file size and 1/2 the bandwidth of the same video encoded in H.264 -- and is of equal or better quality when payed on a 1080p-capable screen -- and better quality when displayed ann a 4k-capable screen.
So, it appears that there is no downside for the ATV until the TV displays and Content providers catch up to 4k!
Apple is using h264, not h265 on the iPhone - it says on the specs page. The minimum bitrate that broadcasters such as the BBC accept is 50MB/s for 1080p. Hence, 6MB/s for 4K on the iPhone 6S - even at the consumer level - can be said to be low.
"Another interesting detail: 4K videos are being recorded in H.264, and Apple is no longer making reference to H.265 support for any purpose, FaceTime or otherwise."
Possibly due to the upcoming licensing issues with h265 following HEVC Advance's split from MPEG-LA?
Apple is using h264, not h265 on the iPhone - it says on the specs page. The minimum bitrate that broadcasters such as the BBC accept is 50MB/s for 1080p. <span style="line-height:1.4em;">Hence, 6MB/s for 4K on the iPhone 6S - even at the consumer level - can be said to be low.</span>
The fashion and shopping stuff is the clearest sign that Steve is gone. That's something that should have been said "no" to.
Why? One of the main selling points of the Apple TV is a complete home entertaining experience, with capabilities and UX similar to that of other OS devices. Games, movies, music, shopping - just like using a phone or iPad. Shopping/ browsingis is a big source of entertainment for some. It only makes sense to include it.
Ha. I still get them confused, fool is me. The iPhone 6S is recording 4K at approx. 6MB/s, or 48Mb/s - whilst low for 4K is actually reasonable considering the iPhone is a highly portable and consumer-oreinted device. Sony consumer still cameras that shoot 4K are shooting 60-100Mb/s, although the codec might be more efficient/robust in those.
Ha. I still get them confused, fool is me. The iPhone 6S is recording 4K at approx. 6MB/s, or 48Mb/s - whilst low for 4K is actually reasonable considering the iPhone is a highly portable and consumer-oreinted device. Sony consumer still cameras that shoot 4K are shooting 60-100Mb/s, although the codec might be more efficient/robust in those.
No worries, I think most blu-ray's are only around 20 - 30 Mb/s
Oh goodness this soggy dude is everywhere with excuses. The denial is similar to a child who constantly refuses to admit he ate the chocolate chip cookies with chocolate around his mouth.
Where to begin....
"This will be a great product in 5 years!!" This proves everyone else's point. Thanks.
"4k isn't ready for prime time!!!" THEN WHY IN THE F*** DID APPLE INCLUDE A 4K camera in the iPhone?!?!!!!!! Lack of 4K in ?TV was a huge missed opportunity. This just rubs salt into the wound.
"AAA games take YEARS" Nintendo launches every console with a AAA game. NES: Super Mario Bros. GameBoy: Tetris SNES: Mario World N64: Mario 64 GC: Luigi's Mansion DS: Brain Age, Nintendogs Wii: Zelda and Wii Sports Wii U: Pikmin 3
But Apple isn't a game developer. Epic Games was missing this year. Strange. I expected them to be all over this.
"Did you expect it to cure cancer?!?!!!"
Well I predicted the touch interface along with Forcetouch and TouchID for user profiles. I live with roommates and I'm the only one who watches documentaries. When I fire up Netflix, I have to scroll through dozens of reality TV shows and cartoons that I'm sick of. Having all my shows spring up with a touch would have been amazing. I'm sure they would appreciate it also.
I also predicted Siri and A9 chips.
All we got was Siri and a controller you can swipe.
Did I ask for too much? Heck no. This technology exists TODAY. There's no excuse for Apple to treat ?TV as a red headed stepchild.
Other comments I read "What did you expect for $149!!!" No one knew the price before the keynote genius.
"Apps is what's gonna help ?TV. It's what made iPhone and iPad so great." It took iPhone 1 year and iPad 0 days to get third party apps. How long did it take ?TV?
"Eww a shopping app" ....that was a THIRD PARTY app. *facepalm*
"No Apple content/service" I honestly think it's been a tough battle for Apple. I'm good at reading between the lines and the keynote was filled with praise and promotion with those joining the ?TV team. You can almost hear the "see what you're missing? Netflix and Hulu will eat your lunch if you stay in the 80's". Sounded like Apple tried their hardest and are stuck with propelling 3rd parties to hopefully slap content providers over the forehead.
The final verdict?
I like it! But the excuse that it couldn't have been more, lack of A9/TouchID and telling people it'll be great in 2+ years is unacceptable. There were zero killer apps, even the original iPhone had a killer app.
Why wasn't this the final surprise? Why no "one more thing" at the end of the conference? I think the ?TV and iPad pro were bigger reveals than iPhone 6s. Would have been hyped if Tim announced. "There's still 2 MORE THINGS..."
AFICT, a 4k video encoded in H.265 is about the same file size and uses about the same bandwidth as the same video at 1080p encoded in H.264.
We seem to get by fine with H.264 1080p -- what's the beef with h.265 4k?
And a 1080p video encoded in H.265 takes 1/2 the file size and 1/2 the bandwidth of the same video encoded in H.264 -- and is of equal or better quality when payed on a 1080p-capable screen -- and better quality when displayed ann a 4k-capable screen.
So, it appears that there is no downside for the ATV until the TV displays and Content providers catch up to 4k!
Apple is using h264, not h265 on the iPhone - it says on the specs page. The minimum bitrate that broadcasters such as the BBC accept is 50MB/s for 1080p. <span style="line-height:1.4em;">Hence, 6MB/s for 4K on the iPhone 6S - even at the consumer level - can be said to be low.</span>
An interesting snippet from [URL=http:/2015/09/10/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-iphone-6s-6s-plus-apple-tv-4-ipad-pro-ipad-mini-4/]9to5Mac[/URL] today:
"Another interesting detail: 4K videos are being recorded in H.264, and Apple is no longer making reference to H.265 support for any purpose, FaceTime or otherwise."
Possibly due to the upcoming licensing issues with h265 following HEVC Advance's split from MPEG-LA?
As I understand it, Apple has hardware or firmware to encode H.264 on newer iPhone's -- so it does not surprise me that they're currently using this for 4K. I suspect that they'll implement the H.265 encoding algorithms in hardware or firmware at some future date.
As to removing all reference to H.265 -- I think you're right -- that's just part of the negotiation process.
While I still don't see the point of 4K at home or on a tablet/phone (and no one has till now explained why it would actually make sense unlike stating that's being done already) I see the mismatch between the phone doing it and the ATV not doing it. So they clearly chose not to be on the front end of this movement, or at least not yet jump onto that bandwagon.
Second, I agree that there is complete absence of a killer app. Jesus, that frogger demo was just ... Embarrassing. You have the whole world watching and that's all you want to highlight together with a shopping app? Ok, AAA takes time. But until now whenever they wanted they managed to have such a killer app ready by giving early access to selected developers. I was expecting minimum Real Racing 4 demoed using the Siri Remote. Or something where one starts playing something, and others join in using their iPhones or iPod touches. What they showed was lame in comparison and I feel this like a wasted opportunity. To be clear: I'm not sayin this may not come in x time but I would have expected something more impressive that what they showed during the keynote.
Next, I expected - possibly wrongly in the first place - a larger local storage. Always having to stream apps is ... Awkward. But the main pint was the connected expectation to finally get rid of having to use my computers as media streaming and storage device. Clearly, Apple wants you to go cloud only. And I'm not so comfortable with this. I want to see my movies even when I'm downloading something bigger in parallel, and be independent of network quality. So I can carry it on and plug it into a TV wherever I go and it has my favorite (or all) media on it.
The design is also a step back. I just feel the proportions less pleasing. Again, this is purely subjective.
The remote lacks the ability to write. No keyboard but the touch area could be used for handwriting. Here I was to admit that maybe Siri takes care of this. But I'm not sure how well she works with different people using it. And as my household is using more than one language I can foresee - while maybe not part of the masses - it won't work that seamlessly.
Having said this all, I think the ATV is decent. And has potential. I see that not all expectations can be met. Just that after the update being in the pipeline so long I feel Apple missed the chance to make a bigger impression. By lack of features or lack of showing them off.
You have the whole world watching and that's all you want to highlight together with a shopping app?
I agree that the shopping app was not ready for prime time. The low-resolution video stream made it look worse than it was -- the event attendees saw a higher-resolution more-detailed version.
But, that shopping demo was only a hint of what a shopping app can (and will be).
Consider:
You and your friends store their body measurements and sizes on your iPhones and iPads
You take 3D 360-degree images of yourselves
Apple software converts the 3D images into wire meshes that can be animated and fleshed out with your images
All your measurements, sizes, images and meshes are stored on your iPhones and iPads
The shopping site has similar measurements, sizes, 3D images and wire meshes of the products they are selling
Now, through the magic of an AR app running on the AppleTV you and your friends can try on the clothes, move around, see how you look from different angles (check this out), try different styles/colors/sizes --- and ApplePay buy the items.
Same concept for purchasing that new patio set ...
Same concept for for redecorating and refurnishing your living room or man cave ...
Same concept for buying seats at an event ...
Same concept for buying that new car (does this color Beemer go with my eyes / make me look fat?) ...
Apple already has all the tech to do this!
I can't remember where I saw it, but there was a video online that showed a young couple in front of a closed store window -- using AR to try on, model -- then buy clothes.
You have to crawl before you can run. You want everything NOW. You want everything yesterday. It does not work that way in the real world.
But people with VISION see what a huge step this is for Apple. Not just what it its now, but what it will be in the future. So you admit the game changing feature is getting content directly from the broadcasters/cable networks. Fine. But in order to do that Apple needs to GROW THEIR APPLE-TV USER BASE.
Comcast has over 20 million subscribers. DirectTV has over 20 million. Apple will need at least 20 million active AppleTV users to have real leverage in negotiations with the content providers. To do that they need to make an AppleTV that is better than any other box out their and is reasonably priced. And that is EXACTLY what Apple did.
Grow User base.
Gain leverage.
Negotiate TV deals.
Improve hardware.
Repeat.
Yesssss. Boooring... Apple has turned into a provider of operating systems. Like Microsoft in the 90's. That was also all about the "eco-system" of applications (back when people still used words with more than two syllables) provided by developers, allowing them to tie business users to them. That worked very well for MS, very well. And it will work well for Apple. But it is booooooring.
Shall we wager when we will see Cook running around the stage screaming "Developers, developers, developers"?
The only difference between Apple and MS is that Apple builds their own boxes to run the OS, that's probably just a function of the difference in capital allocation preferences.
Apple TV is great, but so is a bog standard PC in the office.
Bottom line is the AppleTV can be as awesome as the App makers make it. Just like the iPhone and iPad.
This is what I'm excited about, I think we'll be seeing some very clever apps come to this little box once the developers start working their magic. Sure, some we sort of expect and make lots of sense, but then we'll get some real gems coming that we never expected, and that's going to be pure joy. The iOS developer community is so large and varied, I think we'll see some very interesting apps for it.
Comments
You are correct, but those films have yet to be converted to the 4K digital format.
plus 21% tax
He may not be wrong that he read it somewhere. He may be wrong about its accuracy tho. Ultraflix alone claims to have more than 500 hours of "4K" content available. This is a good source for those wanting to catch up on what's out there.
http://4k.com/movies/
Note they've only listed a sample of content. Other shows and movies are being added on a regular basis.
And it is still by far a minority of all content provided by online services. Give it another year or two and 4K will be a "must-have".
Based on this thread, I am thinking that "4K" is the new "CPU clock rate & transistors" spec whore buzz word...
It seems that way. I'm not even going to purchase a 4K TV until the tech is a bit more mature, let alone until there's a decent amount of content available (at decent bit rates). 4K on the iPhone 6S is nice, but it's only around 6MB/s, which is very low.
Still no 4k support...
...Apple really needs to step up their game. They've been very unimpressive lately.
1080p does NOT look better on a 4k screen. 1080p is 1080p.
I think you're wrong!
AFICT, a 4k video encoded in H.265 is about the same file size and uses about the same bandwidth as the same video at 1080p encoded in H.264.
We seem to get by fine with H.264 1080p -- what's the beef with h.265 4k?
And a 1080p video encoded in H.265 takes 1/2 the file size and 1/2 the bandwidth of the same video encoded in H.264 -- and is of equal or better quality when payed on a 1080p-capable screen -- and better quality when displayed ann a 4k-capable screen.
So, it appears that there is no downside for the ATV until the TV displays and Content providers catch up to 4k!
I think you're wrong!
AFICT, a 4k video encoded in H.265 is about the same file size and uses about the same bandwidth as the same video at 1080p encoded in H.264.
We seem to get by fine with H.264 1080p -- what's the beef with h.265 4k?
And a 1080p video encoded in H.265 takes 1/2 the file size and 1/2 the bandwidth of the same video encoded in H.264 -- and is of equal or better quality when payed on a 1080p-capable screen -- and better quality when displayed ann a 4k-capable screen.
So, it appears that there is no downside for the ATV until the TV displays and Content providers catch up to 4k!
Apple is using h264, not h265 on the iPhone - it says on the specs page. The minimum bitrate that broadcasters such as the BBC accept is 50MB/s for 1080p. Hence, 6MB/s for 4K on the iPhone 6S - even at the consumer level - can be said to be low.
An interesting snippet from 9to5Mac today:
"Another interesting detail: 4K videos are being recorded in H.264, and Apple is no longer making reference to H.265 support for any purpose, FaceTime or otherwise."
Possibly due to the upcoming licensing issues with h265 following HEVC Advance's split from MPEG-LA?
MB/s or Mb/s. 400Mb/s, and 48Mb/s seems high
Why? One of the main selling points of the Apple TV is a complete home entertaining experience, with capabilities and UX similar to that of other OS devices. Games, movies, music, shopping - just like using a phone or iPad. Shopping/ browsingis is a big source of entertainment for some. It only makes sense to include it.
MB/s or Mb/s. 400Mb/s, and 48Mb/s seems high
Ha. I still get them confused, fool is me. The iPhone 6S is recording 4K at approx. 6MB/s, or 48Mb/s - whilst low for 4K is actually reasonable considering the iPhone is a highly portable and consumer-oreinted device. Sony consumer still cameras that shoot 4K are shooting 60-100Mb/s, although the codec might be more efficient/robust in those.
No worries, I think most blu-ray's are only around 20 - 30 Mb/s
Where to begin....
"This will be a great product in 5 years!!"
This proves everyone else's point. Thanks.
"4k isn't ready for prime time!!!"
THEN WHY IN THE F*** DID APPLE INCLUDE A 4K camera in the iPhone?!?!!!!!!
Lack of 4K in ?TV was a huge missed opportunity. This just rubs salt into the wound.
"AAA games take YEARS"
Nintendo launches every console with a AAA game.
NES: Super Mario Bros.
GameBoy: Tetris
SNES: Mario World
N64: Mario 64
GC: Luigi's Mansion
DS: Brain Age, Nintendogs
Wii: Zelda and Wii Sports
Wii U: Pikmin 3
But Apple isn't a game developer. Epic Games was missing this year. Strange. I expected them to be all over this.
"Did you expect it to cure cancer?!?!!!"
Well I predicted the touch interface along with Forcetouch and TouchID for user profiles.
I live with roommates and I'm the only one who watches documentaries. When I fire up Netflix, I have to scroll through dozens of reality TV shows and cartoons that I'm sick of.
Having all my shows spring up with a touch would have been amazing. I'm sure they would appreciate it also.
I also predicted Siri and A9 chips.
All we got was Siri and a controller you can swipe.
Did I ask for too much? Heck no. This technology exists TODAY.
There's no excuse for Apple to treat ?TV as a red headed stepchild.
Other comments I read
"What did you expect for $149!!!"
No one knew the price before the keynote genius.
"Apps is what's gonna help ?TV. It's what made iPhone and iPad so great."
It took iPhone 1 year and iPad 0 days to get third party apps. How long did it take ?TV?
"Eww a shopping app"
....that was a THIRD PARTY app. *facepalm*
"No Apple content/service"
I honestly think it's been a tough battle for Apple. I'm good at reading between the lines and the keynote was filled with praise and promotion with those joining the ?TV team. You can almost hear the "see what you're missing? Netflix and Hulu will eat your lunch if you stay in the 80's". Sounded like Apple tried their hardest and are stuck with propelling 3rd parties to hopefully slap content providers over the forehead.
The final verdict?
I like it! But the excuse that it couldn't have been more, lack of A9/TouchID and telling people it'll be great in 2+ years is unacceptable. There were zero killer apps, even the original iPhone had a killer app.
Why wasn't this the final surprise?
Why no "one more thing" at the end of the conference? I think the ?TV and iPad pro were bigger reveals than iPhone 6s. Would have been hyped if Tim announced. "There's still 2 MORE THINGS..."
Apple is no longer making reference to H.265 support for any purpose, FaceTime or otherwise."
I wonder if some update removed it or if it’s just on the down-low.
As I understand it, Apple has hardware or firmware to encode H.264 on newer iPhone's -- so it does not surprise me that they're currently using this for 4K. I suspect that they'll implement the H.265 encoding algorithms in hardware or firmware at some future date.
As to removing all reference to H.265 -- I think you're right -- that's just part of the negotiation process.
While I still don't see the point of 4K at home or on a tablet/phone (and no one has till now explained why it would actually make sense unlike stating that's being done already) I see the mismatch between the phone doing it and the ATV not doing it. So they clearly chose not to be on the front end of this movement, or at least not yet jump onto that bandwagon.
Second, I agree that there is complete absence of a killer app. Jesus, that frogger demo was just ... Embarrassing. You have the whole world watching and that's all you want to highlight together with a shopping app? Ok, AAA takes time. But until now whenever they wanted they managed to have such a killer app ready by giving early access to selected developers. I was expecting minimum Real Racing 4 demoed using the Siri Remote. Or something where one starts playing something, and others join in using their iPhones or iPod touches. What they showed was lame in comparison and I feel this like a wasted opportunity. To be clear: I'm not sayin this may not come in x time but I would have expected something more impressive that what they showed during the keynote.
Next, I expected - possibly wrongly in the first place - a larger local storage. Always having to stream apps is ... Awkward. But the main pint was the connected expectation to finally get rid of having to use my computers as media streaming and storage device.
Clearly, Apple wants you to go cloud only. And I'm not so comfortable with this. I want to see my movies even when I'm downloading something bigger in parallel, and be independent of network quality. So I can carry it on and plug it into a TV wherever I go and it has my favorite (or all) media on it.
The design is also a step back. I just feel the proportions less pleasing. Again, this is purely subjective.
The remote lacks the ability to write. No keyboard but the touch area could be used for handwriting. Here I was to admit that maybe Siri takes care of this. But I'm not sure how well she works with different people using it. And as my household is using more than one language I can foresee - while maybe not part of the masses - it won't work that seamlessly.
Having said this all, I think the ATV is decent. And has potential. I see that not all expectations can be met. Just that after the update being in the pipeline so long I feel Apple missed the chance to make a bigger impression. By lack of features or lack of showing them off.
I agree that the shopping app was not ready for prime time. The low-resolution video stream made it look worse than it was -- the event attendees saw a higher-resolution more-detailed version.
But, that shopping demo was only a hint of what a shopping app can (and will be).
Consider:
Now, through the magic of an AR app running on the AppleTV you and your friends can try on the clothes, move around, see how you look from different angles (check this out), try different styles/colors/sizes --- and ApplePay buy the items.
Same concept for purchasing that new patio set ...
Same concept for for redecorating and refurnishing your living room or man cave ...
Same concept for buying seats at an event ...
Same concept for buying that new car (does this color Beemer go with my eyes / make me look fat?) ...
Apple already has all the tech to do this!
I can't remember where I saw it, but there was a video online that showed a young couple in front of a closed store window -- using AR to try on, model -- then buy clothes.
... The content is thee and me ...
See this is where you lack PRACTICAL VISION.
You have to crawl before you can run. You want everything NOW. You want everything yesterday. It does not work that way in the real world.
But people with VISION see what a huge step this is for Apple. Not just what it its now, but what it will be in the future. So you admit the game changing feature is getting content directly from the broadcasters/cable networks. Fine. But in order to do that Apple needs to GROW THEIR APPLE-TV USER BASE.
Comcast has over 20 million subscribers. DirectTV has over 20 million. Apple will need at least 20 million active AppleTV users to have real leverage in negotiations with the content providers. To do that they need to make an AppleTV that is better than any other box out their and is reasonably priced. And that is EXACTLY what Apple did.
Grow User base.
Gain leverage.
Negotiate TV deals.
Improve hardware.
Repeat.
Yesssss. Boooring... Apple has turned into a provider of operating systems. Like Microsoft in the 90's. That was also all about the "eco-system" of applications (back when people still used words with more than two syllables) provided by developers, allowing them to tie business users to them. That worked very well for MS, very well. And it will work well for Apple. But it is booooooring.
Shall we wager when we will see Cook running around the stage screaming "Developers, developers, developers"?
The only difference between Apple and MS is that Apple builds their own boxes to run the OS, that's probably just a function of the difference in capital allocation preferences.
Apple TV is great, but so is a bog standard PC in the office.
Bottom line is the AppleTV can be as awesome as the App makers make it. Just like the iPhone and iPad.
This is what I'm excited about, I think we'll be seeing some very clever apps come to this little box once the developers start working their magic. Sure, some we sort of expect and make lots of sense, but then we'll get some real gems coming that we never expected, and that's going to be pure joy. The iOS developer community is so large and varied, I think we'll see some very interesting apps for it.
What is exciting to you?
Something that surprises and delights me and the rest of the world.
Tesla over Mercedes
iPhone over Nokia
Uber over GettTaxi.
C,mon, you ca';t say Apple is not playing it safe recently.