Turkey's deputy PM encourages Apple to move in wake of EU tax ruling

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 98
    Gymkhana said:
    Yeah, go ahead, Timmy, relocate the damn company to Turkey.  Try and scam yet another nation out of paying your taxes.
    You've got to be pretty stupid to think that Erdogan's government is so stupid.....turkey alert!
  • Reply 62 of 98
    blitz1 said:
    Soli said:
    AdBrit said:
    In the end, all this is Apple trying to avoid paying taxes, something all of us do compliantly without begging for exception. Apple and other Corporations are simply moochers of a countries wealth whether that be the consumer's dollars or the consumer's labour. They are transient welfare bums.
    What should a corporation do? Pay taxes beyond what they are legally obligated to pay in order to appease you? I certainly have accountants looking for every possible way I can reduce how much I legally owe the gov't. You don't do that?
    Legally obligated to pay in Ireland is 12,5%.
    Not 1%, not 0.005%
    Too funny, and there are pro-multinational zombies out there, representing on behalf of the big multinational corporations, by giving dislikes to your remarks.  As if these big multinational corporations would do anything but squash these little fanboys like the cockroaches they are.  Would sure be nice if Apple and other multinational corporations actually paid a rate close to what individual taxpayers pay here in the US.
    crowleycnocbui
  • Reply 63 of 98
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    asdasd said:
    When did he say that? 

    I think he said the lack of tax certainty may cause issues for investment in the future. 

    I have no doubt this is a largely anti-US crusade by the EU. It's hard to believe that they couldn't find a way to apply the state aid law retrospectively to European HQ'ed companies but they haven't. 

    I meant european countries have real tax havens - like jersey in the UK. Banks move money around Europe all the time. The investigations are (with the exception of Fiat) all US companies. 
    I saw it here. Probably no less reliable than most analyst rumors and headlines that we read about, like from Digitimes.

    Apple has already threatened to cut jobs in Europe after Brussels ordered it to repay £11billion ($14.5billion) - the biggest tax bill ever imposed outside the US.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3764393/Apple-faces-bill-billions-Irish-tax-affairs-EU-rules-company-effectively-received-state-aid.html#ixzz4Ir5ks5ko 

    netmage
  • Reply 64 of 98
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    apple ][ said:
    cropr said:
     You are extremely naive.

    We'll see who the naive one ends up being.

    I think that it's the EU who is very naive, and quite foolish.

    Tim Cook has already threatened to cut jobs in Europe, and good for him! Go Tim Cook! :#

    Destroy them and crush them! 

    Because withdrawal of Apple products would really damage EU. Like, they could never recover from moving to Android... not that many have to move, Android already leading over iOS with something like 82:16 in market share %.

    I'm sure Samsung, Sony, HTC, LG... resurrecting Nokia (if rumors about new Android handsets are true)... Chinese brands on raise... will gladly step up and cover that %. And Apple will lose market with 750 million potential buyers.

    Sounds like a right thing to do for Apple.

    cnocbui
  • Reply 65 of 98
    ben20ben20 Posts: 126member
    I bet Apple is quickly shifting back to good old USA once we lower the coporate tax rate in the USA to 15% 
    after the November elections ?

    Maybe they even bring more manufacturing back, would be nice to have more Apple products 
    Made in USA.
  • Reply 66 of 98
    boltsfan17boltsfan17 Posts: 2,279member
    nikon133 said:
    apple ][ said:
    cropr said:
     You are extremely naive.

    We'll see who the naive one ends up being.

    I think that it's the EU who is very naive, and quite foolish.

    Tim Cook has already threatened to cut jobs in Europe, and good for him! Go Tim Cook! :#

    Destroy them and crush them! 

    Because withdrawal of Apple products would really damage EU. Like, they could never recover from moving to Android... not that many have to move, Android already leading over iOS with something like 82:16 in market share %.

    I'm sure Samsung, Sony, HTC, LG... resurrecting Nokia (if rumors about new Android handsets are true)... Chinese brands on raise... will gladly step up and cover that %. And Apple will lose market with 750 million potential buyers.

    Sounds like a right thing to do for Apple.

    Cutting jobs doesn't mean the withdrawal of Apple products. 
    williamlondon
  • Reply 67 of 98
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    ben20 said:
    I bet Apple is quickly shifting back to good old USA once we lower the coporate tax rate in the USA to 15% 
    after the November elections ?

    Maybe they even bring more manufacturing back, would be nice to have more Apple products 
    Made in USA.
    You won't see lower corporate tax rates in the US no matter who is elected. As for bringing jobs back some of that might happen but I think you will see a bigger push to leave China especially if they start to steal more territory from other nations. Sadly I think we are quickly head towards another world war that will start with China attacking somebody. It doesn't matter who that somebody is either, China is gearing up for a major expansion in the Pacific and everybody there knows that. China is where Apple has excessive exposure and frankly Turkey would be a safer bet right now.
    calebbenbekke
  • Reply 68 of 98
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,429member
    What part of 'already gained' was not clear?
    The impression imho was that you were implying becoming a nato signatory was a recent events.  Apologies given.
    No problem.  English can be easily misconstrued in brief posts.
    singularity
  • Reply 69 of 98
    Turkey's economy is far better than EU countries. 
    Turkish people saved their democracy while EU and US governments hypocritically waited to see if coup were succesful. Some organziations like CFR even helped and openly wished that the coup attempt was necessary.
    Being an enemy of truth, some western countries (not its honest to God citizens but mostly politicians) opened war against Erdogan.
    It is economy that create wars. 
    Before some scorners throw stones to Turkey, i urge them to check their country's past.

    Mehmet Simsek openly asked Apple to come to Turkey. I personally believe it will be a great opportunity for both US and Turkey.
    Nowadays inherent "give your word but you dont have to keep your word policy" of USA will backfire. Since Turks are not native americans and Turkey is not a reservation. 
  • Reply 70 of 98
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,429member
    nikon133 said:
    I was there last year and most business people I spoke to were a bit ticked off they were rejected but then went on to say in hindsight they were glad they were.  At that time their economy was doing way better than many EU countries.  The complication for the west in all this of course is Turkey guarding the only access the Russia Navy has to Sevastopol.  It's a choke hold the west needs to keep and bribery, sorry I mean negotiations will be needed I'm sure.  NATO membership already gained so what's next absent EU membership I wonder.
    I don't understand west's obsession with Russia. Personally, I'm more worried with growth of radicals in middle-east, which Turkey just might be a big part of.

    Additionally... in any real crisis, I cannot see Turkey being really able to guard that access. Not to mention that they seem to be keen on switching sides or, at least, sitting on two chairs, for as much as it benefits them. How long did it take them to hug and kiss with Putin, after grounding that Russian jet?

    I don't see them as valuable and trustworthy partner, not under current management at least.

    I don't disagree.  I guess a cruise missile or two can be launched just as easily from the Mediterranean these days.  It's Cold War thinking to attribute too much importance to guarding narrow sea straights.  My bad.
  • Reply 71 of 98
    nikon133 said:
    I was there last year and most business people I spoke to were a bit ticked off they were rejected but then went on to say in hindsight they were glad they were.  At that time their economy was doing way better than many EU countries.  The complication for the west in all this of course is Turkey guarding the only access the Russia Navy has to Sevastopol.  It's a choke hold the west needs to keep and bribery, sorry I mean negotiations will be needed I'm sure.  NATO membership already gained so what's next absent EU membership I wonder.
    I don't understand west's obsession with Russia. Personally, I'm more worried with growth of radicals in middle-east, which Turkey just might be a big part of.

    Additionally... in any real crisis, I cannot see Turkey being really able to guard that access. Not to mention that they seem to be keen on switching sides or, at least, sitting on two chairs, for as much as it benefits them. How long did it take them to hug and kiss with Putin, after grounding that Russian jet?

    I don't see them as valuable and trustworthy partner, not under current management at least.

    I don't disagree.  I guess a cruise missile or two can be launched just as easily from the Mediterranean these days.  It's Cold War thinking to attribute too much importance to guarding narrow sea straights.  My bad.
    let me smite this scorner. the creator of terrorism is western countries. Turkey does not harbor OpusDei like terrorist Fetullah Gulen. The best times of Turkey is under Erdogan but hey, not everyone liked Steve Jobs style. I remember people like these calling him "middle eastern" And hey, face-a-book and check western history and make sure that you understand all colonialists were calling the leaders of free countries "dictators" and they are the ones not keeping their words. Just a reminder. Yet in Syria West has the blood in their hands but oh, Turkey accomodates 3 million refugees. And some Western hypocrites just watch the news, following their lusts not take heed of whats going on in the world or give a hand to a refugee. But "Erdogan is a dictator." How can a view become so twisted??

  • Reply 72 of 98
    latifbplatifbp Posts: 544member
    cropr said:
    apple ][ said:
    This is yet another case of the dictatorial EU dictating their dictatorial ways to their slave countries and their subjects, in this case Ireland.

    Apple made a deal in good faith with Ireland, and now the EU comes along and tells Ireland that the deal is invalid. 

    The Irish are slaves to the EU, and the Irish are not in control of their own country.

    They should get the hell out of the EU, if they were smart.

    And Apple needs to set up shop in a place that controls their own destiny and is actually in charge of their own affairs.


    If you were smart, you wouldn't post such silly things.

    At least 50% of the foreign investments in Ireland are made because Ireland is a EU member state.  If Ireland leaves the EU, it would simply collapse

    Do you really think that the financial experts of Apple were not aware of the risks they were taking when the agreement with the Irish tax administration was made?  You are extremely naive.

    There was never a 'deal' made. Apple has had this tax rate since 1980. Tim Cook is bound as a head of a publicly traded company to be honest and forthright, with criminal penalties if he is not. You should read the public statement Apple made and Tim Cook stood by before you start spouting nonsense on here that is what is truly naive. Or do you think Apple's financial experts anticipated the formation of the EU way back in 1980 and telegraphed what to do in this very situation now 36 years ago? Maybe they have the Time Machine that is still not known to the public perhaps??? /s
    edited August 2016 nolamacguy
  • Reply 73 of 98
    latifbplatifbp Posts: 544member
    There is no chance of Turkey being in the EU this decade
    Turkey has a special economic arrangement (a customs union) with the EU on trade and tariffs.

    The larger problem there is high political risk, and the heightened risk of terrorism.
    But if Apple wants to win back the EU they have to show her that Apple has options.
  • Reply 74 of 98
    latifbplatifbp Posts: 544member
    rune66 said:
    Soli said:
    lmac said:
    Apple is not breaking the laws of Ireland, but doing what any business with an army of accountants does; find ways to minimize taxation. If Ireland wants to change its laws, fine, but it cannot collect taxes retroactively. Part of the reason Apple is in Ireland is the favorable tax rates, a well educated population of English speakers, and a relatively low wage structure for the E.U. This is just posturing. It will blow over. If it doesn't, Apple will pick up stakes and go someplace more favorable. India is looking good.
    If Ireland changes their laws or if the EU changes laws that disallow Apple to continue using this legal loophole across the EU (which would also affect countries other companies) then they have a right to do so, but I don't get how they can ethically back-charge a company for maximizing their use of the current tax law.
    Well this is not a matter of Apple using a legal loophole. It's a matter of Ireland breaking EU law by allowing Apple to pay less than 2% tax on profit obtained in the entire EU. If Apple is stupid enough not to have foreseen this coming they should be fined for stupidity. But of course this is not the case. Apple has known all the time that they could be at risk but took the chance hoping they were able to bully their way through. The second part of this case is that for Apple to have been able to channel all EU-profits to Ireland they have used transfer pricing which is illegal. Tom Cook is a hypocrite. If Apple doesn't want to pay they should leave the European market.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2013/05/21/the-real-story-about-apples-tax-avoidance-how-ordinary-it-is/#632ea1a94d94
    Then you're accusing Tim Cook of lying in his public statements Apple published today publicly? That's quite a serious accusation. As the CEO of a publicly traded company he is responsible to be honest about the business dealings of Apple to the public. You think Tim Cook would risk criminal charges by lying boldly in his publicly published statement today? Who's the idiot?
  • Reply 75 of 98
    latifbplatifbp Posts: 544member
    apple ][ said:
    asdasd said:
    When did he say that? 

    I think he said the lack of tax certainty may cause issues for investment in the future. 

    I have no doubt this is a largely anti-US crusade by the EU. It's hard to believe that they couldn't find a way to apply the state aid law retrospectively to European HQ'ed companies but they haven't. 

    I meant european countries have real tax havens - like jersey in the UK. Banks move money around Europe all the time. The investigations are (with the exception of Fiat) all US companies. 
    I saw it here. Probably no less reliable than most analyst rumors and headlines that we read about, like from Digitimes.

    Apple has already threatened to cut jobs in Europe after Brussels ordered it to repay £11billion ($14.5billion) - the biggest tax bill ever imposed outside the US.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3764393/Apple-faces-bill-billions-Irish-tax-affairs-EU-rules-company-effectively-received-state-aid.html#ixzz4Ir5ks5ko 

    That's twisting Tim Cook's statements pretty badly. He said it would set a precedent that would give companies trepidation about future investments in the EU and that this could impact the amount of jobs available to those in the EU. He never threatened to cut jobs.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 76 of 98
    latifbplatifbp Posts: 544member

    nikon133 said:
    I was there last year and most business people I spoke to were a bit ticked off they were rejected but then went on to say in hindsight they were glad they were.  At that time their economy was doing way better than many EU countries.  The complication for the west in all this of course is Turkey guarding the only access the Russia Navy has to Sevastopol.  It's a choke hold the west needs to keep and bribery, sorry I mean negotiations will be needed I'm sure.  NATO membership already gained so what's next absent EU membership I wonder.
    I don't understand west's obsession with Russia. Personally, I'm more worried with growth of radicals in middle-east, which Turkey just might be a big part of.

    Additionally... in any real crisis, I cannot see Turkey being really able to guard that access. Not to mention that they seem to be keen on switching sides or, at least, sitting on two chairs, for as much as it benefits them. How long did it take them to hug and kiss with Putin, after grounding that Russian jet?

    I don't see them as valuable and trustworthy partner, not under current management at least.

    I don't disagree.  I guess a cruise missile or two can be launched just as easily from the Mediterranean these days.  It's Cold War thinking to attribute too much importance to guarding narrow sea straights.  My bad.
    let me smite this scorner. the creator of terrorism is western countries. Turkey does not harbor OpusDei like terrorist Fetullah Gulen. The best times of Turkey is under Erdogan but hey, not everyone liked Steve Jobs style. I remember people like these calling him "middle eastern" And hey, face-a-book and check western history and make sure that you understand all colonialists were calling the leaders of free countries "dictators" and they are the ones not keeping their words. Just a reminder. Yet in Syria West has the blood in their hands but oh, Turkey accomodates 3 million refugees. And some Western hypocrites just watch the news, following their lusts not take heed of whats going on in the world or give a hand to a refugee. But "Erdogan is a dictator." How can a view become so twisted??

    You don't recall people protesting Erdogan and being hosed and tear gassed 2-3 years ago? 
  • Reply 77 of 98
    Grimzahn said:
    Violating the law and then moving would make me switch to Android.  Going to watch veryt closely Mr Cooks stance and actions.
    Troll post of the day...so far.
    Obvious do our views on this matter differ. But the truth is, naming an opinion you don't like of someone else trolling makes you the troll.
    Law is the law. That count for any country, especial yours.
  • Reply 78 of 98
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    Grimzahn said:
    Grimzahn said:
    Violating the law and then moving would make me switch to Android.  Going to watch veryt closely Mr Cooks stance and actions.
    Troll post of the day...so far.
    Obvious do our views on this matter differ. But the truth is, naming an opinion you don't like of someone else trolling makes you the troll.
    Law is the law. That count for any country, especial yours.
    your post is nonsense. Apple opened in Ireland with this rate in 1980 -- 13 years prior to the formation of the EU. 
    Solilatifbp
  • Reply 79 of 98
    croprcropr Posts: 1,053member
    latifbp said:
    cropr said:
    apple ][ said:
    This is yet another case of the dictatorial EU dictating their dictatorial ways to their slave countries and their subjects, in this case Ireland.

    Apple made a deal in good faith with Ireland, and now the EU comes along and tells Ireland that the deal is invalid. 

    The Irish are slaves to the EU, and the Irish are not in control of their own country.

    They should get the hell out of the EU, if they were smart.

    And Apple needs to set up shop in a place that controls their own destiny and is actually in charge of their own affairs.


    If you were smart, you wouldn't post such silly things.

    At least 50% of the foreign investments in Ireland are made because Ireland is a EU member state.  If Ireland leaves the EU, it would simply collapse

    Do you really think that the financial experts of Apple were not aware of the risks they were taking when the agreement with the Irish tax administration was made?  You are extremely naive.

    There was never a 'deal' made. Apple has had this tax rate since 1980. Tim Cook is bound as a head of a publicly traded company to be honest and forthright, with criminal penalties if he is not. You should read the public statement Apple made and Tim Cook stood by before you start spouting nonsense on here that is what is truly naive. Or do you think Apple's financial experts anticipated the formation of the EU way back in 1980 and telegraphed what to do in this very situation now 36 years ago? Maybe they have the Time Machine that is still not known to the public perhaps??? /s
    Tim Cook is not a kind a religion you have to believe in. He, like any other CEO of a big company, is not afraid of a lie if it is in the interests of Apple. 
    If you read the whole document the  EU has published with this case, you will discover that there are indeed arrangements made between the Irish tax administration and Apple Ireland
  • Reply 80 of 98
    blitz1 said:
    Soli said:
    AdBrit said:
    In the end, all this is Apple trying to avoid paying taxes, something all of us do compliantly without begging for exception. Apple and other Corporations are simply moochers of a countries wealth whether that be the consumer's dollars or the consumer's labour. They are transient welfare bums.
    What should a corporation do? Pay taxes beyond what they are legally obligated to pay in order to appease you? I certainly have accountants looking for every possible way I can reduce how much I legally owe the gov't. You don't do that?
    Legally obligated to pay in Ireland is 12,5%.
    Not 1%, not 0.005%
    Thats not the legally obligated tax rate, that's the base company tax rate. It's highly unlikely that any manufacturer who sells in Ireland pays 12.5% - your legally obligated tax rate will very from the base, depending on many factors.

    Ireland does not have an issue with how much tax Apple paid. Ireland have publically stated they disagree with the decision.

    Apple has had this setup in Ireland since 1980, and after 36 years, the EU has retrospectively ruled it's illegal state aid.

    Its an interesting issue of sovereignty , and the retrospective nature of the ruling is understandably worrying. It's one thing to say : this stops now, and completely different to go back 15-20 years and require back payment. 


    Soli1st
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