We need to strengthen USA's intelligence safeguards and punish by death(him/her and their family) if anyone from inside leak any intelligence.
Am I reading this right -- are you honestly suggesting we execute these document leakers and their families? That strikes me as absurd. Something N. Korea would do.
I see your point but WikiLeaks has released information on U.S. troop movements in Afghanistan and Iraq. That type of information can get troops killed. People who release something like that should be tried for treason and ultimately executed. Now executing their families as another poster mentioned is something that should not happen for the obvious reasons.
The article states not sure if CIA spies on Americans. Yes they do and they get around the legal loophole by getting their information from MI5/6 in the UK as all the evidence and leaked docs show, these intelligence agencies are all in bed with each other.. 1984
We know from Snowden's disclosures that yes, in fact, these agencies spy on "normal" Americans all the time. At the NSA there were reports of people using the spy apparatus for their personal interests on many occasions.
We need to strengthen USA's intelligence safeguards and punish by death(him/her and their family) if anyone from inside leak any intelligence. Today, it may be silly inforamtion that CIA trying to create tools to hack IOS but tomorrow it can leak about the brave intelligence undersover agent's names which can put their life in harms-way, get killed.
Statistically, Americans are at greater risk of being struck by lightening than killed by terrorists. Never mind, the risks of pollution, car crashes, medical mistakes, etc. The real irony here is that we spend a trillion a year defending Americans from the least likely threats. Is it the most glamorous? Easiest to scare people with? Sure! This thread is proof of how easy it is to get the citizens all spun up and emotional. It's BS. We have enough firepower on the Truman and one Ohio-class sub to return humanity to the dark ages. How can we be worried! The CIA would literally save more lives helping older ladies cross the street.
Some live in a fantasy where all is good and right in the world. Intelligence services provide the safe and insulated environment to exist for all of us, including those folks who believe such fiction. Diplomacy via a Foreign Ministry, a UN and such are the preferred way to keep World peace and commerce flowing. Absent that or as an adjunct, intelligence services provide a vital means to separate out and deal with the harsher realities. A final solution to the worlds troubles is open warfare. Yes one Trident submarine can wipe out all Russian cities of 500,000 or more. We have 12 of these submarines. The Russians and Chinese have similar weapons. The least likely threats are the gravest threats.
It it is part of our fortune, living in this country, to be able to have complacent and uncritical opinion of the present world condition when it doesn't align with how we would want things to exist, i.e. Personal privacy. Thank goodness the IC is paying attention to the big problems.
if we need to keep our eye on a bouncing ball, it seems much more likely that our personal freedoms of speech and assembly, press freedom, health issues, what (recreational) psychotropics one can ingest, women's rights, voting rights, quality education and many other liberties; these are the topics that are truly in jeopardy. Presently, are attention is being purposefully diverted from these issues by an Administration that is up to its eyeballs with their anti democratic bad business, including with Americas greatest post WW ll historical foe.
...If it gets out of hand we will close the thread.
Calls for "punishing an entire family with death" is certainly the very definition of "gotten out of hand." I personally reflect upon calls for "family executions" with the greatest horror and disdain; yet I, like Patrick Henry, am a staunch proponent of freedom.
Regardless of how political or hot-button the issue, and regardless of how some forum posters support tyranny with excessively strong words, I say keep the forum open for reasoned discussion. Don't let a minority spoil it for the majority. Freedom in discussion forums like this is good. And freedom from death for innocent families of "the accused" is also good. Freedom is risky, but it works. Our very humanity cries out for freedom. If anything has made America (inventor of the internet) "great" it is freedom. Let Freedom Reign, both in this forum and in the world at large.
...If it gets out of hand we will close the thread.
Calls for "punishing an entire family with death" is certainly the very definition of "gotten out of hand." I personally reflect upon calls for "family executions" with the greatest horror and disdain; yet I, like Patrick Henry, am a staunch proponent of freedom.
Regardless of how political or hot-button the issue, and regardless of how some forum posters support tyranny with excessively strong words, I say keep the forum open for reasoned discussion. Don't let a minority spoil it for the majority. Freedom in discussion forums like this is good. And freedom from death for innocent families of "the accused" is also good. Freedom is risky, but it works. Our very humanity cries out for freedom. If anything has made America (inventor of the internet) "great" it is freedom. Let Freedom Reign, both in this forum and in the world at large.
We saw the post. One of you even reported it. While this is a hair to split, the poster in question didn't call for any forumers' deaths, so for now, we're still good.
We're leaving the thread open, as long as you all behave with each other, and treat each other as reasonable human beings. As a reminder, the forum traffic is less than 5% of AI's traffic, but is Google-searchable. Some of us work here -- so don't ruin it for us.
Just the tip of the iceberg I'm afraid. The more IoT stuff we put into our homes, the greater the attack vector the bad guys have to aim at. Smart TV's, Light Bulbs, Fridges, Amazon and Google boxes used as voice assistants.... the list is growing and it is not only phones and computers.
Which is why I have stayed away from IoT devices!!! I don't own any Smart TV's. Well I just gone a Sony one for the bedroom, but it's limited and there's no camera or mic's on it. If you're going to get into this stuff, use the Apple Homekit stuff which is using strong Encryption. It costs these company's a few bucks more to use, but it's worth it.
We need to strengthen USA's intelligence safeguards and punish by death(him/her and their family) if anyone from inside leak any intelligence.
Am I reading this right -- are you honestly suggesting we execute these document leakers and their families? That strikes me as absurd. Something N. Korea would do.
You or me are not defending USA and their people against all foreign and terrorist organization who constantly trying to find a way to hurt innocent Americans. My kids are born here but I am not born American but I love this country more than anyone to not allow anyone to harm Americans in any way, FBI or CIA has no intentions to harm normal/regular Americans because it's their duty to defend them. So, let them do their job if they hack my iPhone or android phone, long as they stay focus defending America/Americans..Our court system is so liberal that criminals get easy pass and stay out of prison and continue harming innocent Americans.
Why do you love this country so much if they are secretly infecting all of our devices and spying on everyone? Sounds like more oppressive regimes are up your alley or at least what you seem to want. Any intelligence agent will tell you that US is collecting too much data on everyone which is actually harming Americans in both obvious ways and less obvious ones. We know that our own government is regularly hacked by somesic and foreign agents. So now all of those hackers who wish to do us harm have data on us too because the US insists on tracking and recording as much as they can. There is no way to securely store all of that data so it just sits on servers waiting to be hacked or sold to highest bidder.
But that's long term problems that will affects the US citizens 5-10 years from now. By collecting too much data, they are not able to effectively filter and target the right people in time to take action. This was partly the reason why 911 was actually pulled off. We didn't have actionable data and the agencies weren't cooperating. Fast forward 16 years and nothing has changed except we have less rights and are in more danger now from US government and a few terrotists too. Meanwhile, the leakers that you want executed are the real heroes - they are just a new breed of founding fathers for the US. If government can't be honest with its own people maybe it shouldn't exist.
Some live in a fantasy where all is good and right in the world. Intelligence services provide the safe and insulated environment to exist for all of us, including those folks who believe such fiction. Diplomacy via a Foreign Ministry, a UN and such are the preferred way to keep World peace and commerce flowing. Absent that or as an adjunct, intelligence services provide a vital means to separate out and deal with the harsher realities. A final solution to the worlds troubles is open warfare. Yes one Trident submarine can wipe out all Russian cities of 500,000 or more. We have 12 of these submarines. The Russians and Chinese have similar weapons. The least likely threats are the gravest threats.
It it is part of our fortune, living in this country, to be able to have complacent and uncritical opinion of the present world condition when it doesn't align with how we would want things to exist, i.e. Personal privacy. Thank goodness the IC is paying attention to the big problems.
if we need to keep our eye on a bouncing ball, it seems much more likely that our personal freedoms of speech and assembly, press freedom, health issues, what (recreational) psychotropics one can ingest, women's rights, voting rights, quality education and many other liberties; these are the topics that are truly in jeopardy. Presently, are attention is being purposefully diverted from these issues by an Administration that is up to its eyeballs with their anti democratic bad business, including with Americas greatest post WW ll historical foe.
I see some death pretty much every day. Right here on the Good Ship Lollipop. In the body of America, the intelligence communities and the defense department are the immune system. The risk is allowing autoimmune disease. Allowing the immune system to attack the host is not acceptable. The fact that our intelligence communities are actively, relentlessly attacking the American people by trying to gather their personal data, means that freedom and democracy are under attack. I'll take the risks associated with having person privacy and uninformed liberty, over the tyranny of the government knowing everything I do, buy and think. Notice that in the latter paradigm assimilation eventually becomes compulsory to avoid incarceration. Fantasy Land, is where you assume absolute power will not be absolutely corrupt.
In a real sense, Apple may be doing more to protect democracy in America than the US government. Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not having you.
WikiLeaks has been co-opted by the GRU. A front, pretending to be all about freedom of information and openness, but leaks are exclusively devoted to destabilizing enemies of Russia. When was the last time they exposed any embarrassing data about Putin or Russia? That's right, never. I guess they don't have any dirty laundry. Snowden has been compromised completely.
WikiLeaks has been co-opted by the GRU. A front, pretending to be all about freedom of information and openness, but leaks are exclusively devoted to destabilizing enemies of Russia. When was the last time they exposed any embarrassing data about Putin or Russia? That's right, never. I guess they don't have any dirty laundry. Snowden has been compromised completely.
Why no leaks out of China? Why no leaks out of Iran... or North Korea? The simple answer? Because none of those countries have the freedoms or porosity the US has. Leakers are summarily executed instead of allowed to go on their merry way.
We need to strengthen USA's intelligence safeguards and punish by death(him/her and their family) if anyone from inside leak any intelligence. Today, it may be silly inforamtion that CIA trying to create tools to hack IOS but tomorrow it can leak about the brave intelligence undersover agent's names which can put their life in harms-way, get killed.
You're equating whistleblowers to treason and wanting us to put our head in the sand when there are real security risks. Unfortunately, not enough people are proactive enough in protecting themselves from threats.
We also see irrational outlets of fear. For example, people on this forum afraid that the Amazon Echo listening for the Alexa keyword means that it's recording everything, yet not once considering that their PC's microphone could be recording everything without their knowledge. Where is the logic in thinking that because Amazon says they listen for a keyword that it's any less secure than your PC, which you could've given admin rights via an app that is connected to your mic, camera, and display?
Kill entire families? So the Geneva Convention or just any level of humanity is no longer a consideration? I don't want to live in that world.
I 100% agree with your response to the call for “punishment
by death” statement of the original post which is clearly absurd. But I’d
strongly contend that the release of these document would not be considered
whistleblowing (based on what we know so far).
This AI article is one of the few that discuss this issue in
a level-headed manner. Of course the CIA works on developing these tools!
Anyone who would be surprised by this would also be surprised to learn that
their local police department has jail cells (which could be used to wrongfully
imprison you) and the fire department has axes (which they could attack you
with). It’s their job to have these tools, and their responsibility to use them
lawfully. And if they don’t, they need to be held accountable, which is where
whistleblowing may come into the picture.
As far as I’m aware, so far these documents fall into the “that’s
their job” category and haven’t provided any evidence that they’ve been
illegally deployed against US citizens. Of course, there are entities out there
who love the FUD these “revelations” create even if they know that the facts
are being grossly misrepresented/misunderstood.
Except for the tools, not mentioned in the original AI article, that the CIA has employed to disguise their attacks by injecting and using 'signatures' of another country's hacker community. That is, they have the capacity to electronically 'attack' a system and leave behind footprints and signatures that make it appear an entity other than the CIA (or FBI, NSA, CIS etc) performed the hack. This knowledge can throw truth into the waste bin, for how can we now saw with absolute certainty that it was 'Russia hacked the DNC' as reported to the US news media by the FBI, yet could have been done by some other agency. Or would you believe that US is the only country able to disguise its hacking?
First. our government should not be spending so much money making the floors look so pretty, and putting big logos in the floor. Government workers should be working in spaces which were built by the lowest bidder with the cheapest available materials. The government is not a profit center so they should not be living like they make more money than the fortune 500 companies.
You get what you pay for. If you're not willing to invest in the staff and institutions that make your country what it is, pretty soon they won't.
We need to strengthen USA's intelligence safeguards and punish by death(him/her and their family) if anyone from inside leak any intelligence.
Am I reading this right -- are you honestly suggesting we execute these document leakers and their families? That strikes me as absurd. Something N. Korea would do.
You or me are not defending USA and their people against all foreign and terrorist organization who constantly trying to find a way to hurt innocent Americans. My kids are born here but I am not born American but I love this country more than anyone to not allow anyone to harm Americans in any way, FBI or CIA has no intentions to harm normal/regular Americans because it's their duty to defend them. So, let them do their job if they hack my iPhone or android phone, long as they stay focus defending America/Americans..Our court system is so liberal that criminals get easy pass and stay out of prison and continue harming innocent Americans.
That's an interesting, uh, world view, you live in.
First. our government should not be spending so much money making the floors look so pretty, and putting big logos in the floor. Government works should be working in spaces which were built by the lowest bidder with the cheapest available materials. The government is not a profit center so they should not be living like they make more money they the fortune 500 companies.
I would not count on the government not testing their exploits out on the general public, they have to do a proof of concept and prove they can hack into people systems. It not the fact they were listening and observing but what they did with the information. Then we have the FBI director come out and same American can not expect have privacy in the modern age, the above article is why.
I just Glad Apple is on all of our sides at this point, and Glad to hear Little Snitch may catch what our government is trying to do. I have use little snitch for many years and can not tell you how many apps do things you have no idea what they are doing. I have google total blocked from reporting home what I do.
Your ideas are not the way to attract the best and the brightest to work for our government agencies. Hardly think an agency seal and a janitor pushing a broom to keep a work environment clean is a waste of government resources.
You assume they are the best and the brightest, plus it is not about the building you work in, if someone is working for the government they do because they feel they have civic duty. This is why the government employs over 3 million people today, they love all those perks and jobs for Life. Glad to see Trump trying to put an end to that.
Also you know most companies are going to a very minimalist work environment, they been moving away from the fancy work spaces.
OK clearly you've never actually worked for the government, because that simply isn't true. Most of my department are contract staff -- and we're working for the government because it's a job like any other. If it sucks too badly, my team and I are out of there. Also, there is no "job for life", that's just gubmint fantasy. We're all at will workers.
Now you're moving the goalposts -- who said anything about "fancy" work spaces? That photo isn't fancy. You suggested the cheapest building materials available, but nothing about minimal design.
We need to strengthen USA's intelligence safeguards and punish by death(him/her and their family) if anyone from inside leak any intelligence. Today, it may be silly inforamtion that CIA trying to create tools to hack IOS but tomorrow it can leak about the brave intelligence undersover agent's names which can put their life in harms-way, get killed.
Statistically, Americans are at greater risk of being struck by lightening than killed by terrorists. Never mind, the risks of pollution, car crashes, medical mistakes, etc. The real irony here is that we spend a trillion a year defending Americans from the least likely threats. Is it the most glamorous? Easiest to scare people with? Sure! This thread is proof of how easy it is to get the citizens all spun up and emotional. It's BS. We have enough firepower on the Truman and one Ohio-class sub to return humanity to the dark ages. How can we be worried! The CIA would literally save more lives helping older ladies cross the street.
Agree 100%. More americans are lost to depression-induced suicide than terrorism -- yet no war on depression? What gives!? Oh yeah, no power to be had in a war on depression.
We need to strengthen USA's intelligence safeguards and punish by death(him/her and their family) if anyone from inside leak any intelligence. Today, it may be silly inforamtion that CIA trying to create tools to hack IOS but tomorrow it can leak about the brave intelligence undersover agent's names which can put their life in harms-way, get killed.
You're equating whistleblowers to treason and wanting us to put our head in the sand when there are real security risks. Unfortunately, not enough people are proactive enough in protecting themselves from threats.
We also see irrational outlets of fear. For example, people on this forum afraid that the Amazon Echo listening for the Alexa keyword means that it's recording everything, yet not once considering that their PC's microphone could be recording everything without their knowledge. Where is the logic in thinking that because Amazon says they listen for a keyword that it's any less secure than your PC, which you could've given admin rights via an app that is connected to your mic, camera, and display?
Kill entire families? So the Geneva Convention or just any level of humanity is no longer a consideration? I don't want to live in that world.
I 100% agree with your response to the call for “punishment
by death” statement of the original post which is clearly absurd. But I’d
strongly contend that the release of these document would not be considered
whistleblowing (based on what we know so far).
This AI article is one of the few that discuss this issue in
a level-headed manner. Of course the CIA works on developing these tools!
Anyone who would be surprised by this would also be surprised to learn that
their local police department has jail cells (which could be used to wrongfully
imprison you) and the fire department has axes (which they could attack you
with). It’s their job to have these tools, and their responsibility to use them
lawfully. And if they don’t, they need to be held accountable, which is where
whistleblowing may come into the picture.
As far as I’m aware, so far these documents fall into the “that’s
their job” category and haven’t provided any evidence that they’ve been
illegally deployed against US citizens. Of course, there are entities out there
who love the FUD these “revelations” create even if they know that the facts
are being grossly misrepresented/misunderstood.
Except for the tools, not mentioned in the original AI article, that the CIA has employed to disguise their attacks by injecting and using 'signatures' of another country's hacker community. That is, they have the capacity to electronically 'attack' a system and leave behind footprints and signatures that make it appear an entity other than the CIA (or FBI, NSA, CIS etc) performed the hack. This knowledge can throw truth into the waste bin, for how can we now saw with absolute certainty that it was 'Russia hacked the DNC' as reported to the US news media by the FBI, yet could have been done by some other agency. Or would you believe that US is the only country able to disguise its hacking?
Yes, this somewhat subtle distinction is completely lost (or is being actively ignored) by the so-called mainstream media coverage of what is happening. Theoretically, any and all hacking activities affecting political parties and figures could be the work of people or departments in our own government.
Yes, this somewhat subtle distinction is completely lost (or is being actively ignored) by the so-called mainstream media coverage of what is happening. Theoretically, any and all hacking activities affecting political parties and figures could be the work of people or departments in our own government.
It did not go un-noticed, but:
1) Shouldn't really surprise anybody, as spies do what spies do. 2) Is beyond the scope of this article.
I 100% guarantee that regardless of how long WikiLeaks works, that any "truth" won't out in any regard, in this matter. Both political sides will point the finger at the other, and party loyalists for both will either feign surprise or actually be surprised.
Who the population believes will be 100% related to ideology (like I said), and won't be swayed by anything. Just like always.
Anyway, kudos to AI readers for keeping this conversation sane.
Government works should be working in spaces which were built by the lowest bidder with the cheapest available materials. ;
That sounds great, but I'm not sure it's the best policy. Our city built a community college in the late 1960s using brick: the exterior of the future! Maintenance-free, right? Twenty-five years later, it started shedding them. So we had to blow the jack to have the bricks removed and the building shod in aluminum. Mayhap a higher bidder would have provided better value.
That's a bad brick job. My house is brick and over 100 years old. A few mortar touch ups here and there is all that I've needed to do.
Comments
"Most" is the wrong answer.
With the exploits now published and available to every asswipe, Apple better have a nine-alarm response in progress to plug the remaining holes.
It it is part of our fortune, living in this country, to be able to have complacent and uncritical opinion of the present world condition when it doesn't align with how we would want things to exist, i.e. Personal privacy. Thank goodness the IC is paying attention to the big problems.
if we need to keep our eye on a bouncing ball, it seems much more likely that our personal freedoms of speech and assembly, press freedom, health issues, what (recreational) psychotropics one can ingest, women's rights, voting rights, quality education and many other liberties; these are the topics that are truly in jeopardy. Presently, are attention is being purposefully diverted from these issues by an Administration that is up to its eyeballs with their anti democratic bad business, including with Americas greatest post WW ll historical foe.
Regardless of how political or hot-button the issue, and regardless of how some forum posters support tyranny with excessively strong words, I say keep the forum open for reasoned discussion. Don't let a minority spoil it for the majority. Freedom in discussion forums like this is good. And freedom from death for innocent families of "the accused" is also good. Freedom is risky, but it works. Our very humanity cries out for freedom. If anything has made America (inventor of the internet) "great" it is freedom. Let Freedom Reign, both in this forum and in the world at large.
But that's long term problems that will affects the US citizens 5-10 years from now. By collecting too much data, they are not able to effectively filter and target the right people in time to take action. This was partly the reason why 911 was actually pulled off. We didn't have actionable data and the agencies weren't cooperating. Fast forward 16 years and nothing has changed except we have less rights and are in more danger now from US government and a few terrotists too. Meanwhile, the leakers that you want executed are the real heroes - they are just a new breed of founding fathers for the US. If government can't be honest with its own people maybe it shouldn't exist.
OK clearly you've never actually worked for the government, because that simply isn't true. Most of my department are contract staff -- and we're working for the government because it's a job like any other. If it sucks too badly, my team and I are out of there. Also, there is no "job for life", that's just gubmint fantasy. We're all at will workers.
Now you're moving the goalposts -- who said anything about "fancy" work spaces? That photo isn't fancy. You suggested the cheapest building materials available, but nothing about minimal design.
1) Shouldn't really surprise anybody, as spies do what spies do.
2) Is beyond the scope of this article.