First thing I do when I get a new phone is toss the crap headphones in the garbage, now they're expecting us to listen to audio via Bluetooth? For some of us that care about audio quality this SUCKS!
This is about pushing technology forward. Anyone that is ok with the 3.5mm jack should be ok with buying a 6s. There is definitely some huge financial gains to be made as was pointed out earlier. The multiple "thin" comments are not even close to accurate. It has nothing to do with that. I am ok standing by a company that pushes technology forward.
How is pushing technology forward requiring the use of a DAC inside a cable or a headphone? The same or worse DAC that we already have in the device. Headphones drivers work with analog signal, you always will need the conversion and the loses in the cable are negligible
Can someone explain me what is the advantage of having the DAC in a Lightning connector instead in the iPhone/iPod.
And not taking into account that the iPhone still needs a DAC to use the speaker
Better DAC. I have a USB DAC in my HiFi Man headphone amp which I can use with my laptop USB port but not the 3.5mm port of an iPod. (But i can still use the iPod by using the 3.5mm analog jack on the iPod and amp.) It may not make a difference on standard quality headphones or earbuds, but one can easily hear the difference a better DAC makes on headphones that cost hundreds of dollars. Of course I didn't invest in my headphone amp (and headphones) set up to listen to music on my iPhone. But it sure would be nice and handy if I can use an iPod as my digital source. Or maybe get a digital music stream from an iTunes account in the iCould or from an Apple Music account using an iPhone.
This is about pushing technology forward. Anyone that is ok with the 3.5mm jack should be ok with buying a 6s. There is definitely some huge financial gains to be made as was pointed out earlier. The multiple "thin" comments are not even close to accurate. It has nothing to do with that. I am ok standing by a company that pushes technology forward.
I agree with you. This not different than when Apple removed the floppy and then the CD/DVD drive. People were all up in arms about, but today it's a non issue. It's the future and like someone else said, people will probably use what is included in the box. For the other < 1% there will be adapters.
BTW, this is just some unsbstantiated rumor. No need to tear into each other for this.
This is about pushing technology forward. Anyone that is ok with the 3.5mm jack should be ok with buying a 6s. There is definitely some huge financial gains to be made as was pointed out earlier. The multiple "thin" comments are not even close to accurate. It has nothing to do with that. I am ok standing by a company that pushes technology forward.
How is pushing technology forward requiring the use of a DAC inside a cable or a headphone? The same or worse DAC that we already have in the device. Headphones drivers work with analog signal, you always will need the conversion and the loses in the cable are negligible
The iPhone still needs a DAC for the internal speaker. Not everyone uses headphones or earbuds when using an iPhone. No one is required to use an external DAC. Both analog and digital signal will be passed through the lightning connector. The only requirement for older headsets would be a 3.5mm to lightning adapter to capture the analog signal from the internal DAC. And it can be in the form of a short cable, for those that absolutely can't stand having an extra 1/2 inch sticking out of their headphone jack of their iPhone.
Can someone explain me what is the advantage of having the DAC in a Lightning connector instead in the iPhone/iPod.
And not taking into account that the iPhone still needs a DAC to use the speaker
Better DAC. I have a USB DAC in my HiFi Man headphone amp which I can use with my laptop USB port but not the 3.5mm port of an iPod. (But i can still use the iPod by using the 3.5mm analog jack on the iPod and amp.) It may not make a difference on standard quality headphones or earbuds, but one can easily hear the difference a better DAC makes on headphones that cost hundreds of dollars. Of course I didn't invest in my headphone amp (and headphones) set up to listen to music on my iPhone. But it sure would be nice and handy if I can use an iPod as my digital source. Or maybe get a digital music stream from an iTunes account in the iCould or from an Apple Music account using an iPhone.
Are you comparing this dedicated USB DAC with the one forced to be put in a lightning connector? This is the thing we are talking about, not a HiFiman, Chord, Schitt or even a FiiO DAC
The lightning connector has zero support or pins left for analog output and there is now way to add it. It is a high speed serial bus and will always be digital only.
I have literally never plugged anything into the 3.5mm jack in any iPhone (since 2007) and doubt if I'm alone. All those that spend hundreds on headphones and think they are more than a negligible minority are deluded themselves. I would easily bet the majority of Jack users use the included phones from Apple and will continue to do so.
How is pushing technology forward requiring the use of a DAC inside a cable or a headphone? The same or worse DAC that we already have in the device. Headphones drivers work with analog signal, you always will need the conversion and the loses in the cable are negligible
The iPhone still needs a DAC for the internal speaker. Not everyone uses headphones or earbuds when using an iPhone. No one is required to use an external DAC. Both analog and digital signal will be passed through the lightning connector. The only requirement for older headsets would be a 3.5mm to lightning adapter to capture the analog signal from the internal DAC. And it can be in the form of a short cable, for those that absolutely can't stand having an extra 1/2 inch sticking out of their headphone jack of their iPhone.
Lightning connector doesn't pass analog signal, it can't do that because of crosstalk and interference
First thing I do when I get a new phone is toss the crap headphones in the garbage, now they're expecting us to listen to audio via Bluetooth? For some of us that care about audio quality this SUCKS!
If you care about audio quality, you should welcome being able to get a digital signal from the iPhone, so you can use a better built in DAC in your headphones (or headphone amp). No one I know, that care about audio quality, actually thinks that the analog signal from an iPhone or iPod is actually a high quality signal. There's a reason why there are special headphones made for MP3 devices, they correct for the short coming of the analog signal from them. Listen to the analog signal from any MP3 player with high end headphones made for a stereo system and you'll hear the difference from it and a basic home stereo.
Asinine? Why? If anything it's forward thinking and progression. It's not like they ever compromise quality to be thin. this makes sense to me.
They will conveniently provide an accessory solution that allows our phones plugin support to the existing audio headset format. It's not a huge deal in my opinion. Being Apple fans , investors, hobbyists, and supporters, we should be used to this paradigm by now.
This absolutely is a risky move. That jack is used by millions of people every single day. Apple may have very good reasons for eliminating the headphone jack but those reasons better be immediately apparent and ones that people can easily understand and accept. Like making the phone as water resistant as possible, allowing for a bigger battery etc. If people think it's just so Apple could make the phone slightly thinner or sell them a pricey adapter it will be a huge turnoff and could impact iPhone sales.
I actually don't think it's that risky, especially if the iPhone 7 ships with wireless earpods.
Clearly Apple has data on what percentage of iPhone owners use the headphones supplied in the box vs 3rd party. If that's a large number then I can see Apple getting rid of the headphone jack. My question is would Apple go wireless? If not would the solution allow you to listen to audio and charge the device at the same time?
First thing I do when I get a new phone is toss the crap headphones in the garbage, now they're expecting us to listen to audio via Bluetooth? For some of us that care about audio quality this SUCKS!
If you care about audio quality, you should welcome being able to get a digital signal from the iPhone, so you can use a better built in DAC in your headphones (or headphone amp). No one I know, that care about audio quality, actually thinks that the analog signal from an iPhone or iPod is actually a high quality signal. There's a reason why there are special headphones made for MP3 devices, they correct for the short coming of the analog signal from them. Listen to the analog signal from any MP3 player with high end headphones made for a stereo system and you'll hear the difference from it and a basic home stereo.
I care about audio quality and I think the output from iPhones and a lot of competing phones easily matches that of dedicated CD players. I think a lot of people claim to be able to sonically differentiate DACs but I personally doubt such ability would survive a proper blind ABX comparrison.
Haven't been using 3.5mm jack since iPhone 4, (well - maybe 10 times). Using lightning and earlier with external dac's, mostly in car.. AirPlay in home.
Better DAC. I have a USB DAC in my HiFi Man headphone amp which I can use with my laptop USB port but not the 3.5mm port of an iPod. (But i can still use the iPod by using the 3.5mm analog jack on the iPod and amp.) It may not make a difference on standard quality headphones or earbuds, but one can easily hear the difference a better DAC makes on headphones that cost hundreds of dollars. Of course I didn't invest in my headphone amp (and headphones) set up to listen to music on my iPhone. But it sure would be nice and handy if I can use an iPod as my digital source. Or maybe get a digital music stream from an iTunes account in the iCould or from an Apple Music account using an iPhone.
Are you comparing this dedicated USB DAC with the one forced to be put in a lightning connector? This is the thing we are talking about, not a HiFiman, Chord, Schitt or even a FiiO DAC
No, But I can use that same digital signal for my HiFiman headphone amp. Whatever, any external DAC has got to be getter than the one built into the phone. And there is still one built into the iPhone, so one don't need an external DAC at all. Just an adapter to convert the 3.5mm plug to a lightning connector.
"...decades' worth of audio equipment investments will be made obsolete overnight." Seriously? Decades??? Yes, this'll finally be the end of vinyl...
It isn't just selling adaptors, it's probably not having to include earpods - after all, not everybody gets that much use out of them (kinda like cd/dvd in your mac), and for those who do, it's dongleable...
(What I really want in a hand-held device is one of those things the cop uses on that new show "The Expanse"...bet it doesn't need jacks or connectors for anything!)
All of which 1) should make people question this rumor and 2) IF it is true assume a lot of research was done before the decision was made. Something like this could absolutely impact iPhone sales in a negative way. LOTS more people use the headphone jack than used 30-pin accessories. And people that have expensive headphones aren't going to toss those for new lightening or BT ones, they'll either not upgrade their phone or get a different phone.
On the flip side though, if most iPhone owners use the included EarPods then they'll just use whatever replacement Apple puts in the box so I don't see how this is a big money maker for Apple.
I don't agree with this assertion… I feel Apple is far more motivated by profit margins these days than research into what users want. Case in point… I know an older person who is having a hell of a time trying to using the remote on the new Apple TV because his hands shake. You'd figure good product research would have seen that coming.
So Apple released a MacBook with no ports other than usb, and you guys are now surprised that this might be happening? In the future I see iPhones only coming with usb c....
if we let you guys tell it, the iPhone will still use a headphone jack 100 years from now.
I think this interview with Gruber pretty much explains Apple's position. Schiller says it's all about pushing technology forward. Around the 53:00 mark, Schiller explains thinness, 16gb storage, and single USB-c on the MacBook. I suspect these principles cross all products and why we may see the removal of the 3.5mm jack.
Sure, it's moving us more quickly into the wireless world. We need to start somewhere. But I'm not sure I believe or agree with him with respect to thinness. It's here where I think they're making the wrong compromises.
This Apple-obsession with thinness is getting asinine
It has absolutely nothing to do with thinness and everything to do with just making more money.
The Vivo X5 Max is 4.75mm thick and still has a 3.5mm headphone jack. The 6S is 7.1mm thick. The internal space argument is as much hogwash as the need for nano sims vs micro sims, something which was quite apparent when I opened my daughters 5 to install a new battery.
No, this is about money. 50 million Lightning to 3.5mm adapters at $30 each with an 80% markup - ka-ching! 50 million beats headphones with lossy bluetooth and an 80% markup - ka-Ching. license fees from 200 million third party lightning chip sporting headphones and earbuds - ka-ching.
Meanwhile the Samsung S7 will reportedly include the best portable device DAC ever made with 129dB dynamic range and -120dB (0.0001%) harmonic distortion.
Not having to pay for a decent DAC in 80 million phones - ka-ching!
This is the only explanation that makes sense. It also places the Beats acquisition in new light. Apple probably new several years ago that they were gonna drop the 3.5mm headphones jack for wireless headphones, which would lead to mass purchases of new headphones, so they figured they'd pick up Beats for cheap and corner that market they will be creating.
Are you comparing this dedicated USB DAC with the one forced to be put in a lightning connector? This is the thing we are talking about, not a HiFiman, Chord, Schitt or even a FiiO DAC
No, But I can use that same digital signal for my HiFiman headphone amp. Whatever, any external DAC has got to be getter than the one built into the phone. And there is still one built into the iPhone, so one don't need an external DAC at all. Just an adapter to convert the 3.5mm plug to a lightning connector.
Lightning connector doesn't have analog output so yes, you need an external DAC and no, any external DAC is not better than the one in the iPhones, an especially, ones put inside a Lightning connector.
Comments
How is pushing technology forward requiring the use of a DAC inside a cable or a headphone? The same or worse DAC that we already have in the device. Headphones drivers work with analog signal, you always will need the conversion and the loses in the cable are negligible
Better DAC. I have a USB DAC in my HiFi Man headphone amp which I can use with my laptop USB port but not the 3.5mm port of an iPod. (But i can still use the iPod by using the 3.5mm analog jack on the iPod and amp.) It may not make a difference on standard quality headphones or earbuds, but one can easily hear the difference a better DAC makes on headphones that cost hundreds of dollars. Of course I didn't invest in my headphone amp (and headphones) set up to listen to music on my iPhone. But it sure would be nice and handy if I can use an iPod as my digital source. Or maybe get a digital music stream from an iTunes account in the iCould or from an Apple Music account using an iPhone.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004357WL8/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687682&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B004I3WB5M&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1KAXEKFJG139J1MYH90Q
It's the future and like someone else said, people will probably use what is included in the box. For the other < 1% there will be adapters.
BTW, this is just some unsbstantiated rumor. No need to tear into each other for this.
Are you comparing this dedicated USB DAC with the one forced to be put in a lightning connector? This is the thing we are talking about, not a HiFiman, Chord, Schitt or even a FiiO DAC
I have literally never plugged anything into the 3.5mm jack in any iPhone (since 2007) and doubt if I'm alone. All those that spend hundreds on headphones and think they are more than a negligible minority are deluded themselves. I would easily bet the majority of Jack users use the included phones from Apple and will continue to do so.
Lightning connector doesn't pass analog signal, it can't do that because of crosstalk and interference
If you care about audio quality, you should welcome being able to get a digital signal from the iPhone, so you can use a better built in DAC in your headphones (or headphone amp). No one I know, that care about audio quality, actually thinks that the analog signal from an iPhone or iPod is actually a high quality signal. There's a reason why there are special headphones made for MP3 devices, they correct for the short coming of the analog signal from them. Listen to the analog signal from any MP3 player with high end headphones made for a stereo system and you'll hear the difference from it and a basic home stereo.
Seriously? Decades???
Yes, this'll finally be the end of vinyl...
It isn't just selling adaptors, it's probably not having to include earpods - after all,
not everybody gets that much use out of them (kinda like cd/dvd in your mac),
and for those who do, it's dongleable...
(What I really want in a hand-held device is one of those things the cop uses
on that new show "The Expanse"...bet it doesn't need jacks or connectors for anything!)
I don't agree with this assertion… I feel Apple is far more motivated by profit margins these days than research into what users want. Case in point… I know an older person who is having a hell of a time trying to using the remote on the new Apple TV because his hands shake. You'd figure good product research would have seen that coming.
if we let you guys tell it, the iPhone will still use a headphone jack 100 years from now.
Around the 53:00 mark, Schiller explains thinness, 16gb storage, and single USB-c on the MacBook. I suspect these principles cross all products and why we may see the removal of the 3.5mm jack.
Sure, it's moving us more quickly into the wireless world. We need to start somewhere.
But I'm not sure I believe or agree with him with respect to thinness. It's here where I think they're making the wrong compromises.