LOL, Producer, good one. Got me there. Now der Kopf's reference makes sense. Got a question for you all though. here we are obviously lusting after the 970. We all want it in the Power Book. What about the graphics card? We all know that Quartz Extreme uses the graphics card to free up CPU usage. Any idea on what Apple will be dropping into the 15.4"? Nvidia says they are going to have a new card out soon that will go into the new XBox. Will Apple use the ATI 9600 or will we get the lesser performing Nvidia card? Just figured I'd ask. The discussion should include everything inside the 15 Albook, not just the 970. 8)
I'm thinking the later we go w/o seeing an update to the mid-range PowerBook only increases the liklihood it will indeed have 970 in it upon the next revision.
I keep beating this drum too. My suspicion is that the 1GHz iMac uses the same low-power chip variant as the PowerBooks, and that the faster chips are just too hot.
But here's a thought. If the 970 debuted in the PowerBooks at a comparable clock speed -- 1GHz or 1.2, tops -- would it be so bad if the 15 had that chip until the 17 is revised? What I mean is, for the majority of consumers, would a 1GHz G4 and a 1.25GHz 970 mean that much? To us, yes, but remember, most people (I mean potential switchers as well as less-in-the-know Mac customers) are still looking at speed. Peecee folks, most of them, anyway, don't know the difference between PIII and PIV, except for the general feeling that 4 must be better than 3 because it's one more, and are clueless about the difference between Celerons, Athlons and so on. Might that confusion work to Apple's advantage in this changeover, assuming of course that the speeds are not a huge leap over what's shipping now?
I ask this for purely selfish reasons as I want to upgrade my 667MHz PowerBook and I really feel I should wait, which is driving me crazy.
According to this Digitimes article, ATi began shipping in volume its new mobile Radeon 9600 Pro on Friday. If indeed a Radeon 9600 is to be used in the new 15-inch PowerBook G4 as has been rumored, then it shouldn't be long until we see the new 15.4-inch G4 PowerBook.
If indeed a Radeon 9600 is to be used in the new 15-inch PowerBook G4 as has been rumored, then it shouldn't be long until we see the new 15.4-inch G4 PowerBook.
According to this Digitimes article, ATi began shipping in volume its new mobile Radeon 9600 Pro on Friday. If indeed a Radeon 9600 is to be used in the new 15-inch PowerBook G4 as has been rumored, then it shouldn't be long until we see the new 15.4-inch G4 PowerBook.
The article doesn't mention the mobile chip. The Pro is a desktop chip.
The 12"/15"/17" will all be updated with the PPC970 at the same time, which will also include the introduction of the 15" Al.
That is what I am secretly hoping for. The added cost of a 12-inch PowerBook compared to a 12" iBook would be much easier to justify if it came with a PPC 970 (and 1GB RAM and DVI-out).
There's a possibility that there may not even be enough PPC970 to plug all the PM slots. This is still a heretofore untested product going into it's FIRST application, and FIRST volume production run. Remember what happened with speed dropped G4's? It may pass that even the low-end tower remains a dual G4 (and probably dual boot) affair for a few months even when the first 64 bit pMacs arrive. Yes yes, it's IBM, not moto, that means nothing, mac heads are building IBM into something they're not, a proven alternative, a guarantee. Moto is a hude chip maker, and they had problems, IBM also has a lot on their plate besides PPC's. Don't expect an immediate bounty of chips.
It actually sorta makes sense. Apple dumped the dp867 for an sp 1ghz machine. If the LOW END pMac were bumped back to a faster DP machine, say dp1.25 for 1500, it wouldn't be too bad, not great, but not horrible either, especially for the multitude of pro customers who still NEED OS9. The top two configs move up to fast 970's, duals on top.
Moto was supposed to deliver the 7447/7457 in time for the 12"/17" Al PBs for their introduction, and the PB 15" Al also was to be introduced at the same time. Moto fell on their face again. So since the 7447/57 is pin compatiblie with the 7455, the 12"/17" are introduced on schedule with hotter more power hungry chips. The 17" is more affected then Apple thought, so the production was delayed. Apple holds back the 15" Al - nothing particularly to gain since the processor is the same. Instead, focus is put on the PPC970 in the PBs - all models. The 12"/15"/17" will all be updated with the PPC970 at the same time, which will also include the introduction of the 15" Al.
Diverging path:
iBooks/eMacs will receive the IBM G3+, the iMac lower speed PPC970. PM higher speed/dual PPC970. Moto is bye-bye.
-or-
iBooks receive IBM G3+. eMacs/iMacs receive 7457s. Moto is a second supplier.
[/SPECULATION]
Maybe it's out of hope, but I really do believe that something is going on here. Why did apple update the 15" one month before introducing the 12" and 17" yet not give the 15" the same features? Then there was that huge delay with the 17", and the 12" was late out too. Why would apple choose to do something like this, unless something went wrong. Also why not give the 17" a faster CPU than the 15". As well, why has apple left the 15", there most popular model, out to rot for 5 months. I would guess that few are buying the 15" models knowing that they don't have airport extreme and DDR etc like the other newer models do. How hard would it have been to do a silent update and add the missing features to the 15"? Somethins is up...
I would guess that few are buying the 15" models knowing that they don't have airport extreme and DDR etc like the other newer models do.
IIRC, Apple sold nearly as many 15-inch PowerBooks in the most recent quarter as 12-inchers - 70,000 vs. 80,000, or something like that. Year-to-year, I don't think sales of the 15 were off as much as the iMac or Power Mac, and a lot of sales were probably cannibalized by the new 12 and 17.
i waited and waited and waited for my 1ghz superdrive to be released - almost f-ing up by ordering a ti800 on nov. 1 after I couldn't take another false rumor (I cancelled a few days later, luckily it hadn't shipped, and ordered the 1ghz ti on the 6th).
after all that, the alBooks came out the next month. I couldn't believe it. But I still would have gotten the 15" anyway - Perhaps it's apple trying to be intentionally unpredictable with their hardware releases, as this one was a wtf.
There's a possibility that there may not even be enough PPC970 to plug all the PM slots. This is still a heretofore untested product going into it's FIRST application, and FIRST volume production run.
IBM claims that Fishkill is running at 1/3rd capacity, and ramping up quickly.
Fishkill is a big fab, so my guess is that they're already making enough for PowerMacs. The trick is to make enough for Apple and IBM, since there are certain factions within IBM who want to use the 970 to blow the Itanium off the market.
Quote:
Remember what happened with speed dropped G4's? It may pass that even the low-end tower remains a dual G4 (and probably dual boot) affair for a few months even when the first 64 bit pMacs arrive. Yes yes, it's IBM, not moto, that means nothing, mac heads are building IBM into something they're not, a proven alternative, a guarantee.
And you're turning them into something they aren't, which is a fab as plagued with production issues as Motorola SPS is. Nobody else in that industry is having as much trouble as Mot SPS.
Even with the G4, when Motorola was unable to supply the 7400 in sufficient quantities for Apple, IBM stepped in and picked up the slack (and, reportedly, soaked Motorola for the privilege). They don't get to charge the highest fees of any contract fab in the world by being half-assed and unreliable. Sure, IBM Semiconductor is staffed by humans, and saddled with IBM's infamous bureaucracy, but their only misfire to date (missing out on SIMD) was a strategic error, not a fabrication problem.
Quote:
Moto is a hude chip maker, and they had problems, IBM also has a lot on their plate besides PPC's. Don't expect an immediate bounty of chips.
If the reports from IBM to the media are any indication, Fishkill is currently exceeding IBM's expectations. IBM's expectations were high, because Fishkill burned a rather large hole in their budget in order to serve a depressed market, so a lot is hinging on its ability to pay for itself. Sofar, again if the scant accounts published sofar are to be believed, it's not disappointing.
Quote:
It actually sorta makes sense. Apple dumped the dp867 for an sp 1ghz machine. If the LOW END pMac were bumped back to a faster DP machine, say dp1.25 for 1500, it wouldn't be too bad, not great, but not horrible either, especially for the multitude of pro customers who still NEED OS9. The top two configs move up to fast 970's, duals on top.
Apple's probably hoping that after this summer there will be no - or precious few - customers who need OS 9. If the next version of FCP doesn't crash constantly under X, the only real holdouts among Apple's professional customers will be Quark users.
Amorph, Yah, I just said it was a possibility, and it still is. The PB12 and PB17, and the iMac FP before that have all been half way between paper launches and real launches. Apple needs to show something, but when you can't ship it (or the full lineup) for 6-12 weeks after launch, that can only be a supply problem somewhere. I doubt it was with PPC's in these cases (plenty available at the speeds used in these products, just saying.)
I think it's also a possibility that we'll see ALL pMacs and the 17" PB updated to 970's (because they're all high margin) and there may be enough for that. But there may not be, and people shouldn't be too surprised if there aren't. I'm sure supply will be ample sometime AFTER Apple finally announces and starts shipping their first machines. That's just been the pattern to date.
Remember Powerpage announced shortly after the new iBooks were released that new PowerBooks would come out on May 19th. That is tomorrow. And there is no sign that they'll be right. Another rumor site down the crapper.
Remember Powerpage announced shortly after the new iBooks were released that new PowerBooks would come out on May 19th. That is tomorrow. And there is no sign that they'll be right. Another rumor site down the crapper.
wtf???!!!!
signs? \
i dont need signs...i mean....if i had a can of coke next to me now....THAT would be a sign...ok?!
Comments
Originally posted by cowerd
There will be no upgrades until a new chip shows.
I keep beating this drum too. My suspicion is that the 1GHz iMac uses the same low-power chip variant as the PowerBooks, and that the faster chips are just too hot.
But here's a thought. If the 970 debuted in the PowerBooks at a comparable clock speed -- 1GHz or 1.2, tops -- would it be so bad if the 15 had that chip until the 17 is revised? What I mean is, for the majority of consumers, would a 1GHz G4 and a 1.25GHz 970 mean that much? To us, yes, but remember, most people (I mean potential switchers as well as less-in-the-know Mac customers) are still looking at speed. Peecee folks, most of them, anyway, don't know the difference between PIII and PIV, except for the general feeling that 4 must be better than 3 because it's one more, and are clueless about the difference between Celerons, Athlons and so on. Might that confusion work to Apple's advantage in this changeover, assuming of course that the speeds are not a huge leap over what's shipping now?
I ask this for purely selfish reasons as I want to upgrade my 667MHz PowerBook and I really feel I should wait, which is driving me crazy.
Tony
If indeed a Radeon 9600 is to be used in the new 15-inch PowerBook G4 as has been rumored, then it shouldn't be long until we see the new 15.4-inch G4 PowerBook.
Once again, what chip and what speeds?
Originally posted by DHagan4755
According to this Digitimes article, ATi began shipping in volume its new mobile Radeon 9600 Pro on Friday. If indeed a Radeon 9600 is to be used in the new 15-inch PowerBook G4 as has been rumored, then it shouldn't be long until we see the new 15.4-inch G4 PowerBook.
The article doesn't mention the mobile chip. The Pro is a desktop chip.
Originally posted by flyhigher
The article doesn't mention the mobile chip. The Pro is a desktop chip.
Awww, crap.
Originally posted by jwdawso
The 12"/15"/17" will all be updated with the PPC970 at the same time, which will also include the introduction of the 15" Al.
That is what I am secretly hoping for. The added cost of a 12-inch PowerBook compared to a 12" iBook would be much easier to justify if it came with a PPC 970 (and 1GB RAM and DVI-out).
Escher
It actually sorta makes sense. Apple dumped the dp867 for an sp 1ghz machine. If the LOW END pMac were bumped back to a faster DP machine, say dp1.25 for 1500, it wouldn't be too bad, not great, but not horrible either, especially for the multitude of pro customers who still NEED OS9. The top two configs move up to fast 970's, duals on top.
Originally posted by jwdawso
[SPECULATION]
Moto was supposed to deliver the 7447/7457 in time for the 12"/17" Al PBs for their introduction, and the PB 15" Al also was to be introduced at the same time. Moto fell on their face again. So since the 7447/57 is pin compatiblie with the 7455, the 12"/17" are introduced on schedule with hotter more power hungry chips. The 17" is more affected then Apple thought, so the production was delayed. Apple holds back the 15" Al - nothing particularly to gain since the processor is the same. Instead, focus is put on the PPC970 in the PBs - all models. The 12"/15"/17" will all be updated with the PPC970 at the same time, which will also include the introduction of the 15" Al.
Diverging path:
iBooks/eMacs will receive the IBM G3+, the iMac lower speed PPC970. PM higher speed/dual PPC970. Moto is bye-bye.
-or-
iBooks receive IBM G3+. eMacs/iMacs receive 7457s. Moto is a second supplier.
[/SPECULATION]
Maybe it's out of hope, but I really do believe that something is going on here. Why did apple update the 15" one month before introducing the 12" and 17" yet not give the 15" the same features? Then there was that huge delay with the 17", and the 12" was late out too. Why would apple choose to do something like this, unless something went wrong. Also why not give the 17" a faster CPU than the 15". As well, why has apple left the 15", there most popular model, out to rot for 5 months. I would guess that few are buying the 15" models knowing that they don't have airport extreme and DDR etc like the other newer models do. How hard would it have been to do a silent update and add the missing features to the 15"? Somethins is up...
Originally posted by Algol
I would guess that few are buying the 15" models knowing that they don't have airport extreme and DDR etc like the other newer models do.
IIRC, Apple sold nearly as many 15-inch PowerBooks in the most recent quarter as 12-inchers - 70,000 vs. 80,000, or something like that. Year-to-year, I don't think sales of the 15 were off as much as the iMac or Power Mac, and a lot of sales were probably cannibalized by the new 12 and 17.
i waited and waited and waited for my 1ghz superdrive to be released - almost f-ing up by ordering a ti800 on nov. 1 after I couldn't take another false rumor (I cancelled a few days later, luckily it hadn't shipped, and ordered the 1ghz ti on the 6th).
after all that, the alBooks came out the next month. I couldn't believe it. But I still would have gotten the 15" anyway - Perhaps it's apple trying to be intentionally unpredictable with their hardware releases, as this one was a wtf.
Originally posted by Matsu
There's a possibility that there may not even be enough PPC970 to plug all the PM slots. This is still a heretofore untested product going into it's FIRST application, and FIRST volume production run.
IBM claims that Fishkill is running at 1/3rd capacity, and ramping up quickly.
Fishkill is a big fab, so my guess is that they're already making enough for PowerMacs. The trick is to make enough for Apple and IBM, since there are certain factions within IBM who want to use the 970 to blow the Itanium off the market.
Remember what happened with speed dropped G4's? It may pass that even the low-end tower remains a dual G4 (and probably dual boot) affair for a few months even when the first 64 bit pMacs arrive. Yes yes, it's IBM, not moto, that means nothing, mac heads are building IBM into something they're not, a proven alternative, a guarantee.
And you're turning them into something they aren't, which is a fab as plagued with production issues as Motorola SPS is. Nobody else in that industry is having as much trouble as Mot SPS.
Even with the G4, when Motorola was unable to supply the 7400 in sufficient quantities for Apple, IBM stepped in and picked up the slack (and, reportedly, soaked Motorola for the privilege). They don't get to charge the highest fees of any contract fab in the world by being half-assed and unreliable. Sure, IBM Semiconductor is staffed by humans, and saddled with IBM's infamous bureaucracy, but their only misfire to date (missing out on SIMD) was a strategic error, not a fabrication problem.
Moto is a hude chip maker, and they had problems, IBM also has a lot on their plate besides PPC's. Don't expect an immediate bounty of chips.
If the reports from IBM to the media are any indication, Fishkill is currently exceeding IBM's expectations. IBM's expectations were high, because Fishkill burned a rather large hole in their budget in order to serve a depressed market, so a lot is hinging on its ability to pay for itself. Sofar, again if the scant accounts published sofar are to be believed, it's not disappointing.
It actually sorta makes sense. Apple dumped the dp867 for an sp 1ghz machine. If the LOW END pMac were bumped back to a faster DP machine, say dp1.25 for 1500, it wouldn't be too bad, not great, but not horrible either, especially for the multitude of pro customers who still NEED OS9. The top two configs move up to fast 970's, duals on top.
Apple's probably hoping that after this summer there will be no - or precious few - customers who need OS 9. If the next version of FCP doesn't crash constantly under X, the only real holdouts among Apple's professional customers will be Quark users.
I think it's also a possibility that we'll see ALL pMacs and the 17" PB updated to 970's (because they're all high margin) and there may be enough for that. But there may not be, and people shouldn't be too surprised if there aren't. I'm sure supply will be ample sometime AFTER Apple finally announces and starts shipping their first machines. That's just been the pattern to date.
Originally posted by jwdawso
ug prediction for next week is the 15" Al PB with the same features as the 17", but with a new screen. (I was hoping/wishing for a PPC970 15"...)
WHATEVER IT IS!!! i would be very very happy if they release it next week
iam upgrading from an imac333
i want firewire...bluetooth...airport extreme...1ghz g4...a good graphics card..geeez...it has everything...dont complain!!!
apple!!! release it now!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by DHagan4755
Remember Powerpage announced shortly after the new iBooks were released that new PowerBooks would come out on May 19th. That is tomorrow. And there is no sign that they'll be right. Another rumor site down the crapper.
wtf???!!!!
signs?
i dont need signs...i mean....if i had a can of coke next to me now....THAT would be a sign...ok?!