Ok, I thought the Phoenix saga ROCKED in the old cartoon series. It did get messy toward the end, but it rocked nonetheless.
Did anyone else see that silhouette underneath the lake at the end? Was that Jean/Phoenix? What was up with the fire imagery and Jean's telekinetic powers? Was that just creative license or was it alluding to possible Phoenix conjoinment?
Storm should have totally whipped up a hundred tornadoes to suck up that lake.
Lady Deathstrike's character totally got used. She didn't say more than 10 words in the whole movie, and what's up with her healing powers?
Mystique KICKED ASS. Also, is she Nightcrawler's mom in this movie? The visual clues are obvious, but I guess they didn't feel like they needed to dwell on such details.
The book was a retelling of the Sir Thomas Mallory version of Arthur's life, which is the movie "Excalibur" template.
I haven't seen the movie so I don't really know what this talk about this book is, so the only connection I could think of (without getting all metaphorical) is the Excalibur comics that sometimes crossed into X-Men. Actually, now that I think of it, wasn't one of the members of Excalibur Jean Grey/Phoenix's daughter or something? I don't remember the name of who I'm thinking of, she wore all red.
Quote:
Originally posted by frawgz
Ok, I thought the Phoenix saga ROCKED in the old cartoon series. It did get messy toward the end, but it rocked nonetheless.
Did anyone else see that silhouette underneath the lake at the end? Was that Jean/Phoenix? What was up with the fire imagery and Jean's telekinetic powers? Was that just creative license or was it alluding to possible Phoenix conjoinment?
Storm should have totally whipped up a hundred tornadoes to suck up that lake.
Lady Deathstrike's character totally got used. She didn't say more than 10 words in the whole movie, and what's up with her healing powers?
Mystique KICKED ASS. Also, is she Nightcrawler's mom in this movie? The visual clues are obvious, but I guess they didn't feel like they needed to dwell on such details.
So did I, I think it was one of the best storylines they ever had. If there was a silhouette under water and there was a lot of fire imagery I'm guessing that it was supposed to be Jean Grey and/or hinting at Phoenix in the next one. In the comic book series, the Phoenix replaced Jean Grey for quite some time before the rest of the X-Men caught on, while Jean Grey was healing from that almost dying thing in the bay. As time passed the Phoenix started to get more and more restless/powerful and got out of hand. During intense battles she would have weird flashes of fire and the Phoenix would take control for a little bit, but this became more and more frequent and stronger. Eventually the Phoenix got so powerful that it took control completely, becoming the Dark Phoenix. To "save Earth" from the possibility of her destroying it on a random rampage, she flew into space and blew her self up, destroying an entire universe.
Is Lady Deathstrike the one with huge-ass fingernail claw things? If so, her healing abilities are similar to Wolverine's right? Because if that is who I'm thinking about, I had an issue (don't think it was X-Men, it was either a Wolverine or Sabretooth comic) in which her, Sabretooth, and Wolverine got involved in some huge 3 person battle, and it was weird because they all had very similar abilities.
Man, I never realized how much I liked X-Men. That's kinda sad I remember all that.
Buy the way anybody remember the names of the other mutants on strykers computer. im sure i saw lance alders( avalanche)
I thought I caught Warren Worthington, but I may have been looking too hard.
Jeff
pitty angel keeps getting cut. i remember reading an interview with david hayter(screenwriter for 1 and 2) that angel was meant to appear in a basketball sequence in 1 when a young rougue would walk buy and a handsome guy would open his wings and slam the ball. however this scene was to have cost $ 400,000 and instead bryan singer director hired the little teleporting kid on the basketball court. ive also read about possibly giving magneto his kids quicksilver and the scarlet witch, which would have enhance the
I haven't seen the movie so I don't really know what this talk about this book is, so the only connection I could think of (without getting all metaphorical) is the Excalibur comics that sometimes crossed into X-Men. Actually, now that I think of it, wasn't one of the members of Excalibur Jean Grey/Phoenix's daughter or something? I don't remember the name of who I'm thinking of, she wore all red.
That's better than anything I can come up with, but it seemed to be put out there as something more significant. There were other knowing winks to the fanboys in the crowd, as mentioned above, though.
pitty angel keeps getting cut. i remember reading an interview with david hayter(screenwriter for 1 and 2) that angel was meant to appear in a basketball sequence in 1 when a young rougue would walk buy and a handsome guy would open his wings and slam the ball. however this scene was to have cost $ 400,000 and instead bryan singer director hired the little teleporting kid on the basketball court.
I read in Entertainment Weekly that Angel's X-Ray appears in Strykers lab, I think on a computer but I didn't catch it.
Is Lady Deathstrike the one with huge-ass fingernail claw things? If so, her healing abilities are similar to Wolverine's right? Because if that is who I'm thinking about, I had an issue (don't think it was X-Men, it was either a Wolverine or Sabretooth comic) in which her, Sabretooth, and Wolverine got involved in some huge 3 person battle, and it was weird because they all had very similar abilities.
In the cartoon, I don't think she was a mutant at all. She was a human who had adamantium claws grafted onto her.
I thought Lady Deathstrike was a cyborg rather than a mutant in the comics. Then again, admantium claws and mutant healing factor do seem to go together.
I thought Lady Deathstrike was a cyborg rather than a mutant in the comics. Then again, admantium claws and mutant healing factor do seem to go together.
my understanding was that only mutants with the healing ability could survive the adamantium process
If Wolverine didn't have his healing factor, not only would he not have survived the Weapon X project, but (since is the world of comics, let's say he did) he would not be able to live at all since people's skeletons provide the body with (shit man, I don't know) that Wolverine's couldn't produce because it's laced in adamantium. So, given that, Wolverine's healing factor is always working just to keep him alive. I think I remember something like his body is always trying to reject the metal in him and it's the healing factor that's coping with this. .... Ahhh, I don't know. It's been a while.
The movie kicked ass. I read a review on Ain't It Cool News that went something like this:
X-Men 2 should be renamed to "X-Men kick you in the balls so hard that you puke on your balls and also your ass."
Also in the same review: "X-Men is a movie that says 'I'm going to kick you in the balls' and before you can say 'What did you say?', it kicks you in the balls and eats out your girlfriend."
I thought Lady Deathstrike was a cyborg rather than a mutant in the comics. Then again, admantium claws and mutant healing factor do seem to go together.
It does make sense that they would go together. Later on, Wolverine somehow loses his healing power and dies off adamantium poisoning in the comics (or some spin-off).
Lady Deathstrike, however, before she was Lady Deathstrike, was Wolverine's lover. The cartoon never made any mention of her having mutant powers, so she was (for all we knew) human. Later, enraged that Wolverine killed her father (or something), she underwent a procedure to graft adamantium onto her limbs. It was a different procedure than what Wolverine went through, and there was no suggestion that she only survived it because of some healing power. In fact, she has a bunch of other cyborg friends who evidently underwent similar self-mutilating procedures.
Kevin McTaggert was Proteus, an awesome mutant who took people's bodies as hosts. He was the son of a Scottish woman who Xavier was friends with.
So, given that, Wolverine's healing factor is always working just to keep him alive. I think I remember something like his body is always trying to reject the metal in him and it's the healing factor that's coping with this. .... Ahhh, I don't know. It's been a while.
yes, and several years back (i think about '95?), magneto decided to rip the adamantium straight out of wolvie's body through every pore all at once. let's just say this was a bit graphic for its day.
once they finally got all of the metal out of his system (it was kinda in a sick "halfway point" jutting out of every orifice and joint), his healing mode went into overdrive, and he got increasingly feral and freakin' enormous as his body over-compensated for the lack of metal in his body.
and yes, unfortunately, they decided to make his claws out of real bone (this was revealed once his metal was removed, yet bared his claws in one battle, much to everyone's -- including his own -- surprise). i say unfortunately because, as was the style back in those days of comics, everything was being written for maximum soap opera "shock value," whether it made a lot of sense or not. comic sales were tanking badly after their metoric rise in the early-90's, and marvel was especially bad in trying to cash in on their hot mutant titles. (chris claremont wrote a funny tongue-in-cheek issue called "too many mutants" to call attention to how ridiculously crowded the editors and management were making the mutant universe).
Not too much to add, other than to repeat that this was an awesome movie and totally kicked ass. Completely beat the first one in almost every way, story line, character development, action etc. Was the director the same for both movies? I seem to remember reading that when the director was chosen for the first movie, he admitted that he'd never read an X-men comic and I got the idea that he had based the movie on the lame ass saturday morning cartoon of the mid-90's. X2 seems to return to actually being based on the comic.
The fire under the water at the end was supposed to be Pheonix, and Jean's fire like aura was an allusion to the power of the Phoenix within her. Others here are right when they say that the whole Jean Grey/Phoenix story line in the comics got really messed up. When first introduced, Phoenix was a killer character who was extremely popular. They started to based almost everything in the XMen storylines around her. Dark Pheonix, the crystal with the galaxy inside, Cable, the return of Jean Grey.
XMen and Marvel in general really started tanking as a creative enterprise when all those top tier artists left to create Image comics, which became one of the most popular labels around. Image soon suffered the same fate and their stable of characters grew and grew and became unwieldly, just as Marvel had done before.
Anyway, back on topic, once again, probably the best comic book adaptation movie I have seen.
Actually, the Pheonix saga has the potential to make a lot of people happy. If Jean Grey becomes too powerful, they could use Rogue to absorb most of Pheonix's powers and granting Rogue the abilities that she has in the comic like flight and invunerability, and at the same time giving them an excuse to bring Jean Grey back to normal. <shrugs> It wouldn't exactly be a strict comic book adaptation, but it might work.
Comments
The book was a retelling of the Sir Thomas Mallory version of Arthur's life, which is the movie "Excalibur" template.
Modred is Arthur's inbred nephew/son.
I don't see much relevance between the Art/Gwen/Lance downfall of Camelot to the plight of mutants.
The Grail Quest doesn't fit...
Anyone else?
Jeff
Did anyone else see that silhouette underneath the lake at the end? Was that Jean/Phoenix? What was up with the fire imagery and Jean's telekinetic powers? Was that just creative license or was it alluding to possible Phoenix conjoinment?
Storm should have totally whipped up a hundred tornadoes to suck up that lake.
Lady Deathstrike's character totally got used. She didn't say more than 10 words in the whole movie, and what's up with her healing powers?
Mystique KICKED ASS. Also, is she Nightcrawler's mom in this movie? The visual clues are obvious, but I guess they didn't feel like they needed to dwell on such details.
Originally posted by jeffyboy
The book was a retelling of the Sir Thomas Mallory version of Arthur's life, which is the movie "Excalibur" template.
I haven't seen the movie so I don't really know what this talk about this book is, so the only connection I could think of (without getting all metaphorical) is the Excalibur comics that sometimes crossed into X-Men. Actually, now that I think of it, wasn't one of the members of Excalibur Jean Grey/Phoenix's daughter or something? I don't remember the name of who I'm thinking of, she wore all red.
Originally posted by frawgz
Ok, I thought the Phoenix saga ROCKED in the old cartoon series. It did get messy toward the end, but it rocked nonetheless.
Did anyone else see that silhouette underneath the lake at the end? Was that Jean/Phoenix? What was up with the fire imagery and Jean's telekinetic powers? Was that just creative license or was it alluding to possible Phoenix conjoinment?
Storm should have totally whipped up a hundred tornadoes to suck up that lake.
Lady Deathstrike's character totally got used. She didn't say more than 10 words in the whole movie, and what's up with her healing powers?
Mystique KICKED ASS. Also, is she Nightcrawler's mom in this movie? The visual clues are obvious, but I guess they didn't feel like they needed to dwell on such details.
So did I, I think it was one of the best storylines they ever had. If there was a silhouette under water and there was a lot of fire imagery I'm guessing that it was supposed to be Jean Grey and/or hinting at Phoenix in the next one. In the comic book series, the Phoenix replaced Jean Grey for quite some time before the rest of the X-Men caught on, while Jean Grey was healing from that almost dying thing in the bay. As time passed the Phoenix started to get more and more restless/powerful and got out of hand. During intense battles she would have weird flashes of fire and the Phoenix would take control for a little bit, but this became more and more frequent and stronger. Eventually the Phoenix got so powerful that it took control completely, becoming the Dark Phoenix. To "save Earth" from the possibility of her destroying it on a random rampage, she flew into space and blew her self up, destroying an entire universe.
Is Lady Deathstrike the one with huge-ass fingernail claw things? If so, her healing abilities are similar to Wolverine's right? Because if that is who I'm thinking about, I had an issue (don't think it was X-Men, it was either a Wolverine or Sabretooth comic) in which her, Sabretooth, and Wolverine got involved in some huge 3 person battle, and it was weird because they all had very similar abilities.
Man, I never realized how much I liked X-Men. That's kinda sad I remember all that.
Originally posted by jeffyboy
Buy the way anybody remember the names of the other mutants on strykers computer. im sure i saw lance alders( avalanche)
I thought I caught Warren Worthington, but I may have been looking too hard.
Jeff
pitty angel keeps getting cut. i remember reading an interview with david hayter(screenwriter for 1 and 2) that angel was meant to appear in a basketball sequence in 1 when a young rougue would walk buy and a handsome guy would open his wings and slam the ball. however this scene was to have cost $ 400,000 and instead bryan singer director hired the little teleporting kid on the basketball court. ive also read about possibly giving magneto his kids quicksilver and the scarlet witch, which would have enhance the
story.
looks like macs were used for witing X2 http://www.apple.com/pro/video/harris-dougherty/
I haven't seen the movie so I don't really know what this talk about this book is, so the only connection I could think of (without getting all metaphorical) is the Excalibur comics that sometimes crossed into X-Men. Actually, now that I think of it, wasn't one of the members of Excalibur Jean Grey/Phoenix's daughter or something? I don't remember the name of who I'm thinking of, she wore all red.
That's better than anything I can come up with, but it seemed to be put out there as something more significant. There were other knowing winks to the fanboys in the crowd, as mentioned above, though.
Jeff
pitty angel keeps getting cut. i remember reading an interview with david hayter(screenwriter for 1 and 2) that angel was meant to appear in a basketball sequence in 1 when a young rougue would walk buy and a handsome guy would open his wings and slam the ball. however this scene was to have cost $ 400,000 and instead bryan singer director hired the little teleporting kid on the basketball court.
I read in Entertainment Weekly that Angel's X-Ray appears in Strykers lab, I think on a computer but I didn't catch it.
Dang, looks like I'll have to go see it again!
8)
Jeff
Originally posted by iBrowse
Is Lady Deathstrike the one with huge-ass fingernail claw things? If so, her healing abilities are similar to Wolverine's right? Because if that is who I'm thinking about, I had an issue (don't think it was X-Men, it was either a Wolverine or Sabretooth comic) in which her, Sabretooth, and Wolverine got involved in some huge 3 person battle, and it was weird because they all had very similar abilities.
In the cartoon, I don't think she was a mutant at all. She was a human who had adamantium claws grafted onto her.
Originally posted by jeffyboy
Buy the way anybody remember the names of the other mutants on strykers computer. im sure i saw lance alders( avalanche)
I thought I caught Warren Worthington, but I may have been looking too hard.
Jeff
Well being as I watched in on my computer i had the ability to pause at that point. The names were:
Paige Guthrie (Husk)
Samuel Guthrie (Cannonball)
Keniucho Harada (Silver Samurai)
Garrison Kane (one of the Weapon X's?)
Remy LeBeau (Gambit)
Eric. M. Lensherr (Magneto)
Artie Maddicks (he was in new mutants i think)
Jamie Madrox (Multiple Man)
Xi'an Coy Mahn (another new mutant)
Maximoff (2) (scarlet witch and quicksilver)
Kevin McTaggert (??)
Danielle Moonstar (Mirage)
Ororo Munroe (Storm)
Originally posted by Stoo
I thought Lady Deathstrike was a cyborg rather than a mutant in the comics. Then again, admantium claws and mutant healing factor do seem to go together.
my understanding was that only mutants with the healing ability could survive the adamantium process
The movie kicked ass. I read a review on Ain't It Cool News that went something like this:
X-Men 2 should be renamed to "X-Men kick you in the balls so hard that you puke on your balls and also your ass."
Also in the same review: "X-Men is a movie that says 'I'm going to kick you in the balls' and before you can say 'What did you say?', it kicks you in the balls and eats out your girlfriend."
It was a pretty funny review.
Originally posted by Stoo
I thought Lady Deathstrike was a cyborg rather than a mutant in the comics. Then again, admantium claws and mutant healing factor do seem to go together.
It does make sense that they would go together. Later on, Wolverine somehow loses his healing power and dies off adamantium poisoning in the comics (or some spin-off).
Lady Deathstrike, however, before she was Lady Deathstrike, was Wolverine's lover. The cartoon never made any mention of her having mutant powers, so she was (for all we knew) human. Later, enraged that Wolverine killed her father (or something), she underwent a procedure to graft adamantium onto her limbs. It was a different procedure than what Wolverine went through, and there was no suggestion that she only survived it because of some healing power. In fact, she has a bunch of other cyborg friends who evidently underwent similar self-mutilating procedures.
Kevin McTaggert was Proteus, an awesome mutant who took people's bodies as hosts. He was the son of a Scottish woman who Xavier was friends with.
Originally posted by Gambit
So, given that, Wolverine's healing factor is always working just to keep him alive. I think I remember something like his body is always trying to reject the metal in him and it's the healing factor that's coping with this. .... Ahhh, I don't know. It's been a while.
yes, and several years back (i think about '95?), magneto decided to rip the adamantium straight out of wolvie's body through every pore all at once. let's just say this was a bit graphic for its day.
once they finally got all of the metal out of his system (it was kinda in a sick "halfway point" jutting out of every orifice and joint), his healing mode went into overdrive, and he got increasingly feral and freakin' enormous as his body over-compensated for the lack of metal in his body.
and yes, unfortunately, they decided to make his claws out of real bone (this was revealed once his metal was removed, yet bared his claws in one battle, much to everyone's -- including his own -- surprise). i say unfortunately because, as was the style back in those days of comics, everything was being written for maximum soap opera "shock value," whether it made a lot of sense or not. comic sales were tanking badly after their metoric rise in the early-90's, and marvel was especially bad in trying to cash in on their hot mutant titles. (chris claremont wrote a funny tongue-in-cheek issue called "too many mutants" to call attention to how ridiculously crowded the editors and management were making the mutant universe).
i'd have to double check with him on it though. i think he said it wasn't talked about, but what pictured. something to that effect.
The fire under the water at the end was supposed to be Pheonix, and Jean's fire like aura was an allusion to the power of the Phoenix within her. Others here are right when they say that the whole Jean Grey/Phoenix story line in the comics got really messed up. When first introduced, Phoenix was a killer character who was extremely popular. They started to based almost everything in the XMen storylines around her. Dark Pheonix, the crystal with the galaxy inside, Cable, the return of Jean Grey.
XMen and Marvel in general really started tanking as a creative enterprise when all those top tier artists left to create Image comics, which became one of the most popular labels around. Image soon suffered the same fate and their stable of characters grew and grew and became unwieldly, just as Marvel had done before.
Anyway, back on topic, once again, probably the best comic book adaptation movie I have seen.
I don't know when comic writers will realize they paint themselves in a corner when a character becomes powerful on an omnipotent, cosmic scale.
The current Green Lantern, Kyle Rayner went through it in the last couple years, as did Hal Jordan before him.
Eventually they end up the same beloved, limited hero.
Jeff
Originally posted by jeffyboy
Tiny rant re-Phoenix:
I don't know when comic writers will realize they paint themselves in a corner when a character becomes powerful on an omnipotent, cosmic scale.
The current Green Lantern, Kyle Rayner went through it in the last couple years, as did Hal Jordan before him.
Eventually they end up the same beloved, limited hero.
Jeff
Yup...remember the Beyonder?