First look: IOGear USB-C Compact Docking Station returns legacy ports to MacBook, MacBook ...

AppleInsider · February 13, 2018 1:45PM

The IOGear USB-C Compact Docking Station with Power Delivery Pass-Thru is a port-replacement peripheral for USB 3.1 type C gear -- but isn't perfect for 4K.

We've looked at a lot of Thunderbolt 3 docks in the last year -- but this is not that. The IOGear USB-C Compact Docking Station with Power Delivery Pass-Thru is intended for USB 3.1 generation 1Type-C gear, adding the 2015 and 2016 MacBook to the list of compatible peripherals.

The latest incarnation, the GUD3C03 has a plethora of ports. Three USB 3.0 type A ports and a 2.5mm headphone and microphone jack are on one facet. The next side of the box has a HDMI port, a VGA port, Gigabit Ethernet, and a Mini DisplayPort. One more rotation brings a microSD card slot, a SD card reader, and the USB-C power pass-through port capable of providing 60W when connected to an external power supply.

There are some limitations of the USB 3.1 type C connectivity, given the limited bandwidth. The HDMI and Mini DisplayPort leverage USB-C Alternate Modes, and can push 4K resolution, but only at 30Hz, which may be a deal-breaker for some.

From a construction standpoint, the GUD3C03 is solid, and well built. We're not big fans of the integrated USB-C cable, as we've already found it to be uncomfortably short, and are concerned about what happens with use and abuse, given its portable nature. Without a USB-C socket to connect a removable cable to the computer, a kink in that cable can be fatal to the whole assembly.

Overall, our first impressions of the device are positive. The device isn't really intended to be a desktop docking station with the massive bandwidth that Thunderbolt 3 provides, nor is it priced in that range. We'll test it more, including connecting multiple mass-storage devices through it, and get back to you with longer-term use.

The IOGear USB-C Compact Docking Station with Power Delivery Pass-Thru, model GUD3C03 retails for $99.95. It can generally be purchased slightly cheaper directly from Amazon.

gutengel · February 13, 2018 2:13PM

Those ports holes seem poorly milled and oddly placed. I'd expect more manufacturing quality from a $100 gadget, I wonder how long it would last.

michelb76 · February 13, 2018 2:17PM

30Hz...who hates their eyesight so much that they want to use that? Who still releases a product that does not support at least 60hz?

randominternetperson · February 13, 2018 2:29PM

michelb76 said:

30Hz...who hates their eyesight so much that they want to use that? Who still releases a product that does not support at least 60hz?

I don't know, this seems like a pretty good value for a "road warrior" who might need their own adaptor to project their screen or run a powerpoint in a strange environment. But I agree as an everyday monitor option, it's not suited for that.

mscohen · February 13, 2018 3:30PM

So, how about someone making a charger that includes legacy ports?

randominternetperson · February 13, 2018 4:13PM

mscohen said:

So, how about someone making a charger that includes legacy ports?

What do you mean? You could argue that that's what this is (except you have to bring your own "brick").

sirozha · February 13, 2018 4:56PM

This is an excellent "dock" for a Retina MacBook (2015, 2016, 2017), since the MacBook has only one USB-C port.

One of the stupidest things that Apple has done is prevent the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks from connecting to the Apple's own LED Thunderbolt Display. The fact that Apple even released the Thunderbolt Display without a mDP capability was one of the first steps down the slippery slope of destroying Apple's own ecosystem. Only a bean counter would make a decision to release a new monitor that obsoletes most every computer that was released prior to it. How much would it take to keep the mDP capability in the Thunderbolt Display? By how much would it increase its cost - $10? I know Steve was still alive when the Thunderbolt Display was released in the summer of 2011, but Steve was very sick and was not running Apple anymore at that point.

In its infinite wisdom, Apple introduced the 2015 MacBook (followed by 2016 and 2017 MacBooks) that obsoleted the Thunderbolt Display. Do two wrongs make it right?

Even though theoretically the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks can connect to the Apple's LED Cinema Display, there was not a good solution for it, since the bean counter decided to put only one port in the MacBook. Hence, charging the MacBook and connecting to the LED Cinema Display was either not possible or required a series of daisy-chained dongles of dubious origin. So, basically, Tim the Bean Counter sent hundreds of thousands of Apple's long-term customers a big and juicy "FU" in the form of the Retina MacBook and the lack of Apple-manufactured dongles that would allow the Retina MacBook to connect to either of the Apple own LED displays.

Personally, I'm stuck with the 2015 15" MacBook Pro, which I consider to be the last real Pro laptop in the Apple's glorious history. I'm also using the LED Cinema Display with this Mac in a two-display setup (external LED Cinema Display and MacBook Pro's own display with the MacBook Pro being on an elevated stand). I have been using this setup for six years now, and it fits my needs perfectly. The LED Cinema Display (I bought it intentionally over the Thunderbolt Display even though both were available) works great for what I do. It's not a 4K display, but for my work, this display is phenomenal.

My problem is that I see no upgrade path for my 2015 MacBook Pro. I will NOT go down the 2016 MacBook Pro path, as I believe Apple had lost its mind when it removed all non-USB-C ports from the MacBook Pro in 2016 and instead put in four USB-C ports and a stupid Touch Bar. Unless Apple wises up, I'm done with the MacBook Pro line. Hence, the MacBook is my only hope going forward, and this dock is something that can serve as a stop gap for the next few years to tie me over with the Retina MacBook until Apple shareholders (to whom I belong as well) throw out the bean counter. If we don't do this now, the dude will completely destroy the Apple ecosystem, and with it, it will bring down Apple.

I'm still on the fence about getting a Retina MacBook, waiting for Apple to throw another curve ball this year with their MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Will traditional ports find their way back to the MacBook Pro line this year? Will the Retina MacBook acquire at least one more port? Thanks Tim for "f#ck1ng up" Steve's legacy with your total annihilation of the consistency and backward compatibility in the Apple ecosystem. You do not understand, Tim, what brought us as customers to Apple way before the iPhone was released. You are destroying the solid foundation upon which Apple has built its success.

randominternetperson · February 13, 2018 5:13PM

sirozha said:

This is an excellent "dock" for a Retina MacBook (2015, 2016, 2017), since the MacBook has only one USB-C port.

One of the stupidest things that Apple has done is prevent the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks from connecting to the Apple's own LED Thunderbolt Display. The fact that Apple even released the Thunderbolt Display without a mDP capability was one of the first steps down the slippery slope of destroying Apple's own ecosystem. Only a bean counter would make a decision to release a new monitor that obsoletes most every computer that was released prior to it. How much would it take to keep the mDP capability in the Thunderbolt Display? By how much would it increase its cost - $10?

In its infinite wisdom, Apple introduced the 2015 MacBook (followed by 2016 and 2017 MacBooks) that obsoleted the Thunderbolt Display. Do two wrongs make it right?

Even though theoretically the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks can connect to the Apple's LED Cinema Display, there was not a good solution for it, since the bean counter decided to put only one port in the MacBook. Hence, charging the MacBook and connecting to the LED Cinema Display was either not possible or required a series of daisy-chained dongles of dubious origin. So, basically, Tim the Bean Counter sent hundreds of thousands of Apple's long-term customers a big and juicy "FU" in the form of the Retina MacBook and the lack of Apple-manufactured dongles that would allow the Retina MacBook to connect to either of the Apple own LED displays.

Personally, I'm stuck with the 2015 15" MacBook Pro, which I consider to be the last real Pro laptop in the Apple's glorious history. I'm also using the LED Cinema Display with this Mac in a two-display setup (external LED Cinema Display and MacBook Pro's own display with the MacBook Pro being on an elevated stand). I have been using this setup for seven years now, and it fits my needs perfectly. The LED Cinema Display (I bought it intentionally over the Thunderbolt Display even though both were available) works great for what I do. It's not a 4K display, but for my work, this display is phenomenal.

My problem is that I see no upgrade path for my 2015 MacBook Pro. I will NOT go down the 2016 MacBook Pro path, as I believe Apple had lost its mind when it removed all non-USB-C ports from the MacBook Pro in 2016 and instead put in four USB-C ports and a stupid Touch Bar. Unless Apple wises up, I'm done with the MacBook Pro line. Hence, the MacBook is my only hope going forward, and this dock is something that can serve as a stop gap for the next few years to tie me over with the Retina MacBook until Apple shareholders (to whom I belong as well) throw out the bean counter. If we don't do this now, the dude will completely destroy the Apple ecosystem, and with it, it will bring down Apple.

I'm still on the fence about getting a Retina MacBook, waiting for Apple to throw another curve ball this year with their MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Will traditional ports find their way back to the MacBook Pro line this year? Will the Retina MacBook acquire at least one more port? Thanks Tim for "f#ck1ng up" Steve's legacy with your total annihilation of the consistency and backward compatibility in the Apple ecosystem.

I think you forgot the /s tag to remind people that you're just making fun of all the people who write rants like this one. It was spot-on, but you could have added something about wanting a physical ethernet port and an optical drive to put it over the top. As if people who buy the entry-level MacBook are the same people who have Cinema Displays. Heh.

roundaboutnow · February 13, 2018 5:26PM

mscohen said:

So, how about someone making a charger that includes legacy ports?

If you mean a power supply "brick" that includes legacy ports, I think that is a great idea. (As long as the size is still reasonably compact).

Mike Wuerthele · February 13, 2018 5:38PM

sirozha said:

This is an excellent "dock" for a Retina MacBook (2015, 2016, 2017), since the MacBook has only one USB-C port.

One of the stupidest things that Apple has done is prevent the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks from connecting to the Apple's own LED Thunderbolt Display. The fact that Apple even released the Thunderbolt Display without a mDP capability was one of the first steps down the slippery slope of destroying Apple's own ecosystem. Only a bean counter would make a decision to release a new monitor that obsoletes most every computer that was released prior to it. How much would it take to keep the mDP capability in the Thunderbolt Display? By how much would it increase its cost - $10? I know Steve was still alive when the Thunderbolt Display was released in the summer of 2011, but Steve was very sick and was not running Apple anymore at that point.

In its infinite wisdom, Apple introduced the 2015 MacBook (followed by 2016 and 2017 MacBooks) that obsoleted the Thunderbolt Display. Do two wrongs make it right?

Even though theoretically the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks can connect to the Apple's LED Cinema Display, there was not a good solution for it, since the bean counter decided to put only one port in the MacBook. Hence, charging the MacBook and connecting to the LED Cinema Display was either not possible or required a series of daisy-chained dongles of dubious origin. So, basically, Tim the Bean Counter sent hundreds of thousands of Apple's long-term customers a big and juicy "FU" in the form of the Retina MacBook and the lack of Apple-manufactured dongles that would allow the Retina MacBook to connect to either of the Apple own LED displays.

Personally, I'm stuck with the 2015 15" MacBook Pro, which I consider to be the last real Pro laptop in the Apple's glorious history. I'm also using the LED Cinema Display with this Mac in a two-display setup (external LED Cinema Display and MacBook Pro's own display with the MacBook Pro being on an elevated stand). I have been using this setup for six years now, and it fits my needs perfectly. The LED Cinema Display (I bought it intentionally over the Thunderbolt Display even though both were available) works great for what I do. It's not a 4K display, but for my work, this display is phenomenal.

My problem is that I see no upgrade path for my 2015 MacBook Pro. I will NOT go down the 2016 MacBook Pro path, as I believe Apple had lost its mind when it removed all non-USB-C ports from the MacBook Pro in 2016 and instead put in four USB-C ports and a stupid Touch Bar. Unless Apple wises up, I'm done with the MacBook Pro line. Hence, the MacBook is my only hope going forward, and this dock is something that can serve as a stop gap for the next few years to tie me over with the Retina MacBook until Apple shareholders (to whom I belong as well) throw out the bean counter. If we don't do this now, the dude will completely destroy the Apple ecosystem, and with it, it will bring down Apple.

I'm still on the fence about getting a Retina MacBook, waiting for Apple to throw another curve ball this year with their MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Will traditional ports find their way back to the MacBook Pro line this year? Will the Retina MacBook acquire at least one more port? Thanks Tim for "f#ck1ng up" Steve's legacy with your total annihilation of the consistency and backward compatibility in the Apple ecosystem. You do not understand, Tim, what brought us as customers to Apple way before the iPhone was released. You are destroying the solid foundation upon which Apple has built its success.

I'm a little confused.

You like the MacBook for its ONE USB-C port, but dislike the MacBook Pro for its FOUR Thunderbolt 3 ports? You know that the product discussed above works with the MacBook Pro too, right?

To answer your other questions: Will "traditional ports" find their way back to the MacBook Pro. As the TB3 ports are also standard USB 3.1 generation 2 type-C ports, I'd say no.

Will the MacBook get an additional USB 3.1 type C port? Maybe, but we're not seeing any rumors suggesting that it will.

I also think you're mis-remembering "consistency and backward compatibility." See also: AppleTalk, AAUI, ADB, HDI-45, DB-15, DB8 serial, USB in the first place, FireWire, the Mezzanine port, et al.

sirozha · February 13, 2018 5:43PM

randominternetperson said:

sirozha said:

This is an excellent "dock" for a Retina MacBook (2015, 2016, 2017), since the MacBook has only one USB-C port.

One of the stupidest things that Apple has done is prevent the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks from connecting to the Apple's own LED Thunderbolt Display. The fact that Apple even released the Thunderbolt Display without a mDP capability was one of the first steps down the slippery slope of destroying Apple's own ecosystem. Only a bean counter would make a decision to release a new monitor that obsoletes most every computer that was released prior to it. How much would it take to keep the mDP capability in the Thunderbolt Display? By how much would it increase its cost - $10?

In its infinite wisdom, Apple introduced the 2015 MacBook (followed by 2016 and 2017 MacBooks) that obsoleted the Thunderbolt Display. Do two wrongs make it right?

Even though theoretically the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks can connect to the Apple's LED Cinema Display, there was not a good solution for it, since the bean counter decided to put only one port in the MacBook. Hence, charging the MacBook and connecting to the LED Cinema Display was either not possible or required a series of daisy-chained dongles of dubious origin. So, basically, Tim the Bean Counter sent hundreds of thousands of Apple's long-term customers a big and juicy "FU" in the form of the Retina MacBook and the lack of Apple-manufactured dongles that would allow the Retina MacBook to connect to either of the Apple own LED displays.

Personally, I'm stuck with the 2015 15" MacBook Pro, which I consider to be the last real Pro laptop in the Apple's glorious history. I'm also using the LED Cinema Display with this Mac in a two-display setup (external LED Cinema Display and MacBook Pro's own display with the MacBook Pro being on an elevated stand). I have been using this setup for seven years now, and it fits my needs perfectly. The LED Cinema Display (I bought it intentionally over the Thunderbolt Display even though both were available) works great for what I do. It's not a 4K display, but for my work, this display is phenomenal.

My problem is that I see no upgrade path for my 2015 MacBook Pro. I will NOT go down the 2016 MacBook Pro path, as I believe Apple had lost its mind when it removed all non-USB-C ports from the MacBook Pro in 2016 and instead put in four USB-C ports and a stupid Touch Bar. Unless Apple wises up, I'm done with the MacBook Pro line. Hence, the MacBook is my only hope going forward, and this dock is something that can serve as a stop gap for the next few years to tie me over with the Retina MacBook until Apple shareholders (to whom I belong as well) throw out the bean counter. If we don't do this now, the dude will completely destroy the Apple ecosystem, and with it, it will bring down Apple.

I'm still on the fence about getting a Retina MacBook, waiting for Apple to throw another curve ball this year with their MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Will traditional ports find their way back to the MacBook Pro line this year? Will the Retina MacBook acquire at least one more port? Thanks Tim for "f#ck1ng up" Steve's legacy with your total annihilation of the consistency and backward compatibility in the Apple ecosystem.

I think you forgot the /s tag to remind people that you're just making fun of all the people who write rants like this one. It was spot-on, but you could have added something about wanting a physical ethernet port and an optical drive to put it over the top. As if people who buy the entry-level MacBook are the same people who have Cinema Displays. Heh.

Actually, the battle with the Ethernet port was lost a long time ago, but as long as it only required one dongle it was still doable. With the 2016 MacBook Pro, Apple didn't even bother to release a Thunderbolt3-to-GigabitEthernet dongle, so one had to use two daisy chained dongles (Thunderbolt3-to-Thunderbolt2 and Thunderbolt2-to GigabitEthernet) to get a wired Ethernet connection on the "MacBook Pro". With the Retina MacBook, Apple doesn't even offer a solution for wired Ethernet.

So, you can laugh as long as you want, but if you don't understand why professionals need wired Ethernet, you must have bought your USB-C MacBook Pro to watch porn or read your FaceBook feed. There is nothing left of Pro in the 2016-2017 MacBook Pro unless you consider bloggers to be professionals.

sirozha · February 13, 2018 6:00PM

Mike Wuerthele said:

sirozha said:

This is an excellent "dock" for a Retina MacBook (2015, 2016, 2017), since the MacBook has only one USB-C port.

One of the stupidest things that Apple has done is prevent the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks from connecting to the Apple's own LED Thunderbolt Display. The fact that Apple even released the Thunderbolt Display without a mDP capability was one of the first steps down the slippery slope of destroying Apple's own ecosystem. Only a bean counter would make a decision to release a new monitor that obsoletes most every computer that was released prior to it. How much would it take to keep the mDP capability in the Thunderbolt Display? By how much would it increase its cost - $10? I know Steve was still alive when the Thunderbolt Display was released in the summer of 2011, but Steve was very sick and was not running Apple anymore at that point.

In its infinite wisdom, Apple introduced the 2015 MacBook (followed by 2016 and 2017 MacBooks) that obsoleted the Thunderbolt Display. Do two wrongs make it right?

Even though theoretically the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks can connect to the Apple's LED Cinema Display, there was not a good solution for it, since the bean counter decided to put only one port in the MacBook. Hence, charging the MacBook and connecting to the LED Cinema Display was either not possible or required a series of daisy-chained dongles of dubious origin. So, basically, Tim the Bean Counter sent hundreds of thousands of Apple's long-term customers a big and juicy "FU" in the form of the Retina MacBook and the lack of Apple-manufactured dongles that would allow the Retina MacBook to connect to either of the Apple own LED displays.

Personally, I'm stuck with the 2015 15" MacBook Pro, which I consider to be the last real Pro laptop in the Apple's glorious history. I'm also using the LED Cinema Display with this Mac in a two-display setup (external LED Cinema Display and MacBook Pro's own display with the MacBook Pro being on an elevated stand). I have been using this setup for six years now, and it fits my needs perfectly. The LED Cinema Display (I bought it intentionally over the Thunderbolt Display even though both were available) works great for what I do. It's not a 4K display, but for my work, this display is phenomenal.

My problem is that I see no upgrade path for my 2015 MacBook Pro. I will NOT go down the 2016 MacBook Pro path, as I believe Apple had lost its mind when it removed all non-USB-C ports from the MacBook Pro in 2016 and instead put in four USB-C ports and a stupid Touch Bar. Unless Apple wises up, I'm done with the MacBook Pro line. Hence, the MacBook is my only hope going forward, and this dock is something that can serve as a stop gap for the next few years to tie me over with the Retina MacBook until Apple shareholders (to whom I belong as well) throw out the bean counter. If we don't do this now, the dude will completely destroy the Apple ecosystem, and with it, it will bring down Apple.

I'm still on the fence about getting a Retina MacBook, waiting for Apple to throw another curve ball this year with their MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Will traditional ports find their way back to the MacBook Pro line this year? Will the Retina MacBook acquire at least one more port? Thanks Tim for "f#ck1ng up" Steve's legacy with your total annihilation of the consistency and backward compatibility in the Apple ecosystem. You do not understand, Tim, what brought us as customers to Apple way before the iPhone was released. You are destroying the solid foundation upon which Apple has built its success.

I'm a little confused.

You like the MacBook for its ONE USB-C port, but dislike the MacBook Pro for its FOUR Thunderbolt 3 ports? You know that the product discussed above works with the MacBook Pro too, right?

To answer your other questions: Will "traditional ports" find their way back to the MacBook Pro. As the TB3 ports are also standard USB 3.1 generation 2 type-C ports, I'd say no.
Will the MacBook get an additional USB 3.1 type C port? Maybe, but we're not seeing any rumors suggesting that it will.

I also think you're mis-remembering "consistency and backward compatibility." See also: AppleTalk, AAUI, ADB, HDI-45, DB-15, DB8 serial, USB in the first place, FireWire, the Mezzanine port, et al.

I dislike MacBook Pro for the lack of non-USB-C ports. Whereas I was making progress persuading fellow engineers to switch from Windows laptops to the 2015 MacBook Pro, I would never advise anyone to switch to the 2016-2017 MacBook Pro, as they would be much better served by a professional Windows laptop.

Retina MacBook is not a professional laptop, so an argument can be made that it doesn't need to have a bunch of different ports. However, with the current generation of Retina MacBooks you can barely use it for anything other than Web surfing and FaceBook feed reading at all, since there's only one peripheral port on it, which happens to be the same port that the MacBook charges through. So, expecting non-USB-C ports on the Retina MacBook is not even a realistic request to make at this point, but it is INSANE to settle for one port on the Retina MacBook Pro. All the arguments that "the future is wireless" hold no water for me because I'm not living in "the future". I'm living in the present, where I need to be able to connect to peripherals without lugging with me a briefcase full of dongles.

As far as FireWire goes, you probably remember that Apple brought it back after dropping it in 2008 MacBook Pros. Very few were still using FireWire when Apple dropped it the second time. For now, there are no projectors, no TVs, etc. that use USB-C connectors. All the engineering peripherals that use USB are the USB-A form factor. Most external drives are USB-A, etc. Perhaps in 4-5 years, there will be a good reason to drop HDMI, mDP, and USB-A, but that is in the future. People need Pro machines for the present.

Mike Wuerthele · February 13, 2018 6:22PM

sirozha said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

sirozha said:

This is an excellent "dock" for a Retina MacBook (2015, 2016, 2017), since the MacBook has only one USB-C port.

One of the stupidest things that Apple has done is prevent the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks from connecting to the Apple's own LED Thunderbolt Display. The fact that Apple even released the Thunderbolt Display without a mDP capability was one of the first steps down the slippery slope of destroying Apple's own ecosystem. Only a bean counter would make a decision to release a new monitor that obsoletes most every computer that was released prior to it. How much would it take to keep the mDP capability in the Thunderbolt Display? By how much would it increase its cost - $10? I know Steve was still alive when the Thunderbolt Display was released in the summer of 2011, but Steve was very sick and was not running Apple anymore at that point.

In its infinite wisdom, Apple introduced the 2015 MacBook (followed by 2016 and 2017 MacBooks) that obsoleted the Thunderbolt Display. Do two wrongs make it right?

Even though theoretically the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks can connect to the Apple's LED Cinema Display, there was not a good solution for it, since the bean counter decided to put only one port in the MacBook. Hence, charging the MacBook and connecting to the LED Cinema Display was either not possible or required a series of daisy-chained dongles of dubious origin. So, basically, Tim the Bean Counter sent hundreds of thousands of Apple's long-term customers a big and juicy "FU" in the form of the Retina MacBook and the lack of Apple-manufactured dongles that would allow the Retina MacBook to connect to either of the Apple own LED displays.

Personally, I'm stuck with the 2015 15" MacBook Pro, which I consider to be the last real Pro laptop in the Apple's glorious history. I'm also using the LED Cinema Display with this Mac in a two-display setup (external LED Cinema Display and MacBook Pro's own display with the MacBook Pro being on an elevated stand). I have been using this setup for six years now, and it fits my needs perfectly. The LED Cinema Display (I bought it intentionally over the Thunderbolt Display even though both were available) works great for what I do. It's not a 4K display, but for my work, this display is phenomenal.

My problem is that I see no upgrade path for my 2015 MacBook Pro. I will NOT go down the 2016 MacBook Pro path, as I believe Apple had lost its mind when it removed all non-USB-C ports from the MacBook Pro in 2016 and instead put in four USB-C ports and a stupid Touch Bar. Unless Apple wises up, I'm done with the MacBook Pro line. Hence, the MacBook is my only hope going forward, and this dock is something that can serve as a stop gap for the next few years to tie me over with the Retina MacBook until Apple shareholders (to whom I belong as well) throw out the bean counter. If we don't do this now, the dude will completely destroy the Apple ecosystem, and with it, it will bring down Apple.

I'm still on the fence about getting a Retina MacBook, waiting for Apple to throw another curve ball this year with their MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Will traditional ports find their way back to the MacBook Pro line this year? Will the Retina MacBook acquire at least one more port? Thanks Tim for "f#ck1ng up" Steve's legacy with your total annihilation of the consistency and backward compatibility in the Apple ecosystem. You do not understand, Tim, what brought us as customers to Apple way before the iPhone was released. You are destroying the solid foundation upon which Apple has built its success.

I'm a little confused.

You like the MacBook for its ONE USB-C port, but dislike the MacBook Pro for its FOUR Thunderbolt 3 ports? You know that the product discussed above works with the MacBook Pro too, right?

To answer your other questions: Will "traditional ports" find their way back to the MacBook Pro. As the TB3 ports are also standard USB 3.1 generation 2 type-C ports, I'd say no.
Will the MacBook get an additional USB 3.1 type C port? Maybe, but we're not seeing any rumors suggesting that it will.

I also think you're mis-remembering "consistency and backward compatibility." See also: AppleTalk, AAUI, ADB, HDI-45, DB-15, DB8 serial, USB in the first place, FireWire, the Mezzanine port, et al.

I dislike MacBook Pro for the lack of non-USB-C ports. Whereas I was making progress persuading fellow engineers to switch from Windows laptops to the 2015 MacBook Pro, I would never advise anyone to switch to the 2016-2017 MacBook Pro, as they would be much better served by a professional Windows laptop.

Retina MacBook is not a professional laptop, so an argument can be made that it doesn't need to have a bunch of different ports. However, with the current generation of Retina MacBooks you can barely use it for anything other than Web surfing and FaceBook feed reading at all, since there's only one peripheral port on it, which happens to be the same port that the MacBook charges through. So, expecting non-USB-C ports on the Retina MacBook is not even a realistic request to make at this point, but it is INSANE to settle for one port on the Retina MacBook Pro. All the arguments that "the future is wireless" hold no water for me because I'm not living in "the future". I'm living in the present, where I need to be able to connect to peripherals without logging with me a briefcase full of dongles.

As far as FireWire goes, you probably remember that Apple brought it back after dropping it in 2008 MacBook Pros. Very few were still using FireWire when Apple dropped it the second time. For now, there are no projectors, no TVs, etc. that use USB-C connectors. All the engineering peripherals that use USB are the USB-A form factor. Most external drives are USB-A, etc. Perhaps in 4-5 years, there will be a good reason to drop HDMI, mDP, and USB-A, but that is in the future. People need Pro machines for the present.

Chicken or the egg argument. USB was available in PCs with little traction before the iMac. Then things came around.

USB-C was available in PCs, with little traction before the MacBook Pro. We're still in the adjustment phase right now. So, which is it -- does the port need to be well adopted before you're okay with a switch? What forces the switch in the first place?

Regarding your previous comment to another user about USB-C to Gig-E, there are about 10 different companies that have a $13 or so USB-C to Gig-E dongle.

I understand your workflow differs from mine, and that's fine, but I'm curious. What dongles do you carry, and why?

payeco · February 13, 2018 6:22PM

Only passes through 60 watts? PASS.

christopher126 · February 13, 2018 6:43PM

Why?

anome · February 13, 2018 8:24PM

sirozha said:

randominternetperson said:

sirozha said:

This is an excellent "dock" for a Retina MacBook (2015, 2016, 2017), since the MacBook has only one USB-C port.

One of the stupidest things that Apple has done is prevent the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks from connecting to the Apple's own LED Thunderbolt Display. The fact that Apple even released the Thunderbolt Display without a mDP capability was one of the first steps down the slippery slope of destroying Apple's own ecosystem. Only a bean counter would make a decision to release a new monitor that obsoletes most every computer that was released prior to it. How much would it take to keep the mDP capability in the Thunderbolt Display? By how much would it increase its cost - $10?

In its infinite wisdom, Apple introduced the 2015 MacBook (followed by 2016 and 2017 MacBooks) that obsoleted the Thunderbolt Display. Do two wrongs make it right?

Even though theoretically the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks can connect to the Apple's LED Cinema Display, there was not a good solution for it, since the bean counter decided to put only one port in the MacBook. Hence, charging the MacBook and connecting to the LED Cinema Display was either not possible or required a series of daisy-chained dongles of dubious origin. So, basically, Tim the Bean Counter sent hundreds of thousands of Apple's long-term customers a big and juicy "FU" in the form of the Retina MacBook and the lack of Apple-manufactured dongles that would allow the Retina MacBook to connect to either of the Apple own LED displays.

Personally, I'm stuck with the 2015 15" MacBook Pro, which I consider to be the last real Pro laptop in the Apple's glorious history. I'm also using the LED Cinema Display with this Mac in a two-display setup (external LED Cinema Display and MacBook Pro's own display with the MacBook Pro being on an elevated stand). I have been using this setup for seven years now, and it fits my needs perfectly. The LED Cinema Display (I bought it intentionally over the Thunderbolt Display even though both were available) works great for what I do. It's not a 4K display, but for my work, this display is phenomenal.

My problem is that I see no upgrade path for my 2015 MacBook Pro. I will NOT go down the 2016 MacBook Pro path, as I believe Apple had lost its mind when it removed all non-USB-C ports from the MacBook Pro in 2016 and instead put in four USB-C ports and a stupid Touch Bar. Unless Apple wises up, I'm done with the MacBook Pro line. Hence, the MacBook is my only hope going forward, and this dock is something that can serve as a stop gap for the next few years to tie me over with the Retina MacBook until Apple shareholders (to whom I belong as well) throw out the bean counter. If we don't do this now, the dude will completely destroy the Apple ecosystem, and with it, it will bring down Apple.

I'm still on the fence about getting a Retina MacBook, waiting for Apple to throw another curve ball this year with their MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Will traditional ports find their way back to the MacBook Pro line this year? Will the Retina MacBook acquire at least one more port? Thanks Tim for "f#ck1ng up" Steve's legacy with your total annihilation of the consistency and backward compatibility in the Apple ecosystem.

I think you forgot the /s tag to remind people that you're just making fun of all the people who write rants like this one. It was spot-on, but you could have added something about wanting a physical ethernet port and an optical drive to put it over the top. As if people who buy the entry-level MacBook are the same people who have Cinema Displays. Heh.

Actually, the battle with the Ethernet port was lost a long time ago, but as long as it only required one dongle it was still doable. With the 2016 MacBook Pro, Apple didn't even bother to release a Thunderbolt3-to-GigabitEthernet dongle, so one had to use two daisy chained dongles (Thunderbolt3-to-Thunderbolt2 and Thunderbolt2-to GigabitEthernet) to get a wired Ethernet connection on the "MacBook Pro". With the Retina MacBook, Apple doesn't even offer a solution for wired Ethernet.

So, you can laugh as long as you want, but if you don't understand why professionals need wired Ethernet, you must have bought your USB-C MacBook Pro to watch porn or read your FaceBook feed. There is nothing left of Pro in the 2016-2017 MacBook Pro unless you consider bloggers to be professionals.

I think you're a little confused. Before my 2016 MacBook Pro shipped (and I ordered on launch), I was able to buy a Belkin USB-C to Gigabit Ethernet adapter from the Apple Store. Which I did, naturally, since I wanted a wired Ethernet connection for when I'm at my desk. I haven't had to daisy chain dongles for anything, if Apple didn't make the exact adapter (and even sometimes when they did) there was a third party solution readily available. If you're desperate to only have Apple branded adapters, I think you might have bigger problems than buying two Thunderbolt adapters to daisy chain together.

brian green · February 13, 2018 9:39PM

I wish I could find a quality FW400 included in a docking station. I still have a fully functional Gen 1 iPod and would love to update the music on it. Unfortunately, the old MBP I used to link it with had a motherboard failure and I upgraded to a new one years ago that didn't include the ports. I'd love to see something out there that offered the older Mac ports as well as the newer stuff just for us folks with older Apple gear that still works. These days, I don't have anything new, just a 2012 MBA and a Gen 1 5k iMac. I don't even have anything that has a USB-C port, just the older Thunderbolt ports.

Mike Wuerthele · February 13, 2018 9:58PM

brian green said:

I wish I could find a quality FW400 included in a docking station. I still have a fully functional Gen 1 iPod and would love to update the music on it. Unfortunately, the old MBP I used to link it with had a motherboard failure and I upgraded to a new one years ago that didn't include the ports. I'd love to see something out there that offered the older Mac ports as well as the newer stuff just for us folks with older Apple gear that still works. These days, I don't have anything new, just a 2012 MBA and a Gen 1 5k iMac. I don't even have anything that has a USB-C port, just the older Thunderbolt ports.

The only FireWire in any of these docking stations is FW800, and it's on the OWC Thunderbolt 3 one. In theory, you can use the Apple bi-directional TB3 to TB2 adapter to connect it.

But, you'd be better off buying an old Mac mini for the $350 it would cost you to do it.

sirozha · February 13, 2018 10:04PM

Mike Wuerthele said:

sirozha said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

sirozha said:

This is an excellent "dock" for a Retina MacBook (2015, 2016, 2017), since the MacBook has only one USB-C port.

One of the stupidest things that Apple has done is prevent the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks from connecting to the Apple's own LED Thunderbolt Display. The fact that Apple even released the Thunderbolt Display without a mDP capability was one of the first steps down the slippery slope of destroying Apple's own ecosystem. Only a bean counter would make a decision to release a new monitor that obsoletes most every computer that was released prior to it. How much would it take to keep the mDP capability in the Thunderbolt Display? By how much would it increase its cost - $10? I know Steve was still alive when the Thunderbolt Display was released in the summer of 2011, but Steve was very sick and was not running Apple anymore at that point.

In its infinite wisdom, Apple introduced the 2015 MacBook (followed by 2016 and 2017 MacBooks) that obsoleted the Thunderbolt Display. Do two wrongs make it right?

Even though theoretically the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks can connect to the Apple's LED Cinema Display, there was not a good solution for it, since the bean counter decided to put only one port in the MacBook. Hence, charging the MacBook and connecting to the LED Cinema Display was either not possible or required a series of daisy-chained dongles of dubious origin. So, basically, Tim the Bean Counter sent hundreds of thousands of Apple's long-term customers a big and juicy "FU" in the form of the Retina MacBook and the lack of Apple-manufactured dongles that would allow the Retina MacBook to connect to either of the Apple own LED displays.

Personally, I'm stuck with the 2015 15" MacBook Pro, which I consider to be the last real Pro laptop in the Apple's glorious history. I'm also using the LED Cinema Display with this Mac in a two-display setup (external LED Cinema Display and MacBook Pro's own display with the MacBook Pro being on an elevated stand). I have been using this setup for six years now, and it fits my needs perfectly. The LED Cinema Display (I bought it intentionally over the Thunderbolt Display even though both were available) works great for what I do. It's not a 4K display, but for my work, this display is phenomenal.

My problem is that I see no upgrade path for my 2015 MacBook Pro. I will NOT go down the 2016 MacBook Pro path, as I believe Apple had lost its mind when it removed all non-USB-C ports from the MacBook Pro in 2016 and instead put in four USB-C ports and a stupid Touch Bar. Unless Apple wises up, I'm done with the MacBook Pro line. Hence, the MacBook is my only hope going forward, and this dock is something that can serve as a stop gap for the next few years to tie me over with the Retina MacBook until Apple shareholders (to whom I belong as well) throw out the bean counter. If we don't do this now, the dude will completely destroy the Apple ecosystem, and with it, it will bring down Apple.

I'm still on the fence about getting a Retina MacBook, waiting for Apple to throw another curve ball this year with their MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Will traditional ports find their way back to the MacBook Pro line this year? Will the Retina MacBook acquire at least one more port? Thanks Tim for "f#ck1ng up" Steve's legacy with your total annihilation of the consistency and backward compatibility in the Apple ecosystem. You do not understand, Tim, what brought us as customers to Apple way before the iPhone was released. You are destroying the solid foundation upon which Apple has built its success.

I'm a little confused.

You like the MacBook for its ONE USB-C port, but dislike the MacBook Pro for its FOUR Thunderbolt 3 ports? You know that the product discussed above works with the MacBook Pro too, right?

To answer your other questions: Will "traditional ports" find their way back to the MacBook Pro. As the TB3 ports are also standard USB 3.1 generation 2 type-C ports, I'd say no.
Will the MacBook get an additional USB 3.1 type C port? Maybe, but we're not seeing any rumors suggesting that it will.

I also think you're mis-remembering "consistency and backward compatibility." See also: AppleTalk, AAUI, ADB, HDI-45, DB-15, DB8 serial, USB in the first place, FireWire, the Mezzanine port, et al.

I dislike MacBook Pro for the lack of non-USB-C ports. Whereas I was making progress persuading fellow engineers to switch from Windows laptops to the 2015 MacBook Pro, I would never advise anyone to switch to the 2016-2017 MacBook Pro, as they would be much better served by a professional Windows laptop.

Retina MacBook is not a professional laptop, so an argument can be made that it doesn't need to have a bunch of different ports. However, with the current generation of Retina MacBooks you can barely use it for anything other than Web surfing and FaceBook feed reading at all, since there's only one peripheral port on it, which happens to be the same port that the MacBook charges through. So, expecting non-USB-C ports on the Retina MacBook is not even a realistic request to make at this point, but it is INSANE to settle for one port on the Retina MacBook Pro. All the arguments that "the future is wireless" hold no water for me because I'm not living in "the future". I'm living in the present, where I need to be able to connect to peripherals without logging with me a briefcase full of dongles.

As far as FireWire goes, you probably remember that Apple brought it back after dropping it in 2008 MacBook Pros. Very few were still using FireWire when Apple dropped it the second time. For now, there are no projectors, no TVs, etc. that use USB-C connectors. All the engineering peripherals that use USB are the USB-A form factor. Most external drives are USB-A, etc. Perhaps in 4-5 years, there will be a good reason to drop HDMI, mDP, and USB-A, but that is in the future. People need Pro machines for the present.

Chicken or the egg argument. USB was available in PCs with little traction before the iMac. Then things came around.

USB-C was available in PCs, with little traction before the MacBook Pro. We're still in the adjustment phase right now. So, which is it -- does the port need to be well adopted before you're okay with a switch? What forces the switch in the first place?

Regarding your previous comment to another user about USB-C to Gig-E, there are about 10 different companies that have a $13 or so USB-C to Gig-E dongle.

I understand your workflow differs from mine, and that's fine, but I'm curious. What dongles do you carry, and why?

Right now in my bag I carry dongles for Thunderbolt2-to-GigabitEthernet, Thunderbolt2-to-DVI, and Thunderbolt2-to-VGA. I also have a set of these dongles at work and a set of these dongles at home. Keeping three sets of dongles is necessary so that I don't end up going to a client to make a presentation without a necessary dongle because I either left it at home, left it at work, or lost it.

If I had a 2016 or 2017 MacBook Pro, I would need the following dongles:

USB-C to USB-A
Thunderbolt3(USB-C form factor)-to-Thunderbolt2
Thunderbolt2-to-GigabitEthernet
USB-C-to-DVI
USB-C-to-VGA
USB-C-to-HDMI

I can't use a cheap USB-C-to-GigabitEthernet dongle because it is unreliable due to the nature of USB, which doesn't provide low latency, low-jitter and high throughput connection that I must have. I must use the Thunderbolt bus to connect to the Ethernet. I'm a network engineer, and I rely on my MacBook Pro to be the baseline when I troubleshooting a network. A USB-C-to-GigabitEthernet adapter is absolutely a no-go for me. Apple should have released a Thunderbolt3-to-GigabitEthernet adapter when they released the MacBook Pro with only Thunderbolt3/USB-C ports. The very fact that Apple didn't bother to release an Ethernet adapter for the new MacBook Pro says volumes about the direction where the Apple's leadership is taking the MacBook Pro line. It is no longer the dream platform for professionals.

Now, multiply that number of dongles (six in total) by three, and you will see how ridiculous it gets for a professional with a 2016-2017 MacBook Pro. I will have to buy 18 dongles in total. If Apple forces my hand, I will buy a high-end professional Windows laptop that has all the necessary ports that I need and install Linux on it. It will be a sad day when I have to abandon the Mac platform, but I see no resolution to my predicament within the next couple years when I will have to upgrade my 2015 MacBook Pro. My only hope is that Tim is forced out of Apple and a reasonable person who understands technology (and not just a logistics genius) becomes the next CEO.

Mike Wuerthele · February 13, 2018 10:08PM

sirozha said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

sirozha said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

sirozha said:

This is an excellent "dock" for a Retina MacBook (2015, 2016, 2017), since the MacBook has only one USB-C port.

One of the stupidest things that Apple has done is prevent the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks from connecting to the Apple's own LED Thunderbolt Display. The fact that Apple even released the Thunderbolt Display without a mDP capability was one of the first steps down the slippery slope of destroying Apple's own ecosystem. Only a bean counter would make a decision to release a new monitor that obsoletes most every computer that was released prior to it. How much would it take to keep the mDP capability in the Thunderbolt Display? By how much would it increase its cost - $10? I know Steve was still alive when the Thunderbolt Display was released in the summer of 2011, but Steve was very sick and was not running Apple anymore at that point.

In its infinite wisdom, Apple introduced the 2015 MacBook (followed by 2016 and 2017 MacBooks) that obsoleted the Thunderbolt Display. Do two wrongs make it right?

Even though theoretically the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks can connect to the Apple's LED Cinema Display, there was not a good solution for it, since the bean counter decided to put only one port in the MacBook. Hence, charging the MacBook and connecting to the LED Cinema Display was either not possible or required a series of daisy-chained dongles of dubious origin. So, basically, Tim the Bean Counter sent hundreds of thousands of Apple's long-term customers a big and juicy "FU" in the form of the Retina MacBook and the lack of Apple-manufactured dongles that would allow the Retina MacBook to connect to either of the Apple own LED displays.

Personally, I'm stuck with the 2015 15" MacBook Pro, which I consider to be the last real Pro laptop in the Apple's glorious history. I'm also using the LED Cinema Display with this Mac in a two-display setup (external LED Cinema Display and MacBook Pro's own display with the MacBook Pro being on an elevated stand). I have been using this setup for six years now, and it fits my needs perfectly. The LED Cinema Display (I bought it intentionally over the Thunderbolt Display even though both were available) works great for what I do. It's not a 4K display, but for my work, this display is phenomenal.

My problem is that I see no upgrade path for my 2015 MacBook Pro. I will NOT go down the 2016 MacBook Pro path, as I believe Apple had lost its mind when it removed all non-USB-C ports from the MacBook Pro in 2016 and instead put in four USB-C ports and a stupid Touch Bar. Unless Apple wises up, I'm done with the MacBook Pro line. Hence, the MacBook is my only hope going forward, and this dock is something that can serve as a stop gap for the next few years to tie me over with the Retina MacBook until Apple shareholders (to whom I belong as well) throw out the bean counter. If we don't do this now, the dude will completely destroy the Apple ecosystem, and with it, it will bring down Apple.

I'm still on the fence about getting a Retina MacBook, waiting for Apple to throw another curve ball this year with their MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Will traditional ports find their way back to the MacBook Pro line this year? Will the Retina MacBook acquire at least one more port? Thanks Tim for "f#ck1ng up" Steve's legacy with your total annihilation of the consistency and backward compatibility in the Apple ecosystem. You do not understand, Tim, what brought us as customers to Apple way before the iPhone was released. You are destroying the solid foundation upon which Apple has built its success.

I'm a little confused.

You like the MacBook for its ONE USB-C port, but dislike the MacBook Pro for its FOUR Thunderbolt 3 ports? You know that the product discussed above works with the MacBook Pro too, right?

To answer your other questions: Will "traditional ports" find their way back to the MacBook Pro. As the TB3 ports are also standard USB 3.1 generation 2 type-C ports, I'd say no.
Will the MacBook get an additional USB 3.1 type C port? Maybe, but we're not seeing any rumors suggesting that it will.

I also think you're mis-remembering "consistency and backward compatibility." See also: AppleTalk, AAUI, ADB, HDI-45, DB-15, DB8 serial, USB in the first place, FireWire, the Mezzanine port, et al.

I dislike MacBook Pro for the lack of non-USB-C ports. Whereas I was making progress persuading fellow engineers to switch from Windows laptops to the 2015 MacBook Pro, I would never advise anyone to switch to the 2016-2017 MacBook Pro, as they would be much better served by a professional Windows laptop.

Retina MacBook is not a professional laptop, so an argument can be made that it doesn't need to have a bunch of different ports. However, with the current generation of Retina MacBooks you can barely use it for anything other than Web surfing and FaceBook feed reading at all, since there's only one peripheral port on it, which happens to be the same port that the MacBook charges through. So, expecting non-USB-C ports on the Retina MacBook is not even a realistic request to make at this point, but it is INSANE to settle for one port on the Retina MacBook Pro. All the arguments that "the future is wireless" hold no water for me because I'm not living in "the future". I'm living in the present, where I need to be able to connect to peripherals without logging with me a briefcase full of dongles.

As far as FireWire goes, you probably remember that Apple brought it back after dropping it in 2008 MacBook Pros. Very few were still using FireWire when Apple dropped it the second time. For now, there are no projectors, no TVs, etc. that use USB-C connectors. All the engineering peripherals that use USB are the USB-A form factor. Most external drives are USB-A, etc. Perhaps in 4-5 years, there will be a good reason to drop HDMI, mDP, and USB-A, but that is in the future. People need Pro machines for the present.

Chicken or the egg argument. USB was available in PCs with little traction before the iMac. Then things came around.

USB-C was available in PCs, with little traction before the MacBook Pro. We're still in the adjustment phase right now. So, which is it -- does the port need to be well adopted before you're okay with a switch? What forces the switch in the first place?

Regarding your previous comment to another user about USB-C to Gig-E, there are about 10 different companies that have a $13 or so USB-C to Gig-E dongle.

I understand your workflow differs from mine, and that's fine, but I'm curious. What dongles do you carry, and why?

Right now in my bag I carry dongles for Thunderbolt2-to-GigabitEthernet, Thunderbolt2-to-DVI, and Thunderbolt2-to-VGA. I also have a set of these dongles at work and a set of these dongles at home. Keeping three sets of dongles is necessary so that I don't end up going to a client to make a presentation without a necessary dongle because I either left it at home, left it at work, or lost it.

If I had a 2016 or 2017 MacBook Pro, I would need the following dongles:

USB-C to USB-A
Thunderbolt3(USB-C form factor)-to-Thunderbolt2
Thunderbolt2-to-GigabitEthernet
USB-C-to-DVI
USB-C-to-VGA
USB-C-to-HDMI

I can't use a cheap USB-C-to-GigabitEthernet dongle because it is unreliable due to the nature of USB, which doesn't provide low latency, low-jitter and high throughput connection that I must have. I must use the Thunderbolt bus to connect to the Ethernet. I'm a network engineer, and I rely on my MacBook Pro to be the baseline when I troubleshooting a network.

Now, multiply that number of dongles (six in total) by three, and you will see how ridiculous it gets for a professional with a 2016-2017 MacBook Pro. I will have to buy 18 dongles in total. If Apple forces my hand, I will buy a professional Windows laptop that has all the necessary ports that I need and install Linux on it. It will be a sad day when I have to abandon the Mac platform, but I see no resolution to my predicament within the next couple years when I will have to upgrade my 2015 MacBook Pro. My only hope is that Tim is forced out of Apple and a reasonable person who understands technology (and not just a logistics genius) becomes the next CEO.

I think you know full well that the older ports aren't coming back. Regardless if you like it or not, though, USB-C is the future.

Plus, there is no way that the shareholders or the board is going to force him out, not with these returns. Cook does understand technology, and the market. He just doesn't see it the same way you do.

If the Linux laptop is the right tool for the job, no joke, you should be doing that.

sirozha · February 13, 2018 10:17PM

Mike Wuerthele said:

sirozha said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

sirozha said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

sirozha said:

This is an excellent "dock" for a Retina MacBook (2015, 2016, 2017), since the MacBook has only one USB-C port.

One of the stupidest things that Apple has done is prevent the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks from connecting to the Apple's own LED Thunderbolt Display. The fact that Apple even released the Thunderbolt Display without a mDP capability was one of the first steps down the slippery slope of destroying Apple's own ecosystem. Only a bean counter would make a decision to release a new monitor that obsoletes most every computer that was released prior to it. How much would it take to keep the mDP capability in the Thunderbolt Display? By how much would it increase its cost - $10? I know Steve was still alive when the Thunderbolt Display was released in the summer of 2011, but Steve was very sick and was not running Apple anymore at that point.

In its infinite wisdom, Apple introduced the 2015 MacBook (followed by 2016 and 2017 MacBooks) that obsoleted the Thunderbolt Display. Do two wrongs make it right?

Even though theoretically the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks can connect to the Apple's LED Cinema Display, there was not a good solution for it, since the bean counter decided to put only one port in the MacBook. Hence, charging the MacBook and connecting to the LED Cinema Display was either not possible or required a series of daisy-chained dongles of dubious origin. So, basically, Tim the Bean Counter sent hundreds of thousands of Apple's long-term customers a big and juicy "FU" in the form of the Retina MacBook and the lack of Apple-manufactured dongles that would allow the Retina MacBook to connect to either of the Apple own LED displays.

Personally, I'm stuck with the 2015 15" MacBook Pro, which I consider to be the last real Pro laptop in the Apple's glorious history. I'm also using the LED Cinema Display with this Mac in a two-display setup (external LED Cinema Display and MacBook Pro's own display with the MacBook Pro being on an elevated stand). I have been using this setup for six years now, and it fits my needs perfectly. The LED Cinema Display (I bought it intentionally over the Thunderbolt Display even though both were available) works great for what I do. It's not a 4K display, but for my work, this display is phenomenal.

My problem is that I see no upgrade path for my 2015 MacBook Pro. I will NOT go down the 2016 MacBook Pro path, as I believe Apple had lost its mind when it removed all non-USB-C ports from the MacBook Pro in 2016 and instead put in four USB-C ports and a stupid Touch Bar. Unless Apple wises up, I'm done with the MacBook Pro line. Hence, the MacBook is my only hope going forward, and this dock is something that can serve as a stop gap for the next few years to tie me over with the Retina MacBook until Apple shareholders (to whom I belong as well) throw out the bean counter. If we don't do this now, the dude will completely destroy the Apple ecosystem, and with it, it will bring down Apple.

I'm still on the fence about getting a Retina MacBook, waiting for Apple to throw another curve ball this year with their MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Will traditional ports find their way back to the MacBook Pro line this year? Will the Retina MacBook acquire at least one more port? Thanks Tim for "f#ck1ng up" Steve's legacy with your total annihilation of the consistency and backward compatibility in the Apple ecosystem. You do not understand, Tim, what brought us as customers to Apple way before the iPhone was released. You are destroying the solid foundation upon which Apple has built its success.

I'm a little confused.

You like the MacBook for its ONE USB-C port, but dislike the MacBook Pro for its FOUR Thunderbolt 3 ports? You know that the product discussed above works with the MacBook Pro too, right?

To answer your other questions: Will "traditional ports" find their way back to the MacBook Pro. As the TB3 ports are also standard USB 3.1 generation 2 type-C ports, I'd say no.
Will the MacBook get an additional USB 3.1 type C port? Maybe, but we're not seeing any rumors suggesting that it will.

I also think you're mis-remembering "consistency and backward compatibility." See also: AppleTalk, AAUI, ADB, HDI-45, DB-15, DB8 serial, USB in the first place, FireWire, the Mezzanine port, et al.

I dislike MacBook Pro for the lack of non-USB-C ports. Whereas I was making progress persuading fellow engineers to switch from Windows laptops to the 2015 MacBook Pro, I would never advise anyone to switch to the 2016-2017 MacBook Pro, as they would be much better served by a professional Windows laptop.

Retina MacBook is not a professional laptop, so an argument can be made that it doesn't need to have a bunch of different ports. However, with the current generation of Retina MacBooks you can barely use it for anything other than Web surfing and FaceBook feed reading at all, since there's only one peripheral port on it, which happens to be the same port that the MacBook charges through. So, expecting non-USB-C ports on the Retina MacBook is not even a realistic request to make at this point, but it is INSANE to settle for one port on the Retina MacBook Pro. All the arguments that "the future is wireless" hold no water for me because I'm not living in "the future". I'm living in the present, where I need to be able to connect to peripherals without logging with me a briefcase full of dongles.

As far as FireWire goes, you probably remember that Apple brought it back after dropping it in 2008 MacBook Pros. Very few were still using FireWire when Apple dropped it the second time. For now, there are no projectors, no TVs, etc. that use USB-C connectors. All the engineering peripherals that use USB are the USB-A form factor. Most external drives are USB-A, etc. Perhaps in 4-5 years, there will be a good reason to drop HDMI, mDP, and USB-A, but that is in the future. People need Pro machines for the present.

Chicken or the egg argument. USB was available in PCs with little traction before the iMac. Then things came around.

USB-C was available in PCs, with little traction before the MacBook Pro. We're still in the adjustment phase right now. So, which is it -- does the port need to be well adopted before you're okay with a switch? What forces the switch in the first place?

Regarding your previous comment to another user about USB-C to Gig-E, there are about 10 different companies that have a $13 or so USB-C to Gig-E dongle.

I understand your workflow differs from mine, and that's fine, but I'm curious. What dongles do you carry, and why?

Right now in my bag I carry dongles for Thunderbolt2-to-GigabitEthernet, Thunderbolt2-to-DVI, and Thunderbolt2-to-VGA. I also have a set of these dongles at work and a set of these dongles at home. Keeping three sets of dongles is necessary so that I don't end up going to a client to make a presentation without a necessary dongle because I either left it at home, left it at work, or lost it.

If I had a 2016 or 2017 MacBook Pro, I would need the following dongles:

USB-C to USB-A
Thunderbolt3(USB-C form factor)-to-Thunderbolt2
Thunderbolt2-to-GigabitEthernet
USB-C-to-DVI
USB-C-to-VGA
USB-C-to-HDMI

I can't use a cheap USB-C-to-GigabitEthernet dongle because it is unreliable due to the nature of USB, which doesn't provide low latency, low-jitter and high throughput connection that I must have. I must use the Thunderbolt bus to connect to the Ethernet. I'm a network engineer, and I rely on my MacBook Pro to be the baseline when I troubleshooting a network.

Now, multiply that number of dongles (six in total) by three, and you will see how ridiculous it gets for a professional with a 2016-2017 MacBook Pro. I will have to buy 18 dongles in total. If Apple forces my hand, I will buy a professional Windows laptop that has all the necessary ports that I need and install Linux on it. It will be a sad day when I have to abandon the Mac platform, but I see no resolution to my predicament within the next couple years when I will have to upgrade my 2015 MacBook Pro. My only hope is that Tim is forced out of Apple and a reasonable person who understands technology (and not just a logistics genius) becomes the next CEO.

I think you know full well that the older ports aren't coming back. Regardless if you like it or not, though, USB-C is the future.

Plus, there is no way that the shareholders or the board is going to force him out, not with these returns. Cook does understand technology, and the market. He just doesn't see it the same way you do.

If the Linux laptop is the right tool for the job, no joke, you should be doing that.

This year will tell if the *legacy* ports are coming back. Apple can drop Thunderbolt2/mDP ports, in favor of Thunderbolt3 ports, since the Thunderbolt2/mDP form factor was proprietary anyway (as long as they release the Thunderbolt3-to-GigabitEthernet dongle), but HDMI and USB-A ports must come back. Additionally, the ridiculous Touch Bar should be an option; people shouldn't be forced to get it if they want a 15" MacBook Pro. The very fact that Apple never released an external keyboard with the Touch Bar says everything one needs to know about how important Touch Bar is. One can't even use the Touch Bar with the iMac, iMac Pro, or if the MacBook Pro is on an elevated stand. Hence, Touch Bar was not even meant for the professional market segment. It is silly fluff that should not be forced down my throat.

First look: IOGear USB-C Compact Docking Station returns legacy ports to MacBook, MacBook ...

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