i would say that pit bulls can be more dog aggressive than other breeds. (some will be, some won't, but on average i would expect they're more dog aggressive than average)
they are not more likely to be human aggressive than other breeds.
a Golden Retreiver is more likely to bite a person than the average Pit Bull. those are the facts.
that is simply incorrect. if a dog attacks a human, he is considered a dangerous animal and you can get a court order to take custody of the animal if the owners dont cooperate. i know this because my dogs attacked my neighbors dog and they claimed that my dogs were dangerous and had them detained by animal control. we went to court and got it dismissed because they have never been anything close to aggressive towards a human being. if they had, then we would not have been able to "bail them out" of their prison cells in animal control and they would have eventually been put down.
Yes, if a dog attacks a human...MAULING. And see, your dogs were not put-down. There's a mongrel at the dog park I mentioned that attacked another dog, but it wasn't put down either. It was quarantined / put under the equivalent of house arrest for about a year. The victim dog was bleeding profusely from the jugular.
So, no, not even dog attacks result in euthanasia much of the time.
It's obvious Pit Bulls are very aggressive animals. Check.
It's clear the same aggressiveness is not the same towards humans. Check.
That said, my experience with that pit bull that I mentioned makes me think twice about even getting close to one. That dog that almost attacked my dog was MAD. It was out of control. Can you guarantee me or anyone that one of those out of control pit bulls won't attack a human? You're full of crap if you say yes.
Sure, any out of control dog may attack a human...the point is Pit Bulls are awfully aggressive towards other dogs and a lot of idiots are breeding them to be even more aggressive, stronger and destructive. And these new "breeds" of Pit Bulls may be more aggressive against humans by the simple fact that they may react quicker to a perceived threat to their master.
Dewdrops, I love how you "forgot" to bold this :
Quote:
With this breed, human-aggressiveness is rare. Until fairly recently in the APBT's breeding history,
Until fairly recently eh? Interesting.
I don't want all Pit Bulls destroyed(although I would not miss them one bit), but I Do want MUCH stricter laws/controls pertaining to Pit Bulls and their owners.
some people are more aggressive than other people. does that mean that we should euthanize them? the germans liked to start trouble in the past 150 years, does that mean we should kill them all? humans have the potential to be violent, just as all animals do. some are more passive than others, and some grow more aggressive during life due to experiences. that's just the way it goes.
this is nothing more than a nature vs. nurture argument...
Yes, if a dog attacks a human...MAULING. And see, your dogs were not put-down. There's a mongrel at the dog park I mentioned that attacked another dog, but it wasn't put down either. It was quarantined / put under the equivalent of house arrest for about a year. The victim dog was bleeding profusely from the jugular.
So, no, not even dog attacks result in euthanasia much of the time.
dog attacks arent the issue. stop changing the subject to make it seem like you're right.
i would say that pit bulls can be more dog aggressive than other breeds. (some will be, some won't, but on average i would expect they're more dog aggressive than average)
they are not more likely to be human aggressive than other breeds.
a Golden Retreiver is more likely to bite a person than the average Pit Bull. those are the facts.
Yeah, but a Golden Retriever, assuming this that sounds like BS to me is true of course, will probably not seriously maim or kill you. Big difference.
the pit bull was less aggressive than every single one of those dogs except for the great pyrenees. including golden retrievers. they tested hundreds of each breed, i doubt it's a fluke.
if you've got some facts to bring to the table Eugene, be my guest.
dog attacks arent the issue. stop changing the subject to make it seem like you're right.
Wait, wait, wait. What are you trying to say?
I said if a dog attacks a human, that is one of the only cases where it will be put down. You instead provide an instance where a dog is not put down. More power to me, isn't that?
You can't put a dog down merely for showing aggression. It has to actually do something, like attack a human or another dog. And in some cases, even that is not death sentence, like your own story suggests.
Ohy my God! My dog breed is 82.3%! I know precisely what that means!
Eugene, that's pulled from the link you posted. sorry if i assumed you also read it.
they go into detail as to what the tests consist of, and then the dogs either pass or fail. a golden is technically more likely to bite a person than a pit bull, but not by much. all i'm trying to point out is that these dogs are no more aggressive towards people than typically percieved "peaceful" breeds.
Quote:
Here's what would make a lovely study. Gather Animal Control officers data pertaining to reported cases of aggressive behavior/attacks.
except what some people would see as aggressive coming from a pit bull might be perfectly acceptable from a dog like a golden retriever. perception=reality in people's minds. (see Amorph and the pug story earlier)
as for the numbers being different, once you have a large enough population, it doesn't matter if they aren't the exact same. we're talking about a percentage, not a total. some breeds only had a few dozen dogs tested. both the pit and golden were in the hundreds.
I said if a dog attacks a human, that is one of the only cases where it will be put down. You instead provide an instance where a dog is not put down. More power to me, isn't that?
You can't put a dog down merely for showing aggression. It has to actually do something, like attack a human or another dog. And in some cases, even that is not death sentence, like your own story suggests.
so if i growl at you, do i get the death sentence? if i kill a dog, do i get a death sentence? no. i have to kill you to get a death sentence.
dogs do not get put down for attacking other animals. they do it all the time. ALL BREEDS DO! is this so difficult to understand?
One thing that bothers me about that test is that all the breeds' scores are so similar. They're all right around 80%. There are a few exceptions, but it looks like about 95% of the scores, once they have a large enough sample, converge to around that 80% success rate. I wonder if the test is sensitive enough to actually pick up differences between dogs. I also wonder if it's been externally validated in some way - are dogs that flunk the test more likely to bite a person, for example, since that's what we're talking about.
[edit] I noticed on the test site that the dog can flunk if it shows avoidance, or panic, or unprovoked aggression. So an ultra-timid dog could flunk too?
yes. often times ultra-timid dogs are considered unpredictable. they are more likely to snap w/o warning relative to dogs that gives normal warning signs.
most dog breeders won't sell ultra-timid dogs for this reason. they have a tendancy to bite without warning. i'm not sure on the avoidence aspect of it. i haven't come across any books on breeds that really talk about avoidance as an issue, although they might just be putting that in with timidness.
as for the numbers averaging out to about 80, that's what i'd expect. you aren't likely to find hundreds of dogs that are extremely anti-social in the general population. Rhodesian Ridgeback's (used to hunt lions originally) came in around 74%, shetland sheepdogs at 66%. (true work dogs, like most collies for example scored lower) labs on the other hand were over 90%.
that holds with what people keep as pets. if half of a specific breed were aggressive towards people, it would rapidly lose demand as a pet.
edit:
and of course there's always the problem of misidentification.
Quote:
\t
METROPOLITAN DESK | February 7, 2004, Saturday
Bronx Girls Are Bitten by Family's Pit Bull
By SABRINA TAVERNISE (NYT) 229 words
Late Edition - Final , Section B , Page 6 , Column 5
DISPLAYING FIRST 50 OF 229 WORDS - Two young girls, ages 3 and 5, were attacked in their Bronx home by a family pit bull, the police ... The girls, who were not identified by the police, were badly bitten, one in her lip area and the other on her head, the police said. The accident happened...
Correction: February 10, 2004, Tuesday
An article in some copies on Saturday about two young Bronx girls who were attacked by one of their family's dogs gave an incorrect identification from the police for the dog's breed. It was a boxer, not a pit bull.
the beauty is that of the papers who carried the "pit bull attack" story, only the times bothered to print the correction on the actual breed.
ORANGE, Calif - A 91-year-old woman mauled by her great-grandson?s pit bull was in critical condition Monday, with both arms amputated at the elbow, officials said.
ORANGE, Calif - A 91-year-old woman mauled by her great-grandson?s pit bull was in critical condition Monday, with both arms amputated at the elbow, officials said.
a golden retriever would indeed do that if it was trained to. dont fool yourself. people dont train GR's to do such things because they dont look very mean and dont have the mean reputation (man-made).
a golden retriever would indeed do that if it was trained to. dont fool yourself. people dont train GR's to do such things because they dont look very mean and dont have the mean reputation (man-made).
Ummm, you'd have a point if the article had any mention of that pit bull having been trained to attack.
Comments
they are not more likely to be human aggressive than other breeds.
a Golden Retreiver is more likely to bite a person than the average Pit Bull. those are the facts.
Originally posted by _ alliance _
that is simply incorrect. if a dog attacks a human, he is considered a dangerous animal and you can get a court order to take custody of the animal if the owners dont cooperate. i know this because my dogs attacked my neighbors dog and they claimed that my dogs were dangerous and had them detained by animal control. we went to court and got it dismissed because they have never been anything close to aggressive towards a human being. if they had, then we would not have been able to "bail them out" of their prison cells in animal control and they would have eventually been put down.
Yes, if a dog attacks a human...MAULING. And see, your dogs were not put-down. There's a mongrel at the dog park I mentioned that attacked another dog, but it wasn't put down either. It was quarantined / put under the equivalent of house arrest for about a year. The victim dog was bleeding profusely from the jugular.
So, no, not even dog attacks result in euthanasia much of the time.
It's clear the same aggressiveness is not the same towards humans. Check.
That said, my experience with that pit bull that I mentioned makes me think twice about even getting close to one. That dog that almost attacked my dog was MAD. It was out of control. Can you guarantee me or anyone that one of those out of control pit bulls won't attack a human? You're full of crap if you say yes.
Sure, any out of control dog may attack a human...the point is Pit Bulls are awfully aggressive towards other dogs and a lot of idiots are breeding them to be even more aggressive, stronger and destructive. And these new "breeds" of Pit Bulls may be more aggressive against humans by the simple fact that they may react quicker to a perceived threat to their master.
Dewdrops, I love how you "forgot" to bold this :
With this breed, human-aggressiveness is rare. Until fairly recently in the APBT's breeding history,
Until fairly recently eh? Interesting.
I don't want all Pit Bulls destroyed(although I would not miss them one bit), but I Do want MUCH stricter laws/controls pertaining to Pit Bulls and their owners.
this is nothing more than a nature vs. nurture argument...
a Golden Retreiver is more likely to bite a person than the average Pit Bull. those are the facts.
I can't take it anymore. With that statement, you win!
Originally posted by Eugene
Yes, if a dog attacks a human...MAULING. And see, your dogs were not put-down. There's a mongrel at the dog park I mentioned that attacked another dog, but it wasn't put down either. It was quarantined / put under the equivalent of house arrest for about a year. The victim dog was bleeding profusely from the jugular.
So, no, not even dog attacks result in euthanasia much of the time.
dog attacks arent the issue. stop changing the subject to make it seem like you're right.
Originally posted by alcimedes
i would say that pit bulls can be more dog aggressive than other breeds. (some will be, some won't, but on average i would expect they're more dog aggressive than average)
they are not more likely to be human aggressive than other breeds.
a Golden Retreiver is more likely to bite a person than the average Pit Bull. those are the facts.
Yeah, but a Golden Retriever, assuming this that sounds like BS to me is true of course, will probably not seriously maim or kill you. Big difference.
the pit bull was less aggressive than every single one of those dogs except for the great pyrenees. including golden retrievers. they tested hundreds of each breed, i doubt it's a fluke.
if you've got some facts to bring to the table Eugene, be my guest.
My bad. Sorry for the typo Mr. DREWPROPS.
Originally posted by _ alliance _
dog attacks arent the issue. stop changing the subject to make it seem like you're right.
Wait, wait, wait. What are you trying to say?
I said if a dog attacks a human, that is one of the only cases where it will be put down. You instead provide an instance where a dog is not put down. More power to me, isn't that?
You can't put a dog down merely for showing aggression. It has to actually do something, like attack a human or another dog. And in some cases, even that is not death sentence, like your own story suggests.
/part #this_thread You win, you win.
Here's what would make a lovely study. Gather Animal Control officers data pertaining to reported cases of aggressive behavior/attacks.
Ohy my God! My dog breed is 82.3%! I know precisely what that means!
Eugene, that's pulled from the link you posted. sorry if i assumed you also read it.
they go into detail as to what the tests consist of, and then the dogs either pass or fail. a golden is technically more likely to bite a person than a pit bull, but not by much. all i'm trying to point out is that these dogs are no more aggressive towards people than typically percieved "peaceful" breeds.
Here's what would make a lovely study. Gather Animal Control officers data pertaining to reported cases of aggressive behavior/attacks.
except what some people would see as aggressive coming from a pit bull might be perfectly acceptable from a dog like a golden retriever. perception=reality in people's minds. (see Amorph and the pug story earlier)
as for the numbers being different, once you have a large enough population, it doesn't matter if they aren't the exact same. we're talking about a percentage, not a total. some breeds only had a few dozen dogs tested. both the pit and golden were in the hundreds.
Originally posted by Eugene
Wait, wait, wait. What are you trying to say?
I said if a dog attacks a human, that is one of the only cases where it will be put down. You instead provide an instance where a dog is not put down. More power to me, isn't that?
You can't put a dog down merely for showing aggression. It has to actually do something, like attack a human or another dog. And in some cases, even that is not death sentence, like your own story suggests.
so if i growl at you, do i get the death sentence? if i kill a dog, do i get a death sentence? no. i have to kill you to get a death sentence.
dogs do not get put down for attacking other animals. they do it all the time. ALL BREEDS DO! is this so difficult to understand?
[edit] I noticed on the test site that the dog can flunk if it shows avoidance, or panic, or unprovoked aggression. So an ultra-timid dog could flunk too?
most dog breeders won't sell ultra-timid dogs for this reason. they have a tendancy to bite without warning. i'm not sure on the avoidence aspect of it. i haven't come across any books on breeds that really talk about avoidance as an issue, although they might just be putting that in with timidness.
as for the numbers averaging out to about 80, that's what i'd expect. you aren't likely to find hundreds of dogs that are extremely anti-social in the general population. Rhodesian Ridgeback's (used to hunt lions originally) came in around 74%, shetland sheepdogs at 66%. (true work dogs, like most collies for example scored lower) labs on the other hand were over 90%.
that holds with what people keep as pets. if half of a specific breed were aggressive towards people, it would rapidly lose demand as a pet.
edit:
and of course there's always the problem of misidentification.
\t
METROPOLITAN DESK | February 7, 2004, Saturday
Bronx Girls Are Bitten by Family's Pit Bull
By SABRINA TAVERNISE (NYT) 229 words
Late Edition - Final , Section B , Page 6 , Column 5
DISPLAYING FIRST 50 OF 229 WORDS - Two young girls, ages 3 and 5, were attacked in their Bronx home by a family pit bull, the police ... The girls, who were not identified by the police, were badly bitten, one in her lip area and the other on her head, the police said. The accident happened...
Correction: February 10, 2004, Tuesday
An article in some copies on Saturday about two young Bronx girls who were attacked by one of their family's dogs gave an incorrect identification from the police for the dog's breed. It was a boxer, not a pit bull.
the beauty is that of the papers who carried the "pit bull attack" story, only the times bothered to print the correction on the actual breed.
February 16, 2004
ORANGE, Calif - A 91-year-old woman mauled by her great-grandson?s pit bull was in critical condition Monday, with both arms amputated at the elbow, officials said.
Originally posted by Gilsch
Woman, 91, loses arms after Pit Bull attack
February 16, 2004
ORANGE, Calif - A 91-year-old woman mauled by her great-grandson?s pit bull was in critical condition Monday, with both arms amputated at the elbow, officials said.
a golden retriever would indeed do that if it was trained to. dont fool yourself. people dont train GR's to do such things because they dont look very mean and dont have the mean reputation (man-made).
Originally posted by _ alliance _
a golden retriever would indeed do that if it was trained to. dont fool yourself. people dont train GR's to do such things because they dont look very mean and dont have the mean reputation (man-made).
Ummm, you'd have a point if the article had any mention of that pit bull having been trained to attack.