I'm forseeing two models, one an iBook replacement and one a 12" PB replacement. Based on the Mini, I don't see a Core Duo going into a laptop for less than $1099. Nor non-integrated graphics only a model less than $1599, and even then I doubt Apple with match the MBP card (128 MB X1600). And it's probably safe that base specs will not surpass the $1999 MBP (i.e. 512 MB RAM and 80 MB HD). But Apple might sweeten the low-end with a Superdrive - they're cheap enough now. So:
$1099
1.66 Core Duo
512 MB / 40 GB
GMA950 64MB
Superdrive
All the new goodies, but still no spanning.
$1599
1.66 Core Duo
512 MB / 60 GB
X1600 64 MB (or whatever)
Superdrive
All the new goodies, spanning enabled.
Maybe it's a little pessimistic, because I still want my MBP to look good afterwards. But I hope to be pleasantly surprised.
Dell has a dual core notebook in the ~$600 range. I expect a MacBook to be $999 or less.
Who cares about integrated graphics on a 13" notebook? Yeah, that will start a holy war but really guys/gals, for the few that do I don't see how you run FCP on the things (cause we know Macs are not for gamers).
I prefer proportional displays. It makes presentations a lot easier because I can use true mirroring (think about native resolution on the built-in LCD versus non-native). I have a 14" iBook and love it. I am probably upping to a MacBook Pro here soon, but I would consider a 14" unit if it came out.
Proportional to what? If you mean to common projection equipment, then I don't see the problem with the rumored display resolution, it should support up to XGA projectors without dropping detail. Apple's display properties panel seems to properly set the aspect ratio on mirroring with displays of different native resolutions.
Dell has a dual core notebook in the ~$600 range. I expect a MacBook to be $999 or less.
Who cares about integrated graphics on a 13" notebook? Yeah, that will start a holy war but really guys/gals, for the few that do I don't see how you run FCP on the things (cause we know Macs are not for gamers).
You can expect all you want, but it's not gonna happen.. Do the math.
Core-duo Mac mini is $799 and has the lowest profit margin of any computer Apple has ever sold.
So if you keep the same components of the mini and you add the additional costs of a MacBook like the 13 widescreen LCD which is $143, plus the iSight camera and mag-safe connector you will understand why It can't happen.
Mini increased $100, the MacBook will also increase $100 minimum.
I bought my PowerBook 12" back when the iBook was still a G3 and that really WAS a reason to go Pro! But yes, when the G4 iBook came out the PB12 was always challenged from below. Add the horribly slow pace of Freescale's G4 clockspeed increases and we reach the situation as it is now.
For someone who does a lot of writing though, that keyboard has served me three tough years well.
I expect the sub-15" form factor will ONLY have MacBooks to chose from and not MacBook Pros. This removes the overlap and establishes a clear divide between the two ranges which everyone can understand. More bucks, more bang.
As for MacBook predictions, count me in as integrated graphics on all of them and Core Duo at the top with maybe a Core Solo for the magic $999 learning from the Mac Mini's comparatively lacklustre sales. From the numbers I've seen though, the Solo isn't all that much cheaper, so maybe it can be pulled off for the base model. Depends on how much secret lovin' Intel has to spread around!
Of course I can still dream about a super compact Mac laptop. But that one's probably as far out as the mystical Tablet!
You can expect all you want, but it's not gonna happen.. Do the math.
Core-duo Mac mini is $799 and has the lowest profit margin of any computer Apple has ever sold.
So if you keep the same components of the mini and you add the additional costs of a MacBook like the 13 widescreen LCD which is $143, plus the iSight camera and mag-safe connector you will understand why It can't happen.
Mini increased $100, the MacBook will also increase $100 minimum.
You will always be able to find a cheaper Dell...
The Solo Core Mac Mini is $599. Why would you assume the low end MacBook has a Core-Duo?
You can expect all you want, but it's not gonna happen.. Do the math.
Core-duo Mac mini is $799 and has the lowest profit margin of any computer Apple has ever sold.
So if you keep the same components of the mini and you add the additional costs of a MacBook like the 13 widescreen LCD which is $143, plus the iSight camera and mag-safe connector you will understand why It can't happen.
Mini increased $100, the MacBook will also increase $100 minimum.
You will always be able to find a cheaper Dell...
Mark it down. $999 or less for a dual core. Remind me about this in a few weeks and we will see how right I was.
Dell has a dual core notebook in the ~$600 range. I expect a MacBook to be $999 or less.
Which one? And $500-off-any-laptop coupons don't count. I've surfed around Dell, out of curiousity, to see how the MBP stacked up. Not all their lines offer Cores yet, and those that do start in the $700 to $800 range for Solos and Duos, respectively, with stripped-down configs on low-end lines. A decent model spec'd out to match a MBP matched its price as well. No reason to expect different with the MacBook.
Which one? And $500-off-any-laptop coupons don't count. I've surfed around Dell, out of curiousity, to see how the MBP stacked up. Not all their lines offer Cores yet, and those that do start in the $700 to $800 range for Solos and Duos, respectively, with stripped-down configs on low-end lines. A decent model spec'd out to match a MBP matched its price as well. No reason to expect different with the MacBook.
That was with a $200 off instant rebate (I will have to hunt it down as it was my neighbor who found it). It is hard to find anything on their website. He is out of town but I will ask him Sunday night. He was about to order one and was commenting that Apple charged premium prices. I didn't believe until I saw it. I was thinking it was $599 with rebate.
Mark it down. $999 or less for a dual core. Remind me about this in a few weeks and we will see how right I was.
Not trying to pick a fight with you but, if you look at how the intel replacement models were priced compared to the previous ppc models they are the same or in the mini's case higher. I think $999 is as low as it can go. If Apple add features that the ppc models didn't have, I think they (Macbook) will cost more than the model they replace.
Many speculated that when Apple went to Intel chips prices would come down. So far that hasn't been the case. Apple has added features and enhanced perfromance but prices really are unchanged.
Not trying to pick a fight with you but, if you look at how the intel replacement models were priced compared to the previous ppc models they are the same or in the mini's case higher. I think $999 is as low as it can go. If Apple add features that the ppc models didn't have, I think they (Macbook) will cost more than the model they replace.
Many speculated that when Apple went to Intel chips prices would come down. So far that hasn't been the case. Apple has added features and enhanced perfromance but prices really are unchanged.
I know you are not picking a fight.
IMHO they are shooting for same pricing as PPC models. With new chips around the corner, more supply, and better yeilds the MacBooks will have the same pricing or less when they roll in as the current iBooks. I am being optimistic and predicting a possible decrease in price but the realist says they will have a dual core for $999.
Besides, the notebook market is very price sensitive from my experiences talking with owners. They really want them to be super cheap for some reason, especially students.
The Solo Core Mac Mini is $599. Why would you assume the low end MacBook has a Core-Duo?
From the article which we are discussing:
"Each MacBook is expected to sport Core Duo processors from Intel Corp and pack novelties such as a completely magnetic latching system, built in iSight video camera, and MagSafe power adapter. Additionally, each MacBook is expected to come bundled with Apple's Front Row and PhotoBooth software applications. "
While possible, it doesn't necessarily work that way. The best I can figure on the mini is that they just dropped the model without wireless.
The new base mac mini has by default, Bluetooth and Wifi. This pair was a $100 option on the old $499 mini, which didn't have any wireless by default.
I'm curious how you know the margins of the Core Duo Mac mini. I'd think that the Core Solo mini would have the lowest margins.
I believe the article I read was either from this site or MDN, I will look for it and post.... In a nutshell, the article was soon after the mini was released.. It was disected with a breakdown cost analysis for all the components used.. The result was that the core-duo mini had the lowest profit margin of any Apple computer ever.. The core-solo actually had a higher profit margin.
It was also recently published (from this site) that the new 13" widescreen LCD that the MacBook will use costs more than the current 13" iBook LCD.. The price is $143.
I do realize that wifi and bluetooth were added as standard to the mini, but the Intel chips are still more expensive than the G4, especially the core-duos.
Mark my words, with the Intel core-duo, 13" widescreen LCD, mag-safe connector, iSight, and remote control all added to the cost of the current iBook.. There's no way that it will come in at $999.00.
Besides, the notebook market is very price sensitive from my experiences talking with owners. They really want them to be super cheap for some reason, especially students.
I agree with you here. That's why, except for iSight, the new features that are being mentioned, only seem to add unnecessary cost IMO. Does someone looking for a low cost notebook need a magnetic latch and a magsafe powercord? I would have put in a cheap reliable latch and a cheap standard power source so as to keep cost as low as possible. I don't see these features as being that important to the typical buyer of this machine.
I agree with you here. That's why, except for iSight, the new features that are being mentioned, only seem to add unnecessary cost IMO. Does someone looking for a low cost notebook need a magnetic latch and a magsafe powercord? I would have put in a cheap reliable latch and a cheap standard power source so as to keep cost as low as possible. I don't see these features as being that important to the typical buyer of this machine.
My guess is that Apple will keep the $999 and $1299 price points--which shouldn't be too hard if you factor in the price cuts on the Core Duos which have been rumored to happen (have happened?) in May. (I had considered, though, Apple bumping up prices to $1299 and $1499--who knows, maybe significantly more people buy the current $1299 iBook versus the $999 iBook, enough so they could drop that price point?)
That said, while magsafe and magnetic latches aren't exactly super-necessary, despite what Steve says, Apple isn't just about software--it needs its hardware to be differentiated, too. (Beyond just looks.) So, while neither of those two are the cheapest options, they do go towards creating for the customer an important part of the "Apple experience"--convenience.
I agree with you here. That's why, except for iSight, the new features that are being mentioned, only seem to add unnecessary cost IMO. Does someone looking for a low cost notebook need a magnetic latch and a magsafe powercord? I would have put in a cheap reliable latch and a cheap standard power source so as to keep cost as low as possible. I don't see these features as being that important to the typical buyer of this machine.
...so it would be cheaper to design a whole new latch and power plug ?
I agree with you here. That's why, except for iSight, the new features that are being mentioned, only seem to add unnecessary cost IMO. Does someone looking for a low cost notebook need a magnetic latch and a magsafe powercord? I would have put in a cheap reliable latch and a cheap standard power source so as to keep cost as low as possible. I don't see these features as being that important to the typical buyer of this machine.
Apple isn't a company that uses cheap parts to lower costs. If they were, I doubt all of us here would be talking about an upcoming product with such anticipation.
Comments
$1099
1.66 Core Duo
512 MB / 40 GB
GMA950 64MB
Superdrive
All the new goodies, but still no spanning.
$1599
1.66 Core Duo
512 MB / 60 GB
X1600 64 MB (or whatever)
Superdrive
All the new goodies, spanning enabled.
Maybe it's a little pessimistic, because I still want my MBP to look good afterwards.
Who cares about integrated graphics on a 13" notebook? Yeah, that will start a holy war but really guys/gals, for the few that do I don't see how you run FCP on the things (cause we know Macs are not for gamers).
Originally posted by JamesG
I prefer proportional displays. It makes presentations a lot easier because I can use true mirroring (think about native resolution on the built-in LCD versus non-native). I have a 14" iBook and love it. I am probably upping to a MacBook Pro here soon, but I would consider a 14" unit if it came out.
Proportional to what? If you mean to common projection equipment, then I don't see the problem with the rumored display resolution, it should support up to XGA projectors without dropping detail. Apple's display properties panel seems to properly set the aspect ratio on mirroring with displays of different native resolutions.
Originally posted by aplnub
Dell has a dual core notebook in the ~$600 range. I expect a MacBook to be $999 or less.
Who cares about integrated graphics on a 13" notebook? Yeah, that will start a holy war but really guys/gals, for the few that do I don't see how you run FCP on the things (cause we know Macs are not for gamers).
You can expect all you want, but it's not gonna happen.. Do the math.
Core-duo Mac mini is $799 and has the lowest profit margin of any computer Apple has ever sold.
So if you keep the same components of the mini and you add the additional costs of a MacBook like the 13 widescreen LCD which is $143, plus the iSight camera and mag-safe connector you will understand why It can't happen.
Mini increased $100, the MacBook will also increase $100 minimum.
You will always be able to find a cheaper Dell...
For someone who does a lot of writing though, that keyboard has served me three tough years well.
I expect the sub-15" form factor will ONLY have MacBooks to chose from and not MacBook Pros. This removes the overlap and establishes a clear divide between the two ranges which everyone can understand. More bucks, more bang.
As for MacBook predictions, count me in as integrated graphics on all of them and Core Duo at the top with maybe a Core Solo for the magic $999 learning from the Mac Mini's comparatively lacklustre sales. From the numbers I've seen though, the Solo isn't all that much cheaper, so maybe it can be pulled off for the base model. Depends on how much secret lovin' Intel has to spread around!
Of course I can still dream about a super compact Mac laptop. But that one's probably as far out as the mystical Tablet!
Originally posted by solsun
You can expect all you want, but it's not gonna happen.. Do the math.
Core-duo Mac mini is $799 and has the lowest profit margin of any computer Apple has ever sold.
So if you keep the same components of the mini and you add the additional costs of a MacBook like the 13 widescreen LCD which is $143, plus the iSight camera and mag-safe connector you will understand why It can't happen.
Mini increased $100, the MacBook will also increase $100 minimum.
You will always be able to find a cheaper Dell...
The Solo Core Mac Mini is $599.
Originally posted by solsun
Mini increased $100, the MacBook will also increase $100 minimum.
While possible, it doesn't necessarily work that way. The best I can figure on the mini is that they just dropped the model without wireless.
The new base mac mini has by default, Bluetooth and Wifi. This pair was a $100 option on the old $499 mini, which didn't have any wireless by default.
I'm curious how you know the margins of the Core Duo Mac mini. I'd think that the Core Solo mini would have the lowest margins.
Originally posted by solsun
You can expect all you want, but it's not gonna happen.. Do the math.
Core-duo Mac mini is $799 and has the lowest profit margin of any computer Apple has ever sold.
So if you keep the same components of the mini and you add the additional costs of a MacBook like the 13 widescreen LCD which is $143, plus the iSight camera and mag-safe connector you will understand why It can't happen.
Mini increased $100, the MacBook will also increase $100 minimum.
You will always be able to find a cheaper Dell...
Mark it down. $999 or less for a dual core. Remind me about this in a few weeks and we will see how right I was.
Originally posted by aplnub
Dell has a dual core notebook in the ~$600 range. I expect a MacBook to be $999 or less.
Which one? And $500-off-any-laptop coupons don't count.
Originally posted by Towel
Which one? And $500-off-any-laptop coupons don't count.
That was with a $200 off instant rebate (I will have to hunt it down as it was my neighbor who found it). It is hard to find anything on their website. He is out of town but I will ask him Sunday night. He was about to order one and was commenting that Apple charged premium prices. I didn't believe until I saw it. I was thinking it was $599 with rebate.
Originally posted by aplnub
Mark it down. $999 or less for a dual core. Remind me about this in a few weeks and we will see how right I was.
Not trying to pick a fight with you but, if you look at how the intel replacement models were priced compared to the previous ppc models they are the same or in the mini's case higher. I think $999 is as low as it can go. If Apple add features that the ppc models didn't have, I think they (Macbook) will cost more than the model they replace.
Many speculated that when Apple went to Intel chips prices would come down. So far that hasn't been the case. Apple has added features and enhanced perfromance but prices really are unchanged.
Originally posted by backtomac
Not trying to pick a fight with you but, if you look at how the intel replacement models were priced compared to the previous ppc models they are the same or in the mini's case higher. I think $999 is as low as it can go. If Apple add features that the ppc models didn't have, I think they (Macbook) will cost more than the model they replace.
Many speculated that when Apple went to Intel chips prices would come down. So far that hasn't been the case. Apple has added features and enhanced perfromance but prices really are unchanged.
I know you are not picking a fight.
IMHO they are shooting for same pricing as PPC models. With new chips around the corner, more supply, and better yeilds the MacBooks will have the same pricing or less when they roll in as the current iBooks. I am being optimistic and predicting a possible decrease in price but the realist says they will have a dual core for $999.
Besides, the notebook market is very price sensitive from my experiences talking with owners. They really want them to be super cheap for some reason, especially students.
Originally posted by iPeon
The Solo Core Mac Mini is $599.
From the article which we are discussing:
"Each MacBook is expected to sport Core Duo processors from Intel Corp and pack novelties such as a completely magnetic latching system, built in iSight video camera, and MagSafe power adapter. Additionally, each MacBook is expected to come bundled with Apple's Front Row and PhotoBooth software applications. "
Originally posted by JeffDM
While possible, it doesn't necessarily work that way. The best I can figure on the mini is that they just dropped the model without wireless.
The new base mac mini has by default, Bluetooth and Wifi. This pair was a $100 option on the old $499 mini, which didn't have any wireless by default.
I'm curious how you know the margins of the Core Duo Mac mini. I'd think that the Core Solo mini would have the lowest margins.
I believe the article I read was either from this site or MDN, I will look for it and post.... In a nutshell, the article was soon after the mini was released.. It was disected with a breakdown cost analysis for all the components used.. The result was that the core-duo mini had the lowest profit margin of any Apple computer ever.. The core-solo actually had a higher profit margin.
It was also recently published (from this site) that the new 13" widescreen LCD that the MacBook will use costs more than the current 13" iBook LCD.. The price is $143.
I do realize that wifi and bluetooth were added as standard to the mini, but the Intel chips are still more expensive than the G4, especially the core-duos.
Mark my words, with the Intel core-duo, 13" widescreen LCD, mag-safe connector, iSight, and remote control all added to the cost of the current iBook.. There's no way that it will come in at $999.00.
Originally posted by solsun
There's no way that it will come in at $999.00.
See you back here in a few days.
Originally posted by aplnub
Besides, the notebook market is very price sensitive from my experiences talking with owners. They really want them to be super cheap for some reason, especially students.
I agree with you here. That's why, except for iSight, the new features that are being mentioned, only seem to add unnecessary cost IMO. Does someone looking for a low cost notebook need a magnetic latch and a magsafe powercord? I would have put in a cheap reliable latch and a cheap standard power source so as to keep cost as low as possible. I don't see these features as being that important to the typical buyer of this machine.
Originally posted by backtomac
I agree with you here. That's why, except for iSight, the new features that are being mentioned, only seem to add unnecessary cost IMO. Does someone looking for a low cost notebook need a magnetic latch and a magsafe powercord? I would have put in a cheap reliable latch and a cheap standard power source so as to keep cost as low as possible. I don't see these features as being that important to the typical buyer of this machine.
My guess is that Apple will keep the $999 and $1299 price points--which shouldn't be too hard if you factor in the price cuts on the Core Duos which have been rumored to happen (have happened?) in May. (I had considered, though, Apple bumping up prices to $1299 and $1499--who knows, maybe significantly more people buy the current $1299 iBook versus the $999 iBook, enough so they could drop that price point?)
That said, while magsafe and magnetic latches aren't exactly super-necessary, despite what Steve says, Apple isn't just about software--it needs its hardware to be differentiated, too. (Beyond just looks.) So, while neither of those two are the cheapest options, they do go towards creating for the customer an important part of the "Apple experience"--convenience.
Granted it's Lenovo but.... $899 for a 14.1 ICD 1.66Ghz computer ain't half bad. If we allow Apple a %10 premium markup we're still at less than $999.
This doesn't mean that I think Apple will actually have a $999 model. I see them having a $1099 model that's spec'd well enough.
Originally posted by backtomac
I agree with you here. That's why, except for iSight, the new features that are being mentioned, only seem to add unnecessary cost IMO. Does someone looking for a low cost notebook need a magnetic latch and a magsafe powercord? I would have put in a cheap reliable latch and a cheap standard power source so as to keep cost as low as possible. I don't see these features as being that important to the typical buyer of this machine.
...so it would be cheaper to design a whole new latch and power plug ?
Originally posted by backtomac
I agree with you here. That's why, except for iSight, the new features that are being mentioned, only seem to add unnecessary cost IMO. Does someone looking for a low cost notebook need a magnetic latch and a magsafe powercord? I would have put in a cheap reliable latch and a cheap standard power source so as to keep cost as low as possible. I don't see these features as being that important to the typical buyer of this machine.
Apple isn't a company that uses cheap parts to lower costs. If they were, I doubt all of us here would be talking about an upcoming product with such anticipation.