this was at MacWhisper as you probally already knew:
I don't think I believe it. But in a month or so we'll see. And then we can either mark MacWhispers up as the best ever, or slag them off as another MOSR.
pb3500 aka kanga aka (original) powerbook G3 with a 250Mhz G3
so i don't see why they won't do it, if they could?
I've never heard of a PB3500, do you have some reference on it? As far as I remember the cases for the 3400 and the PBG3 were similar (as was the 1400 and 5300), but subtley different.
I think that Apple's had in excess of 20 PowerBook models, that you can come up with one example (unverified) where the case wasn't changed speaks volumes in itself.
I think you also have to bear in mind that Apple has been using case revisions to distinguish models - pretty much since the B&W G3 (ie the same basic case has been in use since th beginning of 1999, but there have been three distinctive colours and three distinctive designs in that period (B&W/Graphite/Silver Original/Cyclops/Windtunnel to produce four disticnt cases).
Given that the 970 is going to be such a big deal I think it's obvious that any PowerBook models will have new cases (I don't think many people believe that 970-based towers will not have new cases).
The weight of cricumstancial and historical evidence is against a 970 PB coming out in any case that is in circulation today.
See the "Macbidouille/970 in May" thread in FH (the third page I believe) for links to prove Apple did this with the very first PowerBook G3 -- it was in the exact case as the then-quite-new PowerBook 3400.
And...as you'll see in the thread...it came out BEFORE the PowerMac G3. We'll see; it doesn't really matter anyway. We're getting them before Christmas I'm sure. 8)
I've never heard of a PB3500, do you have some reference on it? As far as I remember the cases for the 3400 and the PBG3 were similar (as was the 1400 and 5300), but subtley different.
well, the 1400 and 5300 where completely different exept for the processor, different story the pb3500 was a name of the powerbook G3
Quote:
I think that Apple's had in excess of 20 PowerBook models, that you can come up with one example (unverified) where the case wasn't changed speaks volumes in itself.
but there were less case changes than powerbook models so i could came op with more, because a processor upgrade won't count and a skip from a 68020 to a 68030 processor won't be enough iyho.
Quote:
I think you also have to bear in mind that Apple has been using case revisions to distinguish models - pretty much since the B&W G3 (ie the same basic case has been in use since th beginning of 1999, but there have been three distinctive colours and three distinctive designs in that period (B&W/Graphite/Silver Original/Cyclops/Windtunnel to produce four disticnt cases).
actually i was thinking of the powermac 8100/8500/9500 which had different processors (601/604) and same housing. or the 7500/7600/7300/G3 desktops each with a different processor but same housing (601/604/604e/G3)
Quote:
Given that the 970 is going to be such a big deal I think it's obvious that any PowerBook models will have new cases (I don't think many people believe that 970-based towers will not have new cases).
wrong about pb and right about pm
Quote:
The weight of cricumstancial and historical evidence is against a 970 PB coming out in any case that is in circulation today.
You're free to believe whatever you like though.
history is something for people, people always make the same misstakes etc. etc. it's cyclical. that's something that has nothing to do with case design whatsoever. because doing bussiness is something different than being human. doing bussiness is something about oppertunities and taking oppertunities so if apple has the processor and those beautifull looking powerbooks...
Gar, I realy don't know what you're trying to base your argument on. The 5300/1400/3400 all had different cases, I think I already said that, but they were all very similar and probably had many common parts.
I've no idea why you're going on about some old beige Macs all having the same cases, when my point was that since the intro of the B&W in 1999 that change of case style has clearly gone with revisions to towers. As it has with revisions to PowerBooks/iBooks: WallStreet/Bronze/tolet seat/ice/Ti/aluminium.
Apple is clearly using style changes as a marketing tool. You don't really want to argue with that do you?
So based on that, I'd say that any 970 PB will get a new case.
For anyon who wants to rely on MacBidouille as an information source, please note that they are saying that 970s suitable for PowerBooks will be available by the end of the year: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...threadid=24217
You'll see here that Lowendmac is wrong about the introduction of G3, both the descktops and the PowerBooks were announced 10 November 1997.
You'll also note the the G3 was designed as a low-power chip right from the start - so it should be no surprise that they were able to do a simultaneous announcement. On the other hand leaks about the 970 don't indicate a low-power chip and point towards a reduction in process size in about six months time.
Someone in this thread over at MacRumors claims to have seen the new 15-inch this weekend in a coffee shop being used by a guy with an Apple polo shirt on...
Gar, I realy don't know what you're trying to base your argument on. The 5300/1400/3400 all had different cases, I think I already said that, but they were all very similar and probably had many common parts.
read what i wrote, for instance
and yes, style changes are marketing tool, your right. i won't argue that. but i doubt it, they will use that always as a marketing tool since they have already a perfect case design and can market it with a superior chip.
ie there is nothing wrong with the 12" and 17" powerbook as they are, just a new chip and mobo.
we will see what will happen.
i hope for a surprice, and am, as always, chronical optimistic
Judging realistically here, I am pretty well content to conclude that we will not see 970s in PowerBooks until Apple exhausts the current supply of G4s being used currently. I.E., we will have extremely Merry Christmases this year. But I just don't see the 970 popping up, even in a redesigned 15" AlBook. The new case will get a G4 first then (having been set up for the 970) the new proc will make its appearance near the end of October or November, with all new models IN STOCK, ready to light up many a folk's holiday season.
I just have the feeling that the Power Macs will have their day first
But if Steve wants to surprise us all, then so be it. Let the reason for no new TiBook be that it's the killer it could be with a 970 inside.
March 2004 (less sure): First presentation of the PPC980, mobile version of the PPC970, probably used to replace PowerBook's G4.
hmmm, i think if this is true, i have to apologize to [edit] clive.
if it turns out he was right about his expectations of apple's portable line till mwsf 2004 (no ibook G4 and no powerbook 970 in 2003) he will get his 10 euro's.
hmmm, i think if this is true, i have to apologize to vince.
if it turns out he was right about his expectations of apple's portable line till mwsf 2004 (no ibook G4 and no powerbook 970 in 2003) he will get his 10 euro's.
i can wait...
Hey, who's Vince, that's my EUR:10 you're chucking around!
Be realistic about it - we know from experience that PowerBooks need different chips to towers, due to power consumption and heat. I'm not sure amout the first generation G3, they may have had the PPC750 in them, same as the desktops.
If we're being realistic we know that the 970 PBs are going to arrive in 2004, being a little more pessimistic I think they'll not arrive at MWSF - they're still up to a year away.
And that'll be time enough to have a new case. And they will have a new case because marketing will demand it.
If you look back you'll see that the B&W El Capitan only lasted eight months - so it's more than feasible that the aluminium cases could get a revision, or be replaced altogether.
What I think is more likely to happen is: 15" rolled out as top of the line in Jan-March 2004 - with a new case (it won't happen before then - my guess) - the 12" will carry on much as before, perhaps a little cheaper, the 17" will stay the same but with quite a price cut.
You'll then have two G4 PB, and a 970 - but the 970 is going to be priced quite a bit higher to keep down demand and keep selling the G4s. Then, around six months later (MWNY04?) you get 970s across the line for 12/15/17, and later still perhaps G4-based iBooks.
The PowerBooks use the same G4 as the towers. The 1Ghz G4 is already very hot! A 1.2Ghz 970 will not use any more Power or be any hotter. The 15" needs an update. The 970 is about ready. Why not go ahead and update the PowerBook to the 970?????? The reason it took the first G4 PowerBook so long to come out is because apple had to perfect the heat problems. They have done that now using metal cases etc. Everyone seems to keep saying no PowerBook 970 until next year, but no one can give me a good reason why. Apple likes to show off and nothing would be more showy than to be the first to release a 64bit laptop!
Do they? I always thought they were different chips.
Quote:
Originally posted by Algol
The 1Ghz G4 is already very hot!
That's the point, my 12" is unusable in closed lid mode - but that could be a fault with it, rather than the whole run. I think the 970 will run hotter, so Apple hasn't solved the heat problem. Also, if they are going to stick the 970 in the PB why is there now mention of a 980 for mobile usage?
Who are the other customers for *mobile* usage?
Quote:
Originally posted by Algol
Everyone seems to keep saying no PowerBook 970 until next year, but no one can give me a good reason why.
I don't think anyone's given you a good reason why the 970 would be released this year in a Mac either.
If it has the 970 in it.. it would be cool if they released it in a super shiny metal.. I believe there was a pic floating around of one called the mirror lap top if anyone can find it... ofcourse many would complain about fingerprints but would be more annoying would be my girlfriend bugging me to let her use it as a make up mirror...
Do they? I always thought they were different chips.
At least as recently as the previous-generation PowerBooks, they definitely were different chips. The 667/800 chips were lower-voltage and lower-wattage, 1.3V vs 1.6V IIRC and about two-thirds the consumption. I'm not sure about the current line, but I'm sure if Moto were shipping a low-voltage version of the 1.25, we'd have seen that in the 17-inch PowerBook. I suspect the 1GHz is still the fastest low-power G4 available.
At least as recently as the previous-generation PowerBooks, they definitely were different chips.
Thanks Bruno, I think that's still the case - otherwise, as you indicate, we'd be seeing 1.2/1.4GHz chips in PowerBooks. I can't find any real reference on this though, so if someone wants to point us all in the right direction?
No update happened this week when people thought it might....inclines me to wonder what could await us later this month or in June. I think if Apple indeed had 1.2 GHz 970s in stock that ran on par (or lower) in terms of heat with the current 1GHz 7450, then they'd do it. Sure, there's a 90nm process chip coming along soon, but get going! With IBM we may have to accustom ourselves to more regular upgrades, meaning that the whole "waiting game" for the "absolute best" is silly.
The non-appearance of the 15"-er, though, tells me Apple's going in an exciting direction.
Comments
Originally posted by gar
this was at MacWhisper as you probally already knew:
I don't think I believe it. But in a month or so we'll see. And then we can either mark MacWhispers up as the best ever, or slag them off as another MOSR.
Originally posted by hasapi
Further information from MacBidoulle suggests we may indeed see a 970 PB 15.4 and very quickly see both the 12/17 updated to this processor.
This isn't going to happen. The 12" G4 runs hot enough already, with a 970 you're going to buring yourself on it.
I also don't believe Apple has ever put a chip upgrade in a PowerBook with the same case design as the earlier model.
Originally posted by Clive
This isn't going to happen. The 12" G4 runs hot enough already, with a 970 you're going to buring yourself on it.
I also don't believe Apple has ever put a chip upgrade in a PowerBook with the same case design as the earlier model.
yes they did:
pb3400 with a 180-240 Mhz ppc 603e processor
pb3500 aka kanga aka (original) powerbook G3 with a 250Mhz G3
so i don't see why they won't do it, if they could?
Originally posted by gar
yes they did:
pb3400 with a 180-240 Mhz ppc 603e processor
pb3500 aka kanga aka (original) powerbook G3 with a 250Mhz G3
so i don't see why they won't do it, if they could?
I've never heard of a PB3500, do you have some reference on it? As far as I remember the cases for the 3400 and the PBG3 were similar (as was the 1400 and 5300), but subtley different.
I think that Apple's had in excess of 20 PowerBook models, that you can come up with one example (unverified) where the case wasn't changed speaks volumes in itself.
I think you also have to bear in mind that Apple has been using case revisions to distinguish models - pretty much since the B&W G3 (ie the same basic case has been in use since th beginning of 1999, but there have been three distinctive colours and three distinctive designs in that period (B&W/Graphite/Silver Original/Cyclops/Windtunnel to produce four disticnt cases).
Given that the 970 is going to be such a big deal I think it's obvious that any PowerBook models will have new cases (I don't think many people believe that 970-based towers will not have new cases).
The weight of cricumstancial and historical evidence is against a 970 PB coming out in any case that is in circulation today.
You're free to believe whatever you like though.
See the "Macbidouille/970 in May" thread in FH (the third page I believe) for links to prove Apple did this with the very first PowerBook G3 -- it was in the exact case as the then-quite-new PowerBook 3400.
And...as you'll see in the thread...it came out BEFORE the PowerMac G3. We'll see; it doesn't really matter anyway. We're getting them before Christmas I'm sure. 8)
Originally posted by Clive
I've never heard of a PB3500, do you have some reference on it? As far as I remember the cases for the 3400 and the PBG3 were similar (as was the 1400 and 5300), but subtley different.
well, the 1400 and 5300 where completely different exept for the processor, different story the pb3500 was a name of the powerbook G3
I think that Apple's had in excess of 20 PowerBook models, that you can come up with one example (unverified) where the case wasn't changed speaks volumes in itself.
but there were less case changes than powerbook models so i could came op with more, because a processor upgrade won't count and a skip from a 68020 to a 68030 processor won't be enough iyho.
I think you also have to bear in mind that Apple has been using case revisions to distinguish models - pretty much since the B&W G3 (ie the same basic case has been in use since th beginning of 1999, but there have been three distinctive colours and three distinctive designs in that period (B&W/Graphite/Silver Original/Cyclops/Windtunnel to produce four disticnt cases).
actually i was thinking of the powermac 8100/8500/9500 which had different processors (601/604) and same housing. or the 7500/7600/7300/G3 desktops each with a different processor but same housing (601/604/604e/G3)
Given that the 970 is going to be such a big deal I think it's obvious that any PowerBook models will have new cases (I don't think many people believe that 970-based towers will not have new cases).
wrong about pb and right about pm
The weight of cricumstancial and historical evidence is against a 970 PB coming out in any case that is in circulation today.
You're free to believe whatever you like though.
history is something for people, people always make the same misstakes etc. etc. it's cyclical. that's something that has nothing to do with case design whatsoever. because doing bussiness is something different than being human. doing bussiness is something about oppertunities and taking oppertunities so if apple has the processor and those beautifull looking powerbooks...
why won't they use them both
I've no idea why you're going on about some old beige Macs all having the same cases, when my point was that since the intro of the B&W in 1999 that change of case style has clearly gone with revisions to towers. As it has with revisions to PowerBooks/iBooks: WallStreet/Bronze/tolet seat/ice/Ti/aluminium.
Apple is clearly using style changes as a marketing tool. You don't really want to argue with that do you?
So based on that, I'd say that any 970 PB will get a new case.
For anyon who wants to rely on MacBidouille as an information source, please note that they are saying that 970s suitable for PowerBooks will be available by the end of the year: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...threadid=24217
Rather than rely on third-party sites for factual information, why not go to the source: http://www.apple.com/pr/library/1997/november.html
You'll see here that Lowendmac is wrong about the introduction of G3, both the descktops and the PowerBooks were announced 10 November 1997.
You'll also note the the G3 was designed as a low-power chip right from the start - so it should be no surprise that they were able to do a simultaneous announcement. On the other hand leaks about the 970 don't indicate a low-power chip and point towards a reduction in process size in about six months time.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...5&pagenumber=2
Originally posted by Clive
Gar, I realy don't know what you're trying to base your argument on. The 5300/1400/3400 all had different cases, I think I already said that, but they were all very similar and probably had many common parts.
read what i wrote, for instance
and yes, style changes are marketing tool, your right. i won't argue that. but i doubt it, they will use that always as a marketing tool since they have already a perfect case design and can market it with a superior chip.
ie there is nothing wrong with the 12" and 17" powerbook as they are, just a new chip and mobo.
we will see what will happen.
i hope for a surprice, and am, as always, chronical optimistic
I just have the feeling that the Power Macs will have their day first
But if Steve wants to surprise us all, then so be it. Let the reason for no new TiBook be that it's the killer it could be with a 970 inside.
March 2004 (less sure): First presentation of the PPC980, mobile version of the PPC970, probably used to replace PowerBook's G4.
hmmm, i think if this is true, i have to apologize to [edit] clive.
if it turns out he was right about his expectations of apple's portable line till mwsf 2004 (no ibook G4 and no powerbook 970 in 2003) he will get his 10 euro's.
i can wait...
Originally posted by gar
hmmm, i think if this is true, i have to apologize to vince.
if it turns out he was right about his expectations of apple's portable line till mwsf 2004 (no ibook G4 and no powerbook 970 in 2003) he will get his 10 euro's.
i can wait...
Hey, who's Vince, that's my EUR:10 you're chucking around!
Be realistic about it - we know from experience that PowerBooks need different chips to towers, due to power consumption and heat. I'm not sure amout the first generation G3, they may have had the PPC750 in them, same as the desktops.
If we're being realistic we know that the 970 PBs are going to arrive in 2004, being a little more pessimistic I think they'll not arrive at MWSF - they're still up to a year away.
And that'll be time enough to have a new case. And they will have a new case because marketing will demand it.
If you look back you'll see that the B&W El Capitan only lasted eight months - so it's more than feasible that the aluminium cases could get a revision, or be replaced altogether.
What I think is more likely to happen is: 15" rolled out as top of the line in Jan-March 2004 - with a new case (it won't happen before then - my guess) - the 12" will carry on much as before, perhaps a little cheaper, the 17" will stay the same but with quite a price cut.
You'll then have two G4 PB, and a 970 - but the 970 is going to be priced quite a bit higher to keep down demand and keep selling the G4s. Then, around six months later (MWNY04?) you get 970s across the line for 12/15/17, and later still perhaps G4-based iBooks.
Originally posted by Clive
Hey, who's Vince, that's my EUR:10 you're chucking around!
sorry, It's yours if you're right and i'm not.
am a little offline today.
read to much these days and mixed up some names, my bad.
(and still i think your a little pessimistic, but we'll see)
Originally posted by Algol
The PowerBooks use the same G4 as the towers.
Do they? I always thought they were different chips.
Originally posted by Algol
The 1Ghz G4 is already very hot!
That's the point, my 12" is unusable in closed lid mode - but that could be a fault with it, rather than the whole run. I think the 970 will run hotter, so Apple hasn't solved the heat problem. Also, if they are going to stick the 970 in the PB why is there now mention of a 980 for mobile usage?
Who are the other customers for *mobile* usage?
Originally posted by Algol
Everyone seems to keep saying no PowerBook 970 until next year, but no one can give me a good reason why.
I don't think anyone's given you a good reason why the 970 would be released this year in a Mac either.
Originally posted by Algol
Apple likes to show off and nothing would be more showy than to be the first to release a 64bit laptop!
"Year of the laptop"?
Originally posted by Clive
Do they? I always thought they were different chips.
At least as recently as the previous-generation PowerBooks, they definitely were different chips. The 667/800 chips were lower-voltage and lower-wattage, 1.3V vs 1.6V IIRC and about two-thirds the consumption. I'm not sure about the current line, but I'm sure if Moto were shipping a low-voltage version of the 1.25, we'd have seen that in the 17-inch PowerBook. I suspect the 1GHz is still the fastest low-power G4 available.
Originally posted by BrunoBruin
At least as recently as the previous-generation PowerBooks, they definitely were different chips.
Thanks Bruno, I think that's still the case - otherwise, as you indicate, we'd be seeing 1.2/1.4GHz chips in PowerBooks. I can't find any real reference on this though, so if someone wants to point us all in the right direction?
The non-appearance of the 15"-er, though, tells me Apple's going in an exciting direction.