Are people still thinking that the PS3 is going to sweep this round? Is it still going to be "the big player" in the hd-dvd/blu-ray format war?
the funny thing kupan is that you will still hear it from people "after the first year sony will catch up and pass both nintendo and microsoft in market share"
its the dumbest and most assumptious bullcrap i've ever heard. all of it is based on past performances
which in my opinion is incredibly ridiculous given the fickle nature of the industry and its audience.
Regardless of whether it's overpriced, underpowered, ugly etc etc PS3 will sell out. Anybody who thinks otherwise is deluded. Whether sales continue like PS2 depends on reviews, games, etc.
more expensive console + more expensive games = more money made!!!
Thats got to be the thinking, right?
The article read to me that there was an upper limit on games and prices would be closer to current pricing rather than closer to $100.
Oblivion on the 360 is $69.99 on Amazon for the 360. I'm going to guess that PS3 games will hit the same $69.99 price point and be price competitive on all shared titles.
The thinking is probably that the games cost more to make this generation than the last given the relatively high bar set for production values and new development environment. So devs will be charging more just to break even.
Consoles will still be a good value even at $10 more per title because the resale market for used console games is fairly solid. Used PC games have disappeared from the local retailers. Personally, I'm a PC gamer but even an expensive PS3 is a better value than a real gaming rig. A PS2 (assuming a non-buggy one) purchased at retail in 2000 for $299 would have lasted 6 years before the replacement cycle to a PS3.
A top end 2000 computer would not likely have survived as a viable gaming rig for the latest titles (gutting it and replacing motherboard, power supply, memory, vid card, drives, etc is an like saying you only had 1 scotch by refilling the glass when it got low).
I could buy a $2000 Alienware Aurora or a $700 Alienware Area 51 or a $700 PS3.
Which of the three will have the longest gaming legs? Which of these can I buy AAA titles a few months after release for $15-$25 on the used market?
Regardless of whether it's overpriced, underpowered, ugly etc etc PS3 will sell out. Anybody who thinks otherwise is deluded. Whether sales continue like PS2 depends on reviews, games, etc.
I completely agree. There will be people that will buy it because "it's a Sony". The question to be seen is if it will continue to sell as well, or if it ends up taking backseat to Nintendo and Microsoft this round. If that is the case, Blu-Ray looses it's shoe in the door, as most of the initial sales will not be for a high-def player, but for gaming.
The PS3 is *not* overpriced, it is *underpriced*. Sony has said so themselves. How else do you think they have a blu-ray drive in their console and it's still only $600? They're using the games that *they* produce to make up for the loss.
A Toshiba senior executive has predicted that Microsoft will release an Xbox 360 model with an internal HD DVD drive before the end of the year.
According to the general manager of Toshiba Information Systems Division in Australia, Mark Whittard, the high definition video war between Toshiba?s HD DVD and Sony?s Blu-ray formats will spill over into the games console market within months.
?One looming potential war extending from this is the Xbox versus PlayStation,? says Whittard. ?The Xbox is coming out with an HD DVD player towards the end of this year. With Microsoft?s marketing engine behind HD DVD, who knows what will happen.?
The Xbox 360 is coming out with a HD DVD player? This is news to us. We were under the impression that there would just be a HD DVD plug-in available.
?I would imagine that there are plans in place to put an HD DVD drive internally in future revisions of the product,? says Whittard. ?They?re not speaking about it publicly at the moment but I would expect them to do that and fairly soon.?
Whittard repeated his expectation that an Xbox 360 with an internal HD DVD drive will be available soon during an interview where he refuted claims that Toshiba is selling its HD DVD player at a loss
The Thlot Plickens. The PS3 is going to have a bigger battle to contend with. I'd consider scuttling my plans for a PS3 in lieu of an HD DVD Xbox 360.
The PS3 is *not* overpriced, it is *underpriced*. Sony has said so themselves. How else do you think they have a blu-ray drive in their console and it's still only $600? They're using the games that *they* produce to make up for the loss.
It doesn't matter whether it's over or under priced relative to the cost of its components. What matters is that $600 is an unprecendented amount of money to spend on a mainstream gaming console.
Is there a listed price anywhere? I couldn't find one.
Quote:
icfireball
I do still think HD-DVD is a more marketable name and logo.
I'm not so sure. I think people will get confused. Old/stupid people might think they can play HD-DVD in a DVD drive but fewer will think you can play a Blu-Ray disc in a DVD player.
I think both logos look pretty bad but I prefer Blu-Ray:
The thinking is probably that the games cost more to make this generation than the last given the relatively high bar set for production values and new development environment. So devs will be charging more just to break even.
This is a little off topic, but the relative successes and failures amoung this new generation of video games and consoles will really shed a lot of light on the economics of the video game market.
Moreover, if Nintendo can provide a compelling, inexpensive product in the Wii, it will have a great chance to capture more market than just the "casual" gamers that it is targeting.
this bluray drive that will come with the ps3 will most likely than not be one of those really shitty bargain players just like the ps2 dvd player was.
who the hell still uses the ps2 for a dvd player? even when it came out, a year later, no one was using the damn thing.. it was horrible.
this bluray drive that will come with the ps3 will most likely than not be one of those really shitty bargain players just like the ps2 dvd player was.
who the hell still uses the ps2 for a dvd player? even when it came out, a year later, no one was using the damn thing.. it was horrible.
as i have commented in response to this before...
I USED AND STILL USE the PS2 as a DVD player, im sure im not alone
The Thlot Plickens. The PS3 is going to have a bigger battle to contend with. I'd consider scuttling my plans for a PS3 in lieu of an HD DVD Xbox 360.
That will make present Xbox360 owners real happy--having them pay for a entire new console. If they, have a internal replaceable unit that users can install on current consoles, that would be one thing, but even at this, your looking at potential voided warranties, accidental damages, frequent returns, etc. as you have users cracking open their 360 to replace their drive. I'm going to go out on a limb and say I don't think this would be a great strategy at all--cost wise or consumer-friendly wise.
Furthermore, if it is an internal or external add-on, they better be making it capable of more than 720P output from what is expected. Also, as we've discussed add-nauseum is the fact of how external add-on drives historically fail, and I don't see this drive changing that history. Also, they better find a way too sell it less than the expected and at one time temporarily posted price of $199 which would put them at the same exact price of a built-in Blu-ray drive PS3.
Also, from what I understand is that the add-on for the Xbox 360 as it is currently, will only be capable of playing HD DVD movies and not capable of playing games on the HD DVD format. Still want to scuttle your plans for a PS3? Probably, as we all know you are a fanboy of everything Microsoft, from their backed HD format of HD DVD, to their interactive layer in iHD, to their encoding software in VC-1, and now of course to their gaming console in the 360 despite having a standard DVD drive, and only 1080i output.
So, honestly, scuttle away as I wouldn't expect anything less from a Microsoftie, but your considerations are just that, yours. Let others consider the facts, and practice their free agency upon those facts as to what they'll purchase, and not on fear mongering from you.
Do you ever get the feeling that "your" best interests aren't being accounted for as a consumer. Do you ever get that sneaky suspicion that some articles have some underlying motives?
Marzetta may like posting info from "web rags" but I haven't trusted the media in years.
Interesting "web rags" comment, when just a few weeks ago, a lot of you Microsoftie supporters were posting links from IGN about how the PS3 lost at this years E3 convention. Not to mention all the links from IGN on how well the Wii performed. First a dig on CNet, now on IGN, which is one of the best if not the best game reporting website. So, it begs the question, where do you get your information from?
If you don't trust or somewhat trust some sort of media outlet, where are you getting your information? Are these the inside industry sources that we keep hearing about from you?...Who are they, do tell, because we are still all enthralled about how China is going to save the day for HD DVD still and how certain Hollywood studios are going to defect to HD DVD, etc. Are you getting your information from the Microsoft PR machine a la Amir? Or what? From people over at AVS claiming 50,000 Toshiba units have sold?
Really, I'm not looking for answers to the above questions, but rather just wanted to exploit how transparent your post really was in terms of underlying motives and your sneaky suspicions.
Marzetta7 sorry man I don't think you have the leverage to exploit anything. I've never quoted IGN because I'm not a gamer and don't frequent their site nor do I particularly trust their info. It was recent that it was brought to my attention that they are owned by fox.
Cnet IMO has a horrible history for accuracy. Sure a broken clock is right twice a day so they'll get some things right but I prefer to use other sources if possible.
Amir is a good source you do have to understand that he's coming from the Microsoft pov but that doesn't negate some of the good info on VC-1 that he provides. Ben Waggoner is another guy who recently joined Microsoft but has a good rep for good info.
Alex Millians is another good source. Like any good piece of information you have to see if it really applies. If it makes sense and is plausible. I simply try to get as much info as I can and make, what I consider to be, a rational decision.
I've said that 50GB DL discs are hard to make and would be costly and the discs that have been released and are scheduled to be released on BD are all 25GB SL including Ultraviolet which was pegged to be DL50 by some sources. Clearly there's a yield issue here corroborating the predictions by the very people you chide.
China will be a factor for both platforms. No one can beat their low cost labor. I don't think I've been sneaky at all. I've followed both platforms closely. I've comitted myself to owning both but when I looked at what I needed in a movie distribution format I realized that HD DVD meets this need and has the potential of being the cheaper format. That is why I champion them because they are a solution that most adroitly handles the problems of today.
Blu-Ray "is" technically superior but my point has always been that technical superiority has been in areas that are not going translate into a better picture. I'm interested in keeping cost low for consumer and producers so I'm looking at both sides of the coin. I have friends that are in to filmmaking and costs of pressing your creation onto HD DVD or Blu-Ray is of keen interest to me. As a indie producer you won't get any subsidy whatsoever the platform's "true" cost is important.
Is there a listed price anywhere? I couldn't find one.
I'm not so sure. I think people will get confused. Old/stupid people might think they can play HD-DVD in a DVD drive but fewer will think you can play a Blu-Ray disc in a DVD player.
I think both logos look pretty bad but I prefer Blu-Ray:
The entertainment and electronics market has already invested millions of dollars into the promotion of "HD".
The HD lable with a dvd would certainly make sense to the consumer. The logo looks more integrated and similar (although not confusingly so) to the current dvd logo. The Blu ray technology is in my opinion much better than the HD DVD technology however.
The entertainment and electronics market has already invested millions of dollars into the promotion of "HD".
The HD lable with a dvd would certainly make sense to the consumer. The logo looks more integrated and similar (although not confusingly so) to the current dvd logo. The Blu ray technology is in my opinion much better than the HD DVD technology however.
Exactly. If a group of people are talking about this, they know what HD is, and know what DVD is, and can easily put it together to mean high definition DVD. Now, talking about Blu-Ray, they think what is this? They would actually have to read up on it to know what it was, because the name doesn't give it away. Blu-Ray doesn't have the name recognition that HD-DVD does and will, and don't discount that.
Comments
Originally posted by hmurchison
He's basically saying "don't crucify me when you see some $79 titles"
Man the PS3 is certainly becoming the game console for the middle class and up. Microsoft must be licking their chops here.
We'll see of 6 million people feel the Sony is worth it.
Here in the UK pre-order games are £49 RRP, whereas PS2 is £39 RRP.
I won't be buying many at £49!
Originally posted by kupan787
Is
Are people still thinking that the PS3 is going to sweep this round? Is it still going to be "the big player" in the hd-dvd/blu-ray format war?
the funny thing kupan is that you will still hear it from people "after the first year sony will catch up and pass both nintendo and microsoft in market share"
its the dumbest and most assumptious bullcrap i've ever heard. all of it is based on past performances
which in my opinion is incredibly ridiculous given the fickle nature of the industry and its audience.
Originally posted by kupan787
[B]Is Sony total insane, or just partially. Sony to raise game prices
Lets see
more expensive console + more expensive games = more money made!!!
Thats got to be the thinking, right?
The article read to me that there was an upper limit on games and prices would be closer to current pricing rather than closer to $100.
Oblivion on the 360 is $69.99 on Amazon for the 360. I'm going to guess that PS3 games will hit the same $69.99 price point and be price competitive on all shared titles.
The thinking is probably that the games cost more to make this generation than the last given the relatively high bar set for production values and new development environment. So devs will be charging more just to break even.
Consoles will still be a good value even at $10 more per title because the resale market for used console games is fairly solid. Used PC games have disappeared from the local retailers. Personally, I'm a PC gamer but even an expensive PS3 is a better value than a real gaming rig. A PS2 (assuming a non-buggy one) purchased at retail in 2000 for $299 would have lasted 6 years before the replacement cycle to a PS3.
A top end 2000 computer would not likely have survived as a viable gaming rig for the latest titles (gutting it and replacing motherboard, power supply, memory, vid card, drives, etc is an like saying you only had 1 scotch by refilling the glass when it got low).
I could buy a $2000 Alienware Aurora or a $700 Alienware Area 51 or a $700 PS3.
Which of the three will have the longest gaming legs? Which of these can I buy AAA titles a few months after release for $15-$25 on the used market?
Vinea
Originally posted by Blackcat
Regardless of whether it's overpriced, underpowered, ugly etc etc PS3 will sell out. Anybody who thinks otherwise is deluded. Whether sales continue like PS2 depends on reviews, games, etc.
I completely agree. There will be people that will buy it because "it's a Sony". The question to be seen is if it will continue to sell as well, or if it ends up taking backseat to Nintendo and Microsoft this round. If that is the case, Blu-Ray looses it's shoe in the door, as most of the initial sales will not be for a high-def player, but for gaming.
A Toshiba senior executive has predicted that Microsoft will release an Xbox 360 model with an internal HD DVD drive before the end of the year.
According to the general manager of Toshiba Information Systems Division in Australia, Mark Whittard, the high definition video war between Toshiba?s HD DVD and Sony?s Blu-ray formats will spill over into the games console market within months.
?One looming potential war extending from this is the Xbox versus PlayStation,? says Whittard. ?The Xbox is coming out with an HD DVD player towards the end of this year. With Microsoft?s marketing engine behind HD DVD, who knows what will happen.?
The Xbox 360 is coming out with a HD DVD player? This is news to us. We were under the impression that there would just be a HD DVD plug-in available.
?I would imagine that there are plans in place to put an HD DVD drive internally in future revisions of the product,? says Whittard. ?They?re not speaking about it publicly at the moment but I would expect them to do that and fairly soon.?
Whittard repeated his expectation that an Xbox 360 with an internal HD DVD drive will be available soon during an interview where he refuted claims that Toshiba is selling its HD DVD player at a loss
The Thlot Plickens. The PS3 is going to have a bigger battle to contend with. I'd consider scuttling my plans for a PS3 in lieu of an HD DVD Xbox 360.
Originally posted by Lust
The PS3 is *not* overpriced, it is *underpriced*. Sony has said so themselves. How else do you think they have a blu-ray drive in their console and it's still only $600? They're using the games that *they* produce to make up for the loss.
It doesn't matter whether it's over or under priced relative to the cost of its components. What matters is that $600 is an unprecendented amount of money to spend on a mainstream gaming console.
Originally posted by marzetta7
Plextor Ships First Blu-ray Drive
Is there a listed price anywhere? I couldn't find one.
icfireball
I do still think HD-DVD is a more marketable name and logo.
I'm not so sure. I think people will get confused. Old/stupid people might think they can play HD-DVD in a DVD drive but fewer will think you can play a Blu-Ray disc in a DVD player.
I think both logos look pretty bad but I prefer Blu-Ray:
Originally posted by vinea
The thinking is probably that the games cost more to make this generation than the last given the relatively high bar set for production values and new development environment. So devs will be charging more just to break even.
This is a little off topic, but the relative successes and failures amoung this new generation of video games and consoles will really shed a lot of light on the economics of the video game market.
Moreover, if Nintendo can provide a compelling, inexpensive product in the Wii, it will have a great chance to capture more market than just the "casual" gamers that it is targeting.
who the hell still uses the ps2 for a dvd player? even when it came out, a year later, no one was using the damn thing.. it was horrible.
Originally posted by Elixir
this bluray drive that will come with the ps3 will most likely than not be one of those really shitty bargain players just like the ps2 dvd player was.
who the hell still uses the ps2 for a dvd player? even when it came out, a year later, no one was using the damn thing.. it was horrible.
as i have commented in response to this before...
I USED AND STILL USE the PS2 as a DVD player, im sure im not alone
As we all know from Tron and our political system, Blue=good and Red=bad.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Toshiba Exec says he expect HD DVD enabled Xbox 360 this year
The Thlot Plickens. The PS3 is going to have a bigger battle to contend with. I'd consider scuttling my plans for a PS3 in lieu of an HD DVD Xbox 360.
That will make present Xbox360 owners real happy--having them pay for a entire new console. If they, have a internal replaceable unit that users can install on current consoles, that would be one thing, but even at this, your looking at potential voided warranties, accidental damages, frequent returns, etc. as you have users cracking open their 360 to replace their drive. I'm going to go out on a limb and say I don't think this would be a great strategy at all--cost wise or consumer-friendly wise.
Furthermore, if it is an internal or external add-on, they better be making it capable of more than 720P output from what is expected. Also, as we've discussed add-nauseum is the fact of how external add-on drives historically fail, and I don't see this drive changing that history. Also, they better find a way too sell it less than the expected and at one time temporarily posted price of $199 which would put them at the same exact price of a built-in Blu-ray drive PS3.
Also, from what I understand is that the add-on for the Xbox 360 as it is currently, will only be capable of playing HD DVD movies and not capable of playing games on the HD DVD format. Still want to scuttle your plans for a PS3? Probably, as we all know you are a fanboy of everything Microsoft, from their backed HD format of HD DVD, to their interactive layer in iHD, to their encoding software in VC-1, and now of course to their gaming console in the 360 despite having a standard DVD drive, and only 1080i output.
So, honestly, scuttle away as I wouldn't expect anything less from a Microsoftie, but your considerations are just that, yours. Let others consider the facts, and practice their free agency upon those facts as to what they'll purchase, and not on fear mongering from you.
Originally posted by Trendannoyer
as i have commented in response to this before...
I USED AND STILL USE the PS2 as a DVD player, im sure im not alone
You're not, and won't be in the future with the PS3!
Originally posted by hmurchison
Yeah I know it's kind of hard to compete with stuff like this.
http://corp.ign.com/
Do you ever get the feeling that "your" best interests aren't being accounted for as a consumer. Do you ever get that sneaky suspicion that some articles have some underlying motives?
Marzetta may like posting info from "web rags" but I haven't trusted the media in years.
Interesting "web rags" comment, when just a few weeks ago, a lot of you Microsoftie supporters were posting links from IGN about how the PS3 lost at this years E3 convention. Not to mention all the links from IGN on how well the Wii performed. First a dig on CNet, now on IGN, which is one of the best if not the best game reporting website. So, it begs the question, where do you get your information from?
If you don't trust or somewhat trust some sort of media outlet, where are you getting your information? Are these the inside industry sources that we keep hearing about from you?...Who are they, do tell, because we are still all enthralled about how China is going to save the day for HD DVD still and how certain Hollywood studios are going to defect to HD DVD, etc. Are you getting your information from the Microsoft PR machine a la Amir? Or what? From people over at AVS claiming 50,000 Toshiba units have sold?
Really, I'm not looking for answers to the above questions, but rather just wanted to exploit how transparent your post really was in terms of underlying motives and your sneaky suspicions.
Cnet IMO has a horrible history for accuracy. Sure a broken clock is right twice a day so they'll get some things right but I prefer to use other sources if possible.
Amir is a good source you do have to understand that he's coming from the Microsoft pov but that doesn't negate some of the good info on VC-1 that he provides. Ben Waggoner is another guy who recently joined Microsoft but has a good rep for good info.
Alex Millians is another good source. Like any good piece of information you have to see if it really applies. If it makes sense and is plausible. I simply try to get as much info as I can and make, what I consider to be, a rational decision.
I've said that 50GB DL discs are hard to make and would be costly and the discs that have been released and are scheduled to be released on BD are all 25GB SL including Ultraviolet which was pegged to be DL50 by some sources. Clearly there's a yield issue here corroborating the predictions by the very people you chide.
China will be a factor for both platforms. No one can beat their low cost labor. I don't think I've been sneaky at all. I've followed both platforms closely. I've comitted myself to owning both but when I looked at what I needed in a movie distribution format I realized that HD DVD meets this need and has the potential of being the cheaper format. That is why I champion them because they are a solution that most adroitly handles the problems of today.
Blu-Ray "is" technically superior but my point has always been that technical superiority has been in areas that are not going translate into a better picture. I'm interested in keeping cost low for consumer and producers so I'm looking at both sides of the coin. I have friends that are in to filmmaking and costs of pressing your creation onto HD DVD or Blu-Ray is of keen interest to me. As a indie producer you won't get any subsidy whatsoever the platform's "true" cost is important.
seriously , shut up !
the first thing you think of when you hear s"ps3 will cost 600 dollars, games might be 60-70 dollars" is wow thats expensive.
you dont need to read a stupid site to know this, and start to question the potential of a failure at this price point.
enough with backing up dumb arguments with even more dumb speculative arguments from sources that copy other sources, that copy other sources.
Originally posted by Marvin
Is there a listed price anywhere? I couldn't find one.
I'm not so sure. I think people will get confused. Old/stupid people might think they can play HD-DVD in a DVD drive but fewer will think you can play a Blu-Ray disc in a DVD player.
I think both logos look pretty bad but I prefer Blu-Ray:
The entertainment and electronics market has already invested millions of dollars into the promotion of "HD".
The HD lable with a dvd would certainly make sense to the consumer. The logo looks more integrated and similar (although not confusingly so) to the current dvd logo. The Blu ray technology is in my opinion much better than the HD DVD technology however.
Originally posted by icfireball
The entertainment and electronics market has already invested millions of dollars into the promotion of "HD".
The HD lable with a dvd would certainly make sense to the consumer. The logo looks more integrated and similar (although not confusingly so) to the current dvd logo. The Blu ray technology is in my opinion much better than the HD DVD technology however.
Exactly. If a group of people are talking about this, they know what HD is, and know what DVD is, and can easily put it together to mean high definition DVD. Now, talking about Blu-Ray, they think what is this? They would actually have to read up on it to know what it was, because the name doesn't give it away. Blu-Ray doesn't have the name recognition that HD-DVD does and will, and don't discount that.