I want one USB-A port instead of the fourth TB port.
i suspect that is unlikely..
Yeah, replacing modern ports with old, slow ports are what makes a real Pro computer.
Do you think that the latest Mac Pro is not "real Pro computer" because it has USB-A ports?
No. What kind of question is that? You're talking about a basic I/O PCIe board which is an option to buy (as far as we know) on a giant machine where you're not removing built-in 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 port and replacing it with a shitty 5Gbps USB-A port, which are two completely different things.
No need to replace any of the TB3 ports. There's plenty of room in that chassis for the TB3 ports and a USBA port. And an HDMI. And an SD card slot.
What I don't get about apologists for the MacBook Pro's stupid port offering is: how is adding more ports a bad thing? Would anyone possibly be actively put off buying a MacBook Pro if it had four TB3 + USBA + HDMI + SD Card?
I was in a meeting yesterday with my MacBook Pro and someone asked if I could project a PowerPoint that had just been emailed to the group. Now when I know that I am giving a presentation I always make sure to lug along Apple’s humongous USB-C to HDMI adapter. But this was impromptu and so the answer was, no, my ridiculously expensive “pro” laptop could not connect to the industry standard HDMI cable on the table. And before someone says we should have an Apple TV or some USB-C adapter built-into the setup, keep in mind that this is a big corporation with dozens of conference rooms and an IT department that acts like it is the early 2000’s. I can barely get my Macs on the network.
Guess you won't make that mistake again.
LOL, the hyperbole — "lug" "humongous" — it's like what, a couple grams? You know there are much smaller ones, right? Throw this on your keychain and never get caught off guard again. It's $12 and tiny:
You guys sure aren't very good at preparing for your jobs.
Not sure why you think it is necessary to throw shade at another poster. But you can at least try to get the point of the post which is that I shouldn't have to carry around a bunch of adapters on what is ostensibly a pro laptop. Long time Mac users will remember there was a time when the pro moniker meant it came with all of the additional ports that pro users need. And if you are just going to be a jerk please don't respond. Thank you.
You're correct, which is why USB-C is a welcome change fro, the USB-IF.
A surprisingly disingenuous post from someone such as yourself. Most of those are device-end ports, rather than host-end. I am absolutely 100% for device manufacturers to move to a USB-C connector; let's do away with all these different device-end port shapes! But for the host end, there's just two possibilities: USB-C and USB-A, and I think Apple should have both in all their machines.
And those device-end ports are a non-issue with USB-C for multiple reasons. In the interim you can have cables with different USB ends just like before USB-C was introduced, and as we move further ahead we'll have USB-C on both ends with interchangeable cables (and ports) for an ever growing number of devices.
I love being able to plug in my MBP from either side as my location dictates. I love that my MBP USB-C cable detaches from the PSU. I love being able to bring one cable that will work for an iPad, a Nintendo Switch, and hopefully an iPhone.
USB-C is moving faster than USB-A moved because we have countless Android-based devices adopting USB-C. That's a worldwide momentum for the port interface that we never saw with USB-A after Apple adopted it. We're probably getting close to the end of CE developed when some older USB port interface type was the de facto standard. Even now you can by an automobiles that support USB-C. The only thing I haven't yet seen is USB-C in an automobile that will allow for a MBP (either 13" or 15") to be powered by the USB-C port.
We can argue all day as to when was the best time for Apple to have made the switch to a new port interface standard or when they should go all in, but that's old news that happened years ago. They felt it was the right time and they did it. We can choose to keep an old Mac notebook or move to a different vendor, but it's done. What I find disingenuous are people thinking that USB-C is a roadblock when it does nothing but allow for unprecedented power, speed, and protocols over a single interface.
You don't need to convince me that USB-C is a good idea - it obviously is. However, I do dispute that the transition away from USB-A as a host port is happening faster than the transition away from multiple legacy ports to USB 1 all those years ago. Yes, Android devices are adopting USB-C as a device port and that's great, but Android devices are not the only devices! There are so many rechargeable thingummybobs that ship with a recharge cable with a USB-A connector, and as previously mentioned, USB-A has become ubiquitous as a 5V DC supply standard connector in permanent installations such as mains power sockets and in cafes and airports etc., in places where the likelihood of them being replaced by USB-C anytime soon is vanishingly small. As such, countless device manufacturers will continue to ship things with recharge cables with USB-A plugs for years and years to come. And most people will continue to use memory sticks with USB-A plugs.
And, Apple has in fact not gone "all in" with USB-C; they still ship iPhones with USB-A to lightning cables; they still use lightning in iPads (non Pro) and iPhone and iPod Touch; they have USB-A ports on all their desktop machines.
Trying to force a 100% migration away from USB-A host ports with their portable machines was a user-hostile move. Say what you like about the versatility of USB-C and the tiny-ness of adaptors, the fact remains that if someone hands you a thing with a USB-A connector, the easiest and most hassle-free way of connecting it to your machine is if your machine has a USB-A port built-in!
Yes, I did mean to state that they went all in with their notebooks. I personally wish they did so with their iDevices, too, but the fact that they didn't tells me that iPhones are most likely to be plugged into WinPC host devices. I think iPhone users are a lot more likely to jump or not update than Mac users. I also wish the PSU wasn't included with any iDevice, but that's for another discussion about E-Waste.
I also agree that was hostile, but it's also done with and I also don't think it was any more hostile than their move to USB 1.0. Without knowing any of their internal reasons for the push I would've wanted a USB-C and USB-A port on each side of the MBP. I also didn't care for the 12" MacBook only coming out with a single USB-C port. I even mention my issue with that back in 2015(?). I thought Google did it right with with the Pixelbook with a USB-C port on each side that came out at the same time.
I want one USB-A port instead of the fourth TB port.
i suspect that is unlikely..
Yeah, replacing modern ports with old, slow ports are what makes a real Pro computer.
Do you think that the latest Mac Pro is not "real Pro computer" because it has USB-A ports?
No. What kind of question is that? You're talking about a basic I/O PCIe board which is an option to buy (as far as we know) on a giant machine where you're not removing built-in 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 port and replacing it with a shitty 5Gbps USB-A port, which are two completely different things.
Devices as the Lenovo P1 have two USB-C ports, two USB-A ports, HDMI and even a SD card reader in a chassis similar and lighter to the Macbook Pro 15". IMO, there was no need to remove USB-A in the latest Macbook to make it a "real Pro computer".
Well Lenovo laptops are pieces of shit too so there you go! And are not going to convince me otherwise on that. I don't know why people want to compare such a laptop to a MacBook Pro.
You can agree or disagree with Apple's decision to remove USB-A ports (or any other port) from their notebook lineup but you can all but guarantee it ain't coming back. Honestly, the MacBook Pro is the most versatile laptop Apple has ever produced. You don't need an array of legacy ports to make it a "Pro" computer. The USB-C ports can be adapted to just about anything you could possibly ever want while also charging from any port, keeping the footprint of the device down, making it as Apple intended with its thinness, etc.
Well if you look at the ThinkPad Carbon X1 with legacy ports, 64GB of RAM, great keyboard and build (it's a ThinkPad) and the form factor of a MBP 15 the statement is current... that you can't/refuse to accept facts or logic demonstrates religious blindness as opposed to a rational, fact based argument.
Oh, and I don't know how many times I've been embarrassed by connecting my MPB with the 3 different USB-C->HDMI dongles (including Apples) and not being able to connect to a client HDMI monitor... only to USB stick it to someone to plug in their "shit" Lenovo/Dell/HP in order to show it.
Well that's your own fault...there are alternatives.
People talk about USB-C on this forum like they're people dealing with snacks in informercials.
danvm said: That transition you mentioned with Apple desktops didn't happen with notebook users. Don't you think that notebook users would benefit of having a smooth transition to modern USB-C devices, as you can do with desktop devices? Something as simple as a single USB-A port would have made a huge difference for a lot users. [...] As you said, a dongle or adapter would solve many of the issues. But if Apple had included at least one USB-A port, it would have made a lot customers happy. And considering other devices had it, I see no reason for Apple doing the same.
Like I said already, name one reason it would make a "huge difference for a lot of users". I don't believe you. There's literally no good reason to use USB-A on a regular basis anymore.
You already gave a reason, when you mentioned that Apple desktops allow a transition from USB-A to USB-C. IMO, that's an excellent reason.
Now, can you give a reason on why Apple should not include a USB-A port, considering devices with similar size and weight have it?
That’s not what I said. I said desktops have ample room to continue including some for the reasons I specified at minimum, which is their peripherals ship with USB-A cables. I expect all of this to change sooner than later.
The reason they shouldn’t include it is there’s no clear need for it and there’s very little unused space in the chassis despite the thicker Lenovo has it and a bunch of other stuff in it. Apple made a call and I believe it’s the correct one.
I want one USB-A port instead of the fourth TB port.
i suspect that is unlikely..
Yeah, replacing modern ports with old, slow ports are what makes a real Pro computer.
Do you think that the latest Mac Pro is not "real Pro computer" because it has USB-A ports?
No. What kind of question is that? You're talking about a basic I/O PCIe board which is an option to buy (as far as we know) on a giant machine where you're not removing built-in 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 port and replacing it with a shitty 5Gbps USB-A port, which are two completely different things.
Devices as the Lenovo P1 have two USB-C ports, two USB-A ports, HDMI and even a SD card reader in a chassis similar and lighter to the Macbook Pro 15". IMO, there was no need to remove USB-A in the latest Macbook to make it a "real Pro computer".
Well Lenovo laptops are pieces of shit too so there you go! And are not going to convince me otherwise on that. I don't know why people want to compare such a laptop to a MacBook Pro.
You can agree or disagree with Apple's decision to remove USB-A ports (or any other port) from their notebook lineup but you can all but guarantee it ain't coming back. Honestly, the MacBook Pro is the most versatile laptop Apple has ever produced. You don't need an array of legacy ports to make it a "Pro" computer. The USB-C ports can be adapted to just about anything you could possibly ever want while also charging from any port, keeping the footprint of the device down, making it as Apple intended with its thinness, etc.
Well if you look at the ThinkPad Carbon X1 with legacy ports, 64GB of RAM, great keyboard and build (it's a ThinkPad) and the form factor of a MBP 15 the statement is current... that you can't/refuse to accept facts or logic demonstrates religious blindness as opposed to a rational, fact based argument.
Oh, and I don't know how many times I've been embarrassed by connecting my MPB with the 3 different USB-C->HDMI dongles (including Apples) and not being able to connect to a client HDMI monitor... only to USB stick it to someone to plug in their "shit" Lenovo/Dell/HP in order to show it.
Well that's your own fault...there are alternatives.
Apologism at its finest. Can Apple really do no wrong in your eyes? He says he has three different USB-C to HDMI converters, including Apple's own, and none of them work. And that's somehow his fault? No - the blame in this situation is clearly on Apple.
If the adapter is defective, it should be returned. If it’s not the adapter, they should fix their Mac.
My partner upgraded to a 2018 Air in the fall and needed an adapter for presentations, so we ordered the Apple one as we were in a hurry and comparison shopping wasn’t an option. It’s worked flawlessly since day one and she’s a total technophobe.
There’s no shortage of shoddy adapters on Amazon etc, I went through a one or two miniDP adapters before finding a brand that worked well, which didn’t take long to figure out. That’s the luck of the draw with buying peripherals on a site full of fake reviews. ¯\(°_o)/¯
I want one USB-A port instead of the fourth TB port.
i suspect that is unlikely..
Yeah, replacing modern ports with old, slow ports are what makes a real Pro computer.
Do you think that the latest Mac Pro is not "real Pro computer" because it has USB-A ports?
No. What kind of question is that? You're talking about a basic I/O PCIe board which is an option to buy (as far as we know) on a giant machine where you're not removing built-in 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 port and replacing it with a shitty 5Gbps USB-A port, which are two completely different things.
Devices as the Lenovo P1 have two USB-C ports, two USB-A ports, HDMI and even a SD card reader in a chassis similar and lighter to the Macbook Pro 15". IMO, there was no need to remove USB-A in the latest Macbook to make it a "real Pro computer".
Well Lenovo laptops are pieces of shit too so there you go! And are not going to convince me otherwise on that. I don't know why people want to compare such a laptop to a MacBook Pro.
You can agree or disagree with Apple's decision to remove USB-A ports (or any other port) from their notebook lineup but you can all but guarantee it ain't coming back. Honestly, the MacBook Pro is the most versatile laptop Apple has ever produced. You don't need an array of legacy ports to make it a "Pro" computer. The USB-C ports can be adapted to just about anything you could possibly ever want while also charging from any port, keeping the footprint of the device down, making it as Apple intended with its thinness, etc.
Well if you look at the ThinkPad Carbon X1 with legacy ports, 64GB of RAM, great keyboard and build (it's a ThinkPad) and the form factor of a MBP 15 the statement is current... that you can't/refuse to accept facts or logic demonstrates religious blindness as opposed to a rational, fact based argument.
Oh, and I don't know how many times I've been embarrassed by connecting my MPB with the 3 different USB-C->HDMI dongles (including Apples) and not being able to connect to a client HDMI monitor... only to USB stick it to someone to plug in their "shit" Lenovo/Dell/HP in order to show it.
Well that's your own fault...there are alternatives.
Apologism at its finest. Can Apple really do no wrong in your eyes? He says he has three different USB-C to HDMI converters, including Apple's own, and none of them work. And that's somehow his fault? No - the blame in this situation is clearly on Apple.
Indeed... Apple MacBook, Apple Dongle, doesn't work... it's my fault... okay try the Anker USB-C dongle, doesn't work... it's my fault... try the Hyper dongle, doesn't work... my fault. Even both my OWC $300 usb-c and thunderbolt 3 docks (which i don't bring to clients) go wonky... my fault... and if I bought every single dongle/dock made and it still didn't work... then can I blame Apple?
Proof that religious zealotry makes one lose any logic or sense. I'm sure Tim Cook could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and he'd still be a perfect CEO that can do no wrong to many Apple fanboys.
Seriously, there’s something wrong with your Mac and you should get it repaired. There’s no reason all of those things should be failing unless your port/logic board is defective. It happens.
I want one USB-A port instead of the fourth TB port.
i suspect that is unlikely..
Yeah, replacing modern ports with old, slow ports are what makes a real Pro computer.
Do you think that the latest Mac Pro is not "real Pro computer" because it has USB-A ports?
No. What kind of question is that? You're talking about a basic I/O PCIe board which is an option to buy (as far as we know) on a giant machine where you're not removing built-in 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 port and replacing it with a shitty 5Gbps USB-A port, which are two completely different things.
No need to replace any of the TB3 ports. There's plenty of room in that chassis for the TB3 ports and a USBA port. And an HDMI. And an SD card slot.
What I don't get about apologists for the MacBook Pro's stupid port offering is: how is adding more ports a bad thing? Would anyone possibly be actively put off buying a MacBook Pro if it had four TB3 + USBA + HDMI + SD Card?
I was in a meeting yesterday with my MacBook Pro and someone asked if I could project a PowerPoint that had just been emailed to the group. Now when I know that I am giving a presentation I always make sure to lug along Apple’s humongous USB-C to HDMI adapter. But this was impromptu and so the answer was, no, my ridiculously expensive “pro” laptop could not connect to the industry standard HDMI cable on the table. And before someone says we should have an Apple TV or some USB-C adapter built-into the setup, keep in mind that this is a big corporation with dozens of conference rooms and an IT department that acts like it is the early 2000’s. I can barely get my Macs on the network.
Guess you won't make that mistake again.
LOL, the hyperbole — "lug" "humongous" — it's like what, a couple grams? You know there are much smaller ones, right? Throw this on your keychain and never get caught off guard again. It's $12 and tiny:
You guys sure aren't very good at preparing for your jobs.
Not sure why you think it is necessary to throw shade at another poster. But you can at least try to get the point of the post which is that I shouldn't have to carry around a bunch of adapters on what is ostensibly a pro laptop. Long time Mac users will remember there was a time when the pro moniker meant it came with all of the additional ports that pro users need. And if you are just going to be a jerk please don't respond. Thank you.
The “additional ports that pro users need” is not defined. Only a small minority of users need HDMI. I used myself (a pro user) as an example earlier — I could use miniDP ports as that’s what I “lost” when upgrading, but I would never assume all other users should be saddled with them for that reason. I’ve literally never needed HDMI.
MY point is that this problem is very easily solved, at which point it becomes a non issue. Anyone who chooses to continue to repeat the ridiculous hyperbole about something that is not going to change when they could easily just fix the issue in seconds is not good at problem solving. No amount of complaining is going to change reality. So why not call people out for it? It’s a discussion on the internet, and it’s not personal. I suggest growing thicker skin.
There are so many rechargeable thingummybobs that ship with a recharge cable with a USB-A connector, and as previously mentioned, USB-A has become ubiquitous as a 5V DC supply standard connector in permanent installations such as mains power sockets and in cafes and airports etc., in places where the likelihood of them being replaced by USB-C anytime soon is vanishingly small.
So in what situation would you ever plug a MacBook into a USB-A charging port? I’ll wait.
There are so many rechargeable thingummybobs that ship with a recharge cable with a USB-A connector, and as previously mentioned, USB-A has become ubiquitous as a 5V DC supply standard connector in permanent installations such as mains power sockets and in cafes and airports etc., in places where the likelihood of them being replaced by USB-C anytime soon is vanishingly small.
So in what situation would you ever plug a MacBook into a USB-A charging port? I’ll wait.
You wouldn't, and it's irrelevant.
The point is that loads of things ship with USB-A plugs, due to the ubiquity of the USB-A port as a power delivery mechanism (it's become the standard for 5 V DC power delivery), and I think it's exceptionally unlikely that this will change any time soon.
If you want to plug such a thing into your MBP, you can't. Yes, you can with a dongle or adaptor, but as I said before: Say what you like about the versatility of USB-C and the tiny-ness of adaptors, the fact remains that if someone hands you a thing with a USB-A connector, the easiest and most hassle-free way of connecting it to your machine is if your machine has a USB-A port built-in!
There are so many rechargeable thingummybobs that ship with a recharge cable with a USB-A connector, and as previously mentioned, USB-A has become ubiquitous as a 5V DC supply standard connector in permanent installations such as mains power sockets and in cafes and airports etc., in places where the likelihood of them being replaced by USB-C anytime soon is vanishingly small.
So in what situation would you ever plug a MacBook into a USB-A charging port? I’ll wait.
You wouldn't, and it's irrelevant.
The point is that loads of things ship with USB-A plugs, due to the ubiquity of the USB-A port as a power delivery mechanism (it's become the standard for 5 V DC power delivery), and I think it's exceptionally unlikely that this will change any time soon.
If you want to plug such a thing into your MBP, you can't. Yes, you can with a dongle or adaptor, but as I said before: Say what you like about the versatility of USB-C and the tiny-ness of adaptors, the fact remains that if someone hands you a thing with a USB-A connector, the easiest and most hassle-free way of connecting it to your machine is if your machine has a USB-A port built-in!
I guess if you're in the habit of using your MacBook Pro as a portable charging station for your junk, or you routinely get handed things with USB-A to plug in, then sure. Most people don't, and for the odd times I need to do just that, I have a $3 keychain adapter on me at all times which literally adds about 5 seconds to the process. I certainly don't want a larger chassis on my MBP just to accommodate a USB-A port for these random occasions though, and I don't think it's fair to want to saddle legacy ports on shit because people might be able to use them once in a while.
The bigger point being, again, these ports are NOT coming back, and good riddance. With any luck devices that use it at all will be disappearing more rapidly over time, as with all things have in the past.
danvm said: That transition you mentioned with Apple desktops didn't happen with notebook users. Don't you think that notebook users would benefit of having a smooth transition to modern USB-C devices, as you can do with desktop devices? Something as simple as a single USB-A port would have made a huge difference for a lot users. [...] As you said, a dongle or adapter would solve many of the issues. But if Apple had included at least one USB-A port, it would have made a lot customers happy. And considering other devices had it, I see no reason for Apple doing the same.
Like I said already, name one reason it would make a "huge difference for a lot of users". I don't believe you. There's literally no good reason to use USB-A on a regular basis anymore.
You already gave a reason, when you mentioned that Apple desktops allow a transition from USB-A to USB-C. IMO, that's an excellent reason.
Now, can you give a reason on why Apple should not include a USB-A port, considering devices with similar size and weight have it?
That’s not what I said. I said desktops have ample room to continue including some for the reasons I specified at minimum, which is their peripherals ship with USB-A cables. I expect all of this to change sooner than later.
The reason they shouldn’t include it is there’s no clear need for it and there’s very little unused space in the chassis despite the thicker Lenovo has it and a bunch of other stuff in it. Apple made a call and I believe it’s the correct one.
You posted, "But seriously, partially because their keyboards, mice, and trackpads still ship with USB-A to Lightning cables, and because there's ample room. All of that I expect will change, eventually, as the transition advances." That transition you mentioned can been done easily in Apple desktops. Like I posted before, I think that's a valid reason to add a USB-A port to the Macbook Pro.
BTW, the Lenovo is just 3mm / 0.1 inch thicker. Do you think customers will mind having a Macbook with 3mm / 0.1 inch thicker with a USB-A port? Don't think so...
danvm said: That transition you mentioned with Apple desktops didn't happen with notebook users. Don't you think that notebook users would benefit of having a smooth transition to modern USB-C devices, as you can do with desktop devices? Something as simple as a single USB-A port would have made a huge difference for a lot users. [...] As you said, a dongle or adapter would solve many of the issues. But if Apple had included at least one USB-A port, it would have made a lot customers happy. And considering other devices had it, I see no reason for Apple doing the same.
Like I said already, name one reason it would make a "huge difference for a lot of users". I don't believe you. There's literally no good reason to use USB-A on a regular basis anymore.
You already gave a reason, when you mentioned that Apple desktops allow a transition from USB-A to USB-C. IMO, that's an excellent reason.
Now, can you give a reason on why Apple should not include a USB-A port, considering devices with similar size and weight have it?
That’s not what I said. I said desktops have ample room to continue including some for the reasons I specified at minimum, which is their peripherals ship with USB-A cables. I expect all of this to change sooner than later.
The reason they shouldn’t include it is there’s no clear need for it and there’s very little unused space in the chassis despite the thicker Lenovo has it and a bunch of other stuff in it. Apple made a call and I believe it’s the correct one.
You posted, "But seriously, partially because their keyboards, mice, and trackpads still ship with USB-A to Lightning cables, and because there's ample room. All of that I expect will change, eventually, as the transition advances." That transition you mentioned can been done easily in Apple desktops. Like I posted before, I think that's a valid reason to add a USB-A port to the Macbook Pro.
When I said "transition", I meant Apple moving to 100% USB-C, which will happen sooner than later. You're referring to "transition" in the case of a user having both ports available, which is not what I meant. The two reasons I specified they include it in desktop are 1) ample space and 2) peripherals still shipping with USB-A, both of which are non-applicable to a MacBook Pro.
BTW, the Lenovo is just 3mm / 0.1 inch thicker. Do you think customers will mind having a Macbook with 3mm / 0.1 inch thicker with a USB-A port? Don't think so...
BTW, the Lenovo is just 3mm / 0.1 inch thicker. Do you think customers will mind having a Macbook with 3mm / 0.1 inch thicker with a USB-A port? Don't think so…
1) 3mm is a lot of internal space for ports so maybe it's possible with that casing. Are you looking at the base of the notebook, or the whole thing? Can you show us a breakdown of the internal space (because materials and design can affect what can be placed inside the machine)? Can you show us the flex of the design and make a compelling argument that the Lenovo is both the same materials, design language, and rigidity of what Apple would want to offer?
2) I really don't get comments like yours. Why in the world do you think it's about you would mind? Clearly Apple designs products they think will sell best, but you not part of that equation. You are a single buyers and it sounds like you are still an Apple customer since you are here complaining about a change that happened years ago. Why not look at a product from the vantage point of its seller? Surely your gut reaction is that it's to rape customers with higher prices, but that doesn't make sense with your argument that it's not what customers want and USB-C/TB3 with 40 Gibps speeds is certainly more expensive and (to you and others) exclusionary so that can't be the case since your argument keeps implying that their sales are much lower than they would be if they would listen to what customers tell them to make.
danvm said: That transition you mentioned with Apple desktops didn't happen with notebook users. Don't you think that notebook users would benefit of having a smooth transition to modern USB-C devices, as you can do with desktop devices? Something as simple as a single USB-A port would have made a huge difference for a lot users. [...] As you said, a dongle or adapter would solve many of the issues. But if Apple had included at least one USB-A port, it would have made a lot customers happy. And considering other devices had it, I see no reason for Apple doing the same.
Like I said already, name one reason it would make a "huge difference for a lot of users". I don't believe you. There's literally no good reason to use USB-A on a regular basis anymore.
You already gave a reason, when you mentioned that Apple desktops allow a transition from USB-A to USB-C. IMO, that's an excellent reason.
Now, can you give a reason on why Apple should not include a USB-A port, considering devices with similar size and weight have it?
That’s not what I said. I said desktops have ample room to continue including some for the reasons I specified at minimum, which is their peripherals ship with USB-A cables. I expect all of this to change sooner than later.
The reason they shouldn’t include it is there’s no clear need for it and there’s very little unused space in the chassis despite the thicker Lenovo has it and a bunch of other stuff in it. Apple made a call and I believe it’s the correct one.
You posted, "But seriously, partially because their keyboards, mice, and trackpads still ship with USB-A to Lightning cables, and because there's ample room. All of that I expect will change, eventually, as the transition advances." That transition you mentioned can been done easily in Apple desktops. Like I posted before, I think that's a valid reason to add a USB-A port to the Macbook Pro.
When I said "transition", I meant Apple moving to 100% USB-C, which will happen sooner than later. You're referring to "transition" in the case of a user having both ports available, which is not what I meant. The two reasons I specified they include it in desktop are 1) ample space and 2) peripherals still shipping with USB-A, both of which are non-applicable to a MacBook Pro.
Again, the transition desktop users have would be appreciated by notebook users that need USB-A devices. IMO, this is a good reason to have at least one USB-A port. You mention that is becase their keyboards, mice and trackpads still ship with USB-A to lighting cables, but latest Apple devices include wireless input devices, and the Mac Mini do not include any. So if they didn't force desktop users to USB-C or wireless devices, couldn't do the same with their notebooks?
I would mind, if that were the driving factor.
If you have issues with the 3mm, why a user that asks for an integrated USB-A port would be different? Don't you think that both would have valid reasons? BTW, with 3mm the ThinkPad P1 gives you two USB-A port, two USB-C ports, HDMI, SD Card, and a better spill resistant keyboard. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Apple needed 3mm for a single USB-A port.
BTW, the Lenovo is just 3mm / 0.1 inch thicker. Do you think customers will mind having a Macbook with 3mm / 0.1 inch thicker with a USB-A port? Don't think so…
1) 3mm is a lot of internal space for ports so maybe it's possible with that casing. Are you looking at the base of the notebook, or the whole thing? Can you show us a breakdown of the internal space (because materials and design can affect what can be placed inside the machine)? Can you show us the flex of the design and make a compelling argument that the Lenovo is both the same materials, design language, and rigidity of what Apple would want to offer?
The 3mm in the Lenovo gives you two USB-C, two USB-A, SD card, HDMI and a better spill resistant keyboard. And ThinkPads for years have been considered one of the best notebooks in the market because of their construction, rigidity and materials. https://p.widencdn.net/ky4bev/asset-thinkpad-mil-spec-flyer
Maybe I'm wrong, but if Lenovo gave all of this with 3mm, Apple could gave users at least a single USB-A port. Who knows...
2) I really don't get comments like yours. Why in the world do you think it's about you would mind? Clearly Apple designs products they think will sell best, but you not part of that equation. You are a single buyers and it sounds like you are still an Apple customer since you are here complaining about a change that happened years ago. Why not look at a product from the vantage point of its seller? Surely your gut reaction is that it's to rape customers with higher prices, but that doesn't make sense with your argument that it's not what customers want and USB-C/TB3 with 40 Gibps speeds is certainly more expensive and (to you and others) exclusionary so that can't be the case since your argument keeps implying that their sales are much lower than they would be if they would listen to what customers tell them to make.
You got it wrong. I was part of the equation, since I own a MBP 2017, but I still have to go ahead, because I needed an Apple notebook because of my line of work. Second, I have not made and comments about pricing, again, I have a MBP 2017. Third, I don't miss too much the USB-A, although there were times I need it. The issue we are talking is about adding a single USB-A port, not removing USB-C. Don't you think customer would appreciate if Macbook had both, as other notebook vendors do?
I want one USB-A port instead of the fourth TB port.
i suspect that is unlikely..
Yeah, replacing modern ports with old, slow ports are what makes a real Pro computer.
Do you think that the latest Mac Pro is not "real Pro computer" because it has USB-A ports?
No. What kind of question is that? You're talking about a basic I/O PCIe board which is an option to buy (as far as we know) on a giant machine where you're not removing built-in 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 port and replacing it with a shitty 5Gbps USB-A port, which are two completely different things.
Devices as the Lenovo P1 have two USB-C ports, two USB-A ports, HDMI and even a SD card reader in a chassis similar and lighter to the Macbook Pro 15". IMO, there was no need to remove USB-A in the latest Macbook to make it a "real Pro computer".
Well Lenovo laptops are pieces of shit too so there you go! And are not going to convince me otherwise on that. I don't know why people want to compare such a laptop to a MacBook Pro.
You can agree or disagree with Apple's decision to remove USB-A ports (or any other port) from their notebook lineup but you can all but guarantee it ain't coming back. Honestly, the MacBook Pro is the most versatile laptop Apple has ever produced. You don't need an array of legacy ports to make it a "Pro" computer. The USB-C ports can be adapted to just about anything you could possibly ever want while also charging from any port, keeping the footprint of the device down, making it as Apple intended with its thinness, etc.
Sorry guy real in the field working pro's hate the dongle hell with the newer systems!
There was no reason to go minimalist with the MacBook PRO system. The Real PRO needs ports! USB-A (2), USB-C (4) where the rear two are recessed so a USB-C to MagSafe Plug can be fitted flush with the case. Ethernet & SD card support would be what most people want.
Yes, some like the idea of HDMI, but it's not as useful, besides an external display in the field often needs more than just HDMI like VGA or older DisplayPort so having one dongle is not a killer.
The real issue was a hole between the then current MacBook and the 2015 MacBook Pro's that's what Apple was trying to fill. The truth is it was a big market! Appel did have a hit! But the upper tier Pro market was push aside. This is the market Apple needs to aim for with the 16.5" MacBook Pro. It also needs to have serviceable RAM & Storage (2 - PCIe/NVMe slots) beyond the built-in T2 Storage.
I want one USB-A port instead of the fourth TB port.
i suspect that is unlikely..
Yeah, replacing modern ports with old, slow ports are what makes a real Pro computer.
Do you think that the latest Mac Pro is not "real Pro computer" because it has USB-A ports?
No. What kind of question is that? You're talking about a basic I/O PCIe board which is an option to buy (as far as we know) on a giant machine where you're not removing built-in 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 port and replacing it with a shitty 5Gbps USB-A port, which are two completely different things.
Devices as the Lenovo P1 have two USB-C ports, two USB-A ports, HDMI and even a SD card reader in a chassis similar and lighter to the Macbook Pro 15". IMO, there was no need to remove USB-A in the latest Macbook to make it a "real Pro computer".
Well Lenovo laptops are pieces of shit too so there you go! And are not going to convince me otherwise on that. I don't know why people want to compare such a laptop to a MacBook Pro.
You can agree or disagree with Apple's decision to remove USB-A ports (or any other port) from their notebook lineup but you can all but guarantee it ain't coming back. Honestly, the MacBook Pro is the most versatile laptop Apple has ever produced. You don't need an array of legacy ports to make it a "Pro" computer. The USB-C ports can be adapted to just about anything you could possibly ever want while also charging from any port, keeping the footprint of the device down, making it as Apple intended with its thinness, etc.
Sorry guy real in the field working pro's hate the dongle hell with the newer systems!
There was no reason to go minimalist with the MacBook PRO system. The Real PRO needs ports! USB-A (2), USB-C (4) where the rear two are recessed so a USB-C to MagSafe Plug can be fitted flush with the case. Ethernet & SD card support would be what most people want.
Yes, some like the idea of HDMI, but it's not as useful, besides an external display in the field often needs more than just HDMI like VGA or older DisplayPort so having one dongle is not a killer.
The real issue was a hole between the then current MacBook and the 2015 MacBook Pro's that's what Apple was trying to fill. The truth is it was a big market! Appel did have a hit! But the upper tier Pro market was push aside. This is the market Apple needs to aim for with the 16.5" MacBook Pro. It also needs to have serviceable RAM & Storage (2 - PCIe/NVMe slots) beyond the built-in T2 Storage.
"No true Scotsman" doesn't hold a lot of water. It's great that you know what you need, but don't confuse what you need with what everybody needs. MacBook Pro sales haven't declined much if at all since the 2012 removal of Ethernet which belies your point somewhat.
Do stay vocal about what you want and need! But, you shouldn't blunt your argument with false "But all real pros need" statements.
I want one USB-A port instead of the fourth TB port.
i suspect that is unlikely..
Yeah, replacing modern ports with old, slow ports are what makes a real Pro computer.
Do you think that the latest Mac Pro is not "real Pro computer" because it has USB-A ports?
No. What kind of question is that? You're talking about a basic I/O PCIe board which is an option to buy (as far as we know) on a giant machine where you're not removing built-in 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 port and replacing it with a shitty 5Gbps USB-A port, which are two completely different things.
No need to replace any of the TB3 ports. There's plenty of room in that chassis for the TB3 ports and a USBA port. And an HDMI. And an SD card slot.
What I don't get about apologists for the MacBook Pro's stupid port offering is: how is adding more ports a bad thing? Would anyone possibly be actively put off buying a MacBook Pro if it had four TB3 + USBA + HDMI + SD Card?
I was in a meeting yesterday with my MacBook Pro and someone asked if I could project a PowerPoint that had just been emailed to the group. Now when I know that I am giving a presentation I always make sure to lug along Apple’s humongous USB-C to HDMI adapter. But this was impromptu and so the answer was, no, my ridiculously expensive “pro” laptop could not connect to the industry standard HDMI cable on the table. And before someone says we should have an Apple TV or some USB-C adapter built-into the setup, keep in mind that this is a big corporation with dozens of conference rooms and an IT department that acts like it is the early 2000’s. I can barely get my Macs on the network.
Guess you won't make that mistake again.
LOL, the hyperbole — "lug" "humongous" — it's like what, a couple grams? You know there are much smaller ones, right? Throw this on your keychain and never get caught off guard again. It's $12 and tiny:
You guys sure aren't very good at preparing for your jobs.
Not sure why you think it is necessary to throw shade at another poster. But you can at least try to get the point of the post which is that I shouldn't have to carry around a bunch of adapters on what is ostensibly a pro laptop. Long time Mac users will remember there was a time when the pro moniker meant it came with all of the additional ports that pro users need. And if you are just going to be a jerk please don't respond. Thank you.
The “additional ports that pro users need” is not defined. Only a small minority of users need HDMI. I used myself (a pro user) as an example earlier — I could use miniDP ports as that’s what I “lost” when upgrading, but I would never assume all other users should be saddled with them for that reason. I’ve literally never needed HDMI.
MY point is that this problem is very easily solved, at which point it becomes a non issue. Anyone who chooses to continue to repeat the ridiculous hyperbole about something that is not going to change when they could easily just fix the issue in seconds is not good at problem solving. No amount of complaining is going to change reality. So why not call people out for it? It’s a discussion on the internet, and it’s not personal. I suggest growing thicker skin.
Do you have polling data that shows most pro users don’t want an HDMI connection? I suspect not. And regarding your attitude, I suggest trying to be more civil. We can use more of that.
I too, agree that Pro’s have different needs. Just because some Users don’t care about USB-A Ports, as ubiquitous as they are, doesn’t mean that Apple shouldn’t put them on their MacBook Pro’s, for those that DO NEED or WANT them! When they had Card Readers,MagSafe, TB, Express Card Slots, USB-A, Ethernet, and /or Display Port, it didn’t mean that everybody had to use them all, it meant that they were there for the convenience and use of those that did need/want them, no matter how infrequently they were used, compared to someone else. The emphasis should be on pleasing the Customer, not Apple doing what they want, or building what they want! When you pay Top-Dollar for a High-End Device, your options should be there for your improved User-Experience and Convenience! Could you imagine buying a High-End Audio-Video Receiver, and it had less connections, Options, and Connectivity, just because people Stream more Music today, that use TurntablesDVD/.CD Players or FM/AM? No, it’s all there, for whatever YOUR USES may be! What someone else uses, doesn’t mean a Damn thing to ME, and it shouldn’t! I may not use Wireless charging in my Car, or use the USB port for charging, but in a modern Vehicle, I want the capabilities to be there, such as people in the rear charging their devices, and those in front being able to,simultaneously. I don’t know why it’s so hard to see that Apple made a mistake on the faulty Keyboards, the design of the Trashcan Mac Pro, the Stagnation of timely updates to the Mac Mini/Mac Pro/ and iMac, and the elimination of the 17” MacBook Pro! Nobody expects the iMac pro, Mac Pro, or 16”-17” Mac. Book Pro to sell as well as the 13” MBP or 27” 5K iMac, neither does Mercedes sell as many S-Class vehicles, or Chevy not selling as many ZR-1’s and Z06’s! The prices make up for the smaller Sales-volumes, and they are Halo products-Just like the 16” MacBook Pro! Everything you need should be there, for the most part, and you can use it if you want to. Just because the MacBook Pro still sells well, doesn’t mean that the Public is happy with all of Apple’s recent decisions.
There are some great docks available that fit most peoples needs. When I purchased what I hope will be the 16" I'll just buy two of the docking stations and leave one in the office and one in my backpack. The products from Hyper and Henge Docks look particularly interesting and the Hyper ones are relatively inexpensive.
Comments
I also agree that was hostile, but it's also done with and I also don't think it was any more hostile than their move to USB 1.0. Without knowing any of their internal reasons for the push I would've wanted a USB-C and USB-A port on each side of the MBP. I also didn't care for the 12" MacBook only coming out with a single USB-C port. I even mention my issue with that back in 2015(?). I thought Google did it right with with the Pixelbook with a USB-C port on each side that came out at the same time.
The reason they shouldn’t include it is there’s no clear need for it and there’s very little unused space in the chassis despite the thicker Lenovo has it and a bunch of other stuff in it. Apple made a call and I believe it’s the correct one.
If the adapter is defective, it should be returned. If it’s not the adapter, they should fix their Mac.
My partner upgraded to a 2018 Air in the fall and needed an adapter for presentations, so we ordered the Apple one as we were in a hurry and comparison shopping wasn’t an option. It’s worked flawlessly since day one and she’s a total technophobe.
There’s no shortage of shoddy adapters on Amazon etc, I went through a one or two miniDP adapters before finding a brand that worked well, which didn’t take long to figure out. That’s the luck of the draw with buying peripherals on a site full of fake reviews. ¯\(°_o)/¯
Seriously, there’s something wrong with your Mac and you should get it repaired. There’s no reason all of those things should be failing unless your port/logic board is defective. It happens.
The “additional ports that pro users need” is not defined. Only a small minority of users need HDMI. I used myself (a pro user) as an example earlier — I could use miniDP ports as that’s what I “lost” when upgrading, but I would never assume all other users should be saddled with them for that reason. I’ve literally never needed HDMI.
MY point is that this problem is very easily solved, at which point it becomes a non issue. Anyone who chooses to continue to repeat the ridiculous hyperbole about something that is not going to change when they could easily just fix the issue in seconds is not good at problem solving. No amount of complaining is going to change reality. So why not call people out for it? It’s a discussion on the internet, and it’s not personal. I suggest growing thicker skin.
The point is that loads of things ship with USB-A plugs, due to the ubiquity of the USB-A port as a power delivery mechanism (it's become the standard for 5 V DC power delivery), and I think it's exceptionally unlikely that this will change any time soon.
If you want to plug such a thing into your MBP, you can't. Yes, you can with a dongle or adaptor, but as I said before: Say what you like about the versatility of USB-C and the tiny-ness of adaptors, the fact remains that if someone hands you a thing with a USB-A connector, the easiest and most hassle-free way of connecting it to your machine is if your machine has a USB-A port built-in!
The bigger point being, again, these ports are NOT coming back, and good riddance. With any luck devices that use it at all will be disappearing more rapidly over time, as with all things have in the past.
"But seriously, partially because their keyboards, mice, and trackpads still ship with USB-A to Lightning cables, and because there's ample room. All of that I expect will change, eventually, as the transition advances."
That transition you mentioned can been done easily in Apple desktops. Like I posted before, I think that's a valid reason to add a USB-A port to the Macbook Pro.
BTW, the Lenovo is just 3mm / 0.1 inch thicker. Do you think customers will mind having a Macbook with 3mm / 0.1 inch thicker with a USB-A port? Don't think so...
I would mind, if that were the driving factor.
2) I really don't get comments like yours. Why in the world do you think it's about you would mind? Clearly Apple designs products they think will sell best, but you not part of that equation. You are a single buyers and it sounds like you are still an Apple customer since you are here complaining about a change that happened years ago. Why not look at a product from the vantage point of its seller? Surely your gut reaction is that it's to rape customers with higher prices, but that doesn't make sense with your argument that it's not what customers want and USB-C/TB3 with 40 Gibps speeds is certainly more expensive and (to you and others) exclusionary so that can't be the case since your argument keeps implying that their sales are much lower than they would be if they would listen to what customers tell them to make.
If you have issues with the 3mm, why a user that asks for an integrated USB-A port would be different? Don't you think that both would have valid reasons? BTW, with 3mm the ThinkPad P1 gives you two USB-A port, two USB-C ports, HDMI, SD Card, and a better spill resistant keyboard. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Apple needed 3mm for a single USB-A port.
https://p.widencdn.net/ky4bev/asset-thinkpad-mil-spec-flyer
Maybe I'm wrong, but if Lenovo gave all of this with 3mm, Apple could gave users at least a single USB-A port. Who knows...
You got it wrong. I was part of the equation, since I own a MBP 2017, but I still have to go ahead, because I needed an Apple notebook because of my line of work. Second, I have not made and comments about pricing, again, I have a MBP 2017. Third, I don't miss too much the USB-A, although there were times I need it. The issue we are talking is about adding a single USB-A port, not removing USB-C. Don't you think customer would appreciate if Macbook had both, as other notebook vendors do?
There was no reason to go minimalist with the MacBook PRO system. The Real PRO needs ports! USB-A (2), USB-C (4) where the rear two are recessed so a USB-C to MagSafe Plug can be fitted flush with the case. Ethernet & SD card support would be what most people want.
Yes, some like the idea of HDMI, but it's not as useful, besides an external display in the field often needs more than just HDMI like VGA or older DisplayPort so having one dongle is not a killer.
The real issue was a hole between the then current MacBook and the 2015 MacBook Pro's that's what Apple was trying to fill. The truth is it was a big market! Appel did have a hit! But the upper tier Pro market was push aside. This is the market Apple needs to aim for with the 16.5" MacBook Pro. It also needs to have serviceable RAM & Storage (2 - PCIe/NVMe slots) beyond the built-in T2 Storage.