Why? Is there a particular reason that doesn't involve the fact that you are a shareholder? Or do you think the quality would go down a bit as a result? Or is it something else?
I wouldn't mind seeing a lower starting price, but knowing Apple, I really doubt it would happen. I would call it a fantasy.
Shareholder? What does that have to do with it? As a shareholder, I would like Apple to do what is necessary to make the company grow at a good pace, and manage a good profit, with acceptable margins, and to be able to do it without sacrificing the companies future.
Is that what most people here would want as well?
I'm repeating the discussions we've had a few months ago. You might remember the excitement that so many here had about that $799 iBook. I think that you were happy about it as well. I had expressed skepticism about it at the time, because Apple paid so little for the G4's (and the G5's) that I said that Intel's prices might not allow it, but I was put down for that.
All I'm saying now, is that I hope Apple doesn't have to raise the price above $999, because raising the price of the Mini has hurt sales. I don't think anyone here wants that to happen to the MacMook as well.
With prices of PC laptops below even $699, an Apple MacBook at $1099 will be a hard sell.
Considering that they will be adding the iSight cam, mag-safe connector, a more expensive 13 widescreen LCD and a more expensive core-duo processor, I'd say chances are extremely slim that the price-point will remain at $999.
Afterall the Mac mini price increased $100.. Expect the MacBook price to increase a minimum of $100 too.
Don't be so sure. Despite the rumors, there is no guarantee they will use a Duo chip, and the extra requirements that would require, for the bottom machine.
And, this is such an important model for Apple that they might feel it's necessary to keep the pricing the same.
In Apple's Hot News, they include the E3 Expo event on 10-12 May. That is generally known as a gaming event, and given the status of games on the Mac, Apple's presence does seem a bit odd.
So possibly Apple is planning to release the MacBook either the day before or at the Expo with a simple press release. And then use the gathering at the Expo to show it off, though not as a gaming solution (unless you use Boot Camp).
I was at Apple's E3 booth 2 years ago. It was my best 15 minutes of the whole E3. Sure there was a lot of exciting new games to look at, but relaxing in the Apple room was just pure pleasure. Uptodate Apple stuff all around, sofas and chilling music and a veggie tapas buffet, and friendly smiles and good mood all around. I wanted to stay just to chill, but then I had to get back to our booth in the big hall again. Crazy place with screaming people and screaming machines.
Offtopic:
This year I'd love to go see the Nintendo Wii despite all that screaming. To connect the Wii controller to a Mac would be awesome. I hope there is a way to run homebrew software on the Wii that can communicate the Wii controller's movements via network to a computer. Would be a great help in animation and 3D.
I agree with you here. That's why, except for iSight, the new features that are being mentioned, only seem to add unnecessary cost IMO. Does someone looking for a low cost notebook need a magnetic latch and a magsafe powercord? I would have put in a cheap reliable latch and a cheap standard power source so as to keep cost as low as possible. I don't see these features as being that important to the typical buyer of this machine.
Those features cost less than you might think. If they are the same as the ones for the MBP, then Apple will save money by having one design and one stock number for each. It will cost less to buy them as well, because of the greater numbers being produced. It's the other features that are the problem, cost wise.
That was with a $200 off instant rebate (I will have to hunt it down as it was my neighbor who found it). It is hard to find anything on their website. He is out of town but I will ask him Sunday night. He was about to order one and was commenting that Apple charged premium prices. I didn't believe until I saw it. I was thinking it was $599 with rebate.
The last time I saw ANY Dell laptop that cheap was after a big rebate and it wasn't a Duo, but a Solo. Its actually advertised on tv right now. Solo totally different ballgame.
I hope for apple, that they will soon have an equivalent PB12 with Intel processor. Because there is a huge market for roadwarriors who need a lightweight, powerful, enduring Notebook. Maybe a sub-3-pound 11-13 Inch device like some VAIO.
The 13 Macbook won't have all the features necessary for this target group, because it will need to be priced aggressively ($1000)to compete agains all those Dell/Samsung/HP Mainstream Notebooks.
Also it would be nice if they introduced a 15" Macbook at sub $1500, which would be heavier, bigger, dimmer and less powerfull than a $2000 Macbook Pro.
People basing price projections of the MacBook on the current model of iBooks, like,
Quote:
Considering that they will be adding the iSight cam, mag-safe connector, a more expensive 13 widescreen LCD and a more expensive core-duo processor, I'd say chances are extremely slim that the price-point will remain at $999.
are misled. Apple has been selling that model at this price point since august last year, hence the components are probably not that decisive when Apple is setting the prices. Also, Apple will probably have landed a good price on that 13,3" screen. The core duo will also be cheaper for them to acquire, as it is finding its way into consumer machines in many pc portables. The iSight is not that expensive, since its based on cheaper tech than the external model, and the magsafe is an Apple-internal developed tech, making it not that expensive. Thus, if Apple wants to compete in the low end portable market they could easily stay at the current price levels.
.. Oh, and incidentally I just sold my old iBook today, at just under 1000US$.
999$ for a Core Duo 1.66GHz with integrated graphics and I'm buying it.
Integrated graphics makes the most sense on a 13" MacBook (especially the low end one) since most people won't be doing any hardcore gaming on it. The screen is too small (IMO) for gaming...and these suckers will be used mainly for school work or other non-gaming activities.
It would make no sense to stick a graphics card in there and up the price point by 100-200$.
Heck...integrated graphics makes on the MacBook makes more sense than integrated graphics on the Mac mini. People are more likely to game with the Mac mini than with the MacBook.
If Apple ships a 999$ MacBook that's at least a Core Duo...I'm buying it.
All I'm saying now, is that I hope Apple doesn't have to raise the price above $999, because raising the price of the Mini has hurt sales. I don't think anyone here wants that to happen to the MacMook as well.
With prices of PC laptops below even $699, an Apple MacBook at $1099 will be a hard sell.
In the post I quoted, it sounded like you didn't want a sub $999 price. It looks like I misunderstood.
Apple isn't a company that uses cheap parts to lower costs. If they were, I doubt all of us here would be talking about an upcoming product with such anticipation.
Unless it is a Maxtor hard drive. At least those are easily replacable, unless you have any Mac that isn't a tower.
My guess is that Apple will keep the $999 and $1299 price points--which shouldn't be too hard if you factor in the price cuts on the Core Duos which have been rumored to happen (have happened?) in May. (I had considered, though, Apple bumping up prices to $1299 and $1499--who knows, maybe significantly more people buy the current $1299 iBook versus the $999 iBook, enough so they could drop that price point?)
That said, while magsafe and magnetic latches aren't exactly super-necessary, despite what Steve says, Apple isn't just about software--it needs its hardware to be differentiated, too. (Beyond just looks.) So, while neither of those two are the cheapest options, they do go towards creating for the customer an important part of the "Apple experience"--convenience.
I hope you are right and my concerns will have been ill founded. The $999 price point is important, IMO, for this machine. Have other configs at higher prices, but I think it's important to keep $999 as the starting point. Otherwise I think some buyers won't even look at Apple. With the problems MS is having with Vista don't give buyers a reason NOT to look at Apple.
All I'm saying now, is that I hope Apple doesn't have to raise the price above $999, because raising the price of the Mini has hurt sales. I don't think anyone here wants that to happen to the MacMook as well.
I also remember the introduction of the Mac mini, when Jobs stood on stage and talked about how they wanted to build a sub $500 desktop because it was a "sweet spot".. Well, that didn't last long.
What data do you have that shows mini sales are hurting?
I see Apple keeping a $999 price point, especially after everyone bitched so much about them dropping the low end Mini price. Also, after seeing the integrated graphics on the $799 Mini, you can probably bet that the $999 MacBook will have them also.
I don't think Apple is in business to shoot for the bottom of the barrel in terms of unit price. Who cares if Dell has a $300 desktop or a $600 laptop. I wouldn't buy them anyway because I'd have to run Windows and IMHO they look like shit compared to Apple's computers. Right now Apple is trying to find a medium in which they can don't have to sacrifice their margins but can still deliver a quality product at a price consumers will still pay.
It's mid 2006 - a $1000 laptop should not have a combo drive !!! I would be VERY surprised if the price stayed the same as the iBook, so I would be even more disappointed to see a $1100/$1200 with a combo drive !!
What the hell, I might as well post my prediction...
MacBook the Lesser
13.3" Widescreen Display
1.66 GHz Intel Core Duo
SuperDrive
Built-In WiFi and Bluetooth
60 GB SATA HDD
512 MB DDR2 667MHz RAM
Integrated Graphics
MagSafe, magnet latchy thing, iSight, remote
$999
--> Yeah, it's pretty much the high end mini with a screen and a camera
MacBook the Great
13.3" Widescreen Display
1.83 GHz Intel Core Duo
SuperDrive
Built-In WiFi and Bluetooth
80 GB SATA HDD
512 MB DDR2 667 MHz
Integrated Graphics
MagSafe, magnet latchy thing, iSight, remote
$1299
SooperDooper MacBook
12" Display
3.0 GHz Intel Core Quadro
SuperDrive
WiFi & Bluetooth
1 TB SATA HDD (No RAID, just a big, fuckin' block on the back of the computer...)
4 GB DDR2 RAM
QUADRO FX 4500 512MB SDRAM (I know, I know ... but there will be a slot in the side where I can plug in my PCI-express graphics card, thereby eliminating GPU heat in the laptop and letting me play all my games with no slow down or tearing)
MagSafe, magnet latchy thing, iSight, remote, toaster, tote bag and autographed picture of Steve Jobs...
$1599 -- That's still too damn much though .. I'll wait for Rev. B and pray that it's in an aluminum case
Comments
Originally posted by Ireland
Just a thought but if there was a press conference next tuesday, wouldn't the press need to be invited
haha, good point!
Originally posted by JeffDM
Why? Is there a particular reason that doesn't involve the fact that you are a shareholder? Or do you think the quality would go down a bit as a result? Or is it something else?
I wouldn't mind seeing a lower starting price, but knowing Apple, I really doubt it would happen. I would call it a fantasy.
Shareholder? What does that have to do with it? As a shareholder, I would like Apple to do what is necessary to make the company grow at a good pace, and manage a good profit, with acceptable margins, and to be able to do it without sacrificing the companies future.
Is that what most people here would want as well?
I'm repeating the discussions we've had a few months ago. You might remember the excitement that so many here had about that $799 iBook. I think that you were happy about it as well. I had expressed skepticism about it at the time, because Apple paid so little for the G4's (and the G5's) that I said that Intel's prices might not allow it, but I was put down for that.
All I'm saying now, is that I hope Apple doesn't have to raise the price above $999, because raising the price of the Mini has hurt sales. I don't think anyone here wants that to happen to the MacMook as well.
With prices of PC laptops below even $699, an Apple MacBook at $1099 will be a hard sell.
Originally posted by solsun
Considering that they will be adding the iSight cam, mag-safe connector, a more expensive 13 widescreen LCD and a more expensive core-duo processor, I'd say chances are extremely slim that the price-point will remain at $999.
Afterall the Mac mini price increased $100.. Expect the MacBook price to increase a minimum of $100 too.
Don't be so sure. Despite the rumors, there is no guarantee they will use a Duo chip, and the extra requirements that would require, for the bottom machine.
And, this is such an important model for Apple that they might feel it's necessary to keep the pricing the same.
Originally posted by iPeon
The Solo Core Mac Mini is $599.
They're assuming it because these RUMORS articles always come true, right?
Originally posted by mark2005
In Apple's Hot News, they include the E3 Expo event on 10-12 May. That is generally known as a gaming event, and given the status of games on the Mac, Apple's presence does seem a bit odd.
So possibly Apple is planning to release the MacBook either the day before or at the Expo with a simple press release. And then use the gathering at the Expo to show it off, though not as a gaming solution (unless you use Boot Camp).
I was at Apple's E3 booth 2 years ago. It was my best 15 minutes of the whole E3. Sure there was a lot of exciting new games to look at, but relaxing in the Apple room was just pure pleasure. Uptodate Apple stuff all around, sofas and chilling music and a veggie tapas buffet, and friendly smiles and good mood all around. I wanted to stay just to chill, but then I had to get back to our booth in the big hall again. Crazy place with screaming people and screaming machines.
Offtopic:
This year I'd love to go see the Nintendo Wii despite all that screaming. To connect the Wii controller to a Mac would be awesome. I hope there is a way to run homebrew software on the Wii that can communicate the Wii controller's movements via network to a computer. Would be a great help in animation and 3D.
Originally posted by backtomac
I agree with you here. That's why, except for iSight, the new features that are being mentioned, only seem to add unnecessary cost IMO. Does someone looking for a low cost notebook need a magnetic latch and a magsafe powercord? I would have put in a cheap reliable latch and a cheap standard power source so as to keep cost as low as possible. I don't see these features as being that important to the typical buyer of this machine.
Those features cost less than you might think. If they are the same as the ones for the MBP, then Apple will save money by having one design and one stock number for each. It will cost less to buy them as well, because of the greater numbers being produced. It's the other features that are the problem, cost wise.
Originally posted by aplnub
That was with a $200 off instant rebate (I will have to hunt it down as it was my neighbor who found it). It is hard to find anything on their website. He is out of town but I will ask him Sunday night. He was about to order one and was commenting that Apple charged premium prices. I didn't believe until I saw it. I was thinking it was $599 with rebate.
The last time I saw ANY Dell laptop that cheap was after a big rebate and it wasn't a Duo, but a Solo. Its actually advertised on tv right now. Solo totally different ballgame.
The 13 Macbook won't have all the features necessary for this target group, because it will need to be priced aggressively ($1000)to compete agains all those Dell/Samsung/HP Mainstream Notebooks.
Also it would be nice if they introduced a 15" Macbook at sub $1500, which would be heavier, bigger, dimmer and less powerfull than a $2000 Macbook Pro.
Considering that they will be adding the iSight cam, mag-safe connector, a more expensive 13 widescreen LCD and a more expensive core-duo processor, I'd say chances are extremely slim that the price-point will remain at $999.
are misled. Apple has been selling that model at this price point since august last year, hence the components are probably not that decisive when Apple is setting the prices. Also, Apple will probably have landed a good price on that 13,3" screen. The core duo will also be cheaper for them to acquire, as it is finding its way into consumer machines in many pc portables. The iSight is not that expensive, since its based on cheaper tech than the external model, and the magsafe is an Apple-internal developed tech, making it not that expensive. Thus, if Apple wants to compete in the low end portable market they could easily stay at the current price levels.
.. Oh, and incidentally I just sold my old iBook today, at just under 1000US$.
Integrated graphics makes the most sense on a 13" MacBook (especially the low end one) since most people won't be doing any hardcore gaming on it. The screen is too small (IMO) for gaming...and these suckers will be used mainly for school work or other non-gaming activities.
It would make no sense to stick a graphics card in there and up the price point by 100-200$.
Heck...integrated graphics makes on the MacBook makes more sense than integrated graphics on the Mac mini. People are more likely to game with the Mac mini than with the MacBook.
If Apple ships a 999$ MacBook that's at least a Core Duo...I'm buying it.
Originally posted by melgross
All I'm saying now, is that I hope Apple doesn't have to raise the price above $999, because raising the price of the Mini has hurt sales. I don't think anyone here wants that to happen to the MacMook as well.
With prices of PC laptops below even $699, an Apple MacBook at $1099 will be a hard sell.
In the post I quoted, it sounded like you didn't want a sub $999 price. It looks like I misunderstood.
Originally posted by DeaPeaJay
Apple isn't a company that uses cheap parts to lower costs. If they were, I doubt all of us here would be talking about an upcoming product with such anticipation.
Unless it is a Maxtor hard drive. At least those are easily replacable, unless you have any Mac that isn't a tower.
Originally posted by Mr. Dirk
My guess is that Apple will keep the $999 and $1299 price points--which shouldn't be too hard if you factor in the price cuts on the Core Duos which have been rumored to happen (have happened?) in May. (I had considered, though, Apple bumping up prices to $1299 and $1499--who knows, maybe significantly more people buy the current $1299 iBook versus the $999 iBook, enough so they could drop that price point?)
That said, while magsafe and magnetic latches aren't exactly super-necessary, despite what Steve says, Apple isn't just about software--it needs its hardware to be differentiated, too. (Beyond just looks.) So, while neither of those two are the cheapest options, they do go towards creating for the customer an important part of the "Apple experience"--convenience.
I hope you are right and my concerns will have been ill founded. The $999 price point is important, IMO, for this machine. Have other configs at higher prices, but I think it's important to keep $999 as the starting point. Otherwise I think some buyers won't even look at Apple. With the problems MS is having with Vista don't give buyers a reason NOT to look at Apple.
or all the config @ alu casing, that will be sweet!
i love that alu keyboard, so nice to type on it...
Originally posted by melgross
All I'm saying now, is that I hope Apple doesn't have to raise the price above $999, because raising the price of the Mini has hurt sales. I don't think anyone here wants that to happen to the MacMook as well.
I also remember the introduction of the Mac mini, when Jobs stood on stage and talked about how they wanted to build a sub $500 desktop because it was a "sweet spot".. Well, that didn't last long.
What data do you have that shows mini sales are hurting?
I don't think Apple is in business to shoot for the bottom of the barrel in terms of unit price. Who cares if Dell has a $300 desktop or a $600 laptop. I wouldn't buy them anyway because I'd have to run Windows and IMHO they look like shit compared to Apple's computers. Right now Apple is trying to find a medium in which they can don't have to sacrifice their margins but can still deliver a quality product at a price consumers will still pay.
MacBook the Lesser
13.3" Widescreen Display
1.66 GHz Intel Core Duo
SuperDrive
Built-In WiFi and Bluetooth
60 GB SATA HDD
512 MB DDR2 667MHz RAM
Integrated Graphics
MagSafe, magnet latchy thing, iSight, remote
$999
--> Yeah, it's pretty much the high end mini with a screen and a camera
MacBook the Great
13.3" Widescreen Display
1.83 GHz Intel Core Duo
SuperDrive
Built-In WiFi and Bluetooth
80 GB SATA HDD
512 MB DDR2 667 MHz
Integrated Graphics
MagSafe, magnet latchy thing, iSight, remote
$1299
SooperDooper MacBook
12" Display
3.0 GHz Intel Core Quadro
SuperDrive
WiFi & Bluetooth
1 TB SATA HDD (No RAID, just a big, fuckin' block on the back of the computer...)
4 GB DDR2 RAM
QUADRO FX 4500 512MB SDRAM (I know, I know ... but there will be a slot in the side where I can plug in my PCI-express graphics card, thereby eliminating GPU heat in the laptop and letting me play all my games with no slow down or tearing)
MagSafe, magnet latchy thing, iSight, remote, toaster, tote bag and autographed picture of Steve Jobs...
$1599 -- That's still too damn much though .. I'll wait for Rev. B and pray that it's in an aluminum case