Ericpeet - maybe have a look at the bullet points in our post, if you like answers more than questions. Or perhaps your point is to frame knowns as unknowns.
Alexonline - people have already received properly working units. Since you don’t have an order, and you say it’s vaporware, it’s curious you still spend time on it.
You people are incredible and ridiculous. I had an order for two years. You banned me because I posted in the RANTS section. You refused to re-instate me. Every few months I come back to see if you lot have launched yet, but all you get is smarmy, condescending, rude remarks from YOU - the Waytools support rep who is only less slightly wordy than DBK.
Listen you sanctimonious people - ship your damn product. It has been FOUR YEARS. You lied to us in the start, you've continued to lie, and you suggest that sending out beta test units to people is "properly working units" as though you'd shipped to customers. That is another blatant lie from you, Waytools.
When, or rather if, you ever ship, chances are very high that I'll place an order - as a technology journalist who has been using tech since 1979, I love all new technologies that look like they are going to change the world. It's why I ORDERED A TEXTBLADE from you! But after four years, and lots of overly wordy nonsense from you, it's no wonder that plenty of us reside in the Reddit forum, having been BANNED BY YOU, and come back every few months to "curiously spend time on it".
If only YOU curiously spent some time on FINISHING YOUR DAMNED PRODUCT, you might have some happy customers (not BETA TESTERS) who would be happily using your product.
Instead you have a few hundred beta testers. Clappity clap clap.
Wake me when you ship. Until then, stop answering people like me and bloody well GET BACK TO WORK.
Ericpeet - maybe have a look at the bullet points in our post, if you like answers more than questions. Or perhaps your point is to frame knowns as unknowns.
Alexonline - people have already received properly working units. Since you don’t have an order, and you say it’s vaporware, it’s curious you still spend time on it.
You people are incredible and ridiculous. I had an order for two years. You banned me because I posted in the RANTS section. You refused to re-instate me. Every few months I come back to see if you lot have launched yet, but all you get is smarmy, condescending, rude remarks from YOU - the Waytools support rep who is only less slightly wordy than DBK.
Listen you sanctimonious people - ship your damn product. It has been FOUR YEARS. You lied to us in the start, you've continued to lie, and you suggest that sending out beta test units to people is "properly working units" as though you'd shipped to customers. That is another blatant lie from you, Waytools.
When, or rather if, you ever ship, chances are very high that I'll place an order - as a technology journalist who has been using tech since 1979, I love all new technologies that look like they are going to change the world. It's why I ORDERED A TEXTBLADE from you! But after four years, and lots of overly wordy nonsense from you, it's no wonder that plenty of us reside in the Reddit forum, having been BANNED BY YOU, and come back every few months to "curiously spend time on it".
If only YOU curiously spent some time on FINISHING YOUR DAMNED PRODUCT, you might have some happy customers (not BETA TESTERS) who would be happily using your product.
Instead you have a few hundred beta testers. Clappity clap clap.
Wake me when you ship. Until then, stop answering people like me and bloody well GET BACK TO WORK.
Another poster criticizing this company years after receiving a refund for a $99 product. I ask again, why? Time to move on with your life and let go of the bitterness, Alex.
Another poster criticizing this company years after receiving a refund for a $99 product. I ask again, why? Time to move on with your life and let go of the bitterness, Alex.
Why, what is it to you? Why would it at all matter what people whose opinion you have written off think?
Why the compulsion to post in response to a post not directed at you?
i guess we are on opposite ends of the spectrum. I read the article and thought it was objective. I ordered one and am now a fan of the company. Some of you may need therapy and seem to have an agenda to hurt the company. This vaporware talk is nonsense. Like the article title says, you'll have to be patient. Try it..
i guess we are on opposite ends of the spectrum. I read the article and thought it was objective. I ordered one and am now a fan of the company. Some of you may need therapy and seem to have an agenda to hurt the company. This vaporware talk is nonsense. Like the article title says, you'll have to be patient. Try it..
You just ordered one, after reading this article? lol You a perfect example of the gaslighting victims I speak of. They got some media hype from AI, and you gave them your money. Who has the money? Mark Knighton. Who has a Textblade? Not you.
You strut in here and start bickering with people who have dealt with these morons for 4 years? Give it a few years, silly rube, then let us know how you feel.
If they get 10 more just like you, then perhaps they can fulfill one more early 2015 order via TREG. Thats typically how a pyramid scheme works.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
Masteroftheobvious said: i guess we are on opposite ends of the spectrum. [etc]
You may be on a spectrum, I however am not. I am neither allied with you nor opposed to you. You to me are a random stranger on the internet.
I read the article and it contains claims which have been made before, years before, and were not true then. I asked for clarification from the author of just one of those points and have had to put up with waves of slurs, lies and propagandising from the company that took your money. They are incapable of arguing any point without resorting to personal attacks as has been shown here in this thread.
That's your choice to order one or not, and if you knew anything about anything you would know that I am not going to advise you cancel your order, nor to add to it. It's your choice, you have read some of what has been written here, and you read a bit of the subreddit and feel informed. Well good for you.
I have no agenda, employer, shadowy manifesto nor ulterior motive. I want my small keyboard, I want the company that lies, to stop lying and lying, and especially I would like them to stop lying about me. They can't even a cancel the correct order when they have a tantrum.
I do not claim that it is vapourware, if you had been paying attention. That is not my drum to beat. I have simply stated that the Textblade is not finished. The logic is inescapable, if there is work to do on the Textblade, which by the company's own admission there is, then pallets of Textblades can not actually be finished.
Waytools can and have attempt to say "oh it's just like an app, the actual thing is done" and then they say "oh that firmware we won't ship our product without, it still doesn't even do as much as the 'finished' firmware we have ditched to go on this 10 month plus refactoring spree and were not comfortable making our general release." It boggles the mind; why lie about something so daft? Why with all the things that are going on, make a claim only to contradict it within a week.
No. while the article may say so, I do not have to patient. I may have to wait but I do not have to be patient.
To summarise dear, it's not about you, it's all about the company that took your money.
Why the compulsion to post in response to a post not directed at you?
I think this has been covered in other, similar, situations. Quick review:
1. Because they are public posts might be a reason anyone in the public may respond.
2. If this is an issue for you, why are you posting a response to a post not directed at you? In fact, you posted two responses!
Now, I don't care if you respond to his post or not, but if you are going to push some kind of standard people should follow, you might try following your own "standard".
It may surprise some people that there are certainly things in the article that can be discussed without constantly claiming everything is a lie, etc. I thought I'd review some:
1. "They also say that money from these orders is not what's funding the company. The founders of WayTools previously started a firm that produces 3D scanning tools including the one used by Lucasfilm to recreate Peter Cushing's face in Rogue One. It's investments from the founders and friends which are funding the development of the TextBlade."
That certainly sounds like money from NextEngine, but taken in whole, it can mean a number of things. For example, is the money coming directly from NextEngine? Or is it coming from the money the founders have made themselves? And then there is that "and friends" - so not just directly related to NextEngine. For that matter, is any money from a company (direct or indirect) only about NextEngine? For all we know, there could be another company. No, not saying there is. Just that the info provided doesn't rule it out. In facc, it never actually says the money is coming from NextEngine, but only specifically refers to founders and friends. What is the source of the money the friends have?
2. "That ability to instantly recall your money is good and the financial backing of the company appears solid as far as we can tell."
We don't know what he based that on. It could be anything from a vague, "The NextEngine founders and some friends have provided the money to support this endeavor. Or it could be he knows some of the actual amounts and who some of these people are (thus maybe some of their financial resources).
3. Sort of an aside, but the article takes up about 14 "pages" in the window I have it in. The first 5 are mostly about the problems, mainly shipping delays. And more deeper into the article. Just wanted to make clear that the article sure isn't whitewashing what has been happening.
4. "we did see pallets of finished TextBlades"
This has been brought up many times, but really, it doesn't tell us much. We know WT has a lot of TB ready to go for new Treg or replacements for old Treg users. This could refer to those. Or to new ones since it isn't clear. Also, even "pallets" doesn't tell us much. Because while WT has posted that there are something like 300 in a box, we don't know how many boxes on each pallet or how many pallets there are.
5. "This is the best keyboard we have ever used. It's unquestionably the best portable keyboard we know, to the extent that none others we've tried feel like they come close. We're still sufficiently slower typing on it than on a full-size desktop keyboard that we don't use it daily with our Macs but we could, we have, and a great many TREG users do."
Pretty strong words, but they fit what others have said, but this time come from a professional writer. So good to hear.
6. "Yet if the smallness is remarkable, you have to assume that it's going to be cramped to type on. However, the two main blades connect at an angle that means typing may not be the same as a regular desktop keyboard, but it's far better than a typical mini one."
I mentioned this when I first got it (the angles). I would have liked it straight across since that was what I was used to - one less thing to adjust to. WT said their studies showed this was best. Of course, I got used to it, but it would still be an interesting discussion to hear from people who prefer straight or those ergonomic styles - especially from those who have used both.
7. "We're told that the shipping version will connect to at least double that many."
I'm sure some won't like that. The old, "don't add anything, just ship". Perfectly understandable, but even if they add more jumps for initial release, there are two things that may mean this change may have no effect on timing of GR.
One would be that the rest of it will take so much time, that some other workers not as busy could just stick this in while the other work is being done.
Another reason could be that it simply isn't a hard thing to do. As a simplistic example, I may have a spreadsheet where, using a for/next loop, I automatically access each of 10 rows for info. So, supposed I want 12 rows of info. Well, I have the space (more rows are unused) and I just have to change the for/next loop to cover 12 instead of 10. I don't know how WT handles all this, but I would suppose each slot has the info in a given area of memory (slot, OS used, layout used, etc). Whether I have 6 or 600, it may make no real difference as long as there is space available.
8. "In the version we have, that switching between devices feels faster than we're used to from other keyboards."
Good to know too. I had only one specific reference to jumping on other keyboards which said they had to wait 30 seconds! But I didn't know if the TB was essentially faster than all or most others.
9. "The Bluetooth details are seemingly just one of very many apparently small issues that have required extensive work."
Since a lot of people focus on the BT issues, seemingly thinking that is the only issue, that comment is important.
10. "We can say that the TextBlade is likely to ship for $120 or $130 and that people who've pre-ordered it will get theirs for the $99 they originally paid."
There has been conjecture, but I think this is the first time anything remotely official has been given on a future price increase.
1. Because they are public posts might be a reason anyone in the public may respond.
Yadda, yadda,public space may respond. No one argued that the space was not public or that they could not, should not or must not respond. I will crack open a drink for the inaugural AI strawman outing. The first of many I fear. In any case this response does not answer why question why they did. You may staple your left leg to a fast moving truck, by why someone might is far more interesting.
2. If this is an issue for you, why are you posting a response to a post not directed at you? In fact, you posted two responses!
And you have just done so also. This is a tu quoque fallacy on behalf of another which is new but I know you are familiar with this definition:
This is another non argument argument he uses regularly. It takes the form of a claim that what he does does not matter as you (or another in the same argument chain) 'do it too'. Whether you do it or not does not invalidate your point that he did it. This is an argument of exceptional bad faith as you may feel the need you refute the assertion that you do it too. Generally he offers no evidence for his claim or is so general (using Appeal to the Masses, or Appeal common sense) that there is not specific case to answer. A simple 'Nope' is sufficient rebuttal in most cases.
the shorthand we used to use was "Nyan-Na" when you did it. No o creator of vast fields of strawmen, your made up issue is not one I feel care enough about to argue.
The strawman. The attacking an exaggerated or caricatured version of your opponent's position. This is a mainstay of [redacted]'s output. Rarely does he approach any argument without first securing a strawma
I believe for those who remember this was a "Shame, shame, shame".
Now, I don't care if you respond to his post or not,
Methinks he doth protest too much...(That's an opinion, i'm allowed those.) also "Honk"claim based on future event:
Making claims based on future events (*'you never','you won't','I predict','you will','you always') He uses this technique in two main ways. the first is to make a sweeping and impressive sounding claim. However because he would have needed to discover time travel to present such a claim as truth, such a claim must be based on assumption. Secondly he will use it as a form of 'well poisoning', which is to say he will preempt a future position you may take up and argue that such a position is based on a scheme, tactic or plan of yours hoping that by associating your future position with his assumptions you will either avoid a position that undermines his points, or at the very least can claim you are following a game plan. This form of arguing is fallacious as he uses knowledge of the flaws in his own argument to predicate and support his 'hypothesis contrary to fact.'
but if you are going to push some kind of standard people should follow,
not just a "honk" but an additional lazy strawman so "Shame, shame, shame". nope. not pushing a standard, you just made that one up.
you might try following your own "standard".
Annnd you quote another poster..."Phew, stinky" a red herring.
The red herring. [redacted] will use irrelevant arguments to divert you attention away from the argument at hand. Often he will couple this with a Tu quoque (see above) attack or a Strawman (see above).
Quoted definitions are from a different time and place. Same DBK though.
I have left you alone, for the most part, but if you want to play, lets play. We know how this always ends...
No one argued that the space was not public or that they could not, should not or must not respond. I will crack open a drink for the inaugural AI strawman outing.
But you made it an issue with this:
> Why the compulsion to post in response to a post not directed at you?
You even labeled it as a "compulsion". Not what someone does if just asking a legitimate question.
And you have just done so also.
Yep, I responded to your post, which wasn't directed to me. But, you see, I'm not the guy questioning someone's "compulsion" to do so. I have absolutely no objection to others responding. I just question why you do something you just made an issue about someone else doing!
The strawman. The attacking an exaggerated or caricatured version of your opponent's position.
So, you didn't question why he did it? Or you didn't call it a "compulsion"?
This has been brought up many times, but really, it doesn't tell us much.
Well it says "we did see pallets of finished TextBlades". How did the author determine those were finished? Did they inspect the contents of a random sample of units and determine they were ready and complete for general release? Did they use the mighty powers of surmise and simply assume shipping boxes neatly stacked was the same as finished product ready to go? Or did they just ask someone what was on the pallet and publish the response? These are of course not the only possibilities, but incontrovertibly the words "pallets", "Textblades," and "finished" appear in a sentence that seems to indicate that the Textblades on those pallets are complete.
We know WT has a lot of TB ready to go for new Treg or replacements for old Treg users.
"phew, stinky" the status of prototype units for test release in not in contention. You may or may not know how many prototypes are ready to go, I would guess that it was roughly equal to the amount of Textblades sitting on pallets readers have been informed are finished.
This could refer to those.
(Speculation, but lets indulge.) In which case the lie is put to the statement immediately, TREG units are not finished, they contain firmware which has been rejected by WT for General release.
Or to new ones since it isn't clear.
(Speculation, but lets indulge.) In which case they would be either carrying old firmware (rejected) the most recent firmware (which is feature incomplete compared even to the rejected firmware, as per WT WTF announcement) or missing firmware altogether ( not fit for purpose). So the any putative 'new ones' would also be unfinished.
Also, even "pallets" doesn't tell us much. Because while WT has posted that there are something like 300 in a box, we don't know how many boxes on each pallet or how many pallets there are.
"phew, stinky" the precise number of finished units is irrelevant.
So what it tells us is the words in the article are contradicted by WT's own announcements regarding their product.
As for the rest in brief
1. These are things we have already been told, or are public record.
2. Author is hedging. I can see why, and do not see a problem here.
3, I assume people who can read 370 comments down a thread can read an article that is considerably shorter.
5. Opinion, I do not see a problem here.
6. Compares a specific feature to a generalism. Uninteresting to me, but it may inform others.
7. I was told I would have my keyboard in my hands in March 2015. So YMMV on what we are 'told'.
8. Would mean more if we had an idea how many switching keyboards that was, and if the claim that it was faster rather than felt faster. So opinion? I do not see a problem here.
9. Being bad at implementing BT is also an explanation.
"REEEEEEEE" Argument by Assertion. This is the constant restatement of an assertion he has made, independent of evidence to support that claim. It is one of the mainstays of his arsenal, and when coupled with his habit of retreating to new threads whenever he loses a point, or becomes aware that the weight of counterargument has refuted his position, it means that you have continually restate you refutation. Copy and paste is your friend.
"Shame, shame, shame"- No one argued that the space was not public or that they could not, should not or must not respond.
You even labeled it as a "compulsion".
Yup, as it's a noun describing the act
compulsion
/kəmˈpʌlʃ(ə)n/
noun
an irresistible urge to behave in a certain way.
Not what someone does if just asking a legitimate question.
"phew, stinky" Legitimacy of the question was not contended. "Brrap"- Mindreading. This is being used to cover every occasion where [redacted] asserts your motives and then argue contrary to them. Also know as a form of appeal to motive, every single time he bases a point on another mental processes, or claims knowledge of what you are thinking as fact, just make the noise to remind him of his argument form assumption. This is especially insidious as the much of his argument rely on him characterising his opponent (using Ad hominem attacks, and appeals to motive) as a bad actor rather than arguing his points.
Yep, I responded to your post, which wasn't directed to me.
I don't care. I was illustrating that you couldn't even form that fallacy without committing it yourself. It shows your delicious hypocrisy.
But, you see, I'm not the guy questioning someone's "compulsion" to do so.
Stating the obvious there really. Asker of question: Me. Person who interrupted to say "you interrupted too" performing a tu quoque: you.
I have absolutely no objection to others responding
I don't care. Also "phew, stinky" your feelings on the matter were not argued.
I just question why you do something you just made an issue about someone else doing!
"REEEEEEEE" Argument by Assertion.
Note argument has now subtly changed as he has lost ground, so his strawman has shifted to me having an issue with the unsolicited response.
"Shame, shame, shame" -No one argued that the space was not public or that they could not, should not or must not respond.
because:
"Waah, waah waaahhh" Argument By Emotive Language. For [redacted] nothing is ever a question or a comment, it is an attack. There are no counterarguments only 'games' or 'Tactics'. No banned users only 'critics'. People who do not share his point of view are 'opponents' and those if people happen to agree they must be 'conspiring'. Someone who asks a question must have an 'issue.' The use of emotive terms is a fallacious piece of argument as it seeks to argue based on feeling rather than facts.
So, you didn't question why he did it?
Yes that was question.I have not argued to contrary postilion, or more specifically the post text in full:
Why, what is it to you? Why would it at all matter what people whose opinion you have written off think? Why the compulsion to post in response to a post not directed at you? And not for the first time...
From which you fabricated:
A
Because they are public posts might be a reason anyone in the public may respond.
B
But you made it an issue with this:
Which are not arguments relating to a position I hold but to the "Shame, shame, shame" strawmen you invented above
Or you didn't call it a "compulsion"?
Yup, synonyms for which are "urge, impulse, need, necessity, desire, longing, motivation, drive" I think you will find that I haven't denied using the word that means the thing I meant to mean, in the sentence that can be read in the thread that we are discussing it in, so:"Shame, shame, shame" strawman.
"Yawn" Argumentum ad Nauseum. Literally arguing to the point of nausea. This is also a [redacted] trope. He can spend weeks arguing a small point without actually coming near to showing proof. This is done in an attempt to 'win' and argument by going on and on until his opponents give up.
You just ordered one, after reading this article? lol You a perfect example of the gaslighting victims I speak of.
Translation: "You don't agree with me so I'm going to ridicule you".
True. When someone has 4 years worth of evidence and thousand of pages of forum posts showing the character of the company to be apathetic, insincere, dishonest, disingenuous, malicious, scheming, passive-aggressive, and active-aggressive, and they throw money at them anyway, then yes: that person deserves to be ridiculed. And scorned. We did everything we could to help you Captain Obvious, and you went ahead and did it anyway. Proof that stupid cannot be fixed.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
When someone has 4 years worth of evidence and thousand of pages of forum posts showing the character of the company to be apathetic, insincere, dishonest, disingenuous, malicious, scheming, passive-aggressive, and active-aggressive, and they throw money at them anyway, then yes: that person deserves to be ridiculed. And scorned. We did everything we could to help you Captain Obvious, and you went ahead and did it anyway. Proof that stupid cannot be fixed.
Wow. Just, wow.
Especially coming from a person who says people shouldn't buy, treats someone who does with ridicule and scorn, yet keeps their own order!
Truly stunning. Also revealing so, for that part, thanks.
Say something ridiculous, expect some level of ridicule is not the same as making a choice that was advised against being tantamount to a declaration of open season.
MotO can spend their money how they please. If you find them naive for doing so that is your opinion not an incontrovertible fact. I disagree with MotO on how to interpret four years of output and response regarding the Textblade and that's ok. I disagree with DBK on a great many things and that is also ok.
Waytools might benefit from realising that the criticism they receive is not monolithic but comprised of many differing experiences and points of view.
TBD this is your hill, address it how you please, but shouting @#$! at people is rarely persuasive. You never know, MotO may have evaluated all those negative experiences you list and still stuck the money down "because look, small keyboard". How many, for example, of those displaced from WTF are still holding orders out of sheer bloodymindedness?
People are frustrated and frustrated people lash out. Sometimes frustration with one bleeds into our interactions with another. I know that MotO does not have a TextBlade to send me nor have I paid him any money for one. One must assume his views are his own, we can leave paranoid fantasies of bad faith actors to the company who took your money. If MotO has an experience with WT in the future then he may be in the next thread sharing that experience. Who can tell what that may be like?
If Captain Obvious aka MotO is not stupid, perhaps he is a masochist? Anyone placing an order with Waytools now is starting the journey with eyes wide open. You are destined for a long and winding road that never leads to a Textblade. I guess some people like feeling used and disappointed.
A rational person does not pay money for a product when a mountain of evidence indicates they will never receive it. When you know that 10,000+ people came before you and paid a combined total of $1,000,000.00+ dollars over 4 years ago, and none of those people ever received anything, what would possess you to throw your good money after bad?
Waytools used Appleinsider to run a gaslighting campaign. Some people are susceptible to such tactics. Its a shame how gullible some people are, no matter how blatant the con.
If Captain Obvious aka MotO is not stupid, perhaps he is a masochist? Anyone placing an order with Waytools now is starting the journey with eyes wide open. You are destined for a long and winding road that never leads to a Textblade. I guess some people like feeling used and disappointed.
Still resorting to ridicule and scorn just because someone doesn't disagree with you, I see.
Let me try an adjustment to your statement:
> Anyone who placed an order with WayTools years ago and still lets WayTools keep their money is on a journey now with eyes wide open. You are destined for a long and winding road that never leads to a Textblade. I guess some people like feeling used and disappointed.
Of course, I don't agree with your premise so that paraphrase is based on your assumptions only. Once again, you want to do something (keep your order) while ridiculing someone else who wants an order. Consistency isn't your best thing.
Once again, you want to do something (keep your order) while ridiculing someone else who wants an order. Consistency isn't your best thing.
Of course Kahuna ignores the difference between myself and Captain Obvious. I purchased when the product was just announced and 'ready to ship' over 4 years ago. I then maintained my order while the company lied to me and told me each week or month that there was just a small delay but shipping was otherwise imminent. When I contemplated bailing out, like everyone else, the company gaslighted me - offering me a 'free gift' for participating early, and constantly assuring me that shipping was 'just around the corner'. After investing so much of my time waiting, as a result of these lies and misdirections, I prefer to invest my time now disparaging, ridiculing, and criticizing this pack of liars whenever they receive publicity, while cautioning others about their behavior. We could not help Captain Obvious, but I am sure many others have been given the information necessary to avoid this debacle of a pyramid scheme run by a liar named Mark Knighton.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
> Anyone who placed an order with WayTools years ago and still lets WayTools keep their money is on a journey now with eyes wide open. You are destined for a long and winding road that never leads to a Textblade. I guess some people like feeling used and disappointed.
There goes your subconscious again, struggling to send secret signals that there is still an ethical and honest Kahuna hidden beneath the absurd, lying shill we all see displayed on a daily basis...
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
Comments
Listen you sanctimonious people - ship your damn product. It has been FOUR YEARS. You lied to us in the start, you've continued to lie, and you suggest that sending out beta test units to people is "properly working units" as though you'd shipped to customers. That is another blatant lie from you, Waytools.
When, or rather if, you ever ship, chances are very high that I'll place an order - as a technology journalist who has been using tech since 1979, I love all new technologies that look like they are going to change the world. It's why I ORDERED A TEXTBLADE from you! But after four years, and lots of overly wordy nonsense from you, it's no wonder that plenty of us reside in the Reddit forum, having been BANNED BY YOU, and come back every few months to "curiously spend time on it".
If only YOU curiously spent some time on FINISHING YOUR DAMNED PRODUCT, you might have some happy customers (not BETA TESTERS) who would be happily using your product.
Wake me when you ship. Until then, stop answering people like me and bloody well GET BACK TO WORK.
Another poster criticizing this company years after receiving a refund for a $99 product. I ask again, why? Time to move on with your life and let go of the bitterness, Alex.
Why the compulsion to post in response to a post not directed at you?
R
You just ordered one, after reading this article? lol You a perfect example of the gaslighting victims I speak of. They got some media hype from AI, and you gave them your money. Who has the money? Mark Knighton. Who has a Textblade? Not you.
You strut in here and start bickering with people who have dealt with these morons for 4 years? Give it a few years, silly rube, then let us know how you feel.
If they get 10 more just like you, then perhaps they can fulfill one more early 2015 order via TREG. Thats typically how a pyramid scheme works.
You may be on a spectrum, I however am not. I am neither allied with you nor opposed to you. You to me are a random stranger on the internet.
I read the article and it contains claims which have been made before, years before, and were not true then. I asked for clarification from the author of just one of those points and have had to put up with waves of slurs, lies and propagandising from the company that took your money. They are incapable of arguing any point without resorting to personal attacks as has been shown here in this thread.
That's your choice to order one or not, and if you knew anything about anything you would know that I am not going to advise you cancel your order, nor to add to it. It's your choice, you have read some of what has been written here, and you read a bit of the subreddit and feel informed. Well good for you.
I have no agenda, employer, shadowy manifesto nor ulterior motive. I want my small keyboard, I want the company that lies, to stop lying and lying, and especially I would like them to stop lying about me. They can't even a cancel the correct order when they have a tantrum.
I do not claim that it is vapourware, if you had been paying attention. That is not my drum to beat. I have simply stated that the Textblade is not finished. The logic is inescapable, if there is work to do on the Textblade, which by the company's own admission there is, then pallets of Textblades can not actually be finished.
Waytools can and have attempt to say "oh it's just like an app, the actual thing is done" and then they say "oh that firmware we won't ship our product without, it still doesn't even do as much as the 'finished' firmware we have ditched to go on this 10 month plus refactoring spree and were not comfortable making our general release." It boggles the mind; why lie about something so daft? Why with all the things that are going on, make a claim only to contradict it within a week.
No. while the article may say so, I do not have to patient. I may have to wait but I do not have to be patient.
To summarise dear, it's not about you, it's all about the company that took your money.
R
Rolanbek said: I think this has been covered in other, similar, situations. Quick review:
1. Because they are public posts might be a reason anyone in the public may respond.
2. If this is an issue for you, why are you posting a response to a post not directed at you? In fact, you posted two responses!
Translation: "You don't agree with me so I'm going to ridicule you".
2. "That ability to instantly recall your money is good and the financial backing of the company appears solid as far as we can tell."
3. Sort of an aside, but the article takes up about 14 "pages" in the window I have it in. The first 5 are mostly about the problems, mainly shipping delays. And more deeper into the article. Just wanted to make clear that the article sure isn't whitewashing what has been happening.
4. "we did see pallets of finished TextBlades"
5. "This is the best keyboard we have ever used. It's unquestionably the best portable keyboard we know, to the extent that none others we've tried feel like they come close. We're still sufficiently slower typing on it than on a full-size desktop keyboard that we don't use it daily with our Macs but we could, we have, and a great many TREG users do."
6. "Yet if the smallness is remarkable, you have to assume that it's going to be cramped to type on. However, the two main blades connect at an angle that means typing may not be the same as a regular desktop keyboard, but it's far better than a typical mini one."
Another reason could be that it simply isn't a hard thing to do. As a simplistic example, I may have a spreadsheet where, using a for/next loop, I automatically access each of 10 rows for info. So, supposed I want 12 rows of info. Well, I have the space (more rows are unused) and I just have to change the for/next loop to cover 12 instead of 10. I don't know how WT handles all this, but I would suppose each slot has the info in a given area of memory (slot, OS used, layout used, etc). Whether I have 6 or 600, it may make no real difference as long as there is space available.
8. "In the version we have, that switching between devices feels faster than we're used to from other keyboards."
Good to know too. I had only one specific reference to jumping on other keyboards which said they had to wait 30 seconds! But I didn't know if the TB was essentially faster than all or most others.
9. "The Bluetooth details are seemingly just one of very many apparently small issues that have required extensive work."
Since a lot of people focus on the BT issues, seemingly thinking that is the only issue, that comment is important.
10. "We can say that the TextBlade is likely to ship for $120 or $130 and that people who've pre-ordered it will get theirs for the $99 they originally paid."
Yadda, yadda,public space may respond. No one argued that the space was not public or that they could not, should not or must not respond. I will crack open a drink for the inaugural AI strawman outing. The first of many I fear. In any case this response does not answer why question why they did. You may staple your left leg to a fast moving truck, by why someone might is far more interesting.
And you have just done so also. This is a tu quoque fallacy on behalf of another which is new but I know you are familiar with this definition:
the shorthand we used to use was "Nyan-Na" when you did it. No o creator of vast fields of strawmen, your made up issue is not one I feel care enough about to argue.
I believe for those who remember this was a "Shame, shame, shame".
Methinks he doth protest too much...(That's an opinion, i'm allowed those.) also "Honk" claim based on future event:
not just a "honk" but an additional lazy strawman so "Shame, shame, shame". nope. not pushing a standard, you just made that one up.
Annnd you quote another poster..."Phew, stinky" a red herring.
Quoted definitions are from a different time and place. Same DBK though.
I have left you alone, for the most part, but if you want to play, lets play. We know how this always ends...
R
> Why the compulsion to post in response to a post not directed at you?
You even labeled it as a "compulsion". Not what someone does if just asking a legitimate question.
Yep, I responded to your post, which wasn't directed to me. But, you see, I'm not the guy questioning someone's "compulsion" to do so. I have absolutely no objection to others responding. I just question why you do something you just made an issue about someone else doing!
"phew, stinky" the status of prototype units for test release in not in contention. You may or may not know how many prototypes are ready to go, I would guess that it was roughly equal to the amount of Textblades sitting on pallets readers have been informed are finished.
(Speculation, but lets indulge.) In which case the lie is put to the statement immediately, TREG units are not finished, they contain firmware which has been rejected by WT for General release.
(Speculation, but lets indulge.) In which case they would be either carrying old firmware (rejected) the most recent firmware (which is feature incomplete compared even to the rejected firmware, as per WT WTF announcement) or missing firmware altogether ( not fit for purpose). So the any putative 'new ones' would also be unfinished.
"phew, stinky" the precise number of finished units is irrelevant.
So what it tells us is the words in the article are contradicted by WT's own announcements regarding their product.
As for the rest in brief
1. These are things we have already been told, or are public record.
2. Author is hedging. I can see why, and do not see a problem here.
3, I assume people who can read 370 comments down a thread can read an article that is considerably shorter.
5. Opinion, I do not see a problem here.
6. Compares a specific feature to a generalism. Uninteresting to me, but it may inform others.
7. I was told I would have my keyboard in my hands in March 2015. So YMMV on what we are 'told'.
8. Would mean more if we had an idea how many switching keyboards that was, and if the claim that it was faster rather than felt faster. So opinion? I do not see a problem here.
9. Being bad at implementing BT is also an explanation.
10. Ok. then.
R
"Shame, shame, shame" - No one argued that the space was not public or that they could not, should not or must not respond.
Yup, as it's a noun describing the act
"phew, stinky" Legitimacy of the question was not contended.
"Brrap"- Mindreading. This is being used to cover every occasion where [redacted] asserts your motives and then argue contrary to them. Also know as a form of appeal to motive, every single time he bases a point on another mental processes, or claims knowledge of what you are thinking as fact, just make the noise to remind him of his argument form assumption. This is especially insidious as the much of his argument rely on him characterising his opponent (using Ad hominem attacks, and appeals to motive) as a bad actor rather than arguing his points.
I don't care. I was illustrating that you couldn't even form that fallacy without committing it yourself. It shows your delicious hypocrisy.
Stating the obvious there really. Asker of question: Me. Person who interrupted to say "you interrupted too" performing a tu quoque: you.
I don't care. Also "phew, stinky" your feelings on the matter were not argued.
"REEEEEEEE" Argument by Assertion.
Note argument has now subtly changed as he has lost ground, so his strawman has shifted to me having an issue with the unsolicited response.
"Shame, shame, shame" -No one argued that the space was not public or that they could not, should not or must not respond.
because:
"Waah, waah waaahhh" Argument By Emotive Language. For [redacted] nothing is ever a question or a comment, it is an attack. There are no counterarguments only 'games' or 'Tactics'. No banned users only 'critics'. People who do not share his point of view are 'opponents' and those if people happen to agree they must be 'conspiring'. Someone who asks a question must have an 'issue.' The use of emotive terms is a fallacious piece of argument as it seeks to argue based on feeling rather than facts.
Yes that was question.I have not argued to contrary postilion, or more specifically the post text in full:
From which you fabricated:
A
B
Which are not arguments relating to a position I hold but to the "Shame, shame, shame" strawmen you invented above
Yup, synonyms for which are "urge, impulse, need, necessity, desire, longing, motivation, drive" I think you will find that I haven't denied using the word that means the thing I meant to mean, in the sentence that can be read in the thread that we are discussing it in, so:"Shame, shame, shame" strawman.
"Yawn" Argumentum ad Nauseum. Literally arguing to the point of nausea. This is also a [redacted] trope. He can spend weeks arguing a small point without actually coming near to showing proof. This is done in an attempt to 'win' and argument by going on and on until his opponents give up.
R
True. When someone has 4 years worth of evidence and thousand of pages of forum posts showing the character of the company to be apathetic, insincere, dishonest, disingenuous, malicious, scheming, passive-aggressive, and active-aggressive, and they throw money at them anyway, then yes: that person deserves to be ridiculed. And scorned. We did everything we could to help you Captain Obvious, and you went ahead and did it anyway. Proof that stupid cannot be fixed.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
Especially coming from a person who says people shouldn't buy, treats someone who does with ridicule and scorn, yet keeps their own order!
MotO can spend their money how they please. If you find them naive for doing so that is your opinion not an incontrovertible fact. I disagree with MotO on how to interpret four years of output and response regarding the Textblade and that's ok. I disagree with DBK on a great many things and that is also ok.
Waytools might benefit from realising that the criticism they receive is not monolithic but comprised of many differing experiences and points of view.
TBD this is your hill, address it how you please, but shouting @#$! at people is rarely persuasive. You never know, MotO may have evaluated all those negative experiences you list and still stuck the money down "because look, small keyboard". How many, for example, of those displaced from WTF are still holding orders out of sheer bloodymindedness?
People are frustrated and frustrated people lash out. Sometimes frustration with one bleeds into our interactions with another. I know that MotO does not have a TextBlade to send me nor have I paid him any money for one. One must assume his views are his own, we can leave paranoid fantasies of bad faith actors to the company who took your money. If MotO has an experience with WT in the future then he may be in the next thread sharing that experience. Who can tell what that may be like?
As you were, my popcorn is ready.
R
A rational person does not pay money for a product when a mountain of evidence indicates they will never receive it. When you know that 10,000+ people came before you and paid a combined total of $1,000,000.00+ dollars over 4 years ago, and none of those people ever received anything, what would possess you to throw your good money after bad?
Waytools used Appleinsider to run a gaslighting campaign. Some people are susceptible to such tactics. Its a shame how gullible some people are, no matter how blatant the con.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_trick
Would you gamble at a casino that advertises a payout rate of 0.00000% ? If you are MotO, the answer to that would appear to be affirmative.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
> Anyone who placed an order with WayTools years ago and still lets WayTools keep their money is on a journey now with eyes wide open. You are destined for a long and winding road that never leads to a Textblade. I guess some people like feeling used and disappointed.
Of course, I don't agree with your premise so that paraphrase is based on your assumptions only. Once again, you want to do something (keep your order) while ridiculing someone else who wants an order. Consistency isn't your best thing.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.