You guys have an interesting flavor of RDF. Steve Jobs doesn't have a thing on you.
Good God. You don't even hear yourself, do you?
HD-DVD should hire you to be their poster boy.
And pre-orders mean absolutely nothing.
Think about the people who pre-ordered a Griffin FireWave when it was announced January 12, 2005 ("...for shipment beginning in the second quarter of 2005.")
Right now HD DVD isn't half the cost of anything because there are no products. Similarly there are no Blu-Ray products for sale.
Isn't it true that Press Release from both platforms have been issued with the cheapest Blu Ray device at $995 and the cheapest HD DVD device at $499?
Quote:
and there is no evidence yet that a HD DVD player is inherently cheaper.
Of course there's evidence that HD DVD is cheaper. Perhaps not "inherently" as that cannot be proven without being an insider. But pre-order are being taken for players at $499 and Blu Ray has nothing to offer. Sony, Panasonic, Mitsubishi and others weren't even prepared to offer pricing. As a consumer that would really worry me for a format that "was" supposed to kill HD DVD on arrival.
Quote:
The PS3 price of under $500 was as much a promise of price as that from Toshiba.
Sony could be waiting to announce PS3 pricing but the best they can hope for is parity with Blu Ray. Remember that before CES 2006 everyone thought HD DVD would also be a $1000. Now even if the PS3 hits at $499 it's still only equal to that of HD DVD. A whole new ballgame folks.
Quote:
Both sides have delayed their products, although Blu-Ray certainly less than HD-DVD. Hardly a victory for anybody so far and those people claiming otherwise look obsessive.
Not really obsessive. I debate to win. I've done more research on the two formats and listened to the right people and thus events that have transpired at CES 2006 have done more to strengthen my claims than weaken them.
If HD DVD dies in the long run I'll have no problem with it because the best format will be chosen by the people and not some oligarchy of companies.
Think about the people who pre-ordered a Griffin FireWave when it was announced January 12, 2005 ("...for shipment beginning in the second quarter of 2005.")
1. Lots of fake demos. In the BD area, there was a PC with clear case so that one could see the BD drive in there from a major BD company. It was playing BD content supposed to the LCD next to it. Touched the front drive, it didn?t feel like it was doing anything. Pushed the eject button, the drawer opens, no BD disc in there but the movie still plays!
2. Lots of fake demos take 2. Half the so called CE players had the same logo ?BD PLAYER? in the LCD. In some cases the counter was stopped. In others, it appears to be counting up. When folks weren?t looking, I hit pause and the movie would keep playing! I did this on more than 3 separate BD players and all did the same!
3. Lots of fake demos take 3. Two major vendors had huge side-by-side shows with large screen LCDs/Plasma showing the difference between BD and standard DVD. I hit pause and in both cases, the BD side kept playing. Did the same on DVD side and the movie stopped!
The Digital Bits is going to have a full HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray report up soon but from the sound of things Blu-Ray dominated to show. Not surprising considering the studio and manufacturer support behind it. They have been platform agnostic in the past and have been in favor of a unified format so it should be interesting to hear what they have to say. The report is supposed to be up later on today.
I'll have lots more to say later this evening and tomorrow, but let me just tell you this much now: the buzz at CES 2006 was all about Blu-ray Disc. For virtually everyone I spoke with, from hardware reps to studio execs to random, run-of-the-mill attendees on the convention floor, Blu-ray had people talking. I have to tell you this as well: Having seen all the displays, talked the tech and kicked the tires a little bit, Blu-ray Disc has me genuinely excited again - more than I've been in a long while, since back in the early days of DVD, when Divx finally threw in the towel and our current favorite home video format really took off.
In the meantime take a look at their pictures from the show floor. Six pages in all. They weren't kidding. Blu-Ray really did seem to dominate the show.
Speaking of subterfuge, notice any similarities between the budget HD-DVD player from Toshiba and the one from RCA? Take a look at the drawer and button placement.
Looks like Toshiba is manufacturing the RCA player for them or maybe RCA is manufacturing it for Toshiba. Hell, maybe some third party manufacturer in China is making them for both companies. That could explain how Toshiba went from $1200 just a few months ago down to $500 this week. Interesting. Very interesting.
Yeah, and a lot desperation being posted here by you
LOL. Please....I've been the only one sticking to my guns about HD DVD against a bunch of Blu Ray drones. Now the pendulum swings a bit in my direction leading credence to my prior statements and "I'm" desperate?
Blu Ray was supposed to kill off HD DVD and more than half the players are still listed as prototypes with no pricing. The BD recordable discs cost .80 per gigabyte
Quote:
And a pre-order is not more than we have with Blu-ray because like Telomar already stated there are no products available yet.
So If you pre-order a new Macintosh tomorrow at the Apple store that means nothing?
You guys just cannot admit that the hyperbolic statements made by so many were wrong. I'm not saying I'm right because things can and will change but you guys haven't proven that I'm wrong either and the "momentum" is on my side. I'm one of the lone voices supporting HD DVD not because everyone else is supporting Blu Ray but because I looked at the formats from an impartial standpoint and thought HD DVD to me the most sane choice for movie delivery based on cost vs features.
Sure I've sounded a little arrogant but that's just me ribbing some of the BR fans. However the rebuttals I'm getting are pretty weak.
"a preorder means nothing"
LOL...it's more than the blu ray fan has at this point.
Speaking of subterfuge, notice any similarities between the budget HD-DVD player from Toshiba and the one from RCA? Take a look at the drawer and button placement.
Reference design. Thomson's HD DVD looks the same as well. I think the only unique HD DVD that I've seen are
Sanyo's model and LG's model. Looking forward to getting pricing on these models.
You guys just cannot admit that the hyperbolic statements made by so many were wrong. I'm not saying I'm right because things can and will change but you guys haven't proven that I'm wrong either and the "momentum" is on my side.
Lets see if I can get your argument. Everybody else's hyperbole is wrong but yours isn't wrong? Hmm... That's a sane argument. They call that personality disorder narcissism
At the end of the day your argument is over two unreleased products. Companies on both sides still have plenty of time to change prices as neither has shipped an actual product and neither has fully working production units. A $500 PS3 is still going to be a massive boon for Blu-ray and unlikely the cheapest player. Who will will is for the ages to decide but it won't be consumers.
if someone puts out a blu-ray player at around 500-700 dollars dont you think the hd-dvd manufacturers could release for less? hell the player could drop to 200-300 dollars by this summer.
Nope, sure don't. Why?, economies of scale. Face it, this is the proverbial stake which will be thrust through the heart of HD-DVD. HD-DVD simply and truthfully does NOT have the amount of consumer electronics backing that Blu-Ray does, nor studio support. PS3 is expected to be $399 or $499, output 1080P, and feature the Cell processor with a kick-ass RSX graphics engine from NVIDIA;enough said, HD-DVD is done. A couple more months, and you will know this as a reality. You act as if the PS3 will never see the light of day--a very weak assumption. What more do you need to know about the PS3? Do you need closure on the price alone? Patience, you'll get it--the price--soon enough and there are strategies involved as you must be aware. Just because Sony hasn't disclosed the price doesn't equate to "you don't know shit about the PS3 yet." Moreover, I wouldn't be suprised if Toshiba was already selling their HD-DVD player at $500 at a loss in their act of desperation. At least with the PS3, this type of act--selling at a loss--is expected and is the norm as Sony will recoup costs through purchases of games and add-ons just as Microsoft does with their XBox.
Quote:
Price trumps all people. The best you can do right now is merely match HD DVD pricing. I've told you all along Blu Ray was going to be expensive and you rebuffed me with economies of scale arguements and other blather. After CES I've even more inclined to go with my intuition over your statements. Haven't led me wrong yet.
Wrong, and there are many examples where this logic is dead wrong. You don't have to go any farther than look at the example of Apple's iPod. Apple wasn't selling iPods like their cheap mp3 counterparts from the likes of Rio, Creative, and Dell, were they? All of the companies had and have cheaper music players available than the iPod, but nonetheless, Apple is still dominant. How is that so, if "price trumps all?" Your argument is a result of blind partiality. Speaking of partiality...
Quote:
I'm one of the lone voices supporting HD DVD not because everyone else is supporting Blu Ray but because I looked at the formats from an impartial standpoint and thought HD DVD to me the most sane choice for movie delivery based on cost vs features.
Pffffffft! Please! Seriously, I almost dropped a deuce right here in my chair because I was laughing so hard when I read this. The only reason you are "one of the lone voices supporting HD-DVD" is because of your gross partiality for HD-DVD and your inherent knack of dismissing facts. I'm not sure if it stems from your distaste of Sony whom we've already established as a company that you just don't like, or if it is something else. Maybe because you get your information from a Microsoft employee over at AVS is why you are so impartial (Sacrcasm inserted here)...? In any case, impartial would definitely not be the word I would describe your "sole" argument to be which is price. And, as I've already stated, price does NOT trump all and if you are indeed impartial as you claim to be you would realize that the facts--more consumer electronics backing, more studio support and movies, better quality (1080P vs 1080i), more storage space, and more durability--are all going for Blu-Ray which gives it its "momentum." If you expect us to believe that by HD-DVD announcing a low price point in what is a first adopter/cream-of-the-crop market (see Telomar's argument as $500 for just a player alone is still too high for mass adoption) will give HD-DVD momentum, you are just fooling yourself.
Quote:
Sony could be waiting to announce PS3 pricing but the best they can hope for is parity with Blu Ray. Remember that before CES 2006 everyone thought HD DVD would also be a $1000. Now even if the PS3 hits at $499 it's still only equal to that of HD DVD. A whole new ballgame folks.
Nonsense. There is no equality. How is a standalone HD-DVD player equal to a PS3 which is a Blu-Ray player and a gaming console, and one that will have internet gaming capabilities (and that may be even selling at $399)? Answer, they're not, nice try. Again, take your average consumer when they walk into your local Best Buy, they see the Toshiba--how can you miss it, it's big--HD-DVD player, and a bit down the way, they see a sleeker, smaller, PS3. Which one are they going to choose? The clunky player that can only play movies (at only 1080i mind you) or the sleeker, smaller PS3 that will play Blu-Ray movies at 1080P? Huuuugh? What's this? The walls are covered with Blu-Ray movies too! (Since they have more studio backing.) You do the math, the consumer will more than likely choose the PS3. Moreover, there will be cheaper Blu-Ray players and many more varieties and quantities than HD-DVD players soon enough, so don't go thinking Toshiba and company have the format war all locked up based on an initial price point. Or actually, you go ahead and do that, buy your Toshiba player, and tell me if you feel good about your purchase two years from now, since you are feeling so confident.
Quote:
If HD DVD dies in the long run I'll have no problem with it because the best format will be chosen by the people and not some oligarchy of companies.
Sounds to me someone is trying to have it both ways or simply sounding like someone who isn't as confident has he states, so when his beloved format does fail, he can always say, "Well, I have no problem with it because...blah, blah, blah." By the way, the oligarchy with a touch of monarchy (Microsoft)here would be Toshiba and Microsoft as it--an oligarchy--is rule or government by a faction or a few. The oligarchy of computer companies that you allude to being Blu-Ray companies are, in comparitive terms, many. The oligarchy label, therefore doesn't really apply for Blu-Ray.
Comparing Pioneer Elite prices with low end Toshiba is a bit odd. The DVL-90 Elite LD Player MSRP was $1,750...about double that of my 704 if memory serves me correctly.
Likewise the first Sony DVD player, the DVP-S7000, was arguably the best of the 1st gen DVD players and priced accordingly at $1000 MSRP. The least expensive DVD players were at the $500 price point.
The correct comparison between the Elite and Sony isn't with the HD-A1 at $499 but the HD-XA1 at $799. Sony and Pioneer Elite have better name recognition and better percieved build quality IMHO than Toshiba based on the "best-in-class" reputation of Elite LD line and the DVP-S7000. A $200 premium isn't overly surprising in that context.
Personally, unless Sony really screws up the PS3 launch its no contest. I want a PS3 for gaming. I don't care as much about either HD-DVD or BR given none of my display devices support HDCP (including my front projector, LCD TV, etc).
Penalties of being an early adopter.
Eventually I'll replace one or anther display device. Then my BR player is $0 cost. Until then I'll live with upconverted DVD, HD-DVR and games.
As far as converting soundwaves into data, yes, the ear is nothing mroe than a biological machine. The mechanics of the ear are also quite analogous to the workings of a spectrum analyzer (or oscilloscope). Whether or not something "sounds better" is purely subjective. This I do not argue. However, whether or not something "sounds truer" is the case at hand, and it is a case of objective measure.
Relax, guys. If hmurchison wants to dig his hole deeper, that's his perogative. I mean, why would it matter if he pushes a less popular format. It's not like popularity has anything to do with market success, right?
Just sit back and when the dust has finally settled, we can all have a nice time thrashing Mr. "I'm never wrong" hmurchison, despite all his claims of "I don't really care who wins." BTW, has anyone noticed that he keeps calling it "Blu Ray"? Interesting, considering the trademark is Blu-ray. I thought he knew everything?
Personally, I'm waiting for word of Toshiba's next delay, namely the ship date of that first player. Or better yet, I think they'll pull a Microsoft. They'll push so hard to get those players out the door on time to beat Blu-ray to market that there'll be problems with them.
Reference design. Thomson's HD DVD looks the same as well. I think the only unique HD DVD that I've seen are Sanyo's model and LG's model. Looking forward to getting pricing on these models.
Just an FYI but Thomson is RCA. The player is being marketed under the Thomson label in Europe and under the RCA label in the US.
It does appear that Thomson or someone else they contracted is manufacturing these for Toshiba as well. So the question is not would you spend $500 for a Toshiba player but would you spend $500 for an RCA player since they are one and the same. It's funny that three of the HD-DVD players are actually the same model. Reminds me of Ford/Mercury in the 1990's.
Comments
Originally posted by hmurchison
You guys have an interesting flavor of RDF. Steve Jobs doesn't have a thing on you.
Good God. You don't even hear yourself, do you?
HD-DVD should hire you to be their poster boy.
And pre-orders mean absolutely nothing.
Think about the people who pre-ordered a Griffin FireWave when it was announced January 12, 2005 ("...for shipment beginning in the second quarter of 2005.")
Still hasn't shipped.
And did you happen to see the story on /. about the failed HD-DVD product demo at CES?
a failed product demo?
like this hasn't happened to everyone.
Right now HD DVD isn't half the cost of anything because there are no products. Similarly there are no Blu-Ray products for sale.
Isn't it true that Press Release from both platforms have been issued with the cheapest Blu Ray device at $995 and the cheapest HD DVD device at $499?
and there is no evidence yet that a HD DVD player is inherently cheaper.
Of course there's evidence that HD DVD is cheaper. Perhaps not "inherently" as that cannot be proven without being an insider. But pre-order are being taken for players at $499 and Blu Ray has nothing to offer. Sony, Panasonic, Mitsubishi and others weren't even prepared to offer pricing. As a consumer that would really worry me for a format that "was" supposed to kill HD DVD on arrival.
The PS3 price of under $500 was as much a promise of price as that from Toshiba.
Sony could be waiting to announce PS3 pricing but the best they can hope for is parity with Blu Ray. Remember that before CES 2006 everyone thought HD DVD would also be a $1000. Now even if the PS3 hits at $499 it's still only equal to that of HD DVD. A whole new ballgame folks.
Both sides have delayed their products, although Blu-Ray certainly less than HD-DVD. Hardly a victory for anybody so far and those people claiming otherwise look obsessive.
Not really obsessive. I debate to win. I've done more research on the two formats and listened to the right people and thus events that have transpired at CES 2006 have done more to strengthen my claims than weaken them.
If HD DVD dies in the long run I'll have no problem with it because the best format will be chosen by the people and not some oligarchy of companies.
Originally posted by Cake
Good God. You don't even hear yourself, do you?
HD-DVD should hire you to be their poster boy.
And pre-orders mean absolutely nothing.
Think about the people who pre-ordered a Griffin FireWave when it was announced January 12, 2005 ("...for shipment beginning in the second quarter of 2005.")
Still hasn't shipped.
And did you happen to see the story on /. about the failed HD-DVD product demo at CES?
A pre-order is more than you have with Blu Ray. Also keep in mind that Toshiba is a wee bit bigger than Griffin Technology.
Nice link...try this one on for size
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post6876661
1. Lots of fake demos. In the BD area, there was a PC with clear case so that one could see the BD drive in there from a major BD company. It was playing BD content supposed to the LCD next to it. Touched the front drive, it didn?t feel like it was doing anything. Pushed the eject button, the drawer opens, no BD disc in there but the movie still plays!
2. Lots of fake demos take 2. Half the so called CE players had the same logo ?BD PLAYER? in the LCD. In some cases the counter was stopped. In others, it appears to be counting up. When folks weren?t looking, I hit pause and the movie would keep playing! I did this on more than 3 separate BD players and all did the same!
3. Lots of fake demos take 3. Two major vendors had huge side-by-side shows with large screen LCDs/Plasma showing the difference between BD and standard DVD. I hit pause and in both cases, the BD side kept playing. Did the same on DVD side and the movie stopped!
whole lot of subterfuge going on.
So, we're supposed to believe a guy on the AVS Forums who is "squarely in HD DVD camp, looking for where BD went wrong".
You mean he actually touched the front of the drive and couldn't detect that anything was spinning in there! Oh my!
And a pre-order is not more than we have with Blu-ray because like Telomar already stated there are no products available yet.
Nothing of nothing really equals nothing.
The Digital Bits is going to have a full HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray report up soon but from the sound of things Blu-Ray dominated to show. Not surprising considering the studio and manufacturer support behind it. They have been platform agnostic in the past and have been in favor of a unified format so it should be interesting to hear what they have to say. The report is supposed to be up later on today.
I'll have lots more to say later this evening and tomorrow, but let me just tell you this much now: the buzz at CES 2006 was all about Blu-ray Disc. For virtually everyone I spoke with, from hardware reps to studio execs to random, run-of-the-mill attendees on the convention floor, Blu-ray had people talking. I have to tell you this as well: Having seen all the displays, talked the tech and kicked the tires a little bit, Blu-ray Disc has me genuinely excited again - more than I've been in a long while, since back in the early days of DVD, when Divx finally threw in the towel and our current favorite home video format really took off.
In the meantime take a look at their pictures from the show floor. Six pages in all. They weren't kidding. Blu-Ray really did seem to dominate the show.
Looks like Toshiba is manufacturing the RCA player for them or maybe RCA is manufacturing it for Toshiba. Hell, maybe some third party manufacturer in China is making them for both companies. That could explain how Toshiba went from $1200 just a few months ago down to $500 this week. Interesting. Very interesting.
Originally posted by hmurchison
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...onics&v=glance
#818 in electronics sales rank yesterday,
dropped to #1114 today.
I don't think that too many people are pre-ordering the unit.
Yeah, and a lot desperation being posted here by you
LOL. Please....I've been the only one sticking to my guns about HD DVD against a bunch of Blu Ray drones. Now the pendulum swings a bit in my direction leading credence to my prior statements and "I'm" desperate?
Blu Ray was supposed to kill off HD DVD and more than half the players are still listed as prototypes with no pricing. The BD recordable discs cost .80 per gigabyte
And a pre-order is not more than we have with Blu-ray because like Telomar already stated there are no products available yet.
So If you pre-order a new Macintosh tomorrow at the Apple store that means nothing?
You guys just cannot admit that the hyperbolic statements made by so many were wrong. I'm not saying I'm right because things can and will change but you guys haven't proven that I'm wrong either and the "momentum" is on my side. I'm one of the lone voices supporting HD DVD not because everyone else is supporting Blu Ray but because I looked at the formats from an impartial standpoint and thought HD DVD to me the most sane choice for movie delivery based on cost vs features.
Sure I've sounded a little arrogant but that's just me ribbing some of the BR fans. However the rebuttals I'm getting are pretty weak.
"a preorder means nothing"
LOL...it's more than the blu ray fan has at this point.
Originally posted by e1618978
#818 in electronics sales rank yesterday,
dropped to #1114 today.
I don't think that too many people are pre-ordering the unit.
Where's Blu Ray at on that list?
Speaking of subterfuge, notice any similarities between the budget HD-DVD player from Toshiba and the one from RCA? Take a look at the drawer and button placement.
Reference design. Thomson's HD DVD looks the same as well. I think the only unique HD DVD that I've seen are
Sanyo's model and LG's model. Looking forward to getting pricing on these models.
i dont see the justification on going blu-ray at this point.
Originally posted by hmurchison
You guys just cannot admit that the hyperbolic statements made by so many were wrong. I'm not saying I'm right because things can and will change but you guys haven't proven that I'm wrong either and the "momentum" is on my side.
Lets see if I can get your argument. Everybody else's hyperbole is wrong but yours isn't wrong? Hmm... That's a sane argument. They call that personality disorder narcissism
At the end of the day your argument is over two unreleased products. Companies on both sides still have plenty of time to change prices as neither has shipped an actual product and neither has fully working production units. A $500 PS3 is still going to be a massive boon for Blu-ray and unlikely the cheapest player. Who will will is for the ages to decide but it won't be consumers.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Where's Blu Ray at on that list?
Put a pre-order page in for the PS3, and I bet it would rocket to #1.
1984- you make too many bold statements.
you dont know shit about the ps3 yet.
if someone puts out a blu-ray player at around 500-700 dollars dont you think the hd-dvd manufacturers could release for less? hell the player could drop to 200-300 dollars by this summer.
Nope, sure don't. Why?, economies of scale. Face it, this is the proverbial stake which will be thrust through the heart of HD-DVD. HD-DVD simply and truthfully does NOT have the amount of consumer electronics backing that Blu-Ray does, nor studio support. PS3 is expected to be $399 or $499, output 1080P, and feature the Cell processor with a kick-ass RSX graphics engine from NVIDIA;enough said, HD-DVD is done. A couple more months, and you will know this as a reality. You act as if the PS3 will never see the light of day--a very weak assumption. What more do you need to know about the PS3? Do you need closure on the price alone? Patience, you'll get it--the price--soon enough and there are strategies involved as you must be aware. Just because Sony hasn't disclosed the price doesn't equate to "you don't know shit about the PS3 yet." Moreover, I wouldn't be suprised if Toshiba was already selling their HD-DVD player at $500 at a loss in their act of desperation. At least with the PS3, this type of act--selling at a loss--is expected and is the norm as Sony will recoup costs through purchases of games and add-ons just as Microsoft does with their XBox.
Price trumps all people. The best you can do right now is merely match HD DVD pricing. I've told you all along Blu Ray was going to be expensive and you rebuffed me with economies of scale arguements and other blather. After CES I've even more inclined to go with my intuition over your statements. Haven't led me wrong yet.
Wrong, and there are many examples where this logic is dead wrong. You don't have to go any farther than look at the example of Apple's iPod. Apple wasn't selling iPods like their cheap mp3 counterparts from the likes of Rio, Creative, and Dell, were they? All of the companies had and have cheaper music players available than the iPod, but nonetheless, Apple is still dominant. How is that so, if "price trumps all?" Your argument is a result of blind partiality. Speaking of partiality...
I'm one of the lone voices supporting HD DVD not because everyone else is supporting Blu Ray but because I looked at the formats from an impartial standpoint and thought HD DVD to me the most sane choice for movie delivery based on cost vs features.
Pffffffft! Please! Seriously, I almost dropped a deuce right here in my chair because I was laughing so hard when I read this. The only reason you are "one of the lone voices supporting HD-DVD" is because of your gross partiality for HD-DVD and your inherent knack of dismissing facts. I'm not sure if it stems from your distaste of Sony whom we've already established as a company that you just don't like, or if it is something else. Maybe because you get your information from a Microsoft employee over at AVS is why you are so impartial (Sacrcasm inserted here)...? In any case, impartial would definitely not be the word I would describe your "sole" argument to be which is price. And, as I've already stated, price does NOT trump all and if you are indeed impartial as you claim to be you would realize that the facts--more consumer electronics backing, more studio support and movies, better quality (1080P vs 1080i), more storage space, and more durability--are all going for Blu-Ray which gives it its "momentum." If you expect us to believe that by HD-DVD announcing a low price point in what is a first adopter/cream-of-the-crop market (see Telomar's argument as $500 for just a player alone is still too high for mass adoption) will give HD-DVD momentum, you are just fooling yourself.
Sony could be waiting to announce PS3 pricing but the best they can hope for is parity with Blu Ray. Remember that before CES 2006 everyone thought HD DVD would also be a $1000. Now even if the PS3 hits at $499 it's still only equal to that of HD DVD. A whole new ballgame folks.
Nonsense. There is no equality. How is a standalone HD-DVD player equal to a PS3 which is a Blu-Ray player and a gaming console, and one that will have internet gaming capabilities (and that may be even selling at $399)? Answer, they're not, nice try. Again, take your average consumer when they walk into your local Best Buy, they see the Toshiba--how can you miss it, it's big--HD-DVD player, and a bit down the way, they see a sleeker, smaller, PS3. Which one are they going to choose? The clunky player that can only play movies (at only 1080i mind you) or the sleeker, smaller PS3 that will play Blu-Ray movies at 1080P? Huuuugh? What's this? The walls are covered with Blu-Ray movies too! (Since they have more studio backing.) You do the math, the consumer will more than likely choose the PS3. Moreover, there will be cheaper Blu-Ray players and many more varieties and quantities than HD-DVD players soon enough, so don't go thinking Toshiba and company have the format war all locked up based on an initial price point. Or actually, you go ahead and do that, buy your Toshiba player, and tell me if you feel good about your purchase two years from now, since you are feeling so confident.
If HD DVD dies in the long run I'll have no problem with it because the best format will be chosen by the people and not some oligarchy of companies.
Sounds to me someone is trying to have it both ways or simply sounding like someone who isn't as confident has he states, so when his beloved format does fail, he can always say, "Well, I have no problem with it because...blah, blah, blah." By the way, the oligarchy with a touch of monarchy (Microsoft)here would be Toshiba and Microsoft as it--an oligarchy--is rule or government by a faction or a few. The oligarchy of computer companies that you allude to being Blu-Ray companies are, in comparitive terms, many. The oligarchy label, therefore doesn't really apply for Blu-Ray.
Likewise the first Sony DVD player, the DVP-S7000, was arguably the best of the 1st gen DVD players and priced accordingly at $1000 MSRP. The least expensive DVD players were at the $500 price point.
The correct comparison between the Elite and Sony isn't with the HD-A1 at $499 but the HD-XA1 at $799. Sony and Pioneer Elite have better name recognition and better percieved build quality IMHO than Toshiba based on the "best-in-class" reputation of Elite LD line and the DVP-S7000. A $200 premium isn't overly surprising in that context.
Personally, unless Sony really screws up the PS3 launch its no contest. I want a PS3 for gaming. I don't care as much about either HD-DVD or BR given none of my display devices support HDCP (including my front projector, LCD TV, etc).
Penalties of being an early adopter.
Eventually I'll replace one or anther display device. Then my BR player is $0 cost. Until then I'll live with upconverted DVD, HD-DVR and games.
Vinea
Originally posted by 1984
You're not a machine. Are you?
As far as converting soundwaves into data, yes, the ear is nothing mroe than a biological machine. The mechanics of the ear are also quite analogous to the workings of a spectrum analyzer (or oscilloscope). Whether or not something "sounds better" is purely subjective. This I do not argue. However, whether or not something "sounds truer" is the case at hand, and it is a case of objective measure.
Just sit back and when the dust has finally settled, we can all have a nice time thrashing Mr. "I'm never wrong" hmurchison, despite all his claims of "I don't really care who wins." BTW, has anyone noticed that he keeps calling it "Blu Ray"? Interesting, considering the trademark is Blu-ray. I thought he knew everything?
Personally, I'm waiting for word of Toshiba's next delay, namely the ship date of that first player. Or better yet, I think they'll pull a Microsoft. They'll push so hard to get those players out the door on time to beat Blu-ray to market that there'll be problems with them.
Originally posted by hmurchison
So If you pre-order a new Macintosh tomorrow at the Apple store that means nothing?
It does if it's threee months in advance. A lot can go wrong during that time.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Reference design. Thomson's HD DVD looks the same as well. I think the only unique HD DVD that I've seen are Sanyo's model and LG's model. Looking forward to getting pricing on these models.
Just an FYI but Thomson is RCA. The player is being marketed under the Thomson label in Europe and under the RCA label in the US.
It does appear that Thomson or someone else they contracted is manufacturing these for Toshiba as well. So the question is not would you spend $500 for a Toshiba player but would you spend $500 for an RCA player since they are one and the same. It's funny that three of the HD-DVD players are actually the same model. Reminds me of Ford/Mercury in the 1990's.