MacOS Tablet PC prototype spotted??

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 85
    Quote:

    Originally posted by rongold





    And Why would Larry Ellison be so interested in buying PeopleSoft?




    Because buying Peoplesoft gets rid of one of Oracle's prime competitors, while making itself so large that it has pretty much a monopoly.



    Stupid DOJ.
  • Reply 62 of 85
    cubistcubist Posts: 954member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by gregmightdothat

    Because buying Peoplesoft gets rid of one of Oracle's prime competitors, while making itself so large that it has pretty much a monopoly.



    Stupid DOJ.




    I won't argue with "stupid DOJ", but Peoplesoft was not really a direct competitor with Oracle, nor is the result really a monopoly. Peoplesoft is a popular HR application. Oracle's intention was more like a way of augmenting Oracle Financials into the HR category so as to be able to fight SAP. SAP has been aligning itself more and more with Microsoft. We are consolidating ourselves up into a true clash of titans.
  • Reply 63 of 85
    cubistcubist Posts: 954member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by jms698

    Has anyone seen this technology this technology from IBM? Most people can get pretty quick at entering text using something like this....



    Sorry for the double-post. This type of technique only works when you repeatedly enter the same text. This is the same path that Microsoft has gone down with their "enhanced T9" in several smartphones. What really stinks is that it is almost impossible to enter any divergent text - for example, suppose you want to write "Shell $1.87/gal" or "AMD64 3200+ $207 @ Fry's" - the type of things mobile users write all the time.



    I've got a Treo 600 and I'm pretty happy with it, but I'd much rather have Graffiti. The problem is that the majority of users never enter any text at all, therefore the hardware minimalists are winning the functionality war. It stinks.
  • Reply 64 of 85
    jms698jms698 Posts: 102member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cubist

    Sorry for the double-post. This type of technique only works when you repeatedly enter the same text. This is the same path that Microsoft has gone down with their "enhanced T9" in several smartphones. What really stinks is that it is almost impossible to enter any divergent text - for example, suppose you want to write "Shell $1.87/gal" or "AMD64 3200+ $207 @ Fry's" - the type of things mobile users write all the time.



    I've got a Treo 600 and I'm pretty happy with it, but I'd much rather have Graffiti. The problem is that the majority of users never enter any text at all, therefore the hardware minimalists are winning the functionality war. It stinks.




    Very good point. There seems to be no middle ground between the *idiot*phone and the full-blown corporate office monster. Maybe the iPhone will fill the gap.



    I had an old Palm for a while, but got very frustrated entering text with Graffiti. I found myself just using the on-screen keyboard. I found just tapping the relevant letters much faster than drawing out each graffiti character. So, I think that this kind of pattern drawing text-entry system could work very well on a smartphone.
  • Reply 65 of 85
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by jms698

    Has anyone seen this technology this technology from IBM? Most people can get pretty quick at entering text using something like this. Who needs a keyboard?!



    There also is a demo video.






    It's a good form of gesture writing, and recognition, but it's useless to have a tablet that you can't use your most common apps in without a keyboard. If you were to restrict the use of a tablet just for one small sect of the possible market than fine you would be a happy seller, but any tablet without a keyboard would be totally useless for most mainstream applications. It would have to be a flip screen laptop tablet. Explain to me how a person could use Maya, even photoshop, or any-app that uses keyboard shortcuts, or hot keys on that? You would be stuck in the GUI all day. It would be an extremely improficient workflow. You could never get anything done.



    If I were a meter maid, police officer, or worked for a delivery service, or something I could use that exclusively, but being that I use a lot of professional graphics applications frequently, not having a keyboard would be very destructive to any proficient workflow. Especially knowing such tendencies would find their way back to the workstations.
  • Reply 66 of 85
    iksnooiksnoo Posts: 24member
    The tablet still hasn't found its 'killer app'. Maya or Pshop as you stated... no good. However, Alias Sketch is PERFECT on a tablet. While not a true replacement for Pshop it is an excellent sketching and design tool. These types of applications that have gestural driven interfaces is what are needed on tablets. I don't think a tablet can ever be very useful for an application like Maya or any advanced application without a complete rethinking/retooling of workflow.



    My two cents.



    Gary Haus
  • Reply 67 of 85
    macchinemacchine Posts: 295member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by jms698

    Has anyone seen this technology this technology from IBM? Most people can get pretty quick at entering text using something like this. Who needs a keyboard?!



    There also is a demo video.




    I greatly prefer a table that runs on voice recognition, but only the latest VR tech that runs off of the muscles in the neck, so words don't have to be said out loud just whispered.
  • Reply 68 of 85
    whiterabbitwhiterabbit Posts: 208member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Iksnoo

    I don't think a tablet can ever be very useful for an application like Maya or any advanced application without a complete rethinking/retooling of workflow.



    I'm hoping that that's what Apple does with their tablet. Completely rethink/design the software, changing the way the device is interacted with, and make a keyboard entirely unnecessary. Just like before the iPod and the "wheel," no one would have imagined such an intuative device.



    The tablet computers we have now are shit. In order for Apple's tablet to be really be the best a tablet could be (in my mind,) it must use a pen/stylus as the sole input device (main one anyway), and yet be more productive to use than any folding screen/keyboard tablets we have now.
  • Reply 69 of 85
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by WhiteRabbit

    I'm hoping that that's what Apple does with their tablet. Completely rethink/design the software, changing the way the device is interacted with, and make a keyboard entirely unnecessary. Just like before the iPod and the "wheel," no one would have imagined such an intuative device.



    The tablet computers we have now are shit. In order for Apple's tablet to be really be the best a tablet could be (in my mind,) it must use a pen/stylus as the sole input device (main one anyway), and yet be more productive to use than any folding screen/keyboard tablets we have now.




    LOL Not gonna happen.. Sorry for the negative., but I had to laugh.
  • Reply 70 of 85
    aslan^aslan^ Posts: 599member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by onlooker

    LOL Not gonna happen.. Sorry for the negative., but I had to laugh.



    why not ?
  • Reply 71 of 85
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by AsLan^

    why not ?



    Because like I was trying to explian earlier. Computers are made to run applications. There is no stylus input system that can adiquately replace the Keyboard for 90% of the most common applications there are. That being said Apple has 2% of all computer users. if you take 90% of that 2% away sales of this device will be less than very poor. That would be a bad idea.
  • Reply 72 of 85
    cosmonutcosmonut Posts: 4,872member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by onlooker

    Computers are made to run applications. There is no stylus input system that can adiquately replace the Keyboard for 90% of the most common applications there are.



    That's a little close-minded isn't it? Heck, if anybody can take computing into the next generation (i.e. moving on from the keyboard and mouse), it can and should be Apple.
  • Reply 73 of 85
    aslan^aslan^ Posts: 599member
    I think you missed whiterabbits point...



    Quote:

    Completely rethink/design the software, changing the way the device is interacted with, and make a keyboard entirely unnecessary.



    Just because you think that...



    Quote:

    There is no stylus input system that can adiquately replace the Keyboard for 90% of the most common applications there are.



    ...doesn't make it true, there very well could be, just no one has thought of it yet. That's the whole point of innovation.



    I think if someone could come up with a good, intuitive pickboard it would be very fast, if you've ever used T9 word recognition on a cell phone you'll know that after you get the hang of it, you can type very fast. Eliminating the speed hit from having to handwrite the information on the tablet will encourage more applications to be optimized for tablet use.



    I personally would be interested in a programming language developed specifically to be inputted by tablet, this would be fun for me on my long train rides and I'm sure many other people would be interested in this sort of thing and maybe even find it useful for brainstorming ideas, designing user interfaces, or testing algorithms.
  • Reply 74 of 85
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    It is exasperating, not to mention bizarre, to see the stylus compared to the keyboard only for entering text. Yes, writing is slower than typing. But nearly everything else is much faster and much more intuitive and much more accurate: editing and markup, cursor placement, drawing, diagramming, layout, and just about any form of navigation. It's much easier to place a stylus precisely than a mouse cursor, making interfaces easier to get around in, and you get additional variables to play with like pressure and angle if you want them.



    Not to mention that I know writers whose prose styles change when they write longhand vs. typing.



    If you spend all your time in Word, then you're probably going to lose out. But Xcode and Interface Builder allow you to a great deal of programming visually now, without writing a single line of code. Apps like OmniGraffle could also benefit from a stylus interface. Apps like Logic, that have lots of fidgety little interface elements, would be easier to control with a stylus. And, of course, if you're editing text, all the classic markup gestures familiar to anyone who's done editing can be done much more easily with a stylus—they were all developed for use with pens in the first place. You can have the option of leaving the marks as is, superimposed on the text, or of commanding the word processor to execute them as commands. Or, hell, have the two as views you can choose between. Think about what a pain it is to place images in documents now, vs. just drawing one right in. This makes the tablet great for brainstorming, designing and revising; keyboards are relegated to doing what they do best, which is pounding out text.



    In short, before complaining about what the stylus doesn't do so well, take a moment to think about what the keyboard doesn't do well, and how often its limitations force you to use paper, or just to compromise.



    Now, take it international: Europeans might prefer keyboards, but what about languages like Chinese and Japanese, or Hebrew and Arabic?



    I think a tablet, done right, could be a huge boon, and a sea change in the way people use computers. The problem is that it's very hard to do a tablet right. But the first company to really do it right will make waves. Mark my words.
  • Reply 75 of 85
    whiterabbitwhiterabbit Posts: 208member
    I think that the whole purpose of the tablet computer needs to be adjusted. So they don't work with 90% of current apps, those apps being things like Photoshop, Illustrator, Word, Excel, PPoint, maybe FinalCut. So why would anyone want to have a tablet in the first place? Probably so that they don't have to be sitting at a desk or table, holding it with one hand, working with the other. Basically, so that they may use it like a clipboard. Would I want to be doing high level image touch up while standing up? No. Writing an essay? I don't think so. Taking notes for the essay while researching at the library or interviewing someone? Yes, there it would come in quite handy.



    A tablet is good for doing things that require minimal precise interaction with the computer: skeching out ideas, filling out paperwork digitally. The thing is that there really isn't very much software out there that does this kind of stuff. SketchBook was pointed out earlier and anyone who has used this program would agree that it is nearly a perfect application for a tablet. It isn't a Photoshop replacement, but really, why would anyone want it to be? If you're going to be doing the kind stuff that one does in Photoshop, you probably shouldn't get tablet in the first place.



    I'd like to see more programs like this for tasks like notetaking. Most of the programs out there now are not very good, they're not efficient enough to use without a keyboard. And if you need a keyboard, how about looking into a laptop.
  • Reply 76 of 85
    aries 1baries 1b Posts: 1,009member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Amorph

    It is exasperating, not to mention bizarre, to see the stylus compared to the keyboard only for entering text. Yes, writing is slower than typing. But nearly everything else is much faster and much more intuitive and much more accurate: editing and markup, cursor placement, drawing, diagramming, layout, and just about any form of navigation. It's much easier to place a stylus precisely than a mouse cursor, making interfaces easier to get around in, and you get additional variables to play with like pressure and angle if you want them.



    Not to mention that I know writers whose prose styles change when they write longhand vs. typing.



    If you spend all your time in Word, then you're probably going to lose out. But Xcode and Interface Builder allow you to a great deal of programming visually now, without writing a single line of code. Apps like OmniGraffle could also benefit from a stylus interface. Apps like Logic, that have lots of fidgety little interface elements, would be easier to control with a stylus. And, of course, if you're editing text, all the classic markup gestures familiar to anyone who's done editing can be done much more easily with a stylus—they were all developed for use with pens in the first place. You can have the option of leaving the marks as is, superimposed on the text, or of commanding the word processor to execute them as commands. Or, hell, have the two as views you can choose between. Think about what a pain it is to place images in documents now, vs. just drawing one right in. This makes the tablet great for brainstorming, designing and revising; keyboards are relegated to doing what they do best, which is pounding out text.



    In short, before complaining about what the stylus doesn't do so well, take a moment to think about what the keyboard doesn't do well, and how often its limitations force you to use paper, or just to compromise.



    Now, take it international: Europeans might prefer keyboards, but what about languages like Chinese and Japanese, or Hebrew and Arabic?



    I think a tablet, done right, could be a huge boon, and a sea change in the way people use computers. The problem is that it's very hard to do a tablet right. But the first company to really do it right will make waves. Mark my words.




    Exactly. Freakin' exactly. Hell on earth is navigating large spreadsheets with a keyboard.



    Walk around and use your laptop some time, too. That's a blast, that is.



    EDIT: Wrote that last sentence before I saw WhiteRabbit's post above. Well written, 'Rabbit.



    V/R,



    Aries 1B
  • Reply 77 of 85
    rongoldrongold Posts: 302member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Rhumgod

    Christ why?!?!?! The first I read of it was at The Register going on four years. Grow up.



    Well four years ago there was no technology in place to support such a device. At that point it was merely considered fantasy. Now, after everyone has been crying wolf for the last 4 years, all the signs and evidence are being ignored.



    Sooo... I'll just keep adding to my growing list of evidence that points to just such a development.



    Todays little tidbit:



    Many seem to not realize what Apple's webkit can do. It is currently used in Safari (both 1.3 and 2.0), Mail, iTunes and Widgets and probably some applications I am not aware of. The capability to use this functionality for your very own lets you or some developer build an app using HTML, CSS, and Javascript. All these apps could conceivably be served out using any machine running Tiger with XGrid if I'm not mistaken. You could have your very own Tiger widget running on some little handheld device (working as a detachable client) submitting jobs and then receiving notification and results from your desktop.
  • Reply 78 of 85
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by AsLan^

    I think you missed whiterabbits point...







    Just because you think that...







    ...doesn't make it true, there very well could be, just no one has thought of it yet. That's the whole point of innovation.



    I think if someone could come up with a good, intuitive pickboard it would be very fast, if you've ever used T9 word recognition on a cell phone you'll know that after you get the hang of it, you can type very fast. Eliminating the speed hit from having to handwrite the information on the tablet will encourage more applications to be optimized for tablet use.



    I personally would be interested in a programming language developed specifically to be inputted by tablet, this would be fun for me on my long train rides and I'm sure many other people would be interested in this sort of thing and maybe even find it useful for brainstorming ideas, designing user interfaces, or testing algorithms.








    That really has so little to with what I said. The more interface, and tools you have he more shortcuts, and hot keys you need to use the tools available. T9 isn't going to sh*t to help that. Unless you want to use the GUI all day, and like I said earlier - It would be an extremely improficient graphics workflow. Only primitive sketch apps like sketchbook pro would be usable. IN most cases you would never get anything done. The bad habits would also make their way back to the workstations, and then your problems are about meeting deadlines with no where near enough work done to get an extension. You need to understand the pen on a computer is used in more ways than it is used in the office, but if you take those ways into consideration you can not get rid of the keyboard. I don't even think it's wise to remove it for Office apps really.
  • Reply 79 of 85
    aslan^aslan^ Posts: 599member
    I was attacking your idea that it is not worth trying to develop pen based input or software because you assert that the pinnacle has already been reached.



    I personally use a Zaurus for writing code on the train and I am interested in improving pen based interfaces, it should be noted that I use the Zaurus' keyboard for inputting the data. However, I am definately open to trying out new ways of doing things... if they dont work for me then I'll stick with what Ive got.
  • Reply 80 of 85
    rongoldrongold Posts: 302member
    This is speculation of course, but what if Apple were to release a small tablet device with flash memory instead of a hard drive. It could use those 2 or 4 GB Flash chips and you can fit all of OS X in about 1 GB. Maybe a small drive in conjuction to accomodate the limitations of flash memory. That still leaves a lot of room for other stuff. Perhaps these chips were mistakenly reported to be used in an iPod Shuffle when in fact it was to be a tablet, which is still a small hand held device.



    But now there IS plenty of room for other stuff like wireless technologies. And battery life would go through the roof; well... you could at least afford to power more screen realestate anyway.



    I can't believe people don't buy this tablet idea. Look at the iMac. It is just a glorified tablet with a stand. The internal design in that thing is impeccable. Take out the superdrive and the modem and the big hard drive and all the ports and the power transformer and... all the things you won't need in a portable tablet ? it is suddenly a lot smaller.
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