danvm said: That transition you mentioned with Apple desktops didn't happen with notebook users. Don't you think that notebook users would benefit of having a smooth transition to modern USB-C devices, as you can do with desktop devices? Something as simple as a single USB-A port would have made a huge difference for a lot users. [...] As you said, a dongle or adapter would solve many of the issues. But if Apple had included at least one USB-A port, it would have made a lot customers happy. And considering other devices had it, I see no reason for Apple doing the same.
Like I said already, name one reason it would make a "huge difference for a lot of users". I don't believe you. There's literally no good reason to use USB-A on a regular basis anymore.
You already gave a reason, when you mentioned that Apple desktops allow a transition from USB-A to USB-C. IMO, that's an excellent reason.
Now, can you give a reason on why Apple should not include a USB-A port, considering devices with similar size and weight have it?
That’s not what I said. I said desktops have ample room to continue including some for the reasons I specified at minimum, which is their peripherals ship with USB-A cables. I expect all of this to change sooner than later.
The reason they shouldn’t include it is there’s no clear need for it and there’s very little unused space in the chassis despite the thicker Lenovo has it and a bunch of other stuff in it. Apple made a call and I believe it’s the correct one.
You posted, "But seriously, partially because their keyboards, mice, and trackpads still ship with USB-A to Lightning cables, and because there's ample room. All of that I expect will change, eventually, as the transition advances." That transition you mentioned can been done easily in Apple desktops. Like I posted before, I think that's a valid reason to add a USB-A port to the Macbook Pro.
When I said "transition", I meant Apple moving to 100% USB-C, which will happen sooner than later. You're referring to "transition" in the case of a user having both ports available, which is not what I meant. The two reasons I specified they include it in desktop are 1) ample space and 2) peripherals still shipping with USB-A, both of which are non-applicable to a MacBook Pro.
Again, the transition desktop users have would be appreciated by notebook users that need USB-A devices. IMO, this is a good reason to have at least one USB-A port. You mention that is becase their keyboards, mice and trackpads still ship with USB-A to lighting cables, but latest Apple devices include wireless input devices, and the Mac Mini do not include any. So if they didn't force desktop users to USB-C or wireless devices, couldn't do the same with their notebooks?
I would mind, if that were the driving factor.
If you have issues with the 3mm, why a user that asks for an integrated USB-A port would be different? Don't you think that both would have valid reasons? BTW, with 3mm the ThinkPad P1 gives you two USB-A port, two USB-C ports, HDMI, SD Card, and a better spill resistant keyboard. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Apple needed 3mm for a single USB-A port.
1) Nobody NEEDS a USB-A port. You would like one. That's not the same thing. USB-C is backwards compatible.
2) The wireless input devices you just mentioned ship with USB-A to Lightning cables.
3) Nobody buying a MacBook is buying these devices (minus the odd mouse user)
4) I mean't I would mind if they added 3mm of thickness and weight to MBP to only add USB-A ports. If they kept HDMI and SD and that did not add extra thickness, then great. But keeping things thicker/heavier for those clinging to legacy ports is ridiculous, and Apple knows this. Hence the lack of USB-A.
I want one USB-A port instead of the fourth TB port.
i suspect that is unlikely..
Yeah, replacing modern ports with old, slow ports are what makes a real Pro computer.
Do you think that the latest Mac Pro is not "real Pro computer" because it has USB-A ports?
No. What kind of question is that? You're talking about a basic I/O PCIe board which is an option to buy (as far as we know) on a giant machine where you're not removing built-in 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 port and replacing it with a shitty 5Gbps USB-A port, which are two completely different things.
No need to replace any of the TB3 ports. There's plenty of room in that chassis for the TB3 ports and a USBA port. And an HDMI. And an SD card slot.
What I don't get about apologists for the MacBook Pro's stupid port offering is: how is adding more ports a bad thing? Would anyone possibly be actively put off buying a MacBook Pro if it had four TB3 + USBA + HDMI + SD Card?
I was in a meeting yesterday with my MacBook Pro and someone asked if I could project a PowerPoint that had just been emailed to the group. Now when I know that I am giving a presentation I always make sure to lug along Apple’s humongous USB-C to HDMI adapter. But this was impromptu and so the answer was, no, my ridiculously expensive “pro” laptop could not connect to the industry standard HDMI cable on the table. And before someone says we should have an Apple TV or some USB-C adapter built-into the setup, keep in mind that this is a big corporation with dozens of conference rooms and an IT department that acts like it is the early 2000’s. I can barely get my Macs on the network.
Guess you won't make that mistake again.
LOL, the hyperbole — "lug" "humongous" — it's like what, a couple grams? You know there are much smaller ones, right? Throw this on your keychain and never get caught off guard again. It's $12 and tiny:
You guys sure aren't very good at preparing for your jobs.
Not sure why you think it is necessary to throw shade at another poster. But you can at least try to get the point of the post which is that I shouldn't have to carry around a bunch of adapters on what is ostensibly a pro laptop. Long time Mac users will remember there was a time when the pro moniker meant it came with all of the additional ports that pro users need. And if you are just going to be a jerk please don't respond. Thank you.
The “additional ports that pro users need” is not defined. Only a small minority of users need HDMI. I used myself (a pro user) as an example earlier — I could use miniDP ports as that’s what I “lost” when upgrading, but I would never assume all other users should be saddled with them for that reason. I’ve literally never needed HDMI.
MY point is that this problem is very easily solved, at which point it becomes a non issue. Anyone who chooses to continue to repeat the ridiculous hyperbole about something that is not going to change when they could easily just fix the issue in seconds is not good at problem solving. No amount of complaining is going to change reality. So why not call people out for it? It’s a discussion on the internet, and it’s not personal. I suggest growing thicker skin.
Do you have polling data that shows most pro users don’t want an HDMI connection? I suspect not. And regarding your attitude, I suggest trying to be more civil. We can use more of that.
Most users who buy a laptop never, ever plug it into an external monitor. This should be common sense to most people.
Thanks for your suggestion, I've filed it to /dev/null/.
Apple has an ideology of minimalism going back to Steve jobs. It's why they didn't make 2 button mice and they took away floppy drives etc.
It has always been born of a certain arrogance, that they knew better than their users what the user should want regardless of how accurately this matched reality.
In many cases they have just been wrong and their designs have been counter productive to their aesthetics. The lack of ports simply makes Pro users who need these things buy hubs which create a rats nest of cables, very much contrary to their espoused design minimalism. It just pushes the ugliness off the main computer to somewhere else. It's a NIMBY attitude toward design. Dongles to me are a design fail.
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2) The wireless input devices you just mentioned ship with USB-A to Lightning cables.
3) Nobody buying a MacBook is buying these devices (minus the odd mouse user)
4) I mean't I would mind if they added 3mm of thickness and weight to MBP to only add USB-A ports. If they kept HDMI and SD and that did not add extra thickness, then great. But keeping things thicker/heavier for those clinging to legacy ports is ridiculous, and Apple knows this. Hence the lack of USB-A.
Deal with it.
Most users who buy a laptop never, ever plug it into an external monitor. This should be common sense to most people.
Thanks for your suggestion, I've filed it to /dev/null/.