This and Siri not searching home shared content is not very good. Holding off on purchase until I see how this develops.
I agree - Was expecting it to index and locate at least iTunes purchased content located on my home share. Streaming horror flicks last night that were available local damaged my calm. Feels like an ApoleTV reboot that didn't learn from previous iterations.
Doesn't mean I would have held off since I bought 2.
You would think that after making customers wait so long for the new AppleTV4, Apple would have all the supporting pieces in place to make a grand entry!
New Remote Control - Check New UI Software - Check New modern design AppleTV4 - Sort of... (it gained middle age spread, so is now taller!) Support for latest displays on the market and future standard 4K - Nope! Latest version of HDMI for modern AVRs and TVs' - Nope! Digital Audio output - Ooops, forgot to add that! New Supporting Remote App - Ummm. Ahhh.... Nope!
My long anticipated purchase of the next AppleTV is on hold... Shame, I was so looking forward to it.
Apple is not up to its usual standards - Wait until the product is right before shipping. Apple should have made sure all avenues had been investigated and all support products were in place for the best customer experience on launch day.
Steve Jobs would have never allowed this to happen. It moves away from the single control point mantra. The personal device. The iPhone that should control everything.
Now when I plop myself on the couch, I have to search around for some flimsy remote (yes I think the old remote feels a lot more solid and Apple) so I can tell Siri to search and hope for the best? instead of allowing me to use the device I'm likely already holding, the iPhone.
This keeps from my son from using his touch to control the tv, my wife and myself from using our iPhones and watch. (sure AirPlay still works).
This is a huge glaring oversight for a company that prides itself on enriching lives by providing their customer with functional utility, intuitive UI and an unmatched integrated user experience across the product line.
How can this be? It's as if nobody thought this through or didn't speak up when they needed to. Otherwise HOW is it possible that such vital cross device functionality like keyboard/remote app for iOS is omitted.
I had expectations that the Apple TV would further integrate the ecosystem. Instead it currently more integrated in my ATV3. Truly sad to see this unfolding at my favorite company.
Steve Jobs would have never allowed this to happen. It moves away from the single control point mantra. The personal device. The iPhone that should control everything.
Silliest use of "Steve Jobs would never…" ever. Well, at least for this weekend.
Considering that the first and second generations were released under his tenure, and the previous generation-and-a-half were just modest updates to the internals, I mean. This thing is WAY more potent than any Apple TV so far, but somehow it's "moving away" from something that the previous devices…all did? Or something?
And you registered just to make that ridiculous mess of a post?
Maybe. I have to wonder if some of these developers actually used their app on the big screen? The HBO Go app is beautiful but some of the text is so tiny if you're sitting farther away from your TV you'd never be able to read it. In the screen shot below that episode description text could certainly be larger.
the HBO go app is full of poor usability issues -- the text is too damn small.
Like Roku's? Yup, it does help. Probably a good suggestion.
you will never, ever see a slide out keyboard on the remote. because it's not a good suggestion. Siri does basic searches now and will continue to improve, of course. and for all the hand waiving here about account data entry, it just doesn't happen that often to matter.
This and Siri not searching home shared content is not very good. Holding off on purchase until I see how this develops.
unless you use some sort of media server like Plex, I doubt Siri will ever search you local libraries. getting it to do so requires very good meta data and is fraught with challenges. Plex handles some of this and even that isn't perfect. and I'd bet most people don't even have local libraries (users of tech forums aren't normal people of course)
Like Roku's? Yup, it does help. Probably a good suggestion.
Nah, Apple surely explored that. Their assumption here is that if you buy an ?TV, at a minimum you already have an iPhone, or an iPad. For most people, as Apple has acknowledged before, browsing the internet on their iPad or iPhone while they watch TV is common experience. I think it's only a matter of time before the remote goes completely. Simply mirroring the video of ?TV on the iPad or iPhone would be the way to go, actually typing directly on the virtual keyboard displayed on the TV for the touch screen device, and navigating without having to guess where the buttons are on a blank slate. Considering the iPad mini 4 and new iPod Touch just launched, this would have been the perfect bundle of TV controller and set top box, and sold more devices which aren't selling that well. Heck even the ?Watch might have seen some additional sales as a controller. The Siri remote seems hardly the "Only remote you will ever need", as even those who like it seem to still be using other remotes to control aspects of their media systems. But controlling it through an iOS device with apps seems a lot closer to that promise. At most a simple IR repeater box that accepts commands from the ?TV would have delivered on the promise of the only remote you'll ever need -- not to mention including Siri, and and Touch ID for making purchases for all those apps that will be coming down the pike. Typing in passwords for all those apps is going to get tedious as it is. And for some people who have a publicly accessible ?TV, they don't want their password automatically entered for everything, especially those which offer in app purchases. Even building in Touch ID on the remote would have solved part of the password problem, though not essential for this release, if given other options.
I think the Siri remote is a great step forward. It's just too bad they had to take so many steps backward to bring it to market. What's odd here, is that it's almost like Apple went out of their way to ensure any keyboard access besides that provided with the remote was disabled for the launch. That's the stumper. Why throw out over 9 years of ?TV development with giving us proven controller interfaces to bring us the Siri remote?
It is still a toss up right now. The Netflix app in my Samsung TV offers a full browse of different genres when you enter the Search, similar to the Netflix app in the AppleTV3 using Apple's UI. I never used the smart TV app because the version in the AppleTV3 was far superior than the app. But I decided to compare the two to see if the new AppleTV4 Netflix app matched the smart TV version. The new AppleTV version excludes the sub category search and browse feature and the search only gives you a text entry. No list of multiple genres to search or browse what is on Netflix. Why Netflix did that, who knows. Would they add it later, maybe. The iPad Netflix app even offers the option to browse or search specific genres. So even the Netflix app is better on the iPad. The HBO Go app is nice, but the tiny blue indicator vertical bar is not easy to see. As Rogifan pointed out, the text on HBO Go is too small for viewing at a regular distance from the TV. It is unfortunate that only the Apple supplied apps, basically Music, TV, Photos, and Movies, are the only apps that will follow the AppleTV UI. Maybe enough complaints will get either Apple or Netflix and others to improve the apps. I could get used to the new Netflix app if it offered the list of genres to browse and search, but for now, it does not.
Here is the traditional SmartTV Netflix app search option. Notice the list of subcategories to browse and search. The regular text entry 'block' is at the top left of the screen if you scroll up.
Here is the new AppleTV4 version of Netflix search. Just a blank search option. When you enter a letter, you get a small cropped column of text, mostly cut off, and then images of close matching items. No way to search sub categories.
I think there are plenty of issues with this release but the "Steve wouldn't have" mantra is so ridiculous. There are lots of things Apple did or didn't do that had they happened today people would be using that same, tired line.
unless you use some sort of media server like Plex, I doubt Siri will ever search you local libraries. getting it to do so requires very good meta data and is fraught with challenges. Plex handles some of this and even that isn't perfect. and I'd bet most people don't even have local libraries (users of tech forums aren't normal people of course)
That's all I use, apart from podcasts I don't stream anything.
This and Siri not searching home shared content is not very good. Holding off on purchase until I see how this develops.
I suggest you buy something else. There are many other platforms for Plex. A $50 unofficial Android TV will do you just fine. I don't quite get all the critics here who are unhappy with the Apple TV for not doing what they want. Any product is not meant to have the Union of every user's wish list. In particular, the main purpose of the Apple TV is not as a local player.
I had expectations that the Apple TV would further integrate the ecosystem. Instead it currently more integrated in my ATV3. Truly sad to see this unfolding at my favorite company.
Over-promised, under-delivered.
Perhaps you had higher expectations. The new ATV is exactly what I thought it would be. Love it. Sure there are a few rough spots but these will be fixed fast as opposed to the audio issues with the Fire TV which are still awaiting resolution ( and I am talking 1st gen).
I suspect people who have never owned an AppleTV before may have a different set of expectations compared to previous model owners.
I have had them all. This is by far the best one. There are some minor issues and the issues involving Google, Apple and Amazon are unfortunate but this Apple TV comes very close to allowing me to get rid of every other media streamer. Obviously it is not an HTPC replacement but it covers a lot of even that unit's capabilities. The lack of gigabit Ethernet is not surprising given that these SoC's don't really have the power to handle that. In any case the ac wireless is just as good, if not better.
you will never, ever see a slide out keyboard on the remote. because it's not a good suggestion. Siri does basic searches now and will continue to improve, of course. and for all the hand waiving here about account data entry, it just doesn't happen that often to matter.
Nah, Apple surely explored that. Their assumption here is that if you buy an ?TV, at a minimum you already have an iPhone, or an iPad. I think it's only a matter of time before the remote goes completely. Simply mirroring the video of ?TV on the iPad or iPhone would be the way to go, actually typing directly on the virtual keyboard displayed on the TV for the touch screen device, and navigating without having to guess where the buttons are on a blank slate...
The Siri remote seems hardly the "Only remote you will ever need", as even those who like it seem to still be using other remotes to control aspects of their media systems. But controlling it through an iOS device with apps seems a lot closer to that promise ...
What's odd here, is that it's almost like Apple went out of their way to ensure any keyboard access besides that provided with the remote was disabled for the launch. That's the stumper. Why throw out over 9 years of ?TV development with giving us proven controller interfaces to bring us the Siri remote?
Have either of you considered it would not be unusual for whoever is watching TV at the moment to either not have an iPhone or at least not have it next to them? I often put my phone aside once I get home as my family likes my attention on them rather than who's texting/calling me every moment. At least for a little while after I get home and during dinner. (The rest is my time, LOL)
The Roku remote offers universal voice search too, PLUS a slide-out keyboard. While I don't often use that keyboard I do use it to sign into new services or for search when the remote doesn't seem to understand. What harm would there be in Apple including one too, other than a lost opportunity to sell you another keyboard for yet more money? That slider could hardly add more than a buck or two to the cost if that much while a separate Apple keyboard will set you back how much?
EDIT: and with that it's time bring the baby-backs in fresh off the grill and get the veggies roasting. YUM! Dinner in 30...
Apple always does this sort of thing. They'll release something (like the original iPhone) that misses really important stuff. Then when everyone bitches they release new software to make it better. I think it's a game they play with their customers.
Comments
I agree - Was expecting it to index and locate at least iTunes purchased content located on my home share. Streaming horror flicks last night that were available local damaged my calm. Feels like an ApoleTV reboot that didn't learn from previous iterations.
Doesn't mean I would have held off since I bought 2.
New Remote Control - Check
New UI Software - Check
New modern design AppleTV4 - Sort of... (it gained middle age spread, so is now taller!)
Support for latest displays on the market and future standard 4K - Nope!
Latest version of HDMI for modern AVRs and TVs' - Nope!
Digital Audio output - Ooops, forgot to add that!
New Supporting Remote App - Ummm. Ahhh.... Nope!
My long anticipated purchase of the next AppleTV is on hold... Shame, I was so looking forward to it.
Apple is not up to its usual standards - Wait until the product is right before shipping.
Apple should have made sure all avenues had been investigated and all support products were in place for the best customer experience on launch day.
Steve Jobs would have never allowed this to happen. It moves away from the single control point mantra. The personal device. The iPhone that should control everything.
Now when I plop myself on the couch, I have to search around for some flimsy remote (yes I think the old remote feels a lot more solid and Apple) so I can tell Siri to search and hope for the best? instead of allowing me to use the device I'm likely already holding, the iPhone.
This keeps from my son from using his touch to control the tv, my wife and myself from using our iPhones and watch. (sure AirPlay still works).
This is a huge glaring oversight for a company that prides itself on enriching lives by providing their customer with functional utility, intuitive UI and an unmatched integrated user experience across the product line.
How can this be? It's as if nobody thought this through or didn't speak up when they needed to. Otherwise HOW is it possible that such vital cross device functionality like keyboard/remote app for iOS is omitted.
I had expectations that the Apple TV would further integrate the ecosystem. Instead it currently more integrated in my ATV3. Truly sad to see this unfolding at my favorite company.
Over-promised, under-delivered.
lol
lol
Which is why the iPhone controls my Mac Pro.
So you immediately admit that there was already a remote in existence, thereby invalidating your entire premise.
lol
lol
Extremely disappointed by this Apple release.
Steve Jobs would have never allowed this to happen. It moves away from the single control point mantra. The personal device. The iPhone that should control everything.
Silliest use of "Steve Jobs would never…" ever. Well, at least for this weekend.
Considering that the first and second generations were released under his tenure, and the previous generation-and-a-half were just modest updates to the internals, I mean. This thing is WAY more potent than any Apple TV so far, but somehow it's "moving away" from something that the previous devices…all did? Or something?
And you registered just to make that ridiculous mess of a post?
the HBO go app is full of poor usability issues -- the text is too damn small.
you will never, ever see a slide out keyboard on the remote. because it's not a good suggestion. Siri does basic searches now and will continue to improve, of course. and for all the hand waiving here about account data entry, it just doesn't happen that often to matter.
unless you use some sort of media server like Plex, I doubt Siri will ever search you local libraries. getting it to do so requires very good meta data and is fraught with challenges. Plex handles some of this and even that isn't perfect. and I'd bet most people don't even have local libraries (users of tech forums aren't normal people of course)
go home, krax, you're drunk.
Like Roku's? Yup, it does help. Probably a good suggestion.
Nah, Apple surely explored that. Their assumption here is that if you buy an ?TV, at a minimum you already have an iPhone, or an iPad. For most people, as Apple has acknowledged before, browsing the internet on their iPad or iPhone while they watch TV is common experience. I think it's only a matter of time before the remote goes completely. Simply mirroring the video of ?TV on the iPad or iPhone would be the way to go, actually typing directly on the virtual keyboard displayed on the TV for the touch screen device, and navigating without having to guess where the buttons are on a blank slate. Considering the iPad mini 4 and new iPod Touch just launched, this would have been the perfect bundle of TV controller and set top box, and sold more devices which aren't selling that well. Heck even the ?Watch might have seen some additional sales as a controller. The Siri remote seems hardly the "Only remote you will ever need", as even those who like it seem to still be using other remotes to control aspects of their media systems. But controlling it through an iOS device with apps seems a lot closer to that promise. At most a simple IR repeater box that accepts commands from the ?TV would have delivered on the promise of the only remote you'll ever need -- not to mention including Siri, and and Touch ID for making purchases for all those apps that will be coming down the pike. Typing in passwords for all those apps is going to get tedious as it is. And for some people who have a publicly accessible ?TV, they don't want their password automatically entered for everything, especially those which offer in app purchases. Even building in Touch ID on the remote would have solved part of the password problem, though not essential for this release, if given other options.
I think the Siri remote is a great step forward. It's just too bad they had to take so many steps backward to bring it to market. What's odd here, is that it's almost like Apple went out of their way to ensure any keyboard access besides that provided with the remote was disabled for the launch. That's the stumper. Why throw out over 9 years of ?TV development with giving us proven controller interfaces to bring us the Siri remote?
It is still a toss up right now. The Netflix app in my Samsung TV offers a full browse of different genres when you enter the Search, similar to the Netflix app in the AppleTV3 using Apple's UI. I never used the smart TV app because the version in the AppleTV3 was far superior than the app. But I decided to compare the two to see if the new AppleTV4 Netflix app matched the smart TV version. The new AppleTV version excludes the sub category search and browse feature and the search only gives you a text entry. No list of multiple genres to search or browse what is on Netflix. Why Netflix did that, who knows. Would they add it later, maybe. The iPad Netflix app even offers the option to browse or search specific genres. So even the Netflix app is better on the iPad. The HBO Go app is nice, but the tiny blue indicator vertical bar is not easy to see. As Rogifan pointed out, the text on HBO Go is too small for viewing at a regular distance from the TV. It is unfortunate that only the Apple supplied apps, basically Music, TV, Photos, and Movies, are the only apps that will follow the AppleTV UI. Maybe enough complaints will get either Apple or Netflix and others to improve the apps. I could get used to the new Netflix app if it offered the list of genres to browse and search, but for now, it does not.
Here is the traditional SmartTV Netflix app search option. Notice the list of subcategories to browse and search. The regular text entry 'block' is at the top left of the screen if you scroll up.
Here is the new AppleTV4 version of Netflix search. Just a blank search option. When you enter a letter, you get a small cropped column of text, mostly cut off, and then images of close matching items. No way to search sub categories.
But it sure is purdy...
I think there are plenty of issues with this release but the "Steve wouldn't have" mantra is so ridiculous. There are lots of things Apple did or didn't do that had they happened today people would be using that same, tired line.
That's all I use, apart from podcasts I don't stream anything.
If all you do is use Plex then there are many other alternatives which are far less expensive.
I suggest you buy something else. There are many other platforms for Plex. A $50 unofficial Android TV will do you just fine. I don't quite get all the critics here who are unhappy with the Apple TV for not doing what they want. Any product is not meant to have the Union of every user's wish list. In particular, the main purpose of the Apple TV is not as a local player.
Perhaps you had higher expectations. The new ATV is exactly what I thought it would be. Love it. Sure there are a few rough spots but these will be fixed fast as opposed to the audio issues with the Fire TV which are still awaiting resolution ( and I am talking 1st gen).
I have had them all. This is by far the best one. There are some minor issues and the issues involving Google, Apple and Amazon are unfortunate but this Apple TV comes very close to allowing me to get rid of every other media streamer. Obviously it is not an HTPC replacement but it covers a lot of even that unit's capabilities. The lack of gigabit Ethernet is not surprising given that these SoC's don't really have the power to handle that. In any case the ac wireless is just as good, if not better.
Have either of you considered it would not be unusual for whoever is watching TV at the moment to either not have an iPhone or at least not have it next to them? I often put my phone aside once I get home as my family likes my attention on them rather than who's texting/calling me every moment. At least for a little while after I get home and during dinner. (The rest is my time, LOL)
The Roku remote offers universal voice search too, PLUS a slide-out keyboard. While I don't often use that keyboard I do use it to sign into new services or for search when the remote doesn't seem to understand. What harm would there be in Apple including one too, other than a lost opportunity to sell you another keyboard for yet more money? That slider could hardly add more than a buck or two to the cost if that much while a separate Apple keyboard will set you back how much?
EDIT: and with that it's time bring the baby-backs in fresh off the grill and get the veggies roasting. YUM! Dinner in 30...