I'm going to hazard that whatever follows this isn't at all strange.
since in multiple posts I have agreed or at least said a number of the negative comments were reasonable.
Why would you agreeing with someone be at all strange?
Pretty sure agreeing with some of the criticisms is no the same thing as "disrupting" them.
You may be 'pretty sure' but that only vouches for you conduct with 'some of the criticisms.' It ignores 'most' criticisms completely. I have not indicated at any point that I required you defend your actions. In a 400 plus comment thread you have commented over 100 times I think we can easily judge what level of thread disruption exists, and how much of it is criticism of and questions put to WayTools and how much verbiage exists from someone who admits he does not have the answers to a portion of those, and even states they agree with some of those criticisms and wishes to have answers to some of those questions.
I am pretty certain you are not my enemy, but you are being used. As long as you continue to fight WT battles for them, they will not feel the need to respond.
2. It is my fight.
Maybe if you were a shareholder or employee of WayTools or NextEngine. We went over that a long time ago, you aren't. This is a fight you have chosen to be in. It isn't your fight.
It is, in my opinion, everyone's fight, but most choose to abandon the field those who are not reasonable in their comments.
You are entitled to your opinion. I would posit that WayTools have been unreasonable in many of their public interactions. Levelling accusations over and over again, rather than responding to reasonable questions. WayTools have abandoned the field, in your terms, after themselves being unreasonable and being pulled up on it, citing a global conspiracy guided by a shadow cabal of Illuminati. (look I know you have trouble with this stuff, so I am flagging this as hyperbole for comedic effect. sigh, nothing kills a gag like having to a explain it, but here we are.)
Leaving you here, on your own just like they left MR. In fact they stayed here longer, but they still left.
As a member of society, I have this tiny little bit of influence - same as other members. So I choose to stand against outrageous attacks
Not against me you didn't. They posted all kinds of stuff about me, where were you during their outrageous attacks? You were right here ignoring it. No stand. No defending the victim. No, not a dickie bird about a multi-million dollar company attacking a customer posting from his front room, because he had the temerity to ask a journalist how they knew the boxes on the pallet were finished. I asked for a clarification, on a point that was reasonable, about a claim made. I did not ask for the liver of their first born or for them to drink a pint of cold sick, it was a question which incidentally has not been answered.
Oh I think you need to have a think about you priorities pal, and ask yourself whether this guy:
. Stood by for 2 years hoping that by ignoring such things and being nice, I could have positive, useful discussions. After 2 years I realized it didn't matter so for decades since then, I'm nice right up to the point where the person whose posts I'm reading are not.
Would be proud of the guy who stood by while a multi-millionaire. who has been in court with his investors for what seems like a decade over unpaid promissory notes, and his minions repeatedly and demonstrably slandered someone, so they didn't have to post a product update. A product update. A $£%$ing product update.
You are better than that. You certainly are better than that on your best days, that I have seen anyway.
Why would you agreeing with someone be at all strange?
Maybe because I was responding to YOUR comment where you said, "They seem comfortable in using him to delay and disrupt any negative comments"
So, since I was agreeing with some negative comments, you statement is weird.
but that only vouches for you conduct with 'some of the criticisms.' It ignores 'most' criticisms completely.
So if I don't agree with all (or even "most") criticisms, it means "any"? Sorry, it doesn't work that way.
In response to my saying it IS my fight, you respond:
Maybe if you were a shareholder or employee of WayTools or NextEngine.
Since I already explained why it is my fight, you are wrong. It has nothing to do with being a shareholder, employee, or anything else relating to WT specifically. You don't get a vote on what I decide is my fight.
Not against me you didn't
I don't consider you a victim. I saw what you were saying too from 2015. But, as it happens, I defended - in a broad sense (not just you, but people with the same complaint in general) directly to Mark. But just on some specific stuff just the other day. Not everything. Same as I do in defending WT. And I've made similar points publicly in the past. And I did on it on EXACTLY the same basis that I defend WT from some accusations.
You have to consider Kahuna behavior from perhaps three perspectives at most:
1 He works for Waytools or has been otherwise compensated by Waytools and/or Mark Knighton. This explains his online behavior entirely.
2 He does not work for Waytools. He is therefore a person of highly questionable motives who long ago decided to embark upon a trolling campaign on behalf of a company whose product he purchased and received (unlike the other 98.5% of people who paid for the same product), presumably because he can think of nothing more productive to do with his time.
3 He is a modern day superhero who has committed himself to fighting in defense of truth, justice, and the Waytools way, sort of like a guy who puts on a Superman costume and ventures out into the night to fight crime, except in this case the faux Supe wears only the upper half of his costume, stays in his bedroom, and defends, on internet forums, the indefensible actions of a passive-aggressive active-aggressive dishonest disreputable unethical little keyboard company, while allowing numerous other miscarriages of truth and justice throughout the world to go completely unanswered.
1 makes perfect sense 2 is an uncharitable description of a rather sad, lonely, unimaginative, and unintelligent individual 3 sheer lunacy no matter which angle you examine it from
To even suggest options 2 or 3 are within the quantum realm of theoretical possibilities, Kahuna will insist you are just an unreasonable meanie. So, option 1 it is then.
Kahuna, you intentionally ignore (hence your hypocrisy, glaring to all, invisible to you) Rolanbeks fundamental point. Waytools left the field, leaving you in their stead. Waytools refuses to communicate professionally with their customers. Waytools relies on you to post hundreds of pages of nonsense so that any serious inquiries or meaningful answers can be ignored or buried. Whatever bad behavior you might agree Waytools is actually responsible for: you enable it, by doing what you do. Because you do what you do, they keep doing what they do.
You are a bad actor Kahuna. Its apparent to everyone. Even those who are placating you by playing nice for a few rounds know you are totally disingenuous.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
Maybe because I was responding to YOUR comment where you said, "They seem comfortable in using him to delay and disrupt any negative comments"
Nope still not strange. Apples to oranges there.
So, since I was agreeing with some negative comments, you statement is weird.
Still nope. It is not weird if you agree with some comments.
So if I don't agree with all (or even "most") criticisms, it means "any"?
Nope, Shame, shame, shame a strawman. Some is a smaller component than most. If you agree with some you disagree with most. "Any" is just phew stinky a red herring you threw in.
Sorry, it doesn't work that way.
Agree, it does not work the way you described. It works the way I described.
In response to my saying it IS my fight, you respond:
And also more. but do carry on, how where are you going to go with this one.
Since I already explained why it is my fight,
No you simply stated it.
you are wrong.
Nope. REEEEEEEEE argument by assertion.
It has nothing to do with being a shareholder, employee, or anything else relating to WT specifically.
Well yes really does, that determines whether you are an official source of information or perhaps someone who has invested in the company and gains a benefit in taking up this fight. Otherwise you are a bystander who is interjecting themselves between customers and their supplier. You are literally interfering in a contractual relationship between two parties. You do not have a pallet of textblades to check whether they are finished or not. You don't ship Textblades, You don't even have one of your own. You have a (possibly two counting that old one) prototype, with the old firmware, which is owned by Waytools.
You don't get a vote on what I decide is my fight.
No one is casting votes here, this isn't a discussion. You are not WayTools. If you would like to run along and get WayTools there some customers of theirs who would like some answers regarding a product they claim to produce. You can decide whatever you like, but it doesn't make your decision matter.
I don't consider you a victim. I saw what you were saying too from 2015.
So in your mind WayTools can make whatever stuff up they like about me? Nice to know where we stand.
But, as it happens, I defended - in a broad sense (not just you, but people with the same complaint in general) directly to Mark.
Is that so?
But just on some specific stuff just the other day. Not everything.
Which stuff? The conspiracy claims? The lies about MR? The lies about the financial transaction? The constant slurs? because you were pretty publicly quiet about it.
Same as I do in defending WT.
Oh no, that's simply not true. You did not defend me in public from them. But you defend them in public all the time. Where is your post which says: "No Waytools you are wrong Rolanbek didn't attack Juil on MR, I know because I was there." then? I don't see it.
Nope, I don't see it anywhere on here.
And I've made similar points publicly in the past. And I did on it on EXACTLY the same basis that I defend WT from some accusations.
Show me oh White knight of the AI forums, where you defended me, specifically me, here, in this thread. There are over 100 posts here. Surely you managed to come up with some defence for a customer getting bullied by multi million dollar company?
Oh yes, I remember you can't empathise because you "I don't consider you a victim.".
So much for DBK defender of truth, fairness and decency. Because even given the evidence of you own eyes back in 2016, you just let WT away with their slanderous comments. Is that fair? Is that decent? because you know it what they said was not true. And I know as well. My conscience is clear regarding that article, and my interactions with the editor and with the moderation team.
Shame on you pal, shame on you.
Did you stop to ask where the hell Mr. "my name is make and I make the textblade" was during that whole mess? Because I don't remember any WT posting while I was there, no calls for calm, no vigorous defence of juli. just silence.
1 He works for Waytools or has been otherwise compensated by Waytools and/or Mark Knighton. 2 He is therefore a person of highly questionable motives who long ago decided to embark upon a trolling campaign 3 He is a modern day superhero who has committed himself to fighting in defense of truth, justice, and the Waytools way
1. Completely made up and, of course, completely false.
2. Not trolling at all. I do tend to respond to trolls though. It's called "cause and effect".
3. Certainly not a superhero - and I was quite clear that I only had the same small impact on society as any other individual. Guess you missed that. On purpose? I do fight for truth and justice though. I'm pretty sure that is a good thing but you are free to say why it isn't if you disagree. But you are just making stuff up again when you throw in "the WayTools way" since, you know, I posted in agreement about a number of things I disagree with WayTools on. Guess you missed those too. On purpose.
Kahuna, you intentionally ignore (hence your hypocrisy, glaring to all, invisible to you) Rolanbeks fundamental point. Waytools left the field, leaving you in their stead
Well, since I don't care if they 'left' me, I guess I don't much care about his fundamental point. I don't need any help.
Even those who are placating you by playing nice for a few rounds know you are totally disingenuous.
You need to work on your phrasing because you basically just declared that they weren't playing nice before. I CHOOSE to believe when they posted more appropriately that they were sincere. I could, of course, be wrong and your description of what they were doing is true. I don't worry about such things because if they are playing such games, they'll reveal it soon enough. But why should I assume they are until that happens? I leave such assuming to you.
You said I was being used to "delay and disrupt ANY [emphasis added] negative comments. Which is clearly impossible when I've agreed with a number of them.
You can throw out an old saying, but it doesn't change the fact that you were wrong.
Which pretty much is what you do throughout your post so this is a good enough example for almost all the rest you wrote.
You said I was being used to "delay and disrupt ANY [emphasis added] negative comments. Which is clearly impossible when I've agreed with a number of them.
You can throw out an old saying, but it doesn't change the fact that you were wrong. Which pretty much is what you do throughout your post so this is a good enough example for almost all the rest you wrote.
Threads by their very nature are linear. You do not need to disagree with every comment all to be able to delay and disrupt any comments. Quite obviously there is enough disruption here with you agreeing with some and arguing with most points. Giving you the benefit of the most generous definition, the smallest majority that 'most' could be is 51%, so label on your tin states now only 51% percent argumentative twaddle which is a great victory for you, as that mean rather than nearly a quarter of all the comments and half of all the words in this thread being yours it could have been 40% of the posts and two thirds of the verbiage.
I'm not only right that you claiming one iota of balance is not supported by the evidence of our own eyes, but you claiming that and manner in which you argued it is so flawed as to be laughable.
You can be disruptive and delaying without agreeing or disagreeing with any post, If you responded with 5000 word essay on cats to every or even 51% of posts that would achieve both delay and disruption. So that amount of agreements and disagreements is at this point irrelevant.
Apples to Oranges.
I can see as you are trying to disengage from my points rather than argue them I'll take the win.
Show me oh White knight of the AI forums, where you defended me, specifically me, here, in this thread. There are over 100 posts here. Surely you managed to come up with some defence for a customer getting bullied by multi million dollar company?
>You do not need to disagree with every comment all to be able to delay and disrupt any comments.
Wow, so suddenly any disagreement is something for you to use to claim disruption. Well, too bad. You don’t get to say anything you want, unchallenged.
No - you do not. You conveniently sidestepped the main point again. You enable Waytools bad behavior. You act as a shill and a propagandist for a disreputable and dishonest company. And we are supposed to believe this is your hobby? No.
Well, since I don't care if they 'left' me, I guess I don't much care about his fundamental point. I don't need any help.
The point was not that they left 'you'. (I find it absolutely remarkable how you seem to miss the essential point of every sentence directed at you).
The point was that they left the field. Period. ('They' being Mark Knighton.) Waytools_Support abandoned any pretense of responding to valid criticism and disappeared after making a bunch of remarks that further blackened the already irreparably stained reputation of the company. They offered no direct or immediate solution to any of the primary problems. They are keeping all the money, and they still have given no indication they will ever ship a product. The currently published dates for 'estimated' shipping are, as they always have been, pure fabrication.
Even those who are placating you by playing nice for a few rounds know you are totally disingenuous.
You need to work on your phrasing because you basically just declared that they weren't playing nice before.
Again, you totally miss the point! (incredible) The point is that everyone - literally, everyone - knows how disingenuous you are in what you are doing.
Obviously you are going to get the last word, since you are paid to be here doing what you do. I concede that.
The bottom line is, Waytools must be routinely exposed for what they are and what they have done to minimize their ability to defraud people. People must be cautioned against giving them money for a product that will never ship. Hopefully this is the last time any reputable publisher will make the same mistakes Macrumors and Appleinsider have made. I hope the author of this article reads these comments, and considers a serious followup, with on the record quotes from Mark Knighton regarding the many issues raised here. Waytools does not deserve any publicity, unless it is an unequivocal warning to avoid them like the plague.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
Well that appears to show a staggering lack of self awareness.
Well stated.
I boggle at the capacity of some people to be either totally oblivious to their own bad behavior, or shamelessly dismissive of all the evidence of it when confronted with such.
Not many are like this, and thus rarely meet, and thus rarer still attempt to work together when they do. But when it happens, it would seem this is the sort of scenario you typically wind up with. WayTools. Activator Supply Company, Inc. Diamond Mortgage Company. Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC. Etc. The mindset of this type of person tends towards duplicitous if not criminal behavior.
Kahuna is an (extremely tedious) propagandist. In my opinion, there is no good will in what he is doing, shilling for a likely ponzi scheme. He got his return on investment as a 'treg tester', now he is playing his part to keep the money flowing in.
When something nice is offered, be it a great product, or a great investment, people line up. Many people are trusting, hopeful, and ultimately, gullible, and it is hard for them to see or admit when they have been tricked.
Thanks for the link. Interesting comments section. The Waytools shills are always ready to pounce and proclaim the product great and ready to ship! (2+ years ago!)
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
Since a lot of what you say is self-serving assumptions, it really means nothing that you disagree with me.
they still have given no indication they will ever ship a product.
Untrue. Some indications would include the hands on event and the reporters who got to actually try it - thus establishing that it exists, works pretty well, and is well made. Another would be the Treg members who were shipped units. I can think of reasons it may never reach GR (as I can do with darn near any product before GR), but you did say "indications", not guarantees.
Again, you totally miss the point!
Just reading what you wrote. If that is a problem, it is on your end.
Obviously you are going to get the last word, since you are paid to be here doing what you do. I concede that.
1. Even if I was paid, exactly how does that mean I get the last word? Does AI have some special deal I haven't heard of?
2. I am not paid.
The Waytools shills are always ready to pounce and proclaim the product great and ready to ship!
Really? And exactly when did I say any such thing? No Treg member can know if it is ready. The MOST they can say is that they haven't had any problems and, if their situation is typical, they THINK it is ready to ship. But you'll have a hard time finding even that much. No, what we say is that it works great, but there have been issues, and that there are no doubt things we don't even know about.
I would no more say the product is "ready to ship" than I would tell people they should order it.
>You do not need to disagree with every comment all to be able to delay and disrupt any comments.
Wow, so suddenly any disagreement is something for you to use to claim disruption. Well, too bad. You don’t get to say anything you want, unchallenged.
That’s a pivot away from addressing a point you’d prefer to avoid. Stick to addressing Waytools, TextBlade or Waytools issues, even if it’s a defence; derailing the thread to discuss semantic minutiae is a “dbk” issue, not a Waytools/TextBlade one...
>You do not need to disagree with every comment all to be able to delay and disrupt any comments.
Wow, so suddenly any disagreement is something for you to use to claim disruption. Well, too bad. You don’t get to say anything you want, unchallenged.
I believe cited your 25% percent of comments in this thread as evidence. (at the time 100 of 400 comments, but we are along a bit from that now)
You claimed you agreed with "some", so it's not disruption.
I said "some" is can not logically be "most". (the words have conflicting definitions)
So you disagree with most.
The useful minimum value of "most" in any group is 51% (most just has to be >50% but 50.00000001% is hard to visualise for readers so 51% will do here)
Which means that your are posting disruptive flack on behalf and to the benefit of WayTools for a minimum of 12% of this thread.
If someone said that a delicious pie contained "some things you liked" and then muttered "An eighth of it is dog turds" you probably would be suspicious of the person serving you the pie.
So let me tot up here.
Wow
Emotive language Waah, waah waaahhh use of emotive language; and old favourite returns:
Argument By Emotive Language. For [redacted] nothing is ever a comment, it is an attack. There are no counterarguments only 'games' or 'Tactics'. No banned users only 'critics'. People who do not share his point of view are 'opponents' and those if people happen to agree they must be 'conspiring'. The use of emotive terms is a fallacious piece of argument as it seeks to argue based on feeling rather than facts.
so suddenly
Nothing has changed here. Waah, waah waaahhh , and shame shame shame implying that change has occurred in another's position when it is that the same is a form of strawman.
any disagreement is something for you to use to claim disruption
Maybe, but as this is a strawman shame shame shame, and phew, stinky a red herring. I shan't bother arguing it at this time.
"Well, too bad. You don’t get to say anything you want, unchallenged."
Delicious! Ding negative assertion.
This is a [redacted] favourite, the negative assertion. He will make a claim in the negative ('there is no','you can't') in an attempt to shift the burden of proof to you. He will insist either that you should have to disprove his assertion because is should be easy for you, or that you are ethically obligated to make his argument for him. No need to waste your time on this he has admitted that he knows a negative claim cannot be proven except via exhaustion (the demonstration of the proof via argumentation of all possibilities) so unless he shows that exhaustive proof, you can ignore it. Be warned, he will repeatedly assert his negative claim as fact, possibly to goad you into being drawn into argumentation, just Ding it and link back here.
Notice especially he fail to be make a specific enough claim:
Who challenges?
Does it have to be him?
does the challenge have to be public or can he harass you in PM's and count it?
does that challenge have to vest, does it merely have to be possible?
etc.
None of which matters.
If they don't like the parts of their posts I'm addressing, maybe they should have left out such things.
Their choice to make.
I know this is at Smurf but if the studio audience will indulge me on this:
If they don't like the parts of their posts I'm addressing
Not the issue, they like their posts, possibly Shame Shame shame, but let's check it's not just a mistake by DBK.
If you meant "If they don't like me addressing parts of their post.." then that makes more sense in context.
Moving on.
maybe they should have left out such things.
So maybe they should leave out the things you don't agree with? Maybe, and this is opinion here, you are offering an ultimatum with this statement?
If you only post things I (DBK) agree with I will not comment on you post pointing out at length my (DBK's) disagreements.
Their choice to make.
Yeah, that seems more like an ultimatum after that. Loving that pro-censorship stance there pal, it's a good look on you.
So our take away is:
Never be critical of WT unless you have seen DBK say it first, Or else DBK with hound you across platforms, in PM's, anywhere until you stop.
To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.
derailing the thread to discuss semantic minutiae is a “dbk” issue, not a Waytools/TextBlade one...
If they don't like the parts of their posts I'm addressing, maybe they should have left out such things.
Their choice to make.
Circle of control champ; ultimately, one can only truly “control” oneself... Rolanbek (whether you like him or not...) says a great truism when he states “you do you...”
Put another way; try fixing the knots in your own knitting - you’re the only one who can actually fix them...
(I strongly suspect you’ll view the above as if it’s an “attack” which needs to be “defended” or addressed in some way - it isn’t an attack at all, simply an observation around what’s actually going on under the hood of all human beings (myself included) - whether or not you apply any of that to yourself is a matter for you. You either will or you won’t; seeing how you choose to respond will demonstrate your choices - I’ll happily be astonished if you choose not to feel the need to respond or “defend” but rather accept a reasonable point which isn’t actually an attack... for what it’s worth, I try in this same regard and sometimes succeed and sometimes fail, but I’m capable of seeing my failings from time to time - like all people; probably not enough - and I endeavour to adjust those failings - you don’t appear willing to concede any point for any reason if it comes from some quarters; that’s simply not normal... oh and please don’t pick up on pedantic semantics over use of the word “any” in that last sentence - it would be an afore mentioned “poor choices” and would demonstrate a point...)
Notice especially he fail to be make a specific enough claim:
Who challenges?
Does it have to be him?
does the challenge have to be public or can he harass you in PM's and count it?
Oh, I like this, but some of it I'll have to explain to others who wouldn't be familiar.
1. Anyone can challenge. That includes me. Are you unaware of that? 2. Doesn't have to be anyone in particular, but it can include me. Are you unaware of that? 3. This is the one I need to explain to others. You see, over on Reddit, people like to talk about me. They did it before I even joined Reddit. They did it after I joined. And they continue to do it after they banned me from their little subreddit (which happened immediately after I made my first two responses to posts ABOUT ME - because I was supposedly "off topic". Go figure.
So, when I get posted about, I choose to respond (cause, meet effect). But I can't post publicly where they are talking about me. So instead I send a private message to the person who does it. Then, when it is Rolanbek, he used to send a private message back complaining that I'm sending him private messages, in spite of the fact that I've told him many times that if he doesn't talk about me publicly, I won't be responding privately. You have to admit, it takes a lot of gall to talk about someone in public (negatively) and then complain about a private response!
So maybe they should leave out the things you don't agree with?
Oh, they can include whatever they want. And I can choose to respond to it. It is only if they don't want something responded to, they shouldn't say it. Simple.
And then it just gets kinda weird. Well, weirder. I wrote:
> "Their choice to make".
And your response?:
Yeah, that seems more like an ultimatum
Amazing. Now saying something is a choice is supposedly an "ultimatum".
dabigkahuna said: If they don't like the parts of their posts I'm addressing, maybe they should have left out such things.
Their choice to make.
Circle of control champ
What a non-surprise, two people reacting to clear statement that people can choose how to post and they respond with comments about it being an ultimatum, censorship and, in this case, "control".
I'm simply pointing out that it is absurd to post something and then complain if someone responds to it. They can still post it, but they don't get to set rules about whether people can respond to it. They can complain about it all they want. Won't matter though.
dabigkahuna said: If they don't like the parts of their posts I'm addressing, maybe they should have left out such things.
Their choice to make.
Circle of control champ
What a non-surprise, two people reacting to clear statement that people can choose how to post and they respond with comments about it being an ultimatum, censorship and, in this case, "control".
I'm simply pointing out that it is absurd to post something and then complain if someone responds to it. They can still post it, but they don't get to set rules about whether people can respond to it. They can complain about it all they want. Won't matter though.
...nothing like taking something out of context... “control” in the context I wrote it (quite clearly) refers the well established psychological principle of a circle of [self] control - not a control in the manner in which you seem to be implying (control over... what... a forum...? the internet... [wink])
That being said...
Anything on Waytools, TextBlade, TREG (beta testing group), customer relations, good/bad faith from the vendor... etc... etc...
...you certainly (and sadly) demonstrated the points I was so hoping against hope you’d prove me wrong on (on pivoting and on self-control)... oh well, I guess I’ll just have to keep hoping against hope that you’ll one day see the light... or the point... or perhaps not see everything as something to declare war over... [cheesy smile emoji]
Maybe those people who post things and then complain that someone responds to what they wrote are the ones who need to control themselves. The idea that they say they have the right to say whatever they want, but then object when some uses the same right to respond is very strange. They can complain, but they’ll just look foolish.
Comments
Why would you agreeing with someone be at all strange?
You may be 'pretty sure' but that only vouches for you conduct with 'some of the criticisms.' It ignores 'most' criticisms completely. I have not indicated at any point that I required you defend your actions. In a 400 plus comment thread you have commented over 100 times I think we can easily judge what level of thread disruption exists, and how much of it is criticism of and questions put to WayTools and how much verbiage exists from someone who admits he does not have the answers to a portion of those, and even states they agree with some of those criticisms and wishes to have answers to some of those questions.
I am pretty certain you are not my enemy, but you are being used. As long as you continue to fight WT battles for them, they will not feel the need to respond.
Maybe if you were a shareholder or employee of WayTools or NextEngine. We went over that a long time ago, you aren't. This is a fight you have chosen to be in. It isn't your fight.
You are entitled to your opinion. I would posit that WayTools have been unreasonable in many of their public interactions. Levelling accusations over and over again, rather than responding to reasonable questions. WayTools have abandoned the field, in your terms, after themselves being unreasonable and being pulled up on it, citing a global conspiracy guided by a shadow cabal of Illuminati. (look I know you have trouble with this stuff, so I am flagging this as hyperbole for comedic effect. sigh, nothing kills a gag like having to a explain it, but here we are.)
Leaving you here, on your own just like they left MR. In fact they stayed here longer, but they still left.
Not against me you didn't. They posted all kinds of stuff about me, where were you during their outrageous attacks? You were right here ignoring it. No stand. No defending the victim. No, not a dickie bird about a multi-million dollar company attacking a customer posting from his front room, because he had the temerity to ask a journalist how they knew the boxes on the pallet were finished. I asked for a clarification, on a point that was reasonable, about a claim made. I did not ask for the liver of their first born or for them to drink a pint of cold sick, it was a question which incidentally has not been answered.
Oh I think you need to have a think about you priorities pal, and ask yourself whether this guy:
Would be proud of the guy who stood by while a multi-millionaire. who has been in court with his investors for what seems like a decade over unpaid promissory notes, and his minions repeatedly and demonstrably slandered someone, so they didn't have to post a product update. A product update. A $£%$ing product update.
You are better than that. You certainly are better than that on your best days, that I have seen anyway.
R
edit: double word
So, since I was agreeing with some negative comments, you statement is weird.
So if I don't agree with all (or even "most") criticisms, it means "any"? Sorry, it doesn't work that way.
In response to my saying it IS my fight, you respond:
Since I already explained why it is my fight, you are wrong. It has nothing to do with being a shareholder, employee, or anything else relating to WT specifically. You don't get a vote on what I decide is my fight.
I don't consider you a victim. I saw what you were saying too from 2015. But, as it happens, I defended - in a broad sense (not just you, but people with the same complaint in general) directly to Mark. But just on some specific stuff just the other day. Not everything. Same as I do in defending WT. And I've made similar points publicly in the past. And I did on it on EXACTLY the same basis that I defend WT from some accusations.
1 He works for Waytools or has been otherwise compensated by Waytools and/or Mark Knighton. This explains his online behavior entirely.
2 He does not work for Waytools. He is therefore a person of highly questionable motives who long ago decided to embark upon a trolling campaign on behalf of a company whose product he purchased and received (unlike the other 98.5% of people who paid for the same product), presumably because he can think of nothing more productive to do with his time.
3 He is a modern day superhero who has committed himself to fighting in defense of truth, justice, and the Waytools way, sort of like a guy who puts on a Superman costume and ventures out into the night to fight crime, except in this case the faux Supe wears only the upper half of his costume, stays in his bedroom, and defends, on internet forums, the indefensible actions of a passive-aggressive active-aggressive dishonest disreputable unethical little keyboard company, while allowing numerous other miscarriages of truth and justice throughout the world to go completely unanswered.
1 makes perfect sense
2 is an uncharitable description of a rather sad, lonely, unimaginative, and unintelligent individual
3 sheer lunacy no matter which angle you examine it from
To even suggest options 2 or 3 are within the quantum realm of theoretical possibilities, Kahuna will insist you are just an unreasonable meanie. So, option 1 it is then.
Kahuna, you intentionally ignore (hence your hypocrisy, glaring to all, invisible to you) Rolanbeks fundamental point. Waytools left the field, leaving you in their stead. Waytools refuses to communicate professionally with their customers. Waytools relies on you to post hundreds of pages of nonsense so that any serious inquiries or meaningful answers can be ignored or buried. Whatever bad behavior you might agree Waytools is actually responsible for: you enable it, by doing what you do. Because you do what you do, they keep doing what they do.
You are a bad actor Kahuna. Its apparent to everyone. Even those who are placating you by playing nice for a few rounds know you are totally disingenuous.
Nope still not strange. Apples to oranges there.
Still nope. It is not weird if you agree with some comments.
Nope, Shame, shame, shame a strawman. Some is a smaller component than most. If you agree with some you disagree with most. "Any" is just phew stinky a red herring you threw in.
Agree, it does not work the way you described. It works the way I described.
And also more. but do carry on, how where are you going to go with this one.
No you simply stated it.
Nope. REEEEEEEEE argument by assertion.
Well yes really does, that determines whether you are an official source of information or perhaps someone who has invested in the company and gains a benefit in taking up this fight. Otherwise you are a bystander who is interjecting themselves between customers and their supplier. You are literally interfering in a contractual relationship between two parties. You do not have a pallet of textblades to check whether they are finished or not. You don't ship Textblades, You don't even have one of your own. You have a (possibly two counting that old one) prototype, with the old firmware, which is owned by Waytools.
No one is casting votes here, this isn't a discussion. You are not WayTools. If you would like to run along and get WayTools there some customers of theirs who would like some answers regarding a product they claim to produce. You can decide whatever you like, but it doesn't make your decision matter.
So in your mind WayTools can make whatever stuff up they like about me? Nice to know where we stand.
Is that so?
Which stuff? The conspiracy claims? The lies about MR? The lies about the financial transaction? The constant slurs? because you were pretty publicly quiet about it.
Oh no, that's simply not true. You did not defend me in public from them. But you defend them in public all the time. Where is your post which says: "No Waytools you are wrong Rolanbek didn't attack Juil on MR, I know because I was there." then? I don't see it.
Nope, I don't see it anywhere on here.
Show me oh White knight of the AI forums, where you defended me, specifically me, here, in this thread. There are over 100 posts here. Surely you managed to come up with some defence for a customer getting bullied by multi million dollar company?
Oh yes, I remember you can't empathise because you "I don't consider you a victim.".
So much for DBK defender of truth, fairness and decency. Because even given the evidence of you own eyes back in 2016, you just let WT away with their slanderous comments. Is that fair? Is that decent? because you know it what they said was not true. And I know as well. My conscience is clear regarding that article, and my interactions with the editor and with the moderation team.
Shame on you pal, shame on you.
Did you stop to ask where the hell Mr. "my name is make and I make the textblade" was during that whole mess? Because I don't remember any WT posting while I was there, no calls for calm, no vigorous defence of juli. just silence.
R
2. Not trolling at all. I do tend to respond to trolls though. It's called "cause and effect".
3. Certainly not a superhero - and I was quite clear that I only had the same small impact on society as any other individual. Guess you missed that. On purpose? I do fight for truth and justice though. I'm pretty sure that is a good thing but you are free to say why it isn't if you disagree. But you are just making stuff up again when you throw in "the WayTools way" since, you know, I posted in agreement about a number of things I disagree with WayTools on. Guess you missed those too. On purpose.
Well, since I don't care if they 'left' me, I guess I don't much care about his fundamental point. I don't need any help. You need to work on your phrasing because you basically just declared that they weren't playing nice before. I CHOOSE to believe when they posted more appropriately that they were sincere. I could, of course, be wrong and your description of what they were doing is true. I don't worry about such things because if they are playing such games, they'll reveal it soon enough. But why should I assume they are until that happens? I leave such assuming to you.
You said I was being used to "delay and disrupt ANY [emphasis added] negative comments. Which is clearly impossible when I've agreed with a number of them.
You can throw out an old saying, but it doesn't change the fact that you were wrong.
Which pretty much is what you do throughout your post so this is a good enough example for almost all the rest you wrote.
https://youtu.be/xpAvcGcEc0k
Any room with DBK in it....
Threads by their very nature are linear. You do not need to disagree with every comment all to be able to delay and disrupt any comments. Quite obviously there is enough disruption here with you agreeing with some and arguing with most points. Giving you the benefit of the most generous definition, the smallest majority that 'most' could be is 51%, so label on your tin states now only 51% percent argumentative twaddle which is a great victory for you, as that mean rather than nearly a quarter of all the comments and half of all the words in this thread being yours it could have been 40% of the posts and two thirds of the verbiage.
I'm not only right that you claiming one iota of balance is not supported by the evidence of our own eyes, but you claiming that and manner in which you argued it is so flawed as to be laughable.
You can be disruptive and delaying without agreeing or disagreeing with any post, If you responded with 5000 word essay on cats to every or even 51% of posts that would achieve both delay and disruption. So that amount of agreements and disagreements is at this point irrelevant.
Apples to Oranges.
I can see as you are trying to disengage from my points rather than argue them I'll take the win.
Show me oh White knight of the AI forums, where you defended me, specifically me, here, in this thread. There are over 100 posts here. Surely you managed to come up with some defence for a customer getting bullied by multi million dollar company?
Or concede the point.
R
Wow, so suddenly any disagreement is something for you to use to claim disruption. Well, too bad. You don’t get to say anything you want, unchallenged.
The point was not that they left 'you'. (I find it absolutely remarkable how you seem to miss the essential point of every sentence directed at you).
The point was that they left the field. Period. ('They' being Mark Knighton.) Waytools_Support abandoned any pretense of responding to valid criticism and disappeared after making a bunch of remarks that further blackened the already irreparably stained reputation of the company. They offered no direct or immediate solution to any of the primary problems. They are keeping all the money, and they still have given no indication they will ever ship a product. The currently published dates for 'estimated' shipping are, as they always have been, pure fabrication.
Again, you totally miss the point! (incredible) The point is that everyone - literally, everyone - knows how disingenuous you are in what you are doing.
Obviously you are going to get the last word, since you are paid to be here doing what you do. I concede that.
The bottom line is, Waytools must be routinely exposed for what they are and what they have done to minimize their ability to defraud people. People must be cautioned against giving them money for a product that will never ship. Hopefully this is the last time any reputable publisher will make the same mistakes Macrumors and Appleinsider have made. I hope the author of this article reads these comments, and considers a serious followup, with on the record quotes from Mark Knighton regarding the many issues raised here. Waytools does not deserve any publicity, unless it is an unequivocal warning to avoid them like the plague.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
I boggle at the capacity of some people to be either totally oblivious to their own bad behavior, or shamelessly dismissive of all the evidence of it when confronted with such.
Not many are like this, and thus rarely meet, and thus rarer still attempt to work together when they do. But when it happens, it would seem this is the sort of scenario you typically wind up with. WayTools. Activator Supply Company, Inc. Diamond Mortgage Company. Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC. Etc. The mindset of this type of person tends towards duplicitous if not criminal behavior.
Kahuna is an (extremely tedious) propagandist. In my opinion, there is no good will in what he is doing, shilling for a likely ponzi scheme. He got his return on investment as a 'treg tester', now he is playing his part to keep the money flowing in.
When something nice is offered, be it a great product, or a great investment, people line up. Many people are trusting, hopeful, and ultimately, gullible, and it is hard for them to see or admit when they have been tricked.
Thanks for the link. Interesting comments section. The Waytools shills are always ready to pounce and proclaim the product great and ready to ship! (2+ years ago!)
Untrue. Some indications would include the hands on event and the reporters who got to actually try it - thus establishing that it exists, works pretty well, and is well made. Another would be the Treg members who were shipped units. I can think of reasons it may never reach GR (as I can do with darn near any product before GR), but you did say "indications", not guarantees.
Just reading what you wrote. If that is a problem, it is on your end.
1. Even if I was paid, exactly how does that mean I get the last word? Does AI have some special deal I haven't heard of?
2. I am not paid.
Really? And exactly when did I say any such thing? No Treg member can know if it is ready. The MOST they can say is that they haven't had any problems and, if their situation is typical, they THINK it is ready to ship. But you'll have a hard time finding even that much. No, what we say is that it works great, but there have been issues, and that there are no doubt things we don't even know about.
(sorry Admin if I’ve trod in to your sphere... 😉)
You claimed you agreed with "some", so it's not disruption.
I said "some" is can not logically be "most". (the words have conflicting definitions)
So you disagree with most.
The useful minimum value of "most" in any group is 51% (most just has to be >50% but 50.00000001% is hard to visualise for readers so 51% will do here)
Which means that your are posting disruptive flack on behalf and to the benefit of WayTools for a minimum of 12% of this thread.
If someone said that a delicious pie contained "some things you liked" and then muttered "An eighth of it is dog turds" you probably would be suspicious of the person serving you the pie.
So let me tot up here.
Emotive language Waah, waah waaahhh use of emotive language; and old favourite returns:
Nothing has changed here. Waah, waah waaahhh , and shame shame shame implying that change has occurred in another's position when it is that the same is a form of strawman.
Maybe, but as this is a strawman shame shame shame, and phew, stinky a red herring. I shan't bother arguing it at this time.
Delicious! Ding negative assertion.
Notice especially he fail to be make a specific enough claim:
None of which matters.
I know this is at Smurf but if the studio audience will indulge me on this:
Not the issue, they like their posts, possibly Shame Shame shame, but let's check it's not just a mistake by DBK.
If you meant "If they don't like me addressing parts of their post.." then that makes more sense in context.
Moving on.
So maybe they should leave out the things you don't agree with? Maybe, and this is opinion here, you are offering an ultimatum with this statement?
If you only post things I (DBK) agree with I will not comment on you post pointing out at length my (DBK's) disagreements.
Yeah, that seems more like an ultimatum after that. Loving that pro-censorship stance there pal, it's a good look on you.So our take away is:
Never be critical of WT unless you have seen DBK say it first, Or else DBK with hound you across platforms, in PM's, anywhere until you stop.
Because that's normal.
R
edit: changed a word.
Put another way; try fixing the knots in your own knitting - you’re the only one who can actually fix them...
(I strongly suspect you’ll view the above as if it’s an “attack” which needs to be “defended” or addressed in some way - it isn’t an attack at all, simply an observation around what’s actually going on under the hood of all human beings (myself included) - whether or not you apply any of that to yourself is a matter for you. You either will or you won’t; seeing how you choose to respond will demonstrate your choices - I’ll happily be astonished if you choose not to feel the need to respond or “defend” but rather accept a reasonable point which isn’t actually an attack... for what it’s worth, I try in this same regard and sometimes succeed and sometimes fail, but I’m capable of seeing my failings from time to time - like all people; probably not enough - and I endeavour to adjust those failings - you don’t appear willing to concede any point for any reason if it comes from some quarters; that’s simply not normal... oh and please don’t pick up on pedantic semantics over use of the word “any” in that last sentence - it would be an afore mentioned “poor choices” and would demonstrate a point...)
Smurf
1. Anyone can challenge. That includes me. Are you unaware of that?
2. Doesn't have to be anyone in particular, but it can include me. Are you unaware of that?
3. This is the one I need to explain to others. You see, over on Reddit, people like to talk about me. They did it before I even joined Reddit. They did it after I joined. And they continue to do it after they banned me from their little subreddit (which happened immediately after I made my first two responses to posts ABOUT ME - because I was supposedly "off topic". Go figure.
So, when I get posted about, I choose to respond (cause, meet effect). But I can't post publicly where they are talking about me. So instead I send a private message to the person who does it. Then, when it is Rolanbek, he used to send a private message back complaining that I'm sending him private messages, in spite of the fact that I've told him many times that if he doesn't talk about me publicly, I won't be responding privately.
You have to admit, it takes a lot of gall to talk about someone in public (negatively) and then complain about a private response!
Oh, they can include whatever they want. And I can choose to respond to it. It is only if they don't want something responded to, they shouldn't say it. Simple.
And then it just gets kinda weird. Well, weirder. I wrote:
> "Their choice to make".
And your response?:
Amazing. Now saying something is a choice is supposedly an "ultimatum".
I'm simply pointing out that it is absurd to post something and then complain if someone responds to it. They can still post it, but they don't get to set rules about whether people can respond to it. They can complain about it all they want. Won't matter though.
That being said...
Anything on Waytools, TextBlade, TREG (beta testing group), customer relations, good/bad faith from the vendor... etc... etc...
...you certainly (and sadly) demonstrated the points I was so hoping against hope you’d prove me wrong on (on pivoting and on self-control)... oh well, I guess I’ll just have to keep hoping against hope that you’ll one day see the light... or the point... or perhaps not see everything as something to declare war over... [cheesy smile emoji]
(Edited to add second last paragraph)