I wouldn't normally want to use a mouse with an iPad but sometimes I have to remote in to a Windows PC at work to access files, and it would be easier to do with a mouse.
Anyone considering a Cintiq at this point should look at Astropad (which works with other iPads as well BTW, but presumably best with the Pro/Pencil combo). Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8xZedh_hUQ
I have a number of apps that allow that, including Astropad. It should work much better over WiFi "c". Previously, there was some lag.
"Jony Ive: Apple Pencil is made for marking, not a 'stylus' finger replacement".
[SIZE=16px]An the mouse pointer cannot be replaced by a finger o stylus either. Bring a true Mac tablet.[/SIZE]
That's nonsense. Apparently you don't know how to use this. It's true that before iOS 9, moving the cursor could be annoying, but now, on any device with iOS 9, you just have to put two fingers on the keyboard to move the cursor anwhere you want it to go, quickly and accurately. That's almost all of what the mouse does for most people. Assuming you own an iOS device, you should try it.
Your post you make clear how bad is the iPad pro from an ergonomic POV. With the iPad Pro + keyboard I have to reach touchscreen to navigate thru the apps. Isn't that one of the reason touchscreen notebooks were criticized? At least with the Surface Pro I have the option to use the trackpad and change the angle of the screen to my preference.
The iPad Pro has many nice things, but the keyboard and no mouse support is not one of them.
Except that you're reversing the truth here. It's very ergonomic. The first thing is that you're ignoring what I've said about cursor support in ios9. It's a lot better than the damned trackpad on those Surface keypads, which have been panned by every reviewer. The new ones are serviceable, at best, and the previous ones have been almost unusable. And yes, I've always wanted to carry a mouse around when I've got a tablet on my lap. Great idea!
Keyboard support for iOS has always been very good. Much better than what's available for the Surface. How many keyboards are available for the Surface? And again, we don't need a mouse, we just put two fingers on the virtual keyboard to move the cursor wherever we need it to be. This isn't a real issue. The problem isn't selecting apps, which you aren't doing constantly, it's maneuvering within the app which is the problem, which the cursor control we have now fixes.
I'm a programmer, try copying code from a site and than embedding it into your own using your fingers on an iPad, now try doing the same with a mouse while using your PC or laptop, you have just divided your time by a 3rd. Use multiple apps to compile data into a single source, the mouse is a God send. The reasons are actually vast and honestly if you can't see them, than your using your iPad for entertainment purposes. Which is fine but my needs are valid.
sounds like you need a truck, not a car. iPad is a car, and it can replace laptops for those that use them as cars. not trucks.
Yet they completely botched the production ramp. I got the iPad Pro but is on a 4 to 5 weeks wait for the Pencil. Completely unacceptable, someone just misjudged the demand so bad. Apple owes us an apology.
an apology? good god. that sense of entitlement is the problem, folks.
it's a tool. they couldn't make enough of them. now you have to wait until they can. end of story.
I agree, though the iPad Pro blurred those lines, did you not see the Office and other productivity apps demoed. The iPad Pro is most certainly being marketed as laptop replacement, it really should have mouse support. I'm sure it will to, just need to give it a little more time. Until than though, the external keyboard is useless, it's more comfortable typing on the screen itself so you can navigate the UI faster and more efficiently than having to reach over.
Cook suggested it's a laptop replacement for people who only need CARS, not people who need trucks (like myself, also a dev)
Hmmm this makes sense. The only time I'd be using a stylus is to draw or write something. Isn't the iPad Pro about the same weight as the original iPad? I had no trouble holding that up, though obviously the iPad 2 made things even easier. I wonder if the iPhone 7 will be compatible with the Apple Pencil or a future model?
He is talking about editing text friend.. Not rendering a complex 3d scene
Have you heard of codea? Its written for ipad.
And why would ipad be the wrong tool for programing ? ..
because the screen is so small it's not nearly as productive as a rig with one or more large displays where we can keep multiple tools visible at the same time.
I'm not asking Apple to do something that will be destructive to the vision that Apple has for the iPad. They've already added a stylus, something a lot you adamantly stated would not only ever happen but tiresomely tried to convince people that it went against the iPad's paradigm, even went so far to say ow bad stylus's were.
wow, talk about strawmen arguments. the discussion on ipads and a stylus stemmed from Jobs' comment that if a tablet has a stylus, they blew it; and that discussion was always about a stylus as an interface. never as a drawing accessory. for apple to today release a drawing accessory doesnt go against any of what was said.
No, Apple created a product you want and will ship it to you when their production meets your demand. I want a new sofa but will be delivered in January. Go figure. Things need to be made.
yep -- i ordered a nifty new sit-stand desk but it wont be here for 3-4 weeks. "they owe me an apology!"
Wasn't the touchscreen notebooks an ergonomic nightmare because of the "gorilla arm syndrome"? Now I have to do the same movement in the iPad Pro, reach the screen to navigate thru the app. Compare that to the Surface Pro, where you have the option to use the touchpad to navigate. Isn't that a benefit?
That's what you have with the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard, and "ergonomically terrible" device.
yes, which is why apple needs to finish correctly implementing keyboard support in order to remove or minimize the need to reach up. Gruber hit upon this in his review:
Being able to navigate and open apps with the Pencil is something so obvious that I was pretty shocked (and admittedly a little disappointed) to learn that it didn't work that way. Having used other devices where the stylus works for drawing, marking, navigating and opening apps, its such a natural flow once you have the stylus in hand.
Having to switch to use a finger while holding a stylus can be somewhat annoying. Like having to hit a non on-screen capacitive button where the stylus wont work. I see no harm in being able to use the Pencil to navigate and open apps, or basically do anything a finger would do, only with more precision. That is what I was hoping for anyway.
i suspect it doesnt work that way because if they allowed it app devs would begin to introduce very small UI elements which in effect required a stylus to operate rather than by touch alone.
wow, talk about strawmen arguments. the discussion on ipads and a stylus stemmed from Jobs' comment that if a tablet has a stylus, they blew it; and that discussion was always about a stylus as an interface. never as a drawing accessory. for apple to today release a drawing accessory doesnt go against any of what was said.
i mean, really.
You're completely changing the narrative to fit your logic by adding in a recent comment about the Pencil from Ive's. Jobs never once said that a stylus was okay one way but not the other, he generalized the whole stylus concept as flawed without distinctions or we would have seen a Pencil on day one of the iPad. Which is fine, I'm not arguing the past but the present.
I'm also not asking for full navigation support fo the Pencil as I hate using a stylus for that purpose, might as well use your fingers. I just want to be able to use my Magic Mouse and Mac Keyboard together while the iPad Pro is sitting at my desk, that's it. Regardless of how good the new touch keyboard is, I don't want to use a portable keyboard or even touch the display while using the iPad Pro at my desk. This isn't some crazy request, I'm sure you even said the same thing about the stylus a year ago as you strike me as defend Apple's position no matter what kind of guy.
What will your answer be if Apple decides to add mouse support in an upcoming iOS 9 release, will you still be this staunch about it. I say no way, you'll back it up because Apple said it was okay. That is the real issue here, until Apple releases something, let it be a feature or device, it's all crap, even if it's not, like the Surface Pro which despite all of comments here, it's a good device, however you'll state as much solely because it doesn't have an Apple logo on it.
If and when Apple does finally release a convertible device and I have no doubt they will, just look at the iPad Pro, it's full of condescending technology that people here aggressively stated will never happen. Maybe this convertible will just simply switch the OS to iOS when the display is folded back, who knows, but I'll bet anything that their you'll be, calling it revolutionary, genius, etc. That's fine and I'll welcome it with open arms but don't piss all over a simple request that will make my life easier just because Apple doesn't or hasn't released the feature yet. It's not fair and just plain silly.
This post was not pointed to you directly but anyone who thinks that me wanting mouse support isn't a reasonable request.
I unferstand that graphic artists think the iPad Pro is better than the alternatives - but id good enough to convince an artist who now uses canvas as his medium of choice to switch? I'm not trying to criticize the iPad Pro - just trying to see its potential. I am not an artist - but my daughter is. She still prefers canvas, but she is just one data point.
Except that you're reversing the truth here. It's very ergonomic. The first thing is that you're ignoring what I've said about cursor support in ios9. It's a lot better than the damned trackpad on those Surface keypads, which have been panned by every reviewer. The new ones are serviceable, at best, and the previous ones have been almost unusable. And yes, I've always wanted to carry a mouse around when I've got a tablet on my lap. Great idea!
Keyboard support for iOS has always been very good. Much better than what's available for the Surface. How many keyboards are available for the Surface? And again, we don't need a mouse, we just put two fingers on the virtual keyboard to move the cursor wherever we need it to be. This isn't a real issue. The problem isn't selecting apps, which you aren't doing constantly, it's maneuvering within the app which is the problem, which the cursor control we have now fixes.
With the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard, I have to reach the screen (something strongly criticized in the touchscreen notebooks), enable the on-screen keyboard, with two fingers move the cursor and close the keyboard. So that implementation is better than the Surface Pro keyboard with integrated trackpad. Are you sure of that?
You should read this article I posted before from SJ regarding notebooks with touchscreen, which are the same issues Apple have with the iPad Pro and the Smart Keyboard.
yes, which is why apple needs to finish correctly implementing keyboard support in order to remove or minimize the need to reach up. Gruber hit upon this in his review:
"We've done tons of user testing on this, and it turns out it doesn't work. Touch surfaces don't want to be vertical.
Still Apple went ahead with the current iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard implementation. Looks like MS did their homework a designed the Surface Pro keyboard with a touchpad, while Apple just ignored all the research they did on the issue.
Comments
I have a number of apps that allow that, including Astropad. It should work much better over WiFi "c". Previously, there was some lag.
That's nonsense. Apparently you don't know how to use this. It's true that before iOS 9, moving the cursor could be annoying, but now, on any device with iOS 9, you just have to put two fingers on the keyboard to move the cursor anwhere you want it to go, quickly and accurately. That's almost all of what the mouse does for most people. Assuming you own an iOS device, you should try it.
Except that you're reversing the truth here. It's very ergonomic. The first thing is that you're ignoring what I've said about cursor support in ios9. It's a lot better than the damned trackpad on those Surface keypads, which have been panned by every reviewer. The new ones are serviceable, at best, and the previous ones have been almost unusable. And yes, I've always wanted to carry a mouse around when I've got a tablet on my lap. Great idea!
Keyboard support for iOS has always been very good. Much better than what's available for the Surface. How many keyboards are available for the Surface? And again, we don't need a mouse, we just put two fingers on the virtual keyboard to move the cursor wherever we need it to be. This isn't a real issue. The problem isn't selecting apps, which you aren't doing constantly, it's maneuvering within the app which is the problem, which the cursor control we have now fixes.
sounds like you need a truck, not a car. iPad is a car, and it can replace laptops for those that use them as cars. not trucks.
an apology? good god. that sense of entitlement is the problem, folks.
it's a tool. they couldn't make enough of them. now you have to wait until they can. end of story.
Cook suggested it's a laptop replacement for people who only need CARS, not people who need trucks (like myself, also a dev)
because the screen is so small it's not nearly as productive as a rig with one or more large displays where we can keep multiple tools visible at the same time.
wow, talk about strawmen arguments. the discussion on ipads and a stylus stemmed from Jobs' comment that if a tablet has a stylus, they blew it; and that discussion was always about a stylus as an interface. never as a drawing accessory. for apple to today release a drawing accessory doesnt go against any of what was said.
i mean, really.
yep -- i ordered a nifty new sit-stand desk but it wont be here for 3-4 weeks. "they owe me an apology!"
yes, which is why apple needs to finish correctly implementing keyboard support in order to remove or minimize the need to reach up. Gruber hit upon this in his review:
http://daringfireball.net/2015/11/the_ipad_pro
i suspect it doesnt work that way because if they allowed it app devs would begin to introduce very small UI elements which in effect required a stylus to operate rather than by touch alone.
You're completely changing the narrative to fit your logic by adding in a recent comment about the Pencil from Ive's. Jobs never once said that a stylus was okay one way but not the other, he generalized the whole stylus concept as flawed without distinctions or we would have seen a Pencil on day one of the iPad. Which is fine, I'm not arguing the past but the present.
I'm also not asking for full navigation support fo the Pencil as I hate using a stylus for that purpose, might as well use your fingers. I just want to be able to use my Magic Mouse and Mac Keyboard together while the iPad Pro is sitting at my desk, that's it. Regardless of how good the new touch keyboard is, I don't want to use a portable keyboard or even touch the display while using the iPad Pro at my desk. This isn't some crazy request, I'm sure you even said the same thing about the stylus a year ago as you strike me as defend Apple's position no matter what kind of guy.
What will your answer be if Apple decides to add mouse support in an upcoming iOS 9 release, will you still be this staunch about it. I say no way, you'll back it up because Apple said it was okay. That is the real issue here, until Apple releases something, let it be a feature or device, it's all crap, even if it's not, like the Surface Pro which despite all of comments here, it's a good device, however you'll state as much solely because it doesn't have an Apple logo on it.
If and when Apple does finally release a convertible device and I have no doubt they will, just look at the iPad Pro, it's full of condescending technology that people here aggressively stated will never happen. Maybe this convertible will just simply switch the OS to iOS when the display is folded back, who knows, but I'll bet anything that their you'll be, calling it revolutionary, genius, etc. That's fine and I'll welcome it with open arms but don't piss all over a simple request that will make my life easier just because Apple doesn't or hasn't released the feature yet. It's not fair and just plain silly.
This post was not pointed to you directly but anyone who thinks that me wanting mouse support isn't a reasonable request.
Except that you're reversing the truth here. It's very ergonomic. The first thing is that you're ignoring what I've said about cursor support in ios9. It's a lot better than the damned trackpad on those Surface keypads, which have been panned by every reviewer. The new ones are serviceable, at best, and the previous ones have been almost unusable. And yes, I've always wanted to carry a mouse around when I've got a tablet on my lap. Great idea!
Keyboard support for iOS has always been very good. Much better than what's available for the Surface. How many keyboards are available for the Surface? And again, we don't need a mouse, we just put two fingers on the virtual keyboard to move the cursor wherever we need it to be. This isn't a real issue. The problem isn't selecting apps, which you aren't doing constantly, it's maneuvering within the app which is the problem, which the cursor control we have now fixes.
With the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard, I have to reach the screen (something strongly criticized in the touchscreen notebooks), enable the on-screen keyboard, with two fingers move the cursor and close the keyboard. So that implementation is better than the Surface Pro keyboard with integrated trackpad. Are you sure of that?
You should read this article I posted before from SJ regarding notebooks with touchscreen, which are the same issues Apple have with the iPad Pro and the Smart Keyboard.
yes, which is why apple needs to finish correctly implementing keyboard support in order to remove or minimize the need to reach up. Gruber hit upon this in his review:
http://daringfireball.net/2015/11/the_ipad_pro
I find interesting that the article mentions,
Still Apple went ahead with the current iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard implementation. Looks like MS did their homework a designed the Surface Pro keyboard with a touchpad, while Apple just ignored all the research they did on the issue.