[quote]If that is OS X Lite , Why Have Keyboard Short Cuts ???
Just A Thought...
<hr></blockquote>
Haha! Excellent post. To me this is the one and only clue that disproves the video. A 24-hour long discussion simply and quickly cleared by one short insight. I'm surprised others haved not picked up on the elegance of the proof in this one statement and continue to discuss the video without even thinking: "why?"
Haha! Excellent post. To me this is the one and only clue that disproves the video. A 24-hour long discussion simply and quickly cleared by one short insight. I'm surprised others haved not picked up on the elegance of the proof in this one statement and continue to discuss the video without even thinking: "why?"</strong><hr></blockquote>
Why?!?! BECAUSE they are NOT writing a NEW OS that 'looks like' OS X they are USING OS X sources! I wouldn't be nearly as excited about this project if it wern't for the fact that this *IS* running OS X. That is the most amazing part.
I don't want to get into the "iPad or not" discussion. I personally think an apple pda could be true, but not like this.
but just to add some thoughts to the discussion how it was done if it's a fake: it could be an early version of macromedia flash running on a palm. with flash, any fake os could be done easily and you could never tell if it's real, because on the video (just visually), it would be.
My guess is that either it's being fed the video over that cable attached to the bottom of the Palm unit (don't ask me how), or the Palm's been gutted, and that cable is just sending video to what is essentially just a color LCD panel in the Palm casing.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is what I'm thinking as well. It's very easy to do. I just don't know how they would erase the mouse pointer...
Why?!?! BECAUSE they are NOT writing a NEW OS that 'looks like' OS X they are USING OS X sources! I wouldn't be nearly as excited about this project if it wern't for the fact that this *IS* running OS X. That is the most amazing part. </strong><hr></blockquote>
No, the most amazing part is that you really think they're running Apache on it.
<strong>I don't want to get into the "iPad or not" discussion. I personally think an apple pda could be true, but not like this.
but just to add some thoughts to the discussion how it was done if it's a fake: it could be an early version of macromedia flash running on a palm. with flash, any fake os could be done easily and you could never tell if it's real, because on the video (just visually), it would be.
regards from berlin,
johnny haeusler</strong><hr></blockquote>
I too seriously doubt that the final product eventually would look anything like this. I also doubt that it would be using this 160x160 pixel 256 color screen, it's outdated technology, and if you take a close look, the picture looks grainy.
Flash? Why not just ask Macromedia if they're currently working on a Palm version of flash?
Or maybe I am a Macromedia employee having fun making fake videos with technology no one else knows about? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
For the keyboard shortcuts thing, I'm not sure myself (I'm not working for apple or anything), but blackcat's theory sounds pretty logical. Also, why shouldn't they put alt and command keys on a final product?
I'm leaving for a vacation tomorrow, and will be away for approx. a week, maybe more. I know that it sounds like an excuse to spend a week making fake movies. Trust me or not. My point being here is not trying to "convince" you, I'm just supplying you with information I thought people here would find interesting.
Why not? If this thing actually is running some kind of modified OS X based on PPC, there would be no problem running it on a portable device?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sure, if it's an off-camera device, and they're just pumping video to a hacked up Palm case.
But assuming that:
a) the device is really that small
b) it really does contain: battery (enough to power a 2.5" IDE drive!), CPU (don't care if it's a PPC or not, really), RAM enough to run MacOS X 'Lite'...
It ain't going to be running Apache. Apache is a memory hog. That little Palm IIIc case is just plain *NOT* going to have all that other stuff crammed into it, *and* have enough room for the RAM to run what was essentially a full MacOS X, *with Apache*.
A MacOS X Lite based handheld is a definite possibility, but the hardware shown was just silly, and the fact that *Apache* shows up nails it for me... it's an off camera device pumping video.
Trust me, if this is real, I'll be one of the first in line to grab one, but I'm still (regretfully) calling hoax. It just isn't possible in that form factor, until (S)RAM densities go way up, and prices come way down.
<strong>It ain't going to be running Apache. Apache is a memory hog.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Excuse me? If configured and compiled properly (i.e. all essential modules compiled into Apache), Apache could easily serve up almost any site with just 56MB of ram. I speak from experience, as I managed to serve up 30,000 uniques a day in 256 MB of RAM with an active UBB 5.x.
Excuse me? If configured and compiled properly (i.e. all essential modules compiled into Apache), Apache could easily serve up almost any site with just 56MB of ram. I speak from experience, as I managed to serve up 30,000 uniques a day in 256 MB of RAM with an active UBB 5.x.</strong><hr></blockquote>
56MB of RAM, *INCLUDING* the OS? Because that's about what you're looking at here.
And while I can't argue with your experience with Apache... exactly how much of it is with a handheld again?
C'mon, think about it for a minute... they show:
...the OS booting in less time than it takes my Pismo 400MHz, with just plain more message flying by -> The system is faster than a 400MHz G3.
...they show Apache loading up -> It's got to have RAM commensurate with a desktop, even a low end one.
...they show it 'booting' off of a 2.5" IDE drive -> some serious power draw - I just took a quick peek at the one in my Pismo: 5V, 500mA.
So we take all this together, and you have:
A fairly hefty CPU for a handheld. Desktop power levels.
A fairly good sized amount of RAM required. (I'd say a minimum of 64MB, really, 128MB would certainly be more in line with wanting to run Apache.)
A battery that would need, what, 8 hours of good solid runtime? (An iPod gets away with just 4-5 hours because it runs the drive about 2% of the time, if that.)
And all of this in a package that fits in a Palm III case?
Riiiiiight.
Sorry, it just doesn't make sense. A faked video makes a *heck* of a lot more sense, if you just stop and think about it for a minute.
(To play my own counter here... the CPUs are *possible*, with embedded G3/4 cores, but the power needs are still beyond a PDA battery for any real usable amount of time... the RAM is possible, take a look at HP Jornada, but it's really, really pushing it to need 128MB... but the drive? Oh c'mon. Off a Palm IIIc internal battery? Not unless Apple's figured out a way to pump battery energy densities up about 20x. )
Don't know if anyone has noticed this yet, or even mentioned it, but the window in <a href="http://home.no.net/macosx/PICT0002.jpg"; target="_blank">this picture</a> seems to have the graphite appearance, whilst the Apple menu has the Aqua one (a physical impossibility, without themes, I thought).
Doesn't prove anything I suppose, I just thought it was interesting.
They are Norwegian or Danish - my bet is Norwegian since the movie is from a Norwegian server.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And Kjetil is most definately a Norwegian name. There aren't much Apple research done in Norway to say the least... So the chances of him knowing someone from Apple R&D that would supply him with this "prototype" is in my own humble opinion really small.
And by the way, isn't it a tad too likely that he can't show some more videos?
This one is for sure a fake... But there might be a new PDA in the labs.
Thanks for the QT 5 version! I don't know what I'm missing here... all this talk of a hard drive taped underneath, etc. The video is so dark, you can barely see the device this demo is running on. To me it looks like someone just cropped down their PowerBook display with some dark material and shaped one part of it to look like a Palm. The entire right side is dark, unseen in the clip and the hand is in total shadow.
What was the point of shooting this so poorly? We all know what OS X looks like and if it woks on a handheld, then it works. But what does the DEVICE look like? Or is that not the point?
Comments
Just A Thought...
<hr></blockquote>
Haha! Excellent post. To me this is the one and only clue that disproves the video. A 24-hour long discussion simply and quickly cleared by one short insight. I'm surprised others haved not picked up on the elegance of the proof in this one statement and continue to discuss the video without even thinking: "why?"
<strong>
Haha! Excellent post. To me this is the one and only clue that disproves the video. A 24-hour long discussion simply and quickly cleared by one short insight. I'm surprised others haved not picked up on the elegance of the proof in this one statement and continue to discuss the video without even thinking: "why?"</strong><hr></blockquote>
Why?!?! BECAUSE they are NOT writing a NEW OS that 'looks like' OS X they are USING OS X sources! I wouldn't be nearly as excited about this project if it wern't for the fact that this *IS* running OS X. That is the most amazing part.
<strong>If that is OS X Lite , Why Have Keyboard Short Cuts ???
Just A Thought...</strong><hr></blockquote>
An Apple PDA will have a USB port, people will plug their keyboards in, without shortcuts they'll whine
but just to add some thoughts to the discussion how it was done if it's a fake: it could be an early version of macromedia flash running on a palm. with flash, any fake os could be done easily and you could never tell if it's real, because on the video (just visually), it would be.
regards from berlin,
johnny haeusler
<strong>.
My guess is that either it's being fed the video over that cable attached to the bottom of the Palm unit (don't ask me how), or the Palm's been gutted, and that cable is just sending video to what is essentially just a color LCD panel in the Palm casing.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is what I'm thinking as well. It's very easy to do. I just don't know how they would erase the mouse pointer...
<strong>
This is what I'm thinking as well. It's very easy to do. I just don't know how they would erase the mouse pointer...</strong><hr></blockquote>
I used to have problems with my pointer dissapearing, so it's possible, just hard to click the correct places.
<strong>
Why?!?! BECAUSE they are NOT writing a NEW OS that 'looks like' OS X they are USING OS X sources! I wouldn't be nearly as excited about this project if it wern't for the fact that this *IS* running OS X. That is the most amazing part.
No, the most amazing part is that you really think they're running Apache on it.
<strong>I don't want to get into the "iPad or not" discussion. I personally think an apple pda could be true, but not like this.
but just to add some thoughts to the discussion how it was done if it's a fake: it could be an early version of macromedia flash running on a palm. with flash, any fake os could be done easily and you could never tell if it's real, because on the video (just visually), it would be.
regards from berlin,
johnny haeusler</strong><hr></blockquote>
I too seriously doubt that the final product eventually would look anything like this. I also doubt that it would be using this 160x160 pixel 256 color screen, it's outdated technology, and if you take a close look, the picture looks grainy.
Flash? Why not just ask Macromedia if they're currently working on a Palm version of flash?
Or maybe I am a Macromedia employee having fun making fake videos with technology no one else knows about? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
For the keyboard shortcuts thing, I'm not sure myself (I'm not working for apple or anything), but blackcat's theory sounds pretty logical. Also, why shouldn't they put alt and command keys on a final product?
I'm leaving for a vacation tomorrow, and will be away for approx. a week, maybe more. I know that it sounds like an excuse to spend a week making fake movies. Trust me or not. My point being here is not trying to "convince" you, I'm just supplying you with information I thought people here would find interesting.
Will be back as soon as I get home, bye
<strong>
No, the most amazing part is that you really think they're running Apache on it.
Why not? If this thing actually is running some kind of modified OS X based on PPC, there would be no problem running it on a portable device?
<strong>
Why not? If this thing actually is running some kind of modified OS X based on PPC, there would be no problem running it on a portable device?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sure, if it's an off-camera device, and they're just pumping video to a hacked up Palm case.
But assuming that:
a) the device is really that small
b) it really does contain: battery (enough to power a 2.5" IDE drive!), CPU (don't care if it's a PPC or not, really), RAM enough to run MacOS X 'Lite'...
It ain't going to be running Apache. Apache is a memory hog. That little Palm IIIc case is just plain *NOT* going to have all that other stuff crammed into it, *and* have enough room for the RAM to run what was essentially a full MacOS X, *with Apache*.
A MacOS X Lite based handheld is a definite possibility, but the hardware shown was just silly, and the fact that *Apache* shows up nails it for me... it's an off camera device pumping video.
Trust me, if this is real, I'll be one of the first in line to grab one, but I'm still (regretfully) calling hoax. It just isn't possible in that form factor, until (S)RAM densities go way up, and prices come way down.
<strong>It ain't going to be running Apache. Apache is a memory hog.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Excuse me? If configured and compiled properly (i.e. all essential modules compiled into Apache), Apache could easily serve up almost any site with just 56MB of ram. I speak from experience, as I managed to serve up 30,000 uniques a day in 256 MB of RAM with an active UBB 5.x.
<strong>
Excuse me? If configured and compiled properly (i.e. all essential modules compiled into Apache), Apache could easily serve up almost any site with just 56MB of ram. I speak from experience, as I managed to serve up 30,000 uniques a day in 256 MB of RAM with an active UBB 5.x.</strong><hr></blockquote>
56MB of RAM, *INCLUDING* the OS? Because that's about what you're looking at here.
And while I can't argue with your experience with Apache... exactly how much of it is with a handheld again?
C'mon, think about it for a minute... they show:
...the OS booting in less time than it takes my Pismo 400MHz, with just plain more message flying by -> The system is faster than a 400MHz G3.
...they show Apache loading up -> It's got to have RAM commensurate with a desktop, even a low end one.
...they show it 'booting' off of a 2.5" IDE drive -> some serious power draw - I just took a quick peek at the one in my Pismo: 5V, 500mA.
So we take all this together, and you have:
A fairly hefty CPU for a handheld. Desktop power levels.
A fairly good sized amount of RAM required. (I'd say a minimum of 64MB, really, 128MB would certainly be more in line with wanting to run Apache.)
A battery that would need, what, 8 hours of good solid runtime? (An iPod gets away with just 4-5 hours because it runs the drive about 2% of the time, if that.)
And all of this in a package that fits in a Palm III case?
Riiiiiight.
Sorry, it just doesn't make sense. A faked video makes a *heck* of a lot more sense, if you just stop and think about it for a minute.
(To play my own counter here... the CPUs are *possible*, with embedded G3/4 cores, but the power needs are still beyond a PDA battery for any real usable amount of time... the RAM is possible, take a look at HP Jornada, but it's really, really pushing it to need 128MB... but the drive? Oh c'mon. Off a Palm IIIc internal battery? Not unless Apple's figured out a way to pump battery energy densities up about 20x.
[ 06-23-2002: Message edited by: Kickaha ]</p>
<strong>
Flash? Why not just ask Macromedia if they're currently working on a Palm version of flash? </strong><hr></blockquote>
they are.
<strong>I'm calling hoax... I'm pretty sure the messages during the boot sequence are in German,?</strong><hr></blockquote>
They are Norwegian or Danish - my bet is Norwegian since the movie is from a Norwegian server.
Doesn't prove anything I suppose, I just thought it was interesting.
[ 06-24-2002: Message edited by: smeegers ]</p>
<strong>
They are Norwegian or Danish - my bet is Norwegian since the movie is from a Norwegian server.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And Kjetil is most definately a Norwegian name. There aren't much Apple research done in Norway to say the least... So the chances of him knowing someone from Apple R&D that would supply him with this "prototype" is in my own humble opinion really small.
And by the way, isn't it a tad too likely that he can't show some more videos?
This one is for sure a fake... But there might be a new PDA in the labs.
I think the mystery just got solved...
<strong><a href="http://www.btinternet.com/~harakan/PalmVNC/"; target="_blank">PalmVNC</a>
I think the mystery just got solved...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Looks like it.
What was the point of shooting this so poorly? We all know what OS X looks like and if it woks on a handheld, then it works. But what does the DEVICE look like? Or is that not the point?
Still a FAKE to me.