There are two issues at play here: 1) whether the usage of 'fora' was wrong or not; 2) whether my correction had ill intent.
Many Latin words words were anglicized. During that process they then generally take the English "s" for plurals. "Forum" being one of the many anglicized words then naturally follow the English rules of grammar, hence "forums" rather than "fora".
As to you claims of "exclusive", "not wrong", etc. the following authors and their books would beg to differ....I chose only these books because they specifically refer to 'fora' vs 'forums' issue.
1. It was not wrong. You had ill intent as shown from your post on the other forum. If you think not, then try to explain how they were "insisting" that fora be used? Because if just by using the word themselves means they are "insisting", then you must be "insisting" people use virtually every word in your post. For example, you would be "insisting" people use "chose" rather than other options (like "select") or "generally" rather than, say, "usually".
Just to be clear, there's no one holding a gun to anyone's head saying NOT to do it. Certainly, no one's 'attacking' anyone, nor even triggering 'verbal violence.' There are many misuse between "it's" vs "its", "they're" vs "their" vs "there" which has gotten so bad nobody even bothers to 'correct' them. I mean, if you want to speak exclusively in gobbledygook, this is certainly the country to do it.
No authorities in the field nor dictionaries will demand "you must" do it a certain way. For example, The AP Styles Guide only 'recommends' putting 'the' in front of words like "reverend" and "United States", for example. There are many upon many such 'rules' in the guide. You may not like it, and again no one's putting a gun to their head. But you risk sounding ridiculous, stupid and yes, wrong, because in the end what is recommended is the proper way, the correct way.
2. Yep, many words are anglicized. I said that myself in post 58 - wasn't even a long post. How'd you miss that? And many words are not anglicized. And many words have both forms accepted (such as in this case).
It sounded to me like you didn't really understand the word 'anglicized'. Even Poisednoise spelled it out for you afterwards. If I was wrong, I stand 'corrected' -- but only if you acknowledge that I wasn't trying to 'attack' (or 'criticize' or attempting 'verbal violence') by using the word again.
3. Funny thing, but I followed your 3 links and search for "for" (so I would find either "fora" or "forums". Neither one showed up! But it wouldn't matter what they say. They can talk all they want about what THEY prefer. Or what most people do or what they think they should do. Yet their preference is not a rule. Besides, you particularly can't claim that because you already used a more recognized resource with the Oxford dictionary quote - which said how "fora" was CHIEFLY used. Thus not limited to that. So, to accept those 3, assuming they even say what you claim, you have to reject your prior source
The reference to 'fora' vs 'forums' is in the books, NOT in the wiki page descriptions or on the site where you can buy those books. Perhaps since I was nice enough to link them, you could meet me halfway and buy them off Amazon by yourself?
And again, I repeat: No one (certainly not me) held a gun to Waytools for misusing the word, hence a 'correction'. If you can see that you'll see that OED definition as well as the definitions in the books I referenced align quite well, and clearly. And again, I repeat: My intent was not an 'attack' nor 'verbal violence' or even 'criticism'. If I had had ill intent, I could have ridiculed them to death -- not for being wrong -- but rather for sounding ridiculous/pompous/patronizing, but I refrained, hence I deemed it 'courtesy' or at least benign. As with the definition, majority of the English-speaking public will agree on that too.
Finally, my usage of the word 'insist' stems from the fact that they repeated 'fora' vs 'forums' but answering nothing else I had asked of them, meaning they focused only on that, and thus it was purposeful. I believe you did too, but I'm willing to stand 'corrected'.
You're right. Though I try to provide balance to WT's many messages because they seemed one-sided
And I'd like to add (for people who don't understand), I think most people don't care about $99 after years of waiting. I think most would simply write that off. What they'd like is closure to the messed-up relationship that occurred in the ~4 years of waiting with Waytools. For many people still with orders still pending (and wasn't force-cancelled or anything), they'd like to get some official clarification from Waytools and/or delivery of the product -- anything that could absolve the angst and frustration of waiting and constant frustration from them.
1. Of course they are "one-sided". So is Apple, Samsung, etc. But there isn't anything wrong with that. Nor is in wrong if someone only complains about not having their TB yet. Or about delays. Or lack of an update. They would be "one sided" because of their own bias of wanting something they don't have yet.
Maybe I should have put "one-sided" in quotes, but I was being nice, lest some people think they're being 'attacked' or causing 'verbal violence'. I think it's safe to assume that everyone here and on WTF, most people are used to typical marketing speak, namely Apple, Samsung, et al. And that for someone to point it out (especially by one who had publicly called them 'liar') should raise eye-brows.
Finally, my usage of the word 'insist' stems from the fact that they repeated 'fora' vs 'forums' but answering nothing else I had asked of them, meaning they focused only on that, and thus it was purposeful.
Well, I started out responding point by point until I got to the part above so, since you prefer shorter posts anyway, I decided to just focus on that part.
First, the post in question doesn't even seem to be directed at you so it wouldn't be about your questions. However, it is fine if you wish to say that you haven't gotten answers to some question anyway. I've never objected to that.
But your argument for why you said they insisted doesn't hold up. Consider:
WT used "fora" exactly twice in a post on April 12th. That's a total of 8 characters in a long post they made containing 3193 characters on 3 subjects! So not exactly much of a repetition pattern! And they weren't pushing that spelling over the alternative anymore than my typing the word "post" 6 times in this means I'm "pushing" that word over "message". It wasn't even the focus of that section of their long post!
This was the day that you followed with the comment about them "insisting" on "fora" so it had to be based on that specific post.
Thus I submit you read their comments, already mad, and thus over-reacted in your interpretation. It can happen. I did it with a forum member once (later he got in Treg but not in at that time). But if it was an over-reaction, it is easy to correct.
Finally, my usage of the word 'insist' stems from the fact that they repeated 'fora' vs 'forums' but answering nothing else I had asked of them, meaning they focused only on that, and thus it was purposeful.
Thus I submit you read their comments, already mad, and thus over-reacted in your interpretation. It can happen. I did it with a forum member once (later he got in Treg but not in at that time). But if it was an over-reaction, it is easy to correct.
That is an excellent example of Kahunas passive-aggressive gaslighting at work. Eric, you made a mistake by daring to correct Waytools cringe-worthy mangling of the English language. Its ok though, if you just 'correct' your mistake and admit you were completely wrong, then maybe just maybe someday you can be in TREG too if Kahuna says so (which happens to be the only way anyone will ever receive a Textblade, because they will never be distributed en masse to those who purchased them).
If they got 10 or 20 new buyers from the Appleinsider article, that should be enough cash to send out at least 1 new TREG keyboard, and put the remainder towards critical company operations (word on the street is that there's a soft spot in Mark Knighton's mattress that needs some shoring up).
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
I don't know if anyone has read this far into the comments, but if they have I'd like to mention something that I should have done much earlier.
There was actually an article written in mid-2015 by James Kendrick of ZDNet, which is parent/sister company to the likes of Cnet, PC Magazine, various IT oriented magazines, etc. -- meaning it's a mainstream publication company, as opposed to boutique blogs. So, in between the first Macrumors coverage and this Apple Insider one, Kendrick wrote two articles for ZDNet.
The company's behavior is unprofessional at best and borderline unethical at worst.
...
Now that I've cancelled the Textblade order, I'm watching my credit card account closely to see how long it takes them to give me my money. It's not like Waytools has given me reason to trust that they'll do it quickly.
A couple other good excerpts from the articles:
The deck beneath the headline of the 2nd article (and note the date!):
It doesn't matter how innovative a product is if it never ships. By James Kendrick for Mobile News | August 3, 2015 -- 12:04 GMT (05:04 PDT) | Topic: Hardware
From the 1st article:
Some buyers may be willing to give TextBlade a pass, but in this writer's view once you start selling a product and charging buyers' credit cards, it should be ready to go out the door. If it wasn't good enough to ship, it wasn't good enough to sell.
That is 100% correct. The Textblade was not good enough to sell - 4 years ago! - but do you know what Waytools did? They took money from people anyway, knowing it was not good enough to sell, in fact, knowing they had no intention of actually selling it.
These are the sort of people you are dealing with here: people of poor moral character, unethical, dishonest, willing to extract cash from others via deception, and then further that deception relentlessly and shamelessly to enrich themselves.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
I think most people don't care about $99 after years of waiting. I think most would simply write that off. What they'd like is closure to the messed-up relationship that occurred in the ~4 years of waiting with Waytools.
Very true. And many after waiting for so long think, well I can wait a little longer.
The promise of the TB is very enchanting / alluring (do not know the right term), so we all put up with longer times we would not be willing to if it was a Microsoft fold-up keyboard what we were talking about for example - as good as they are.
Interestingly, most Treg members would probably agree with most of your complaints. They might use milder terms, but the areas of complaint would match up quite well. And I and some others members have posted those complaints publicly as well as said so to Mark on calls or in private messaging.
In fact, I did exactly that last night when he called me. He may be tired of hearing me bring it up!
My issue (and some others) is those who go way past those reasonable concerns.
You seem to me - at least what I've read lately - to be a person who could be a good Treg member. Critical but rational about it.
Well thanks. It is good that at least there seems to be some degree of consensus of things to be fixed / addressed. Some of these comments I made to them directly by email. But normally I do not get a response, and if I do it would be a one liner.
So my question to you is: what kind of response do the Treg members get when they raise these topics ? Do you think there is any chance of the banning and order cancelling practice to be abolished ? Some kind of compromise ?
You seem to me - at least what I've read lately - to be a person who could be a good Treg member. Critical but rational about it
Thanks. Tell that to Mark and team. Ha If you take out the emotional parts of theses messages and a little of the way they were outlined, I think a huge lot of the posters have valid points. Sometimes we get carried away and we start discussing minor aggravating details but not the substance of the comments. That is worse when the insults come in.
That is an excellent example of Kahunas passive-aggressive gaslighting at work. Eric, you made a mistake by daring to correct Waytools cringe-worthy mangling of the English language. Its ok though, if you just 'correct' your mistake and admit you were completely wrong, then maybe just maybe someday you can be in TREG too if Kahuna says so (which happens to be the only way anyone will ever receive a Textblade, because they will never be distributed en masse to those who purchased them).
Gotcha again.
I was talking about a case when I mis-interpreted what the other person said. MY mistake. Thus MY apology for reading in something that wasn't there.
Well thanks. It is good that at least there seems to be some degree of consensus of things to be fixed / addressed.
So my question to you is: what kind of response do the Treg members get when they raise these topics ? Do you think there is any chance of the banning and order cancelling practice to be abolished ? Some kind of compromise ?
You seem to me - at least what I've read lately - to be a person who could be a good Treg member. Critical but rational about it
Thanks. Tell that to Mark and team. Ha If you take out the emotional parts of theses messages and a little of the way they were outlined, I think a huge lot of the posters have valid points.
1. I've been saying for ages that nearly everyone agrees on the legitimate issues. What we need are people who don't go nuts with the other wild accusations. I mean, pretty much as soon as I defended WT on something, I was accused of working for the company and even of being Mark! And they just kept at it in various ways (like using "shill" now so much). I'm not going to put up with that crap about me or anyone else.
2. The response is not what I'd like since I want the same thing you do. Usually it comes down to something like they say on the forum - that they need to do X before they post an update (where X is nothing you can put your finger on but just a general thing). Sometimes I can see their point in a delay. Sometimes I can't, but also know that some things I shouldn't be told anyway.
3. If I push any particular name, it could work against them. I don't think WT wants me to get the idea that I have that kind of influence. And if they did pick someone I pushed strongly for, they may avoid that person just because some critics would make that an issue! So I limit myself to more general comments about people that seem to be posting in thoughtful ways but not really push for any of them.
4. I think too much of it goes past "emotional parts". As I said, I didn't like what someone said once but I had gone into the post with a preconceived idea and I was simply wrong. So when I realized it (and it took a long time before I realized my misinterpretation), I stopped doing it and admitted I had goofed. But some of these people just keep doing the same thing no matter what facts are provided. Those are the people I have no objection to banning even if I wouldn't do it myself. Same with canceling. In both cases, I'd draw the line much differently that WT and will (and have) given examples where I thought they overreacted. But some are appropriate. Keep in mind I only see what they post publicly. Some of these rant in private messages so it is possible WT is right about those and I just don't have the info to know.
Don't fall for their tricks. These shills want to rather focus on things like:
the devious ploy behind 'forums' vs 'fora'
it's all about the $99. Get the refund and GTFO
you're no longer a customer. So STFU.
4 cents is not worth the postage, and as everyone knows you never mail anything worth less than the stamp
peekaboo, here's (yet another) wall of text
1. YOU made an issue of forums vs fora. You just don't like it when you are shown to be wrong.
2. Nope. It's about many things. People complaining about others ordering while they keep their own order is just one of them.
3. Who said STFU?
4. You clearly missed the point of the 4 cents thing.
5. Once again, making an issue of HOW someone writes instead of focusing on WHAT they write. And, of course, you never complain about any long posts from the critics.
Next.
Hi there all, first time poster, but long term Waytools/TextBlade/Dabigkahuna sufferer...
I’ve read this thread quietly in the background and found it quite entertaining. I’m confident that the frustration people feel with the way they are treated by Waytools is well evidenced; any criticism or frustration suggested toward the way they have been treated as a customer is taken by the company personally and the complainant is treated with scorn and cast out by the company - i.e. “no soup for you” [paraphrasing the forced refund]. The idea that someone could want the device and continue with their order whilst at the same time being extremely critical of Waytools conduct toward customers seems anathema to them, whereas it is entirely understandable to most reasonable people... They can’t seem to comprehend it; it seems that in their mind, an order or being a customer cannot by definition contain any level of dissatisfaction.
(Keep in mind I’m one of the customers who continues to maintain their order for 2 x Textblades, but was critical of their behaviour on their forums and has had their account silenced; technically my account is active, but I have no posting privileges - I am an example of how Waytools are very quick to silence people critical of their conduct and are extremely thin skinned. I want the product. I want them to successfully ship it. I want my early adopter “gift”. I want them to be successful. I’ve sadly and unfortunately seen none of the above...)
Now, on to the small point I wanted to highlight...
Point 5...
This is a bit rich... For goodness sake dbk, hypocrisy doesn’t become any of us, least of all you...
Even you’d have to admit you are at “World Class Level” of diverting from/ignoring the substance of a post and focusing on the minutiae of wordplay to a pedantic level and doggedly arguing and arguing for the grammatical point for the sake of argument...
Several people here, me included, have fallen in to arguing the meaning of a word rather than the substance behind it, but you, my friend, are in a league of your own...
There is however a silver lining of hope; earlier in this thread, you acknowledged you had ruminated on a position you’d taken and several years later decided that you may have been wrong. That’s a really good step and shows you have the capacity to change and adjust your behaviour - it just sometimes takes years... From my experience, you sometimes don’t “like” what someone has said [whether directed to you or not - you don’t mind jumping in to other people’s problems...] and you... for want of a better term - “see red” (have an an amygdala hijack). I just hope in this instance you take some deep breaths and stop being in “permanent attack/defence mode” long enough to recognise when you are focusing on pedantry instead of substance.
TLDR; don’t call people out for doing things you yourself do to a vastly greater degree (unless it is to help them avoid making your mistakes)...
Well that appears to show a staggering lack of self awareness.
You do you, pal. I'll be drinking my tea.
Tippy assam If it matters. Leaves not bags I'm not a barbarian.
Hi Smurf, Nancy. We are just waiting to see if Eric and TBD are going to wear themselves out shouting at the monkey. The organ grinder went missing shortly after someone mentioned Nextengine's very own Jarndyce vs Jarndyce.
The response is not what I'd like since I want the same thing you do. Usually it comes down to something like they say on the forum - that they need to do X before they post an update (where X is nothing you can put your finger on but just a general thing). Sometimes I can see their point in a delay. Sometimes I can't, but also know that some things I shouldn't be told anyway.
You mentioned to have sometimes calls with Mark, so when they are not very clear or comprehensive, do you or somebody else they listen to mention it / push them for more info? What do they respond back with ?
The lack of project status communication is a big warning light - No company doing well / having positive news to tell stays mum and says as little as possible to their eager customer base. Much less when asked again and again and again. I have difficulty finding a positive spin to their lack of (comprehensive project status) communication.
Because they DO stay very active on WTF forums, and spend a lot of time posting on many different topics, but unrelated to the TB (cooktops, helmets, help you with your Mac, etc etc), so it is not that they don't have the time. The question is why can't they invest a little of that time and put a comprehensive project update together ? (not only the fork but all the remaining gates to be overcome until GR).
In the corporate world, every time there is silence is not normally a good sign. And in this case they are very vocal but perhaps "on the wrong topics". They have us wondering and that is a strange way to communicate with customers.
Ericpeet - maybe have a look at the bullet points in our post, if you like answers more than questions. Or perhaps your point is to frame knowns as unknowns.
Alexonline - people have already received properly working units. Since you don’t have an order, and you say it’s vaporware, it’s curious you still spend time on it.
You people are incredible and ridiculous. I had an order for two years. You banned me because I posted in the RANTS section. You refused to re-instate me. Every few months I come back to see if you lot have launched yet, but all you get is smarmy, condescending, rude remarks from YOU - the Waytools support rep who is only less slightly wordy than DBK.
Listen you sanctimonious people - ship your damn product. It has been FOUR YEARS. You lied to us in the start, you've continued to lie, and you suggest that sending out beta test units to people is "properly working units" as though you'd shipped to customers. That is another blatant lie from you, Waytools.
When, or rather if, you ever ship, chances are very high that I'll place an order - as a technology journalist who has been using tech since 1979, I love all new technologies that look like they are going to change the world. It's why I ORDERED A TEXTBLADE from you! But after four years, and lots of overly wordy nonsense from you, it's no wonder that plenty of us reside in the Reddit forum, having been BANNED BY YOU, and come back every few months to "curiously spend time on it".
If only YOU curiously spent some time on FINISHING YOUR DAMNED PRODUCT, you might have some happy customers (not BETA TESTERS) who would be happily using your product.
Instead you have a few hundred beta testers. Clappity clap clap.
Wake me when you ship. Until then, stop answering people like me and bloody well GET BACK TO WORK.
Another poster criticizing this company years after receiving a refund for a $99 product. I ask again, why? Time to move on with your life and let go of the bitterness, Alex.
I'll "let go of the bitterness" when people like you rack off, and when Waytools SHIPS.
You mentioned to have sometimes calls with Mark, so when they are not very clear or comprehensive, do you or somebody else they listen to mention it / push them for more info? What do they respond back with ?
The lack of project status communication is a big warning light - No company doing well / having positive news to tell stays mum and says as little as possible to their eager customer base. Much less when asked again and again and again. I have difficulty finding a positive spin to their lack of (comprehensive project status) communication.
Well, it's hard to explain a conversation on a discussion board. But I certainly don't get in arguments with WT. I give my views on these things and they give theirs and I may make a counter argument to what they say. But even if they do (or don't do) something that I really disagree about, it is still their product and their decision and I respect that.
I certainly agree that lack of communication is not going to be a good sign. Whether it is actually something seriously bad - as in they will hit GR - none of us can truly "know" until GR happens.
I can think of plenty of things they have done or may do that I don't know about yet which I would may think are not good decisions. But I don't see anything that would mean they aren't making a good product and making it work better.
maybe I should have put "one-sided" in quotes, but i used to be being best, lest a few people think they're being 'attacked' or causing 'verbal violence'. I suppose it's secure to anticipate that everybody right here and on WTF, the general public are used to traditional advertising talk, particularly Apple, Samsung, et al. And that for a person to point it out (specifically with the aid of one that had publicly referred to as them 'liar') need to improve eye-brows.
**cough** err you.. got a little.. something there. Yeah, just there...
So anyway, people who behave nicely engender nice interactions, people who don't, don't. That not to say people some people are not just A-holes, because some people are definitely just A-holes. I have had some lovely interaction with other WT customers both banned, and unbanned, and also with Ex customers. I can count the number of people involved in this with which I have recurrent negative interactions on the fingers of one hand.
But then I have to count all the anonymous pseudonyms used by WT as 1 don't I? Because while they may have named staff, they are not named accounts.
Oh, and it would be unwise to put publicly put names on Pravda **cough**sorry - the Waytools Support account. No one needs that hanging round their neck.
I'm just fascinated as to how this all plays out, No one is really talking about our favourite coathanger keyboard and they won't as long as WT hide behind DBK. They seem comfortable in using him to delay and disrupt any negative comments and for him to do the work that a marketing department, or indeed the owner of the IP should be doing. Like him, loathe him, or any point in between, WT demonstrate with every day of silence what craven cowards they are in knowingly throwing a member of the public under the bus. DBK may be up for a fight, and that certainly seems to be the case, but it is not his fight to have.
In this thread:
WT has lied about their customers. WT has lied about financial transactions with customers. (see above) WT has lied about what happened in 2016 on the MR forums.
I don't really mind what DBK opinion is on any of those topics , his opinions and his argumentation are his problem. And that isn't really meant to be mean about DBK, it is just that his opinion on what WT means is less interesting that what WT actually say. I care what WT has to say for themselves, and so far all we have had is mudslinging, accusations and tantrums.
Good Job WT_support! You really earned your money there
So in the interest of asking an actual question regarding the actual product:
WT you have said previously that you would not print the updated formula green paint onto new keycaps until you are certain that there will be no further hardware revisions and specifically no more revisions to the mold for those keycaps. Have you printed those keycaps yet?
They seem comfortable in using him to delay and disrupt any negative comments
DBK may be up for a fight, and that certainly seems to be the case, but it is not his fight to have.
1. That's strange since in multiple posts I have agreed or at least said a number of the negative comments were reasonable. Pretty sure agreeing with some of the criticisms is no the same thing as "disrupting" them.
2. It is my fight. It is, in my opinion, everyone's fight, but most choose to abandon the field those who are not reasonable in their comments. As a member of society, I have this tiny little bit of influence - same as other members. So I choose to stand against outrageous attacks. Stood by for 2 years hoping that by ignoring such things and being nice, I could have positive, useful discussions. After 2 years I realized it didn't matter so for decades since then, I'm nice right up to the point where the person whose posts I'm reading are not.
Comments
No authorities in the field nor dictionaries will demand "you must" do it a certain way. For example, The AP Styles Guide only 'recommends' putting 'the' in front of words like "reverend" and "United States", for example. There are many upon many such 'rules' in the guide. You may not like it, and again no one's putting a gun to their head. But you risk sounding ridiculous, stupid and yes, wrong, because in the end what is recommended is the proper way, the correct way.
It sounded to me like you didn't really understand the word 'anglicized'. Even Poisednoise spelled it out for you afterwards. If I was wrong, I stand 'corrected' -- but only if you acknowledge that I wasn't trying to 'attack' (or 'criticize' or attempting 'verbal violence') by using the word again.
The reference to 'fora' vs 'forums' is in the books, NOT in the wiki page descriptions or on the site where you can buy those books. Perhaps since I was nice enough to link them, you could meet me halfway and buy them off Amazon by yourself?
And again, I repeat: No one (certainly not me) held a gun to Waytools for misusing the word, hence a 'correction'. If you can see that you'll see that OED definition as well as the definitions in the books I referenced align quite well, and clearly. And again, I repeat: My intent was not an 'attack' nor 'verbal violence' or even 'criticism'. If I had had ill intent, I could have ridiculed them to death -- not for being wrong -- but rather for sounding ridiculous/pompous/patronizing, but I refrained, hence I deemed it 'courtesy' or at least benign. As with the definition, majority of the English-speaking public will agree on that too.
Finally, my usage of the word 'insist' stems from the fact that they repeated 'fora' vs 'forums' but answering nothing else I had asked of them, meaning they focused only on that, and thus it was purposeful. I believe you did too, but I'm willing to stand 'corrected'.
First, the post in question doesn't even seem to be directed at you so it wouldn't be about your questions. However, it is fine if you wish to say that you haven't gotten answers to some question anyway. I've never objected to that.
But your argument for why you said they insisted doesn't hold up. Consider:
WT used "fora" exactly twice in a post on April 12th. That's a total of 8 characters in a long post they made containing 3193 characters on 3 subjects! So not exactly much of a repetition pattern! And they weren't pushing that spelling over the alternative anymore than my typing the word "post" 6 times in this means I'm "pushing" that word over "message". It wasn't even the focus of that section of their long post!
This was the day that you followed with the comment about them "insisting" on "fora" so it had to be based on that specific post.
Thus I submit you read their comments, already mad, and thus over-reacted in your interpretation. It can happen. I did it with a forum member once (later he got in Treg but not in at that time). But if it was an over-reaction, it is easy to correct.
If they got 10 or 20 new buyers from the Appleinsider article, that should be enough cash to send out at least 1 new TREG keyboard, and put the remainder towards critical company operations (word on the street is that there's a soft spot in Mark Knighton's mattress that needs some shoring up).
The deck beneath the headline of the 2nd article (and note the date!):From the 1st article:
That is 100% correct. The Textblade was not good enough to sell - 4 years ago! - but do you know what Waytools did? They took money from people anyway, knowing it was not good enough to sell, in fact, knowing they had no intention of actually selling it.
These are the sort of people you are dealing with here: people of poor moral character, unethical, dishonest, willing to extract cash from others via deception, and then further that deception relentlessly and shamelessly to enrich themselves.
The promise of the TB is very enchanting / alluring (do not know the right term), so we all put up with longer times we would not be willing to if it was a Microsoft fold-up keyboard what we were talking about for example - as good as they are.
Well thanks. It is good that at least there seems to be some degree of consensus of things to be fixed / addressed.
Some of these comments I made to them directly by email. But normally I do not get a response, and if I do it would be a one liner.
So my question to you is: what kind of response do the Treg members get when they raise these topics ?
Do you think there is any chance of the banning and order cancelling practice to be abolished ? Some kind of compromise ?
Thanks. Tell that to Mark and team. Ha
If you take out the emotional parts of theses messages and a little of the way they were outlined, I think a huge lot of the posters have valid points.
Sometimes we get carried away and we start discussing minor aggravating details but not the substance of the comments. That is worse when the insults come in.
edit: spelling
I was talking about a case when I mis-interpreted what the other person said. MY mistake. Thus MY apology for reading in something that wasn't there.
1. I've been saying for ages that nearly everyone agrees on the legitimate issues. What we need are people who don't go nuts with the other wild accusations. I mean, pretty much as soon as I defended WT on something, I was accused of working for the company and even of being Mark! And they just kept at it in various ways (like using "shill" now so much). I'm not going to put up with that crap about me or anyone else.
2. The response is not what I'd like since I want the same thing you do. Usually it comes down to something like they say on the forum - that they need to do X before they post an update (where X is nothing you can put your finger on but just a general thing). Sometimes I can see their point in a delay. Sometimes I can't, but also know that some things I shouldn't be told anyway.
4. I think too much of it goes past "emotional parts". As I said, I didn't like what someone said once but I had gone into the post with a preconceived idea and I was simply wrong. So when I realized it (and it took a long time before I realized my misinterpretation), I stopped doing it and admitted I had goofed. But some of these people just keep doing the same thing no matter what facts are provided. Those are the people I have no objection to banning even if I wouldn't do it myself. Same with canceling. In both cases, I'd draw the line much differently that WT and will (and have) given examples where I thought they overreacted. But some are appropriate. Keep in mind I only see what they post publicly. Some of these rant in private messages so it is possible WT is right about those and I just don't have the info to know.
I’ve read this thread quietly in the background and found it quite entertaining. I’m confident that the frustration people feel with the way they are treated by Waytools is well evidenced; any criticism or frustration suggested toward the way they have been treated as a customer is taken by the company personally and the complainant is treated with scorn and cast out by the company - i.e. “no soup for you” [paraphrasing the forced refund]. The idea that someone could want the device and continue with their order whilst at the same time being extremely critical of Waytools conduct toward customers seems anathema to them, whereas it is entirely understandable to most reasonable people... They can’t seem to comprehend it; it seems that in their mind, an order or being a customer cannot by definition contain any level of dissatisfaction.
(Keep in mind I’m one of the customers who continues to maintain their order for 2 x Textblades, but was critical of their behaviour on their forums and has had their account silenced; technically my account is active, but I have no posting privileges - I am an example of how Waytools are very quick to silence people critical of their conduct and are extremely thin skinned. I want the product. I want them to successfully ship it. I want my early adopter “gift”. I want them to be successful. I’ve sadly and unfortunately seen none of the above...)
Now, on to the small point I wanted to highlight...
Point 5...
This is a bit rich... For goodness sake dbk, hypocrisy doesn’t become any of us, least of all you...
Even you’d have to admit you are at “World Class Level” of diverting from/ignoring the substance of a post and focusing on the minutiae of wordplay to a pedantic level and doggedly arguing and arguing for the grammatical point for the sake of argument...
Several people here, me included, have fallen in to arguing the meaning of a word rather than the substance behind it, but you, my friend, are in a league of your own...
There is however a silver lining of hope; earlier in this thread, you acknowledged you had ruminated on a position you’d taken and several years later decided that you may have been wrong. That’s a really good step and shows you have the capacity to change and adjust your behaviour - it just sometimes takes years... From my experience, you sometimes don’t “like” what someone has said [whether directed to you or not - you don’t mind jumping in to other people’s problems...] and you... for want of a better term - “see red” (have an an amygdala hijack). I just hope in this instance you take some deep breaths and stop being in “permanent attack/defence mode” long enough to recognise when you are focusing on pedantry instead of substance.
TLDR; don’t call people out for doing things you yourself do to a vastly greater degree (unless it is to help them avoid making your mistakes)...
Smurf
You do you, pal. I'll be drinking my tea.
Tippy assam If it matters. Leaves not bags I'm not a barbarian.
Hi Smurf, Nancy. We are just waiting to see if Eric and TBD are going to wear themselves out shouting at the monkey. The organ grinder went missing shortly after someone mentioned Nextengine's very own Jarndyce vs Jarndyce.
R
The lack of project status communication is a big warning light - No company doing well / having positive news to tell stays mum and says as little as possible to their eager customer base. Much less when asked again and again and again. I have difficulty finding a positive spin to their lack of (comprehensive project status) communication.
Because they DO stay very active on WTF forums, and spend a lot of time posting on many different topics, but unrelated to the TB (cooktops, helmets, help you with your Mac, etc etc), so it is not that they don't have the time. The question is why can't they invest a little of that time and put a comprehensive project update together ? (not only the fork but all the remaining gates to be overcome until GR).
In the corporate world, every time there is silence is not normally a good sign. And in this case they are very vocal but perhaps "on the wrong topics". They have us wondering and that is a strange way to communicate with customers.
Edit: spelling
I certainly agree that lack of communication is not going to be a good sign. Whether it is actually something seriously bad - as in they will hit GR - none of us can truly "know" until GR happens.
I can think of plenty of things they have done or may do that I don't know about yet which I would may think are not good decisions. But I don't see anything that would mean they aren't making a good product and making it work better.
Interesting that when that happens, a lot of common ground is found.
**cough** err you.. got a little.. something there. Yeah, just there...
So anyway, people who behave nicely engender nice interactions, people who don't, don't. That not to say people some people are not just A-holes, because some people are definitely just A-holes. I have had some lovely interaction with other WT customers both banned, and unbanned, and also with Ex customers. I can count the number of people involved in this with which I have recurrent negative interactions on the fingers of one hand.
But then I have to count all the anonymous pseudonyms used by WT as 1 don't I? Because while they may have named staff, they are not named accounts.
Oh, and it would be unwise to put publicly put names on Pravda **cough** sorry - the Waytools Support account. No one needs that hanging round their neck.
I'm just fascinated as to how this all plays out, No one is really talking about our favourite coathanger keyboard and they won't as long as WT hide behind DBK. They seem comfortable in using him to delay and disrupt any negative comments and for him to do the work that a marketing department, or indeed the owner of the IP should be doing. Like him, loathe him, or any point in between, WT demonstrate with every day of silence what craven cowards they are in knowingly throwing a member of the public under the bus. DBK may be up for a fight, and that certainly seems to be the case, but it is not his fight to have.
In this thread:
WT has lied about their customers.
WT has lied about financial transactions with customers. (see above)
WT has lied about what happened in 2016 on the MR forums.
I don't really mind what DBK opinion is on any of those topics , his opinions and his argumentation are his problem. And that isn't really meant to be mean about DBK, it is just that his opinion on what WT means is less interesting that what WT actually say. I care what WT has to say for themselves, and so far all we have had is mudslinging, accusations and tantrums.
Good Job WT_support! You really earned your money there
So in the interest of asking an actual question regarding the actual product:
WT you have said previously that you would not print the updated formula green paint onto new keycaps until you are certain that there will be no further hardware revisions and specifically no more revisions to the mold for those keycaps. Have you printed those keycaps yet?
Simple question, should have a simple answer.
R
2. It is my fight. It is, in my opinion, everyone's fight, but most choose to abandon the field those who are not reasonable in their comments. As a member of society, I have this tiny little bit of influence - same as other members. So I choose to stand against outrageous attacks. Stood by for 2 years hoping that by ignoring such things and being nice, I could have positive, useful discussions. After 2 years I realized it didn't matter so for decades since then, I'm nice right up to the point where the person whose posts I'm reading are not.