I’m really happy to see Apple paying attention to the needs of professionals!
(to clarify — by “professionals” I mean people who use their Macs for paid work.)
Except the SD card slot and optical audio didn’t come back. The former is still widely used by professional photographers and I’m not sure how much space and cost Apple saved for the latter, but it can’t have been much; it’s something that some people really loved. Apple cutting the ports seemed more about trying to push the adoption of USB+C, but I don’t think that was necessary because although it got off to a slow start it was the natural progression for USB anyway.
So for me this new MacBook is a mixed blessing. I like the bigger screen, slimmer bezels and improved battery and keyboard, but if those two former interfaces/ports returned it would’ve been perfect.
In the interview the other day that’s been posted here too, Schiller made an excellent argument as to why the SD slot is unlikely to return.
I'm a photographer as well. Over the past two decades we went from some cameras using “smart cards”, to compact Flash to SD. Which of those slots should Apple have supported, and for how long? The problem is that even with SD, we’ve seen major advancements. Newer SD cards don’t work in older SD slots, and older cards may, or may not work in newer ones. What about CF Express, and others? The fact is that having a slot is only good for a relatively short time. It’s got to accommodate a number of different generations of cards. It needs to have good performance. There just isn’t any way to do that with a permanent slot, and technology.
in the olde days, when laptops were 1.5 inches thick, you could have slide in openings where newer adapters could fit, and if the bus was able to, you could get improved performance. But nobody wants to go back to those days. I’m sure that a number of people who carry these around with them all day are even moaning at the small weight increase. Laptops have become much more portable than the 7 pound models we had a number of years ago, and those were a lot lighter than the much heavier ones before that. Nobody want to go back in time that way.
so for best performance—for those who need the slot, a fast USB C or TB3 to SD card adapter is the ideal way to go. We can get a CF adapter for the greatest speed, and an older model for older, slower cards. They don’t cost all that much. And if you're a pro photographer, not only do you have thousands of dollars of computer equipment, but possibly many thousands in pro photo gear. And keep in mind that the bigger, faster CF Express cards can cost over $200 apiece! So that adapter means nothing in terms of cost. As far as carrying it with you, well, you’ve already got a number of memory cards, chargers, batteries, flashes, and,other cords for your camera equipment in something to carry them. Bringing another adapter isn’t an issue.
If that SD card slot is useful to most people with a camera, because most cameras have SD, then why not add it? Does it mean you're unable to use that Mac because it has a SD card slot? Does it somehow disadvantage you? It doesn't mean that in special cases like yours where people have a CF card you can't use one of your beloved adapters. It's very rare to find a SD card that doesn't work in a SD slot.
These do look very nice, especially good that they seem to be putting some effort into having a decent GPU now. Shame it's not Nvidia, but still we can't expect Apple to get over their spat with Nvidia for at least 7 years. The keyboard change is really an admission that the butterfly mechanism was a bad design. If the third iteration was reliable, Apple wouldn't have changed back. I do think there is some psychology in that decision, but still.
It does seem that as soon as the world starts to catch up to the connectors on Apple's current computers, they switch to something else. HDMI is becoming fairly ubiquitous, but now we need an adapter. HDMI is thin enough to fit on the Macbook, there is no reason to not include it. It's incredibly useful to be able to connect to devices without an adapter. No worries if you forget it, or don't know you're going to need it before you leave. I've replaced the presenting PC with my 13" 2015 MacBook several times when people have had issues, which wouldn't be possible without its built-in HDMI.
sudden outbreak of common sense, maybe finally a decent keyboard again to replace the pieces of shit they put in over past years and a proper "esc" key is the right call ... excellent! its progress in the right direction but it looks like it still needs $100+ dollars of adapters to do anything useful.
how hard is it to make a "pro" machine that does not need an adapter to plug into HDMI (essentially what is required by any presentation in business or education) .
but non butterfly keyboard and a decent 'esc' key is already a good first step to get back to the formerly brilliant mac book pros.
That's still an adapter, it adapts from one format to another, just all in one cable.
LoL. No.
Then by our logic USB cables a couple years ago were all also adapters.
No one called it an adapter. Everyone called it just a USB-cable.
We have a comon understanding what we call adapters. You try to play with the logic witout considering the language (and mutual agreement) itself.
This semantic argument is tiring. Years ago I was on interface working committees. Engineers there would be laughing at this argument about what can, and can’t be called an adapter.
an adapter is something that adapts two, or more, incompatible parts. The type of parts don’t matter. There are different layers in ports. The one we’re concerned with here is the physical layer, which is the one we see. It doesn’t matter if the rest of the layers match, transport protocol, etc. what matters is whether the ports will connect. If the physical layer is different, even if everything else is the same, then you need to adapt that physical layer. In other words, you need an adapter, no matter what you want to call it.
i get the problem some are having with using the word adapter. It seems to be a dirty word. But, yes, every cable with one physical port that’s different to another, is an adapter. So a FireWire cable that has a male on one end, and a female on the other for the purpose of stringing two shorter cables together is indeed an adapter. It may not be called that, but that is what it is. The same thing for a USB C on one end and hdmi on the other. It doesn’t matter if it’s 3” long, or 25’ long. The only difference is that the short one is usually just called an adapter, and the long one, an adapter cable, accounting for the difference in length.
seriously, the semantics don’t matter. If you’re going somewhere to give a talk, and you need to connect, you’re an idiot if you don’t carry your own cables for at least a couple of different ports. You’d be surprised at how many venues have bad cables, or none at all, particularly the smaller ones. I’ve seen situations where they say;”Usually people bring their own.” Too bad Radio Shack is done for it. Maybe Staples.
Are there people who won't buy this machine, say for a daughter going to college, because it does NOT have an HDMI port? Yes.
You're gonna send your daughter to college with a PC because of an HDMI port? What kind of monster are you? I'm calling CPS.
Well, they won’t be sending her with a flagship Dell XPS 13, because it doesn’t have HDMI either.
Or rather, to be precise, it (and all MacBooks) does have HDMI, just without a legacy connector.
Dell makes a semi-big deal about the XPS 15 having an array of these legacy ports that have been absorbed into USB-C and Thunderbolt 3. To the point where you have to wonder if most of the legacy-port diehards in this thread are marketers.
I think the Dell XPS is a consumer flagship notebook. If we made a comparison, maybe the Thinkpad P1 is more similar to the Macbook Pro. And this model has SD Card reader, USA-A, USB-C and HDMI. For me, USB-C is more than enough. But it's clear there is a group of people that needs more than USB-C.
I wonder how many people need these ports these days, and how much is marketing. With most devices using USB C these days, these old ports are more for old devices which may not work properly with new computers anyway.
No listing of all the ports and connectors? THAT is what separates a pro computer from the incapable POS’ we’ve been getting called MacBook Pro.
UPDATE: Four Thunderbolt 3 ports. That’s all. Good lord... from their web site:
” MacBook Pro is equipped with four ports, so you can do all of that from either side. Existing devices are easily connected with a cable or adapter. And Thunderbolt 3 is reversible, so no matter how you plug in, it’s always right side up.”
It’ll still be a massive shitpile of adapters on a regular desk. Hate this mentality of theirs. Is it really asking for too much to expect some actual USB, Ethernet or other kinds of ports to REDUCE the number of adapters?
It has USB. USB-C is the latest iteration of USB. You don’t need adapters, you just need the proper cables for your devices. Do you understand that? Cables. Plenty of A-to-C cables.
Are you honestly asking for an ethernet port!?
I give at lot of customer presentations and they all, without exception, give me a HDMI cable for the big screen in the meeting room. So it is not the proper cable that is the issue but the proper port on my laptop. And don't make me "educate" my customers.
Sounds like you have a special use case. Not typical for the typical pro customer, which Apple’s Craig has said is software development. So no harm in asking you to use an adapter to support your special use case of “presentations where I can’t use my own cable”. Good thing they exist, right? But still no reason to add single-use extra ports to every single customer for your specific use case.
There is nothing special about the use case of all my customers; it is the most common use case in a corporate environment. Can I use an dongle? Of course, but it is an unnecessary annoyance.
For big screen in meeting rooms, Thunderbolt does not offer any technically advantage wrt HDMI. They both can carry a 4K digital video signal at 60 Hz.
What is a a special use case on the other hand, is people needing 4 Thunderbolt connections. So a machine with 3 Thunderbold connections and 1 HDMI interface is much more practical
Again, MOST PEOPLE do not do presentations or ever hook their MBP up to an HDMI cable, despite what your personal anecdotal experience is with regard to "all your customers". Do you run a Presentations 'R' Us? And again, do "all your customers" own a 2012-2015 Retina MacBook Pro? Because that's the only model of MacBook that's EVER had HDMI. None of them own an Air? Older MBP? The long-lived non-Retina MBP that sold until 2015? The 12" MacBook? I don't buy it.
Losing a TB3 port to HDMI would be a signifiant downgrade for many users, including myself. I certainly don't need or have ever needed an HDMI port, however I have used up all four of my TB3 ports on many occasion over the last year.
A corporate office environment is full of meeting rooms with a big screen, and these big screens are used all day. For one reason or another, HDMI is the preferred method to connect to that meeting room screen. Even for huge Apple clients: 3 weeks ago I made a presentation in an IBM building and guess what: 3 of my IBM guests has a Lenovo PC without dongles and 2 had a Macbook Pro with a USB-C to HDMI dongle. So don't deny the fact that there are millions and millions of meeting rooms where HDMI is the only way to connect to the meeting room screen,whether we like it or not. And this is not going change very quickly because the suppliers of these big screens like Samsung, Philips and Sony prefer to include HDMI connectors in their screens.
Assuming that the most people do not present, because it does not fit your usage pattern, is very shortsighted
I will very definitely deny that there are “millions and millions of these meeting rooms”. But seriously, that means nothing. We’re still talking about an adapter that costs maybe $20. I don’t really care about those who complain. That’s just petty. Nobody travels with just their computer. They have needed accessories as well. Chargers, charging cables, earphones or buds, a couple of cables, and adapters. It’s all part of the kit for a responsible professional. If someone is complaining they don’t want the adapter, I would just give them the middle finger, and tell them to suck it up.
These do look very nice, especially good that they seem to be putting some effort into having a decent GPU now. Shame it's not Nvidia, but still we can't expect Apple to get over their spat with Nvidia for at least 7 years. The keyboard change is really an admission that the butterfly mechanism was a bad design. If the third iteration was reliable, Apple wouldn't have changed back. I do think there is some psychology in that decision, but still.
It does seem that as soon as the world starts to catch up to the connectors on Apple's current computers, they switch to something else. HDMI is becoming fairly ubiquitous, but now we need an adapter. HDMI is thin enough to fit on the Macbook, there is no reason to not include it. It's incredibly useful to be able to connect to devices without an adapter. No worries if you forget it, or don't know you're going to need it before you leave. I've replaced the presenting PC with my 13" 2015 MacBook several times when people have had issues, which wouldn't be possible without its built-in HDMI.
sudden outbreak of common sense, maybe finally a decent keyboard again to replace the pieces of shit they put in over past years and a proper "esc" key is the right call ... excellent! its progress in the right direction but it looks like it still needs $100+ dollars of adapters to do anything useful.
how hard is it to make a "pro" machine that does not need an adapter to plug into HDMI (essentially what is required by any presentation in business or education) .
but non butterfly keyboard and a decent 'esc' key is already a good first step to get back to the formerly brilliant mac book pros.
That's still an adapter, it adapts from one format to another, just all in one cable.
It is no more an adapter than a HDMI to HDMI cable is, or a HDMI to mini-HDMI. USB-C literally contains the HDMI spec.
Adapter:
noun One that adapts, such as a device used to effect operative compatibility between different parts of one or more pieces of apparatus.
It's an adapter. But in any case, the majority of projectors have HDMI, the majority of projectors plug directly into older Macbooks (and most PCs) with no adapter, and the cable is usually provided already. But with the USB-C Macs, you need an adapter. Oh sorry, I mean a special cable with two different ends to adapt the USB-C port.
Many many business conference rooms with projectors have HDMI wired into the wall. None have USB-C. Good luck finding a USB C TV or a non-portable USB C projector too. Yes I'm sure they'll come, but forcing this incompatibility on users is annoying, when having both would provide a transition period. The industry is moving to USB-C, and will be all the better for it, but Apple making it harder to use their Macs won't speed up the industry. It'd be like saying EVs are here, need to stop all petrol production tomorrow. It's never anywhere near as fast as Apple likes to think it is in their Silicon Valley bubble.
I’m certainly not an Apple Engineer, so I could be wrong on this opinion, which may or may not be factual...
There are many ports that could still fit on the chassis of the MacBook Pro, including HDMI. However each port they add requires a circuit path on the motherboard, and sometimes may also require an additional chip for signal/data processing back to the CPU or GPU.
Sticking with four Thunderbolt ports simplifies the motherboard design. The smaller the motherboard, the more space there is for batteries inside the chasis. Smaller/simpler motherboards will also draw less power, which again improves battery life. The fewer the chips that Apple can place on the board results in efficiency gains.
Yes it makes the motherboard design marginally cheaper, but Thunderbolt already contains everything necessary to push HDMI signals, so there's no need to add a transceiver chip for HDMI compatibility. All it needs is the port itself, which makes it all the more stupid that they didn't include it.
People probably won't choose not to buy the Macbook because it has no HDMI port. But when you add that to not having an SD card reader, not having Magsafe, not having USB-A ports, people may think "actually, I can get a PC that's got all those ports and is $500 less, and I've not got to spend $100 on adapters. I'll do that."
People buy Macs or PCs because they want Macs or PCs, usually because of the kind of work they do. I doubt very much that anyone other than a handful of chronic complainers are going to switch because of a few easily gotten, and cheap, adapters. If they do, you have to wonder about their ability to think critically.
These do look very nice, especially good that they seem to be putting some effort into having a decent GPU now. Shame it's not Nvidia, but still we can't expect Apple to get over their spat with Nvidia for at least 7 years. The keyboard change is really an admission that the butterfly mechanism was a bad design. If the third iteration was reliable, Apple wouldn't have changed back. I do think there is some psychology in that decision, but still.
It does seem that as soon as the world starts to catch up to the connectors on Apple's current computers, they switch to something else. HDMI is becoming fairly ubiquitous, but now we need an adapter. HDMI is thin enough to fit on the Macbook, there is no reason to not include it. It's incredibly useful to be able to connect to devices without an adapter. No worries if you forget it, or don't know you're going to need it before you leave. I've replaced the presenting PC with my 13" 2015 MacBook several times when people have had issues, which wouldn't be possible without its built-in HDMI.
sudden outbreak of common sense, maybe finally a decent keyboard again to replace the pieces of shit they put in over past years and a proper "esc" key is the right call ... excellent! its progress in the right direction but it looks like it still needs $100+ dollars of adapters to do anything useful.
how hard is it to make a "pro" machine that does not need an adapter to plug into HDMI (essentially what is required by any presentation in business or education) .
but non butterfly keyboard and a decent 'esc' key is already a good first step to get back to the formerly brilliant mac book pros.
That's still an adapter, it adapts from one format to another, just all in one cable.
It is no more an adapter than a HDMI to HDMI cable is, or a HDMI to mini-HDMI. USB-C literally contains the HDMI spec.
Adapter:
noun One that adapts, such as a device used to effect operative compatibility between different parts of one or more pieces of apparatus.
It's an adapter. But in any case, the majority of projectors have HDMI, the majority of projectors plug directly into older Macbooks (and most PCs) with no adapter, and the cable is usually provided already. But with the USB-C Macs, you need an adapter. Oh sorry, I mean a special cable with two different ends to adapt the USB-C port.
Many many business conference rooms with projectors have HDMI wired into the wall. None have USB-C. Good luck finding a USB C TV or a non-portable USB C projector too. Yes I'm sure they'll come, but forcing this incompatibility on users is annoying, when having both would provide a transition period. The industry is moving to USB-C, and will be all the better for it, but Apple making it harder to use their Macs won't speed up the industry. It'd be like saying EVs are here, need to stop all petrol production tomorrow. It's never anywhere near as fast as Apple likes to think it is in their Silicon Valley bubble.
Okay, then a USB-A to USB-B peripheral cable or a USB-A to Lightning cable is an adapter then since it has two different ends, got it. And, by the definition, a USB-C to HDMI cable is not a "device used to effect operative compatibility" as it is a straight-through cable with no intermediate circuitry to make or translate the signal to something else.
So, still no.
Regardless, Apple still isn't going back. Instead of allocating two (or four) PCI-E channels to a port with one use, HDMI, it has chosen to use it for a port that can be used for anything. In my opinion, as one who gives presentations frequently, this is better.
My original point was, you don't need to spend dollars on "ugly adapters" because there is no need to do so. There will always be, and have always been, cabling to get from point A to point C.
You may not like it, but Thunderbolt 3 is what they settled on for their portable Macs. If you want a small, light machine to give presentations on with HDMI, bring a Mac mini. It'll be cheaper than the MacBook Pro as a bonus.
Yes, those are technically adapters. They adapt one port type to another. It doesn't need intermediate circuitry to be classified as an adapter, the definition states it need only enable compatibility between apparatus, and that is what a USB A to B cable does. A to A won't work with a printer for example. There are mains travel adapters that adapt one country's mains socket to another. Or are they not adapters because they're straight through wires inside?
So actually yes. Whether you agree with the definition or not is irrelevant really, the definition is what it is.
The lane allocation doesn't need to be static, the older MacBooks had more lanes assigned to the rear TB ports.
My original point was that the cost is largely irrelevant, it's the convenience of having the a widely used port already available. I never disputed that adapters exist, but it doesn't matter if they're free when you don't have it with you.
I like it a lot, I think TB is absolutely brilliant. The convenience of being able to use any USB-C device to charge the Macbook is great, the reversible plugs are great, the speed is great. The arrogance of Apple assuming everyone's going to switch to USB-C overnight is not great. Yeah I'll just cart a Mac Mini around everywhere rather than an adapter, that's a great solution to having no HDMI port ߙ䦬t;/div>
Yeah, I agree the definition is what it is. I also think that you're interpreting it wrong to prove what you want to say, and I'm sure that you think that I'm doing the same.
Overnight? It's been over three years for TB3 and over four for USB-C as a whole. No overnight about it, well over 1,000 of them.
These do look very nice, especially good that they seem to be putting some effort into having a decent GPU now. Shame it's not Nvidia, but still we can't expect Apple to get over their spat with Nvidia for at least 7 years. The keyboard change is really an admission that the butterfly mechanism was a bad design. If the third iteration was reliable, Apple wouldn't have changed back. I do think there is some psychology in that decision, but still.
It does seem that as soon as the world starts to catch up to the connectors on Apple's current computers, they switch to something else. HDMI is becoming fairly ubiquitous, but now we need an adapter. HDMI is thin enough to fit on the Macbook, there is no reason to not include it. It's incredibly useful to be able to connect to devices without an adapter. No worries if you forget it, or don't know you're going to need it before you leave. I've replaced the presenting PC with my 13" 2015 MacBook several times when people have had issues, which wouldn't be possible without its built-in HDMI.
sudden outbreak of common sense, maybe finally a decent keyboard again to replace the pieces of shit they put in over past years and a proper "esc" key is the right call ... excellent! its progress in the right direction but it looks like it still needs $100+ dollars of adapters to do anything useful.
how hard is it to make a "pro" machine that does not need an adapter to plug into HDMI (essentially what is required by any presentation in business or education) .
but non butterfly keyboard and a decent 'esc' key is already a good first step to get back to the formerly brilliant mac book pros.
That's still an adapter, it adapts from one format to another, just all in one cable.
It is no more an adapter than a HDMI to HDMI cable is, or a HDMI to mini-HDMI. USB-C literally contains the HDMI spec.
Adapter:
noun One that adapts, such as a device used to effect operative compatibility between different parts of one or more pieces of apparatus.
It's an adapter. But in any case, the majority of projectors have HDMI, the majority of projectors plug directly into older Macbooks (and most PCs) with no adapter, and the cable is usually provided already. But with the USB-C Macs, you need an adapter. Oh sorry, I mean a special cable with two different ends to adapt the USB-C port.
Many many business conference rooms with projectors have HDMI wired into the wall. None have USB-C. Good luck finding a USB C TV or a non-portable USB C projector too. Yes I'm sure they'll come, but forcing this incompatibility on users is annoying, when having both would provide a transition period. The industry is moving to USB-C, and will be all the better for it, but Apple making it harder to use their Macs won't speed up the industry. It'd be like saying EVs are here, need to stop all petrol production tomorrow. It's never anywhere near as fast as Apple likes to think it is in their Silicon Valley bubble.
I’m certainly not an Apple Engineer, so I could be wrong on this opinion, which may or may not be factual...
There are many ports that could still fit on the chassis of the MacBook Pro, including HDMI. However each port they add requires a circuit path on the motherboard, and sometimes may also require an additional chip for signal/data processing back to the CPU or GPU.
Sticking with four Thunderbolt ports simplifies the motherboard design. The smaller the motherboard, the more space there is for batteries inside the chasis. Smaller/simpler motherboards will also draw less power, which again improves battery life. The fewer the chips that Apple can place on the board results in efficiency gains.
Yes it makes the motherboard design marginally cheaper, but Thunderbolt already contains everything necessary to push HDMI signals, so there's no need to add a transceiver chip for HDMI compatibility. All it needs is the port itself, which makes it all the more stupid that they didn't include it.
People probably won't choose not to buy the Macbook because it has no HDMI port. But when you add that to not having an SD card reader, not having Magsafe, not having USB-A ports, people may think "actually, I can get a PC that's got all those ports and is $500 less, and I've not got to spend $100 on adapters. I'll do that."
Absurd. SD is a consumer memory card format; it's absolutely useless to those of us using beefier CF -- so why in hell should they add controllers and space dedicated to your personal preference? Or mine? Errrnnnt. Nope. No single-purpose junk, get the gear you need for your use case.
I need Magsafe on my dev notebook as much as I need it on my iPad. No whining there, amazingly.
This kind of seems like a 10 page rant because someone forgot to bring their hdmi adapter once. Heal from the trauma and move on. Usually if someone forgets something they just remember to bring it next time, not demand that the computer be redesigned.
I forgot my iphone today, not going to ask for a redesign.
Having the usb-c thunderbolt 3 ports offers flexibility because they can handle almost anything, even if it may need an adapter for some particular things (cf card, sd card, usb-a, displayport, hdmi, cdrom drive, etc) to do it.
I think Apple should have just put one TB3 port on the machine. Those with "special use cases" who need more than one port can simply carry around a TB3 hub. No big deal.
Nobody has claimed multi-purpose ports are a special use case. By definition, multi-use ports are not. By definition, single-purpose ports for ceiling-mounted projects is.
Try harder.
It's you that lack reading comprehension. I didn't say multi-purpose ports are a special use case. I said using more than one such port at a time is a special use case. At least as special as needing an HDMI port for projecting presentations.
I’m really happy to see Apple paying attention to the needs of professionals!
(to clarify — by “professionals” I mean people who use their Macs for paid work.)
Except the SD card slot and optical audio didn’t come back. The former is still widely used by professional photographers and I’m not sure how much space and cost Apple saved for the latter, but it can’t have been much; it’s something that some people really loved. Apple cutting the ports seemed more about trying to push the adoption of USB+C, but I don’t think that was necessary because although it got off to a slow start it was the natural progression for USB anyway.
So for me this new MacBook is a mixed blessing. I like the bigger screen, slimmer bezels and improved battery and keyboard, but if those two former interfaces/ports returned it would’ve been perfect.
In the interview the other day that’s been posted here too, Schiller made an excellent argument as to why the SD slot is unlikely to return.
I'm a photographer as well. Over the past two decades we went from some cameras using “smart cards”, to compact Flash to SD. Which of those slots should Apple have supported, and for how long? The problem is that even with SD, we’ve seen major advancements. Newer SD cards don’t work in older SD slots, and older cards may, or may not work in newer ones. What about CF Express, and others? The fact is that having a slot is only good for a relatively short time. It’s got to accommodate a number of different generations of cards. It needs to have good performance. There just isn’t any way to do that with a permanent slot, and technology.
in the olde days, when laptops were 1.5 inches thick, you could have slide in openings where newer adapters could fit, and if the bus was able to, you could get improved performance. But nobody wants to go back to those days. I’m sure that a number of people who carry these around with them all day are even moaning at the small weight increase. Laptops have become much more portable than the 7 pound models we had a number of years ago, and those were a lot lighter than the much heavier ones before that. Nobody want to go back in time that way.
so for best performance—for those who need the slot, a fast USB C or TB3 to SD card adapter is the ideal way to go. We can get a CF adapter for the greatest speed, and an older model for older, slower cards. They don’t cost all that much. And if you're a pro photographer, not only do you have thousands of dollars of computer equipment, but possibly many thousands in pro photo gear. And keep in mind that the bigger, faster CF Express cards can cost over $200 apiece! So that adapter means nothing in terms of cost. As far as carrying it with you, well, you’ve already got a number of memory cards, chargers, batteries, flashes, and,other cords for your camera equipment in something to carry them. Bringing another adapter isn’t an issue.
If that SD card slot is useful to most people with a camera, because most cameras have SD, then why not add it? Does it mean you're unable to use that Mac because it has a SD card slot? Does it somehow disadvantage you? It doesn't mean that in special cases like yours where people have a CF card you can't use one of your beloved adapters. It's very rare to find a SD card that doesn't work in a SD slot.
Because SD is a rapidly changing technology. Today’s slot likely won’t work with an SD card from next year. A slot from two years ago won’t work with many of today’s SD cards. What’s the point, to have the lowest common denominator?
guys like you think backwards. So let’s just add every port that still exists because they won’t bother you? What kind of thinking is that? I see no point to having a slot that will be obsolete far sooner than the rest of the computer. And since this is a PROFESSIONAL machine, old SD cards are worthless. You may not know it, but pros buy the card their camera fits, which isn’t an old, slow card. Newer cameras don’t use five year old card types.
if you want to make the case for this in a consumer level machine, you’ve got a better case for it.
I think Apple should have just put one TB3 port on the machine. Those with "special use cases" who need more than one port can simply carry around a TB3 hub. No big deal.
Nobody has claimed multi-purpose ports are a special use case. By definition, multi-use ports are not. By definition, single-purpose ports for ceiling-mounted projects is.
Try harder.
It's you that lack reading comprehension. I didn't say multi-purpose ports are a special use case. I said using more than one such port at a time is a special use case. At least as special as needing an HDMI port for projecting presentations.
How special? A port is a port. Not many of us like to string things on one port, even though we can.
so one port for an external drive. One for a network connection. One to download pics from a camera. Maybe a large external monitor.
there are plenty of concurrent uses for multipurpose ports. None of them special.
No listing of all the ports and connectors? THAT is what separates a pro computer from the incapable POS’ we’ve been getting called MacBook Pro.
UPDATE: Four Thunderbolt 3 ports. That’s all. Good lord... from their web site:
” MacBook Pro is equipped with four ports, so you can do all of that from either side. Existing devices are easily connected with a cable or adapter. And Thunderbolt 3 is reversible, so no matter how you plug in, it’s always right side up.”
It’ll still be a massive shitpile of adapters on a regular desk. Hate this mentality of theirs. Is it really asking for too much to expect some actual USB, Ethernet or other kinds of ports to REDUCE the number of adapters?
It has USB. USB-C is the latest iteration of USB. You don’t need adapters, you just need the proper cables for your devices. Do you understand that? Cables. Plenty of A-to-C cables.
Are you honestly asking for an ethernet port!?
I give at lot of customer presentations and they all, without exception, give me a HDMI cable for the big screen in the meeting room. So it is not the proper cable that is the issue but the proper port on my laptop. And don't make me "educate" my customers.
Sounds like you have a special use case. Not typical for the typical pro customer, which Apple’s Craig has said is software development. So no harm in asking you to use an adapter to support your special use case of “presentations where I can’t use my own cable”. Good thing they exist, right? But still no reason to add single-use extra ports to every single customer for your specific use case.
There is nothing special about the use case of all my customers; it is the most common use case in a corporate environment. Can I use an dongle? Of course, but it is an unnecessary annoyance.
For big screen in meeting rooms, Thunderbolt does not offer any technically advantage wrt HDMI. They both can carry a 4K digital video signal at 60 Hz.
What is a a special use case on the other hand, is people needing 4 Thunderbolt connections. So a machine with 3 Thunderbold connections and 1 HDMI interface is much more practical
Again, MOST PEOPLE do not do presentations or ever hook their MBP up to an HDMI cable, despite what your personal anecdotal experience is with regard to "all your customers". Do you run a Presentations 'R' Us? And again, do "all your customers" own a 2012-2015 Retina MacBook Pro? Because that's the only model of MacBook that's EVER had HDMI. None of them own an Air? Older MBP? The long-lived non-Retina MBP that sold until 2015? The 12" MacBook? I don't buy it.
Losing a TB3 port to HDMI would be a signifiant downgrade for many users, including myself. I certainly don't need or have ever needed an HDMI port, however I have used up all four of my TB3 ports on many occasion over the last year.
A corporate office environment is full of meeting rooms with a big screen, and these big screens are used all day. For one reason or another, HDMI is the preferred method to connect to that meeting room screen. Even for huge Apple clients: 3 weeks ago I made a presentation in an IBM building and guess what: 3 of my IBM guests has a Lenovo PC without dongles and 2 had a Macbook Pro with a USB-C to HDMI dongle. So don't deny the fact that there are millions and millions of meeting rooms where HDMI is the only way to connect to the meeting room screen,whether we like it or not. And this is not going change very quickly because the suppliers of these big screens like Samsung, Philips and Sony prefer to include HDMI connectors in their screens.
Assuming that the most people do not present, because it does not fit your usage pattern, is very shortsighted
No listing of all the ports and connectors? THAT is what separates a pro computer from the incapable POS’ we’ve been getting called MacBook Pro.
UPDATE: Four Thunderbolt 3 ports. That’s all. Good lord... from their web site:
” MacBook Pro is equipped with four ports, so you can do all of that from either side. Existing devices are easily connected with a cable or adapter. And Thunderbolt 3 is reversible, so no matter how you plug in, it’s always right side up.”
It’ll still be a massive shitpile of adapters on a regular desk. Hate this mentality of theirs. Is it really asking for too much to expect some actual USB, Ethernet or other kinds of ports to REDUCE the number of adapters?
It has USB. USB-C is the latest iteration of USB. You don’t need adapters, you just need the proper cables for your devices. Do you understand that? Cables. Plenty of A-to-C cables.
Are you honestly asking for an ethernet port!?
I give at lot of customer presentations and they all, without exception, give me a HDMI cable for the big screen in the meeting room. So it is not the proper cable that is the issue but the proper port on my laptop. And don't make me "educate" my customers.
Sounds like you have a special use case. Not typical for the typical pro customer, which Apple’s Craig has said is software development. So no harm in asking you to use an adapter to support your special use case of “presentations where I can’t use my own cable”. Good thing they exist, right? But still no reason to add single-use extra ports to every single customer for your specific use case.
There is nothing special about the use case of all my customers; it is the most common use case in a corporate environment. Can I use an dongle? Of course, but it is an unnecessary annoyance.
For big screen in meeting rooms, Thunderbolt does not offer any technically advantage wrt HDMI. They both can carry a 4K digital video signal at 60 Hz.
What is a a special use case on the other hand, is people needing 4 Thunderbolt connections. So a machine with 3 Thunderbold connections and 1 HDMI interface is much more practical
Again, MOST PEOPLE do not do presentations or ever hook their MBP up to an HDMI cable, despite what your personal anecdotal experience is with regard to "all your customers". Do you run a Presentations 'R' Us? And again, do "all your customers" own a 2012-2015 Retina MacBook Pro? Because that's the only model of MacBook that's EVER had HDMI. None of them own an Air? Older MBP? The long-lived non-Retina MBP that sold until 2015? The 12" MacBook? I don't buy it.
Losing a TB3 port to HDMI would be a signifiant downgrade for many users, including myself. I certainly don't need or have ever needed an HDMI port, however I have used up all four of my TB3 ports on many occasion over the last year.
A corporate office environment is full of meeting rooms with a big screen, and these big screens are used all day. For one reason or another, HDMI is the preferred method to connect to that meeting room screen. Even for huge Apple clients: 3 weeks ago I made a presentation in an IBM building and guess what: 3 of my IBM guests has a Lenovo PC without dongles and 2 had a Macbook Pro with a USB-C to HDMI dongle. So don't deny the fact that there are millions and millions of meeting rooms where HDMI is the only way to connect to the meeting room screen,whether we like it or not. And this is not going change very quickly because the suppliers of these big screens like Samsung, Philips and Sony prefer to include HDMI connectors in their screens.
Assuming that the most people do not present, because it does not fit your usage pattern, is very shortsighted
Millions and millions of conference rooms? Well, since we're just making up stuff here, I'll add that there are trillions of people who will never give any sort of presentation requiring HDMI ever. How do you like that?
No listing of all the ports and connectors? THAT is what separates a pro computer from the incapable POS’ we’ve been getting called MacBook Pro.
UPDATE: Four Thunderbolt 3 ports. That’s all. Good lord... from their web site:
” MacBook Pro is equipped with four ports, so you can do all of that from either side. Existing devices are easily connected with a cable or adapter. And Thunderbolt 3 is reversible, so no matter how you plug in, it’s always right side up.”
It’ll still be a massive shitpile of adapters on a regular desk. Hate this mentality of theirs. Is it really asking for too much to expect some actual USB, Ethernet or other kinds of ports to REDUCE the number of adapters?
It has USB. USB-C is the latest iteration of USB. You don’t need adapters, you just need the proper cables for your devices. Do you understand that? Cables. Plenty of A-to-C cables.
Are you honestly asking for an ethernet port!?
I give at lot of customer presentations and they all, without exception, give me a HDMI cable for the big screen in the meeting room. So it is not the proper cable that is the issue but the proper port on my laptop. And don't make me "educate" my customers.
Sounds like you have a special use case. Not typical for the typical pro customer, which Apple’s Craig has said is software development. So no harm in asking you to use an adapter to support your special use case of “presentations where I can’t use my own cable”. Good thing they exist, right? But still no reason to add single-use extra ports to every single customer for your specific use case.
There is nothing special about the use case of all my customers; it is the most common use case in a corporate environment. Can I use an dongle? Of course, but it is an unnecessary annoyance.
For big screen in meeting rooms, Thunderbolt does not offer any technically advantage wrt HDMI. They both can carry a 4K digital video signal at 60 Hz.
What is a a special use case on the other hand, is people needing 4 Thunderbolt connections. So a machine with 3 Thunderbold connections and 1 HDMI interface is much more practical
Again, MOST PEOPLE do not do presentations or ever hook their MBP up to an HDMI cable, despite what your personal anecdotal experience is with regard to "all your customers". Do you run a Presentations 'R' Us? And again, do "all your customers" own a 2012-2015 Retina MacBook Pro? Because that's the only model of MacBook that's EVER had HDMI. None of them own an Air? Older MBP? The long-lived non-Retina MBP that sold until 2015? The 12" MacBook? I don't buy it.
Losing a TB3 port to HDMI would be a signifiant downgrade for many users, including myself. I certainly don't need or have ever needed an HDMI port, however I have used up all four of my TB3 ports on many occasion over the last year.
Rather liberal use of "most" and "many" to suit your purposes there. I doubt you have any more insight into what "most" users need in terms of ports than anyone else.
Myself, I like that the MacBooks have Thunderbolt, it's very useful. But I've never needed to have anything plugged into more than two of them, and quite often one of them is hooked up to an adaptor for HDMI and/or USB-A (the latter to charge my Apply Watch becuase that's the cable it came with when I bought it just a little while ago). Given the sluggish uptake of USB-C, I doubt that many people have need of four of identical ports,. So my preferred scenario would be a MBP with two Thunderbolt ports, one or two USB-A ports and an HDMI (and MagSafe power if it's a wishlist, but I'm trying to be realistic). That seems to cover most bases.
The only cause for pause I'd have is that there don't seem to be (m)any USB-C hubs that split one to many USB-C ports. So if USB-C does take off, then only having two ports could end up being limiting. But given the aforementioned slow upotake, that's not a great concern right now.
If the vast majority of users desperately needed HDMI, Apple would've likely included it. Same with SD card slots. Apple knows that most people don't. I find it bizarre that anyone here thinks that the *majority* of users need HDMI ports on their MacBook.
I don't know what you mean about sluggish uptake. If you haven't rid yourself of legacy cables and devices, that's on you — but it's easily solved. I've gotten rid of most of my peripherals with outdated and slower ports. Any misc hardware things I have that didn't come with USB-C, I've replaced the cables for so they do now. The one or two things I have with permanent USB-A cords have an adapter. My monitor's adapter from Dual-DVI to mDP now has a mDP to USB-C adapter that lives on it. Right now I have power in one, my 30" ACD in another, an external 10Gbps USB 3.1 gen2 drive full of video footage I'm working with, and a little jog wheel for video scrubbing with an adapter in the fourth.
Are there people who won't buy this machine, say for a daughter going to college, because it does NOT have an HDMI port? Yes.
You're gonna send your daughter to college with a PC because of an HDMI port? What kind of monster are you? I'm calling CPS.
Well, they won’t be sending her with a flagship Dell XPS 13, because it doesn’t have HDMI either.
Or rather, to be precise, it (and all MacBooks) does have HDMI, just without a legacy connector.
Dell makes a semi-big deal about the XPS 15 having an array of these legacy ports that have been absorbed into USB-C and Thunderbolt 3. To the point where you have to wonder if most of the legacy-port diehards in this thread are marketers.
The Microsoft SurfaceBook also doesn't have an HDMI port....Go figure!
You have got to be kidding. Apple's design is simple and elegant, not to mention the eventual direction ALL computer makers will go.
VGA... I almost sprayed my coffee out of my nose when I read that.
You show that to Tim Cook and I will wait for a ruler slap.
Seriously, the idea of TB3 is to cut clutter like this. I would never use 7 out of 8 ports listed here, there goes 7 ports rendered useless and I still have to buy an extension with multiple USB ports so that I can use 3 of my USB devices plus charging into the only one USB-C available. What a nightmare!
Reading the thread I get the feeling that some commenters feel personally attacked by the idea that adding a HDMI port in 2019 would add utility to a pro class machine.
Being of the opinion that a pro machine could be better and more practical if it offered the ability to connect with commonly available technology is not the same as hating on a machine. It is possible to see the improvements and positives of a machine, to like the machine, but at the same time to also want features that would make it even better in the current tech landscape within the context of a common use case.
Yes, USB-C is the future, but HDMI / Ye Ole USB is still the present. On this point too, commenters have to jump to extremes lamenting that tech that is still in common use is kin to ancient tech; citing VGA (which ironically is usually the other option to connect projectors in fixed installations) and RS232 connections WTF?.
Perhaps its the word "pro" that gets people all upset, as being "pro" is so on trend. I guess in today's terms the moniker is accurate most everyone uses a computer in some way to make $$$ and so is indeed pro. Power User would likely be a better fit for what used to termed "pro".
At least in my experience power users tend to have the distinct need to both be on the cutting edge but also the need to easily interface with current commonly available technology especially if they operate in a IT environment.
Wanting a smooth transitioning phase between technologies is not the same as hating / being against new tech.
Of course Apple is not alone in the "fuck em" make them buy a dongle / special cable strategy with some people rightly pointing to the Dell XPS.
However, in the case of dell the XPS is "flag ship consumer" while there latitude7300 is "business" its close the same specs as the XPS but also with a mix of new and curren tech ports....... for "pros" I mean ...... power users.
Apple Insider never fails to entertain. flame away......
ohhh.. there is one last thing:
Its possible to simultaneously own a Dell, Surface Pro, Mac Book Pro and custom rig. And to enjoy each one for its strength and to lament its weaknesses. Well at least for power users.
Well said. There's a certain cohort of people here that take it as a personal (even blasphemous) insult if anyone suggests that an Apple product is not absolutely perfect. Like society, many people here have a complete and utter inability to deal with nuance.
No listing of all the ports and connectors? THAT is what separates a pro computer from the incapable POS’ we’ve been getting called MacBook Pro.
UPDATE: Four Thunderbolt 3 ports. That’s all. Good lord... from their web site:
” MacBook Pro is equipped with four ports, so you can do all of that from either side. Existing devices are easily connected with a cable or adapter. And Thunderbolt 3 is reversible, so no matter how you plug in, it’s always right side up.”
It’ll still be a massive shitpile of adapters on a regular desk. Hate this mentality of theirs. Is it really asking for too much to expect some actual USB, Ethernet or other kinds of ports to REDUCE the number of adapters?
It has USB. USB-C is the latest iteration of USB. You don’t need adapters, you just need the proper cables for your devices. Do you understand that? Cables. Plenty of A-to-C cables.
Are you honestly asking for an ethernet port!?
I give at lot of customer presentations and they all, without exception, give me a HDMI cable for the big screen in the meeting room. So it is not the proper cable that is the issue but the proper port on my laptop. And don't make me "educate" my customers.
Sounds like you have a special use case. Not typical for the typical pro customer, which Apple’s Craig has said is software development. So no harm in asking you to use an adapter to support your special use case of “presentations where I can’t use my own cable”. Good thing they exist, right? But still no reason to add single-use extra ports to every single customer for your specific use case.
There is nothing special about the use case of all my customers; it is the most common use case in a corporate environment. Can I use an dongle? Of course, but it is an unnecessary annoyance.
For big screen in meeting rooms, Thunderbolt does not offer any technically advantage wrt HDMI. They both can carry a 4K digital video signal at 60 Hz.
What is a a special use case on the other hand, is people needing 4 Thunderbolt connections. So a machine with 3 Thunderbold connections and 1 HDMI interface is much more practical
Again, MOST PEOPLE do not do presentations or ever hook their MBP up to an HDMI cable, despite what your personal anecdotal experience is with regard to "all your customers". Do you run a Presentations 'R' Us? And again, do "all your customers" own a 2012-2015 Retina MacBook Pro? Because that's the only model of MacBook that's EVER had HDMI. None of them own an Air? Older MBP? The long-lived non-Retina MBP that sold until 2015? The 12" MacBook? I don't buy it.
Losing a TB3 port to HDMI would be a signifiant downgrade for many users, including myself. I certainly don't need or have ever needed an HDMI port, however I have used up all four of my TB3 ports on many occasion over the last year.
A corporate office environment is full of meeting rooms with a big screen, and these big screens are used all day. For one reason or another, HDMI is the preferred method to connect to that meeting room screen. Even for huge Apple clients: 3 weeks ago I made a presentation in an IBM building and guess what: 3 of my IBM guests has a Lenovo PC without dongles and 2 had a Macbook Pro with a USB-C to HDMI dongle. So don't deny the fact that there are millions and millions of meeting rooms where HDMI is the only way to connect to the meeting room screen,whether we like it or not. And this is not going change very quickly because the suppliers of these big screens like Samsung, Philips and Sony prefer to include HDMI connectors in their screens.
Assuming that the most people do not present, because it does not fit your usage pattern, is very shortsighted
Millions and millions of conference rooms? Well, since we're just making up stuff here, I'll add that there are trillions of people who will never give any sort of presentation requiring HDMI ever. How do you like that?
No listing of all the ports and connectors? THAT is what separates a pro computer from the incapable POS’ we’ve been getting called MacBook Pro.
UPDATE: Four Thunderbolt 3 ports. That’s all. Good lord... from their web site:
” MacBook Pro is equipped with four ports, so you can do all of that from either side. Existing devices are easily connected with a cable or adapter. And Thunderbolt 3 is reversible, so no matter how you plug in, it’s always right side up.”
It’ll still be a massive shitpile of adapters on a regular desk. Hate this mentality of theirs. Is it really asking for too much to expect some actual USB, Ethernet or other kinds of ports to REDUCE the number of adapters?
It has USB. USB-C is the latest iteration of USB. You don’t need adapters, you just need the proper cables for your devices. Do you understand that? Cables. Plenty of A-to-C cables.
Are you honestly asking for an ethernet port!?
I give at lot of customer presentations and they all, without exception, give me a HDMI cable for the big screen in the meeting room. So it is not the proper cable that is the issue but the proper port on my laptop. And don't make me "educate" my customers.
Sounds like you have a special use case. Not typical for the typical pro customer, which Apple’s Craig has said is software development. So no harm in asking you to use an adapter to support your special use case of “presentations where I can’t use my own cable”. Good thing they exist, right? But still no reason to add single-use extra ports to every single customer for your specific use case.
There is nothing special about the use case of all my customers; it is the most common use case in a corporate environment. Can I use an dongle? Of course, but it is an unnecessary annoyance.
For big screen in meeting rooms, Thunderbolt does not offer any technically advantage wrt HDMI. They both can carry a 4K digital video signal at 60 Hz.
What is a a special use case on the other hand, is people needing 4 Thunderbolt connections. So a machine with 3 Thunderbold connections and 1 HDMI interface is much more practical
Again, MOST PEOPLE do not do presentations or ever hook their MBP up to an HDMI cable, despite what your personal anecdotal experience is with regard to "all your customers". Do you run a Presentations 'R' Us? And again, do "all your customers" own a 2012-2015 Retina MacBook Pro? Because that's the only model of MacBook that's EVER had HDMI. None of them own an Air? Older MBP? The long-lived non-Retina MBP that sold until 2015? The 12" MacBook? I don't buy it.
Losing a TB3 port to HDMI would be a signifiant downgrade for many users, including myself. I certainly don't need or have ever needed an HDMI port, however I have used up all four of my TB3 ports on many occasion over the last year.
Rather liberal use of "most" and "many" to suit your purposes there. I doubt you have any more insight into what "most" users need in terms of ports than anyone else.
Myself, I like that the MacBooks have Thunderbolt, it's very useful. But I've never needed to have anything plugged into more than two of them, and quite often one of them is hooked up to an adaptor for HDMI and/or USB-A (the latter to charge my Apply Watch becuase that's the cable it came with when I bought it just a little while ago). Given the sluggish uptake of USB-C, I doubt that many people have need of four of identical ports,. So my preferred scenario would be a MBP with two Thunderbolt ports, one or two USB-A ports and an HDMI (and MagSafe power if it's a wishlist, but I'm trying to be realistic). That seems to cover most bases.
The only cause for pause I'd have is that there don't seem to be (m)any USB-C hubs that split one to many USB-C ports. So if USB-C does take off, then only having two ports could end up being limiting. But given the aforementioned slow upotake, that's not a great concern right now.
If the vast majority of users desperately needed HDMI, Apple would've likely included it. Same with SD card slots. Apple knows that most people don't. I find it bizarre that anyone here thinks that the *majority* of users need HDMI ports on their MacBook.
I don't know what you mean about sluggish uptake. If you haven't rid yourself of legacy cables and devices, that's on you — but it's easily solved. I've gotten rid of most of my peripherals with outdated and slower ports. Any misc hardware things I have that didn't come with USB-C, I've replaced the cables for so they do now. The one or two things I have with permanent USB-A cords have an adapter. My monitor's adapter from Dual-DVI to mDP now has a mDP to USB-C adapter that lives on it. Right now I have power in one, my 30" ACD in another, an external 10Gbps USB 3.1 gen2 drive full of video footage I'm working with, and a little jog wheel for video scrubbing with an adapter in the fourth.
HDMI is the standard for connecting a device to a monitor or television. There are alternatives available, but HDMI is the most ubiquitous standard out there, and it's modern and in active development. Apple include it on other current devices that they sell. Maybe the majority don't need it, but the idea that the majority need 4 thunderbolt ports is equally bizarre.
Not sure how you can justify the passive agressive "thats on you" regarding replacing cables and devices, when you yourself are using old devices and a truckload of adaptors, exactly the same as I am. Like most people I don't readily appreciate having to pay to replace things that work fine just because Apple have decided that a Thunderbolt only future is easiest on them.
Reading the thread I get the feeling that some commenters feel personally attacked by the idea that adding a HDMI port in 2019 would add utility to a pro class machine.
Being of the opinion that a pro machine could be better and more practical if it offered the ability to connect with commonly available technology is not the same as hating on a machine. It is possible to see the improvements and positives of a machine, to like the machine, but at the same time to also want features that would make it even better in the current tech landscape within the context of a common use case.
Yes, USB-C is the future, but HDMI / Ye Ole USB is still the present. On this point too, commenters have to jump to extremes lamenting that tech that is still in common use is kin to ancient tech; citing VGA (which ironically is usually the other option to connect projectors in fixed installations) and RS232 connections WTF?.
Perhaps its the word "pro" that gets people all upset, as being "pro" is so on trend. I guess in today's terms the moniker is accurate most everyone uses a computer in some way to make $$$ and so is indeed pro. Power User would likely be a better fit for what used to termed "pro".
At least in my experience power users tend to have the distinct need to both be on the cutting edge but also the need to easily interface with current commonly available technology especially if they operate in a IT environment.
Wanting a smooth transitioning phase between technologies is not the same as hating / being against new tech.
Of course Apple is not alone in the "fuck em" make them buy a dongle / special cable strategy with some people rightly pointing to the Dell XPS.
However, in the case of dell the XPS is "flag ship consumer" while there latitude7300 is "business" its close the same specs as the XPS but also with a mix of new and curren tech ports....... for "pros" I mean ...... power users.
Apple Insider never fails to entertain. flame away......
ohhh.. there is one last thing:
Its possible to simultaneously own a Dell, Surface Pro, Mac Book Pro and custom rig. And to enjoy each one for its strength and to lament its weaknesses. Well at least for power users.
Well said. There's a certain cohort of people here that take it as a personal (even blasphemous) insult if anyone suggests that an Apple product is not absolutely perfect. Like society, many people here have a complete and utter inability to deal with nuance.
Well, there are some people here like that, just as there are people here who state that almost everything Apple does is bad or wrong. So they balance out.
but Apple sells 20 million computers a year. How many actually need some of these ports, or care that they’re gone, and don’t mind using an adapter or two, if required?
I’d bet that the vast majority either don’t need them, or don’t care that the physical port is different, thereby needing an adapter. Yup, there are thousands of people giving presentations that may need them. I’ll even grant possibly tens of thousands. Still, an infinitesimal percentage. Yup, those people may get ticked. No doubt.
HDMI is the standard for connecting a device to a monitor or television.
You're seeing a lot of MBPs hooked up to TVs are you? That's a world I don't want to live in. I still see a lot more projectors with VGA, so based on your stupid argument Apple should keep VGA in their Macs. If I was as selfish as you I'd be complaining that they don't include serial ports since that's the one thing I'd have to spend some money and considerable effort to get working on my MBP with an adapter and drivers.
There are alternatives available, but HDMI is the most ubiquitous standard out there...
No it's not. USB is and only in regards to physical port data protocol standards, which is exactly what you get with all those wonderful USB-C ports on Macs, Windows, iPads, and Android devices.
...and it's modern and in active development.
And USB-C isn't? Good one!
Apple include it on other current devices that they sell.
What other laptops include it? In the history of the Mac notebooks they've hardly ever included it. They used to include a bunch of dongle with Mac which was such a waste as we moved through a different video out port interface standard every couple years. Having TB3 which can do 40 Gibps for video along with peripherals and power through a single cable is what people who actually care about technology had hoped for decades would eventually come to fruition.
Maybe the majority don't need it, but the idea that the majority need 4 thunderbolt ports is equally bizarre.
1) Maybe? You really don't know if the majority of people need to connect to a TV via HDMI? Now you're just having a laugh. And wired projectors are outmoded. Do you think that's what Apple does, or do you think they have an Apple TV connected and then using AirPlay to connect using the built-in Conference Room option. I think the answer is
2) Since every port can be dozen or more different ports, including being able to switch your power to whatever size works best for a particular mobile set up, then 4 is about right. I'd prefer 6 but 2 would be too few for my needs.
Not sure how you can justify the passive agressive "thats on you" regarding replacing cables and devices, when you yourself are using old devices and a truckload of adaptors, exactly the same as I am. Like most people I don't readily appreciate having to pay to replace things that work fine just because Apple have decided that a Thunderbolt only future is easiest on them.
If you don't like 2019 then get an old Mac or use your old Mac. No one is forcing you to get the latest model and yet all you do is bitch when Apple updates something. Either buy it or move the fuck on, there's no reason to complain that a company chooses to make products that don't suit your needs. I'm sticking with my current MBP because the new one—as great it is—doesn't suit enough of my needs at the moment. That's as complex as it needs to be.
Comments
If that SD card slot is useful to most people with a camera, because most cameras have SD, then why not add it? Does it mean you're unable to use that Mac because it has a SD card slot? Does it somehow disadvantage you? It doesn't mean that in special cases like yours where people have a CF card you can't use one of your beloved adapters. It's very rare to find a SD card that doesn't work in a SD slot.
an adapter is something that adapts two, or more, incompatible parts. The type of parts don’t matter. There are different layers in ports. The one we’re concerned with here is the physical layer, which is the one we see. It doesn’t matter if the rest of the layers match, transport protocol, etc. what matters is whether the ports will connect. If the physical layer is different, even if everything else is the same, then you need to adapt that physical layer. In other words, you need an adapter, no matter what you want to call it.
i get the problem some are having with using the word adapter. It seems to be a dirty word. But, yes, every cable with one physical port that’s different to another, is an adapter. So a FireWire cable that has a male on one end, and a female on the other for the purpose of stringing two shorter cables together is indeed an adapter. It may not be called that, but that is what it is. The same thing for a USB C on one end and hdmi on the other. It doesn’t matter if it’s 3” long, or 25’ long. The only difference is that the short one is usually just called an adapter, and the long one, an adapter cable, accounting for the difference in length.
seriously, the semantics don’t matter. If you’re going somewhere to give a talk, and you need to connect, you’re an idiot if you don’t carry your own cables for at least a couple of different ports. You’d be surprised at how many venues have bad cables, or none at all, particularly the smaller ones. I’ve seen situations where they say;”Usually people bring their own.” Too bad Radio Shack is done for it. Maybe Staples.
I will very definitely deny that there are “millions and millions of these meeting rooms”. But seriously, that means nothing. We’re still talking about an adapter that costs maybe $20. I don’t really care about those who complain. That’s just petty. Nobody travels with just their computer. They have needed accessories as well. Chargers, charging cables, earphones or buds, a couple of cables, and adapters. It’s all part of the kit for a responsible professional. If someone is complaining they don’t want the adapter, I would just give them the middle finger, and tell them to suck it up.
People buy Macs or PCs because they want Macs or PCs, usually because of the kind of work they do. I doubt very much that anyone other than a handful of chronic complainers are going to switch because of a few easily gotten, and cheap, adapters. If they do, you have to wonder about their ability to think critically.
Overnight? It's been over three years for TB3 and over four for USB-C as a whole. No overnight about it, well over 1,000 of them.
Where are CF cards being used nowadays?
Heal from the trauma and move on.
Usually if someone forgets something they just remember to bring it next time, not demand that the computer be redesigned.
I forgot my iphone today, not going to ask for a redesign.
Having the usb-c thunderbolt 3 ports offers flexibility because they can handle almost anything, even if it may need an adapter for some particular things (cf card, sd card, usb-a, displayport, hdmi, cdrom drive, etc) to do it.
guys like you think backwards. So let’s just add every port that still exists because they won’t bother you? What kind of thinking is that? I see no point to having a slot that will be obsolete far sooner than the rest of the computer. And since this is a PROFESSIONAL machine, old SD cards are worthless. You may not know it, but pros buy the card their camera fits, which isn’t an old, slow card. Newer cameras don’t use five year old card types.
if you want to make the case for this in a consumer level machine, you’ve got a better case for it.
How special? A port is a port. Not many of us like to string things on one port, even though we can.
so one port for an external drive. One for a network connection. One to download pics from a camera. Maybe a large external monitor.
there are plenty of concurrent uses for multipurpose ports. None of them special.
If the vast majority of users desperately needed HDMI, Apple would've likely included it. Same with SD card slots. Apple knows that most people don't. I find it bizarre that anyone here thinks that the *majority* of users need HDMI ports on their MacBook.
I don't know what you mean about sluggish uptake. If you haven't rid yourself of legacy cables and devices, that's on you — but it's easily solved. I've gotten rid of most of my peripherals with outdated and slower ports. Any misc hardware things I have that didn't come with USB-C, I've replaced the cables for so they do now. The one or two things I have with permanent USB-A cords have an adapter. My monitor's adapter from Dual-DVI to mDP now has a mDP to USB-C adapter that lives on it. Right now I have power in one, my 30" ACD in another, an external 10Gbps USB 3.1 gen2 drive full of video footage I'm working with, and a little jog wheel for video scrubbing with an adapter in the fourth.
Seriously, the idea of TB3 is to cut clutter like this. I would never use 7 out of 8 ports listed here, there goes 7 ports rendered useless and I still have to buy an extension with multiple USB ports so that I can use 3 of my USB devices plus charging into the only one USB-C available. What a nightmare!
Seems like an excellent product.
Not sure how you can justify the passive agressive "thats on you" regarding replacing cables and devices, when you yourself are using old devices and a truckload of adaptors, exactly the same as I am. Like most people I don't readily appreciate having to pay to replace things that work fine just because Apple have decided that a Thunderbolt only future is easiest on them.
but Apple sells 20 million computers a year. How many actually need some of these ports, or care that they’re gone, and don’t mind using an adapter or two, if required?
I’d bet that the vast majority either don’t need them, or don’t care that the physical port is different, thereby needing an adapter. Yup, there are thousands of people giving presentations that may need them. I’ll even grant possibly tens of thousands. Still, an infinitesimal percentage. Yup, those people may get ticked. No doubt.
No it's not. USB is and only in regards to physical port data protocol standards, which is exactly what you get with all those wonderful USB-C ports on Macs, Windows, iPads, and Android devices.
And USB-C isn't? Good one!
Apple include it on other current devices that they sell.
What other laptops include it? In the history of the Mac notebooks they've hardly ever included it. They used to include a bunch of dongle with Mac which was such a waste as we moved through a different video out port interface standard every couple years. Having TB3 which can do 40 Gibps for video along with peripherals and power through a single cable is what people who actually care about technology had hoped for decades would eventually come to fruition.
1) Maybe? You really don't know if the majority of people need to connect to a TV via HDMI? Now you're just having a laugh. And wired projectors are outmoded. Do you think that's what Apple does, or do you think they have an Apple TV connected and then using AirPlay to connect using the built-in Conference Room option. I think the answer is
2) Since every port can be dozen or more different ports, including being able to switch your power to whatever size works best for a particular mobile set up, then 4 is about right. I'd prefer 6 but 2 would be too few for my needs.
If you don't like 2019 then get an old Mac or use your old Mac. No one is forcing you to get the latest model and yet all you do is bitch when Apple updates something. Either buy it or move the fuck on, there's no reason to complain that a company chooses to make products that don't suit your needs. I'm sticking with my current MBP because the new one—as great it is—doesn't suit enough of my needs at the moment. That's as complex as it needs to be.