Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD (2006)

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  • Reply 241 of 2106
    Sony is now saying they will not be utilizing the Image Constraint Token in their Blu-ray disc releases, so full resolution signals will be passed over analog (component) connectors. With the ICT enabled, resolution over component would be cut in half. Now Fox, Buena Vista and Paramount have also said they won't use the ICT; they're taking a wait-and-see stance to see if piracy becomes a problem.



    No similar word from the HD-DVD camp. Blu-ray apparently contains an additional "watermark" that reportedly survives conversion to analog, so ICT may not be necessary.



    If I can get full resolution via component from Blu-ray, that ends the argument right there for me. Or will HD-DVD have to make some similar concession to those of us with "non-compliant" displays?
  • Reply 242 of 2106
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,438member
    Quote:

    If I can get full resolution via component from Blu-ray, that ends the argument right there for me. Or will HD-DVD have to make some similar concession to those of us with "non-compliant" displays?



    ICT is a choice made by the Studio not the platform. Thus if Warner chooses not to use it then they won't enable on either platform. There's a possibility that ICT could be enabled on purchases that didn't initially contain them should piracy really become an issue.
  • Reply 243 of 2106
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    ICT is a choice made by the Studio not the platform. Thus if Warner chooses not to use it then they won't enable on either platform. There's a possibility that ICT could be enabled on purchases that didn't initially contain them should piracy really become an issue.



    I understand that; my point is that the news about holding off on ICT referred only to Blu-ray releases. Will, say, Paramount, which has announced titles for both formats, use ICT for their HD releases but not Blu-ray? That's why I asked if the additional BD watermark meant ICT might not be seen as necessary on Blu-ray.



    Really, what I want to know is: will the decision by other studios to hold off on ICT force those shysters at Warners to do the same? They're the ones with the titles I want, and they've been the most vocal about ICT.
  • Reply 244 of 2106
    marzetta7marzetta7 Posts: 1,323member
    Rumor: PS3 to sell for $389...



    http://www.ps3news.ca/03232006/21/ru...ail_for_389_99

    Quote:

    According to an EB Games empolyee, the PS3 will sell for $389.99



    Earlier today we received an email from a reader who took some time to head over to his local EB Games Store in Toronto where he had the opportunity to chat with the store manager about the PS3. Strangely enough, the EB manager seemed to know a fair bit about the PS3 launch and reluctantly let a few things slip.



    When asked when someone can pre-order the PS3, the EB employee replied that EB Games stores in Canada will not even consider taking pre-orders until the E3 is out of the way. Adding that pre-orders could start in June.



    He also slipped in a couple of dates. One being November 11th as the PS3 launch date, and November 22nd as a possible Nintendo Revolution Launch date



    Perhaps most interestingly, the store manager revealed that they already have a SKU for the new console. When asked what price tag will be attached to the SKU, he replied $389.99(CDN). Considering the costs of manufacturing the PS3 are enormous, a price tag under $400 seems rather surprising. According to the Eb Games store manager, ?each PS3 sale is being subsidized by the big Blu-ray backers including the big movie studios, so at the end of day Sony can undercut Microsoft and not lose massive of amounts of money per unit.?



    Of course we can?t verify if any of this information is true, but if it is, a $-400 price tag would be great. However with the GDC now all but over the next time we hear anything official from Sony likely wont be until the E3 in May.



  • Reply 245 of 2106
    marzetta7marzetta7 Posts: 1,323member
    Phil Harrison answers some questions regarding PS3...



    http://ps3.ign.com/articles/697/697725p1.html

    Quote:

    GDC 06: Phil Harrison Q&A Info

    The man behind the software answers a ton of PS3-related questions.

    by Chris Roper

    March 22, 2006 - After this morning's Sony keynote address, Phil Harrison held a brief Q&A with the press to answer a few questions and clear up any lingering misunderstandings about Sony's recent announcements. There are still some mysteries about, but the meeting was certainly productive and gave way to some new info.



    One of the first questions presented to the president of Sony's Worldwide Studios was with regards to the system 60GB hard drive and whether or not it will actually be included with the system. Harrison answered that it will undoubtedly be a key component of the system and that developers should program titles assuming that the drive is there, but being that his role is more software-oriented than hardware, he couldn't give a definitive answer as to whether or not it will be in the box. He says that we, and even he, should know for sure at this year's E3.



    Concerning backwards compatibility, Harrison said that PSOne and PS2 games will in fact see "optimizations" when played on the PS3, but details on exactly what those are will need to wait until later.



    When asked about having the PS3 release a year after the Xbox 360, Harrison said that he has no concerns with his competition. He feels extremely confident in Sony's hardware, software and development tools, enough so that the system will have no problem competing with and even trumping its competition. As well, Harrison noted that Sony has in fact never been first out of the gate in any generation (Saturn before PlayStation, Dreamcast before PlayStation 2).



    Mr. Harrison went on to talk about how the PlayStation 3 development should pose less of a learning curve or struggle for developers than the PlayStation 2. He fully admitted that the PlayStation 2 can be a difficult machine to program for given its highly proprietary design, but the PlayStation 3's fully programmable Cell processor and common graphics architecture via nVidia's RSX should make for much easier development.



    Downloadable content should cover more than just games and game content in the end. The system's commerce site should house music, movies and more, allowing for access to almost any form of media through the system in wholly digital form. Extending beyond the PlayStation 3, after the system's launch these sorts of things should also open up for the PSP, allowing users to connect their system and download or transfer content directly to their portable system, even content designed specifically for it and not the PS3. In essence, the two will work together almost seamlessly.



    Sony has recently stated that its "basic" online service will be free, though it was unclear exactly what this meant. Harrison explained that anything outside of paid downloads or specialized subscriptions counts as "basic". In other words, all of the key features of the system, like your friends list, video chatting, grabbing free updates and indeed playing online will be entirely free. There will however be a few special case games that require paid subscriptions, like MMOs.



    When asked about the ongoing Immersion lawsuit and if it has to do with the secrecy of the PS3's controller, Harrison said that the lawsuit has absolutely nothing to do with the new controller and that Sony plans on fully unveiling it at this year's E3. Contrary to some reports, Harrison did not specifically say that a redesign of the current "boomerang" controller has been made, only that the PlayStation 3's controller would be fully revealed at E3.



    Lastly, and quite possibly the coolest bit of new info of the day, Harrison confirmed that PlayStation 3 software will be region-free. Developers will be able to put localized versions for multiple areas on a single disc and release the same game across the globe. In other words, foreign releases will be playable on your standard system, though whether or not you'll find English (or Spanish, French or whatever) translation on there will be up to each developer.



  • Reply 246 of 2106
    kupan787kupan787 Posts: 586member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by marzetta7

    Rumor: PS3 to sell for $389...



    http://www.ps3news.ca/03232006/21/ru...ail_for_389_99




    So some retail employes knows the scoop? And if this manager knows, then every single EB games manager would know (or does Sony only let the Canadian mangers in on the biggest secrets?) And guess what? My friend is a manager at EB games, and he doesn't know anything about this, aside from the rumors he has seen on the internet. There is no official word on price coming down the pipe as of yet.



    Every time around here when someone has a story about the local Apple store manager spilling the beans, it is laughed out because it is known that the retailers know NOTHING! This is like that Costco leak a while back...which turned out to be nothing....
  • Reply 247 of 2106
    cakecake Posts: 1,010member
    WTF is the mystery about the PS3 pricing?

    Sony has always said that it'll be priced competitively with the Xbox 360.



    They'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they priced it higher than the Xbox.

    And, like Microsoft, Sony is very willing to take a loss on the PS3 if it gets units out the door and Blu-ray into as many households as possible.



    People are deluded if they think that the PS3 will retail for $500 or anything substantially above the Xbox.
  • Reply 248 of 2106
    kupan787kupan787 Posts: 586member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Cake

    WTF is the mystery about the PS3 pricing?



    The mystery is that Sony hasn't announced any pricing info for the PS3 yet. So it is all up in the air, its all a mystery. If you didn't have the Xbox 360 to go off of, what would you guess the price for the PS3 was?



    Quote:

    People are deluded if they think that the PS3 will retail for $500 or anything substantially above the Xbox.



    I could see a $499 launch for the PS3. The Xbox 360 launched at $399, and has a lot cheaper parts all around. A $100 difference for a blu-ray player over a standard DVD player is generous. Sony will be eating money on all the sales, how much is up to them. Blu-ray is BRAND new, and wont be cheap. Yes, Sony will be able to get the the cheapest prices around, but it will still cost them some cash.
  • Reply 249 of 2106
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,075member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Cake

    People are deluded if they think that the PS3 will retail for $500 or anything substantially above the Xbox.



    Once you include a wireless adapter, the xbox is $510, and the wireless adapter is pretty much a required item. If Sony included 802.11g in the box, they could price it at $500 and still be cheaper than Microsoft.
  • Reply 250 of 2106
    marzetta7marzetta7 Posts: 1,323member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kupan787

    So some retail employes knows the scoop? And if this manager knows, then every single EB games manager would know (or does Sony only let the Canadian mangers in on the biggest secrets?) And guess what? My friend is a manager at EB games, and he doesn't know anything about this, aside from the rumors he has seen on the internet. There is no official word on price coming down the pipe as of yet.



    Every time around here when someone has a story about the local Apple store manager spilling the beans, it is laughed out because it is known that the retailers know NOTHING! This is like that Costco leak a while back...which turned out to be nothing....




    Wow, thanks. If you noticed, I preceded the post with RUMOR as to just strike up some more speculation as to what the price might be. In no way was I trying to pass this information off as fact. Indeed, I'm cognisant of those posts dealing with Apple employees knowing "inside info," but again, this is a speculative forum isn't it? Anyhow, my purpose of the post appears to have worked anyway as some of you are talking about possible PS3 pricing.



    Anyhow, I have to agree with Cake that Sony might sell the PS3 at around $399, especially to undercut any percieved price advantage Toshiba's HD DVD player might have as a HD player. Likewise, I think it would be priced around this value to "trump" as Phil Harrison put it the competition (Xbox).
  • Reply 251 of 2106
    mellomello Posts: 555member
    Warner Brothers plans to have, "at least some" of the 20 HD-DVD to

    use the Image Constraint Token. Do you think they will label the

    packaging so consumers will know which is which?
  • Reply 252 of 2106
    xoolxool Posts: 2,460member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BrunoBruin

    Sony is now saying they will not be utilizing the Image Constraint Token in their Blu-ray disc releases, so full resolution signals will be passed over analog (component) connectors. With the ICT enabled, resolution over component would be cut in half. Now Fox, Buena Vista and Paramount have also said they won't use the ICT; they're taking a wait-and-see stance to see if piracy becomes a problem.



    No similar word from the HD-DVD camp. Blu-ray apparently contains an additional "watermark" that reportedly survives conversion to analog, so ICT may not be necessary.



    If I can get full resolution via component from Blu-ray, that ends the argument right there for me. Or will HD-DVD have to make some similar concession to those of us with "non-compliant" displays?




    Based on my tests, HDMI output is far better than component. I was surprised when I switched my HD cable box to HDMI. Even my non-Pro girlfriend noticed the improvement which I doubt she could do for the switch from RCA to S-Video for example.



    Meanwhile I can completely frustrated with all these studios and standards bodies. I can't believe they fought tooth and nail for a feature that now they don't even plan to use!
  • Reply 253 of 2106
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kupan787

    ... Every time around here when someone has a story about the local Apple store manager spilling the beans, it is laughed out because it is known that the retailers know NOTHING! This is like that Costco leak a while back...which turned out to be nothing....



    If memory serves me correctly, which it often doesn't, the Costco leak was that the release date was going to be in November, which now seems to be correct.
  • Reply 254 of 2106
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Xool

    Based on my tests, HDMI output is far better than component.



    That may be, but for myself and everyone else who purchased an HD display before DVI or HDMI were widely adopted, component is what we've got. The studios pushing ICT are saying that the very same people who bought into HD early, and would likely buy into HD DVD early, should dump perfectly good equipment or sit on the sidelines.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by mello

    Warner Brothers plans to have, "at least some" of the 20 HD-DVD to use the Image Constraint Token. Do you think they will label the packaging so consumers will know which is which?



    I think the specs say that discs which constrain the output have to be labeled as such.
  • Reply 255 of 2106
    mellomello Posts: 555member
    Just think if Blu-ray used this codec instead of H.264. HD satellite & cable would be nuts not to use

    this technology.
  • Reply 256 of 2106
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by mello

    Just think if Blu-ray used this codec instead of H.264. HD satellite & cable would be nuts not to use

    this technology.



    Quote:

    EuclidVision’s technology is object-based. In simple terms, EuclidVision recognizes objects in the video, like a face, and applies new compression techniques to those objects differing from the background. Current video compression using Discrete Cosine Transform does not look at objects, it just applies a constant rate of compression to the entire frame or picture.



    So it vectorizes on the fly? Or what? Also, that last sentence is nonsense.
  • Reply 257 of 2106
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Chucker

    So it vectorizes on the fly? Or what? Also, that last sentence is nonsense.



    I'm not sure where you pulled that quote from, but whoever wrote it knows absolutely nothing about MPEG. Only key frames are compressed as JPEGs (duh). Newer versions of MPEG can also use wavelet-based (and wavelet-inspired) compression techniques for key frames.
  • Reply 258 of 2106
    kupan787kupan787 Posts: 586member
    Quote:

    From linked article above...

    Ultimately, EuclidVision should be able to reduce the current MPEG-4 attainable 700 MB file size for 2-hour long videos down to 50MB ? finally making feature length movies as ?swappable? as MP3s.



    MPAA, start your engines...



    Is that really such a statement you should be making in a press release. Its one thing to mention the compression rates and whatnot, but to then end it with a comparison to the illegal swapping of MP3s, just seems stupid.
  • Reply 259 of 2106
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4857306.stm



    anyone seen this?



    ive been reading about this for a good while, i hope it really DOES appear 'this year'



    //Holographic advance aids storage



    Magnetic disks have a storage density of about 37.5Gb per square inch

    A US firm says it has set a commercial data storage record by achieving 515 gigabits (Gb) per square inch.

    InPhase Technologies says it reached the level using a holographic drive, which has a higher capacity than conventional magnetic storage media.



    It said the technology could eventually lead to a holographic disc that could hold more than 100 DVD-quality movies.



    InPhase expects to unveil its first holographic drive later this year, with products of up to 1.6 terabyte coming.



    More storage



    Holograms use a three-dimensional image generated by lasers to store information.



    The concept has been around for several decades but the optical storage technology has only become feasible in the last few years.



    Chief technology officer Kevin Curtis said previous tests carried out in April 2005 had only achieved 200Gb per square inch.



    By comparison, magnetic disks, such as those used in the hard drives, can manage a storage density of about 37.5Gb per square inch.



    "We are particularly pleased at the rate of improvement," he said. "The latest results from our ongoing tests on holographic data density have surpassed expectations."



    InPhase says the benefits of holographic data storage will include allowing technology managers to archive data in less space.



    The first generation of InPhase drives will have a capacity of 300Gb on a single disk.



    "The technology represents a potential alternative to incumbent technologies for archival storage requirements," said Wolfgang Schlichting at analysts IDC.//
  • Reply 260 of 2106
    Universal Studios is now saying they won't use the ICT on their initial HD DVD releases. We got ourselves a horse race again, boys!
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