Wait. I think I got it - you're assuming a Merom being $100 more expensive than Conroe.
Then the next question would be thermal management and acoustics that are attractive to Apple. Unless they want to make the iMac even slimmer and sexier and thus stick to Merom.
Boy, I wonder how these companies make all these decisions at various levels of management....
Engineering and design involve a dizzying number of decisions. Sometimes decisions are made and then have to be remade later to account for unexpected needs found in interconnected systems.
The $100 figure was pulled from a post in this thread, or a recent thread, based on public lot costs, but it looks like you found some pricing figures. As someone mentioned elsewhere, Apple likely doesn't pay those prices but they are rough guides. Even if the difference was only $50, I think it's possible they could make the switch to Conroe pay for itself in the first week of sales. Whether it would be unacceptably louder or unacceptably hotter, I don't know. I think it would still be a far quieter and cooler than the first iMac G5s.
While it might happen, I don't think it is time to slim down the iMac just yet, the current enclosure shape is maybe less than nine months old. I think the original iMac G5 shape lasted more than two years.
A fine example of form limiting function. Isn't form supposed to follow function in good design? I will be very disappointed if you're right.
Heh. Look at the calculations above. If Apple is gonna make a sexier, slimmer iMac and then being "forced" to use Merom then form is placed well above function and they "sacrifice" the cost savings of Conroe.
If Apple is sensible(?) they can go Conroe, realise the savings in CPU costs, and keep the current iMac form factor (given it's experience with handling G5 chip heat).
But Apple would not be Apple without distinct-looking hardware, for the sake of form over function... Though you could argue that in some cases they got it right where form and function are in harmony. Boy, whole 'nother industrial design question you've raised there...
I've asked this question before, why does a desktop have to be 'thin' and 'lightweight'? The iMac could be an inch thicker and 2 pounds heavier and it would be just as good IMO. How many times do you move it after it's set up? A few pc vendors will probably stuff conroes into their portable lineup. I'm not in favor of that as I like notebook machines that are light and thin and have long battery life. But in a desktop, I want as much power as I can get for the money. While people are praising woodcrest for it's performance per watt, I think conroe may well end up being the king of performance per dollar. The iMac is Apple's crown jewell in many ways, give it conroe.
I wonder if this is true. Merom was supposed to be coming out in the 4th quarter, according to Intel's own roadmap....If it is true, I wonder why?...The rumors about Apple demand... er, requesting, that Intel move the chip introductions forwards might be true, if it is happening....This is suspiciously timed for the Dev Conf.
Hate to burst your bubble, Apple fans, but Intel is not on a steamroller and a screaming schedule because Steve Jobs is whispering in Paul Ottelini's ear.
Intel has put in a lot of work to get it's 65nm fabs in full swing. It has launched a barrage (bad language to use in these times I know) of Core architecture CPUs that are kicking ass. These CPUs are getting out and early to the public and hardware enthusiast sites. Conroe is a clear AMD-Athlon killer and Intel has published a raft of benchmarks already with the Xeon Woodcrests, taking on the Opterons hard and fast. Yonah was a great debut, and Merom looks solid and Meroms have sneaked out to some people already.
What we are looking at is a rejuvenated Intel that is focused on three things:
1. 65nm fab process that kicks ass.
2. A new microarchitecture that delivers performance-per-watt above all competitors. Note that in the TomsHardware.com review the Conroe was generally beating the Athlons while consuming less overall system power at idle, mid, and full loads.
3. Competing on price. They've slashed the Netbursts down heavily. The Pentium D 805 at about $100+ overclocks to 3ghz easily. Not bad for a dual core that say at worst is equivalent to an Athlon X2 @ 2ghz. A hundred-buck CPU. Retail.
I don't think Apple is influencing Intel. Apple is riding high on the tradewinds, surfing the best that any Apple CPU-vendor has delivered in several years.
The best part of this is the product cycles and marketing of Apple computers, compared with Intel. On one hand, you have Intel churning out faster, cheaper, better processors. On the other, you have Apple which makes measured introductions of products which are updated usually twice or at most three times a year.
It's great for Apple, because they can continue to sell Apple products at similar prices for longer while their cpu costs keep dropping. Read: Profit Margin Bonuses.
Remember that Apple marketing and it's target market is not generally obsessed by having the latest and greatest out of Intel. Consumers want something reliable and fun and easy to use. Pros want something yes, beefy, gets the job done, and lasts a while until their next budget review gives them upgrades.
Again, this is a scenario where Apple can make measured introductions and updates of products, with the latest and best CPUs, and inbetween intros and updates, have their profit margins look very healthy as Intel throws more and more chips at them for less and less money.
Waiting for Apple products to be updated with this level of change and improvement out of Intel gets a bit crazy. It's back to PC land, my friends, where it's obsolete the moment you buy it, specwhore-wise. Get what you need, when you need, and feel good about what you can do with it for the time you want to keep it. (hmm... this line is going in my sig)
Don't be so sure there hasn't been some influence there. Intel wants Apple to do well here on its chips. If Apple tanks because of delivery, then it will be blamed on Intel. I also believe that there is more going on than we know.
I've asked this question before, why does a desktop have to be 'thin' and 'lightweight'? The iMac could be an inch thicker and 2 pounds heavier and it would be just as good IMO. How many times do you move it after it's set up? A few pc vendors will probably stuff conroes into their portable lineup. I'm not in favor of that as I like notebook machines that are light and thin and have long battery life. But in a desktop, I want as much power as I can get for the money. While people are praising woodcrest for it's performance per watt, I think conroe may well end up being the king of performance per dollar. The iMac is Apple's crown jewell in many ways, give it conroe.
It doesn't have to be. Jobs wants it to be. And, it is a good selling feature. I've "sold" quite a lot of them on that feature. Schools like it as well.
I suppose the extra pount ot two, and a bit more depth, wouldn't make much of a difference, but it's also a selling point. The newer ones are easier to turn than the older ones were.
I just wish they kept the easy VESA mounting option. The lower weight helps there, as the arms are just marginal at that weight. The older models were too heavy for standard arms, at least that's true for the 20".
Thanks for posting that. Again, why would Apple wait an extra month and pay another $100 for a slower chip just to save a few watt's of power consumption and heat. Of course they know more then we do and we can only speculate, but it doesn't make sense for Apple to ignore the Conroe for the iMac. Perhaps making it bigger was the plan all along. With the relase of the 17inch EDU iMac, I'm willing to bet the line expands to 23inchs with the Conroe at 2.40 and 20inch with the 2.13 Conroe and remains Yonnah for the EDU iMac which will once again be avaliable to the public.
Thanks for posting that. Again, why would Apple wait an extra month and pay another $100 for a slower chip just to save a few watt's of power consumption and heat. Of course they know more then we do and we can only speculate, but it doesn't make sense for Apple to ignore the Conroe for the iMac. Perhaps making it bigger was the plan all along. With the relase of the 17inch EDU iMac, I'm willing to bet the line expands to 23inchs with the Conroe at 2.40 and 20inch with the 2.13 Conroe and remains Yonnah for the EDU iMac which will once again be avaliable to the public.
Cool. Only thing is, don't expect iMac updates until a few more months, maybe October in the run-up to Christmas buying season. So Apple for the next few months can continue to sell iMac Core Duos at the same price (retail and edu) while they continue to pay less and less for the Yonahs in them.
Also, the current 17" and 20" iMac Core Duos won't have to get bigger. The current form factor or something very close to it externally/ internally was able to handle a very hot G5.
Your line up looks interesting: 17"/20" edu iMac Yonahs, 17" 1.86ghz Conroe, 20" 2.13ghz Conroe, 23" 2.40ghz Conroe.
[i]Cool. Only thing is, don't expect iMac updates until a few more months, maybe October in the run-up to Christmas buying season. So Apple for the next few months can continue to sell iMac Core Duos at the same price (retail and edu) while they continue to pay less and less for the Yonahs in them.
The Mini is a better option for an update close to Christmas, since it is a lower cost unit it is more likely to be given as a gift. The iMac is better for an August/Early September release because it is more likely to be purchased for back to school season by high school and college students. That would also allow a reasonable time between it's release and a possible update in San Francisco next January. This would also be more in line with the order that they were released earlier this year. This would allow for a September/October release of MacBook Pro's and MacBooks with late October release of the Mini in time to get enough press for the Holiday shopping season. Add in to that an updated iPod, a Video device (we can dream can't we?), iTMS announcements and software updates and Apple could easily have enough press releases to keep their name visible through November and that is all they need to do.
Cool. Only thing is, don't expect iMac updates until a few more months, maybe October in the run-up to Christmas buying season. So Apple for the next few months can continue to sell iMac Core Duos at the same price (retail and edu) while they continue to pay less and less for the Yonahs in them.
Also, the current 17" and 20" iMac Core Duos won't have to get bigger. The current form factor or something very close to it externally/ internally was able to handle a very hot G5.
Your line up looks interesting: 17"/20" edu iMac Yonahs, 17" 1.86ghz Conroe, 20" 2.13ghz Conroe, 23" 2.40ghz Conroe.
I doubt Apple would hold off on updating the iMac for the sole purpose of receiving a higher return off of cheaper, less powerful chips. First, given the loads of press the Core 2 chips have been getting, most people (myself included), would hold off on buying a computer with a chip at the end of its lifecycle. Therefore, the number of iMacs sold would drop. Second, although Apple has always charged a premium for their products, its laptop's components are powerful, and end up being comparably priced to similarly equipped PCs. If Apple does not upgrade to Core 2 chips, while other PC manufacturers do, it will be reflected in benchmarks (which are very easy to do now, with boot camp). Although most customers are happy to pay a premium for Apple, I personally wouldn't want to pay a premium for inferior hardware whose lifecycle has already ended.
...If Apple does not upgrade to Core 2 chips, while other PC manufacturers do, it will be reflected in benchmarks (which are very easy to do now, with boot camp)...
Not to mention getting SLAMED big time in the press. They will have a "reasonable" window to start using them in their "Flagship" products, but that will only give Apple about 2-4 weeks to announce products using them. The way I see it these "Flagship" products are the Mac Pro, iMac and Mac Book Pro. The others can lag a bit without too much bad press but those three will need to adopt the new chips in a reasonable amount of time.
It seems that people forget that, last january at MWSF06, the Yonah iMac was introduced sporting a 1.83-2.0Ghz processor while the MBP was introduced with a 1.67-1.83Ghz processor.
(Eventually when the MBP shipped it got faster chips, but that's another story)
I doubt the iMac will not use Conroe.
Conroe can be used in a lowcost ($1,499-1,799) Mac Pro and the iMac.
"Criple" the iMac by using Merom is bad for sales and makes the iMac unnecessary more expensive.
People rather pay $100 less, have a more powerfull computer and hear a whisper of a fan.
For the MBP Merom is a very good option.
It will take a while though, before it trickles down to the MacBook and Mac mini.
Merom is plenty fast and the target group is more than willing to make the trade in exchange for something quiet. It also helps Apple out since Merom is drop in compatible with current motherboards. They can wait for the new 965 mobile chipsets and new GPUs from ATI/Nvidia and announce a major update at MWSF. The iMac does not and cannot compete in the same market space as towers from HP and Dell. For that you need a tower like HP and Dell.
Merom is plenty fast and the target group is more than willing to make the trade in exchange for something quiet. It also helps Apple out since Merom is drop in compatible with current motherboards. They can wait for the new 965 mobile chipsets and new GPUs from ATI/Nvidia and announce a major update at MWSF. The iMac does not and cannot compete in the same market space as towers from HP and Dell. For that you need a tower like HP and Dell.
This is assuming that Apple will want to stay with the current mobo.
I'm not so sure they will want to. The Yonah machines were a way of getting these machines out fast. not much was done to them to make then unfamiliar to the current Mac customer. The true Core 2 Duo chip line is more powerful, and Apple has has more time to work on a redesign.
It's more than possible that they will come out with something more suited to a second generation product than what we've seen so far.
The first quarter is also their biggest selling season. They may want to come out with a killer product line for the holiday buying season. Slight changes might not be what they have in mind.
Merom is plenty fast and the target group is more than willing to make the trade in exchange for something quiet. It also helps Apple out since Merom is drop in compatible with current motherboards. They can wait for the new 965 mobile chipsets and new GPUs from ATI/Nvidia and announce a major update at MWSF. The iMac does not and cannot compete in the same market space as towers from HP and Dell. For that you need a tower like HP and Dell.
The GM/PM965 will most likely not be available until the release of the Santa Rosa version of the Centrino Platform in April. They have to update the laptops before that.
I will assume that they go with the Conroe in the iMac, even if the motherboard is based on an Intel reference design.
Not to mention getting SLAMED big time in the press. They will have a "reasonable" window to start using them in their "Flagship" products, but that will only give Apple about 2-4 weeks to announce products using them. The way I see it these "Flagship" products are the Mac Pro, iMac and Mac Book Pro. The others can lag a bit without too much bad press but those three will need to adopt the new chips in a reasonable amount of time.
Exactly. And, like someone else said, the iMac is a prime back-to-school computer. Updating it close to Christmas wouldn't make sense. If it's getting an update it's by the end of August which is when most Universities start. And think about it, sell it as the ultimate dorm option. Add a tv-tuner and it's a computer, dvd player, tv all in one slick and compact design.
Exactly. And, like someone else said, the iMac is a prime back-to-school computer. Updating it close to Christmas wouldn't make sense. If it's getting an update it's by the end of August which is when most Universities start. And think about it, sell it as the ultimate dorm option. Add a tv-tuner and it's a computer, dvd player, tv all in one slick and compact design.
I don't understand you guys calling for a back-to-school iMac. The back-to-school edu iMac was just released. It handled the end part of April-May-June quarter and is expected, along with backfilling orders of the MacBook, to be a mainstay for July-Aug-September as well.
This puts *any* iMac update (probably Conroe IMO) in October for Christmas buying, or something fancy schmancy in January Macworld 2007.
The Mini is a better option for an update close to Christmas, since it is a lower cost unit it is more likely to be given as a gift. The iMac is better for an August/Early September release because it is more likely to be purchased for back to school season by high school and college students. That would also allow a reasonable time between it's release and a possible update in San Francisco next January. This would also be more in line with the order that they were released earlier this year. This would allow for a September/October release of MacBook Pro's and MacBooks with late October release of the Mini in time to get enough press for the Holiday shopping season. Add in to that an updated iPod, a Video device (we can dream can't we?), iTMS announcements and software updates and Apple could easily have enough press releases to keep their name visible through November and that is all they need to do.
See my post above re: Edu iMac is already out, that's your back-to-school iMac all the way through to end of September. The iMac retail consumer version is very important for Christmas buying season so we might see either a small bump-type update or a full-on Conroe update.
I agree that Sep-Oct-Nov we'd be looking at MacBookPro and MacMini updates. MacBook updates might only round out the late part of the year, Oct-Nov. Since the current model looks solid and is selling strong all through to end of September.
See my post above re: Edu iMac is already out, that's your back-to-school iMac all the way through to end of September. The iMac retail consumer version is very important for Christmas buying season so we might see either a small bump-type update or a full-on Conroe update.
I agree that Sep-Oct-Nov we'd be looking at MacBookPro and MacMini updates. MacBook updates might only round out the late part of the year, Oct-Nov. Since the current model looks solid and is selling strong all through to end of September.
Didn't Apple pull the "edu iMac" from its website because it's only available to schools, not for students? See this appleinsider link. The Christmas buying season may be important, but the upcoming third quarter shouldn't be written off. If the rumor mills are true, Apple doesn't release a new iPod, it's going to need strong computer sales in Q3 to keep the analysts happy.
Comments
Originally posted by sunilraman
Wait. I think I got it - you're assuming a Merom being $100 more expensive than Conroe.
Then the next question would be thermal management and acoustics that are attractive to Apple. Unless they want to make the iMac even slimmer and sexier and thus stick to Merom.
Boy, I wonder how these companies make all these decisions at various levels of management....
Engineering and design involve a dizzying number of decisions. Sometimes decisions are made and then have to be remade later to account for unexpected needs found in interconnected systems.
The $100 figure was pulled from a post in this thread, or a recent thread, based on public lot costs, but it looks like you found some pricing figures. As someone mentioned elsewhere, Apple likely doesn't pay those prices but they are rough guides. Even if the difference was only $50, I think it's possible they could make the switch to Conroe pay for itself in the first week of sales. Whether it would be unacceptably louder or unacceptably hotter, I don't know. I think it would still be a far quieter and cooler than the first iMac G5s.
While it might happen, I don't think it is time to slim down the iMac just yet, the current enclosure shape is maybe less than nine months old. I think the original iMac G5 shape lasted more than two years.
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
A fine example of form limiting function. Isn't form supposed to follow function in good design? I will be very disappointed if you're right.
Heh. Look at the calculations above. If Apple is gonna make a sexier, slimmer iMac and then being "forced" to use Merom then form is placed well above function and they "sacrifice" the cost savings of Conroe.
If Apple is sensible(?) they can go Conroe, realise the savings in CPU costs, and keep the current iMac form factor (given it's experience with handling G5 chip heat).
But Apple would not be Apple without distinct-looking hardware, for the sake of form over function... Though you could argue that in some cases they got it right where form and function are in harmony. Boy, whole 'nother industrial design question you've raised there...
I've asked this question before, why does a desktop have to be 'thin' and 'lightweight'? The iMac could be an inch thicker and 2 pounds heavier and it would be just as good IMO. How many times do you move it after it's set up? A few pc vendors will probably stuff conroes into their portable lineup. I'm not in favor of that as I like notebook machines that are light and thin and have long battery life. But in a desktop, I want as much power as I can get for the money. While people are praising woodcrest for it's performance per watt, I think conroe may well end up being the king of performance per dollar. The iMac is Apple's crown jewell in many ways, give it conroe.
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I wonder if this is true. Merom was supposed to be coming out in the 4th quarter, according to Intel's own roadmap....If it is true, I wonder why?...The rumors about Apple demand... er, requesting, that Intel move the chip introductions forwards might be true, if it is happening....This is suspiciously timed for the Dev Conf.
Hate to burst your bubble, Apple fans, but Intel is not on a steamroller and a screaming schedule because Steve Jobs is whispering in Paul Ottelini's ear.
Intel has put in a lot of work to get it's 65nm fabs in full swing. It has launched a barrage (bad language to use in these times I know) of Core architecture CPUs that are kicking ass. These CPUs are getting out and early to the public and hardware enthusiast sites. Conroe is a clear AMD-Athlon killer and Intel has published a raft of benchmarks already with the Xeon Woodcrests, taking on the Opterons hard and fast. Yonah was a great debut, and Merom looks solid and Meroms have sneaked out to some people already.
What we are looking at is a rejuvenated Intel that is focused on three things:
1. 65nm fab process that kicks ass.
2. A new microarchitecture that delivers performance-per-watt above all competitors. Note that in the TomsHardware.com review the Conroe was generally beating the Athlons while consuming less overall system power at idle, mid, and full loads.
3. Competing on price. They've slashed the Netbursts down heavily. The Pentium D 805 at about $100+ overclocks to 3ghz easily. Not bad for a dual core that say at worst is equivalent to an Athlon X2 @ 2ghz. A hundred-buck CPU. Retail.
I don't think Apple is influencing Intel. Apple is riding high on the tradewinds, surfing the best that any Apple CPU-vendor has delivered in several years.
The best part of this is the product cycles and marketing of Apple computers, compared with Intel. On one hand, you have Intel churning out faster, cheaper, better processors. On the other, you have Apple which makes measured introductions of products which are updated usually twice or at most three times a year.
It's great for Apple, because they can continue to sell Apple products at similar prices for longer while their cpu costs keep dropping. Read: Profit Margin Bonuses.
Remember that Apple marketing and it's target market is not generally obsessed by having the latest and greatest out of Intel. Consumers want something reliable and fun and easy to use. Pros want something yes, beefy, gets the job done, and lasts a while until their next budget review gives them upgrades.
Again, this is a scenario where Apple can make measured introductions and updates of products, with the latest and best CPUs, and inbetween intros and updates, have their profit margins look very healthy as Intel throws more and more chips at them for less and less money.
Waiting for Apple products to be updated with this level of change and improvement out of Intel gets a bit crazy. It's back to PC land, my friends, where it's obsolete the moment you buy it, specwhore-wise. Get what you need, when you need, and feel good about what you can do with it for the time you want to keep it. (hmm... this line is going in my sig)
Don't be so sure there hasn't been some influence there. Intel wants Apple to do well here on its chips. If Apple tanks because of delivery, then it will be blamed on Intel. I also believe that there is more going on than we know.
Originally posted by backtomac
I've asked this question before, why does a desktop have to be 'thin' and 'lightweight'? The iMac could be an inch thicker and 2 pounds heavier and it would be just as good IMO. How many times do you move it after it's set up? A few pc vendors will probably stuff conroes into their portable lineup. I'm not in favor of that as I like notebook machines that are light and thin and have long battery life. But in a desktop, I want as much power as I can get for the money. While people are praising woodcrest for it's performance per watt, I think conroe may well end up being the king of performance per dollar. The iMac is Apple's crown jewell in many ways, give it conroe.
It doesn't have to be. Jobs wants it to be. And, it is a good selling feature. I've "sold" quite a lot of them on that feature. Schools like it as well.
I suppose the extra pount ot two, and a bit more depth, wouldn't make much of a difference, but it's also a selling point. The newer ones are easier to turn than the older ones were.
I just wish they kept the easy VESA mounting option. The lower weight helps there, as the arms are just marginal at that weight. The older models were too heavy for standard arms, at least that's true for the 20".
Originally posted by sunilraman
Merom
T7600, 2.33GHz, US$637
T7400, 2.16GHz, US$423
T7200, 2.0GHz, US$294
Conroe
E6700, 2.67GHz / 1066MHz, $530
E6600, 2.40GHz / 1066MHz, $316
E6400, 2.13GHz / 1066MHz, $224
E6300, 1.86GHz / 1066MHz, $183
Thanks for posting that. Again, why would Apple wait an extra month and pay another $100 for a slower chip just to save a few watt's of power consumption and heat. Of course they know more then we do and we can only speculate, but it doesn't make sense for Apple to ignore the Conroe for the iMac. Perhaps making it bigger was the plan all along. With the relase of the 17inch EDU iMac, I'm willing to bet the line expands to 23inchs with the Conroe at 2.40 and 20inch with the 2.13 Conroe and remains Yonnah for the EDU iMac which will once again be avaliable to the public.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Talking about Meroms and Yonahs with Isreal raging war ridiculously is a bit...odd.
Don't wait for Meroms...wait for Lebanon-Killer...it's sure to be a real blast.
listening to music while a war is waging is a bit...odd.
buying a new computer or tank of gas when that money could go to refugees of this war is a bit...odd.
Thanks for posting that. Again, why would Apple wait an extra month and pay another $100 for a slower chip just to save a few watt's of power consumption and heat. Of course they know more then we do and we can only speculate, but it doesn't make sense for Apple to ignore the Conroe for the iMac. Perhaps making it bigger was the plan all along. With the relase of the 17inch EDU iMac, I'm willing to bet the line expands to 23inchs with the Conroe at 2.40 and 20inch with the 2.13 Conroe and remains Yonnah for the EDU iMac which will once again be avaliable to the public.
Cool. Only thing is, don't expect iMac updates until a few more months, maybe October in the run-up to Christmas buying season. So Apple for the next few months can continue to sell iMac Core Duos at the same price (retail and edu) while they continue to pay less and less for the Yonahs in them.
Also, the current 17" and 20" iMac Core Duos won't have to get bigger. The current form factor or something very close to it externally/ internally was able to handle a very hot G5.
Your line up looks interesting: 17"/20" edu iMac Yonahs, 17" 1.86ghz Conroe, 20" 2.13ghz Conroe, 23" 2.40ghz Conroe.
iMac update imminent
Quote:
[i]Cool. Only thing is, don't expect iMac updates until a few more months, maybe October in the run-up to Christmas buying season. So Apple for the next few months can continue to sell iMac Core Duos at the same price (retail and edu) while they continue to pay less and less for the Yonahs in them.
The Mini is a better option for an update close to Christmas, since it is a lower cost unit it is more likely to be given as a gift. The iMac is better for an August/Early September release because it is more likely to be purchased for back to school season by high school and college students. That would also allow a reasonable time between it's release and a possible update in San Francisco next January. This would also be more in line with the order that they were released earlier this year. This would allow for a September/October release of MacBook Pro's and MacBooks with late October release of the Mini in time to get enough press for the Holiday shopping season. Add in to that an updated iPod, a Video device (we can dream can't we?), iTMS announcements and software updates and Apple could easily have enough press releases to keep their name visible through November and that is all they need to do.
Originally posted by gar
Anyway,
iMac update imminent
False alert:
Update: Looks like we got ahead of ourselves. The manual is most likely for iMac for Education. Sorry for any missed heartbeats.
Originally posted by sunilraman
Cool. Only thing is, don't expect iMac updates until a few more months, maybe October in the run-up to Christmas buying season. So Apple for the next few months can continue to sell iMac Core Duos at the same price (retail and edu) while they continue to pay less and less for the Yonahs in them.
Also, the current 17" and 20" iMac Core Duos won't have to get bigger. The current form factor or something very close to it externally/ internally was able to handle a very hot G5.
Your line up looks interesting: 17"/20" edu iMac Yonahs, 17" 1.86ghz Conroe, 20" 2.13ghz Conroe, 23" 2.40ghz Conroe.
I doubt Apple would hold off on updating the iMac for the sole purpose of receiving a higher return off of cheaper, less powerful chips. First, given the loads of press the Core 2 chips have been getting, most people (myself included), would hold off on buying a computer with a chip at the end of its lifecycle. Therefore, the number of iMacs sold would drop. Second, although Apple has always charged a premium for their products, its laptop's components are powerful, and end up being comparably priced to similarly equipped PCs. If Apple does not upgrade to Core 2 chips, while other PC manufacturers do, it will be reflected in benchmarks (which are very easy to do now, with boot camp). Although most customers are happy to pay a premium for Apple, I personally wouldn't want to pay a premium for inferior hardware whose lifecycle has already ended.
Originally posted by pak150
...If Apple does not upgrade to Core 2 chips, while other PC manufacturers do, it will be reflected in benchmarks (which are very easy to do now, with boot camp)...
Not to mention getting SLAMED big time in the press. They will have a "reasonable" window to start using them in their "Flagship" products, but that will only give Apple about 2-4 weeks to announce products using them. The way I see it these "Flagship" products are the Mac Pro, iMac and Mac Book Pro. The others can lag a bit without too much bad press but those three will need to adopt the new chips in a reasonable amount of time.
Originally posted by gar
It seems that people forget that, last january at MWSF06, the Yonah iMac was introduced sporting a 1.83-2.0Ghz processor while the MBP was introduced with a 1.67-1.83Ghz processor.
(Eventually when the MBP shipped it got faster chips, but that's another story)
I doubt the iMac will not use Conroe.
Conroe can be used in a lowcost ($1,499-1,799) Mac Pro and the iMac.
"Criple" the iMac by using Merom is bad for sales and makes the iMac unnecessary more expensive.
People rather pay $100 less, have a more powerfull computer and hear a whisper of a fan.
For the MBP Merom is a very good option.
It will take a while though, before it trickles down to the MacBook and Mac mini.
Merom is plenty fast and the target group is more than willing to make the trade in exchange for something quiet. It also helps Apple out since Merom is drop in compatible with current motherboards. They can wait for the new 965 mobile chipsets and new GPUs from ATI/Nvidia and announce a major update at MWSF. The iMac does not and cannot compete in the same market space as towers from HP and Dell. For that you need a tower like HP and Dell.
Originally posted by BenRoethig
Merom is plenty fast and the target group is more than willing to make the trade in exchange for something quiet. It also helps Apple out since Merom is drop in compatible with current motherboards. They can wait for the new 965 mobile chipsets and new GPUs from ATI/Nvidia and announce a major update at MWSF. The iMac does not and cannot compete in the same market space as towers from HP and Dell. For that you need a tower like HP and Dell.
This is assuming that Apple will want to stay with the current mobo.
I'm not so sure they will want to. The Yonah machines were a way of getting these machines out fast. not much was done to them to make then unfamiliar to the current Mac customer. The true Core 2 Duo chip line is more powerful, and Apple has has more time to work on a redesign.
It's more than possible that they will come out with something more suited to a second generation product than what we've seen so far.
The first quarter is also their biggest selling season. They may want to come out with a killer product line for the holiday buying season. Slight changes might not be what they have in mind.
Originally posted by BenRoethig
Merom is plenty fast and the target group is more than willing to make the trade in exchange for something quiet. It also helps Apple out since Merom is drop in compatible with current motherboards. They can wait for the new 965 mobile chipsets and new GPUs from ATI/Nvidia and announce a major update at MWSF. The iMac does not and cannot compete in the same market space as towers from HP and Dell. For that you need a tower like HP and Dell.
The GM/PM965 will most likely not be available until the release of the Santa Rosa version of the Centrino Platform in April. They have to update the laptops before that.
I will assume that they go with the Conroe in the iMac, even if the motherboard is based on an Intel reference design.
Originally posted by JCG
Not to mention getting SLAMED big time in the press. They will have a "reasonable" window to start using them in their "Flagship" products, but that will only give Apple about 2-4 weeks to announce products using them. The way I see it these "Flagship" products are the Mac Pro, iMac and Mac Book Pro. The others can lag a bit without too much bad press but those three will need to adopt the new chips in a reasonable amount of time.
Exactly. And, like someone else said, the iMac is a prime back-to-school computer. Updating it close to Christmas wouldn't make sense. If it's getting an update it's by the end of August which is when most Universities start. And think about it, sell it as the ultimate dorm option. Add a tv-tuner and it's a computer, dvd player, tv all in one slick and compact design.
Originally posted by BenRoethig
Merom is plenty fast and the target group is more than willing to make the trade in exchange for something quiet.
Dude, speak for yourself. I want Conroe in iMac. The 2.16 ghz in the 17 inch and the 2.4 ghz in the 20 inch.
Exactly. And, like someone else said, the iMac is a prime back-to-school computer. Updating it close to Christmas wouldn't make sense. If it's getting an update it's by the end of August which is when most Universities start. And think about it, sell it as the ultimate dorm option. Add a tv-tuner and it's a computer, dvd player, tv all in one slick and compact design.
I don't understand you guys calling for a back-to-school iMac. The back-to-school edu iMac was just released. It handled the end part of April-May-June quarter and is expected, along with backfilling orders of the MacBook, to be a mainstay for July-Aug-September as well.
This puts *any* iMac update (probably Conroe IMO) in October for Christmas buying, or something fancy schmancy in January Macworld 2007.
The Mini is a better option for an update close to Christmas, since it is a lower cost unit it is more likely to be given as a gift. The iMac is better for an August/Early September release because it is more likely to be purchased for back to school season by high school and college students. That would also allow a reasonable time between it's release and a possible update in San Francisco next January. This would also be more in line with the order that they were released earlier this year. This would allow for a September/October release of MacBook Pro's and MacBooks with late October release of the Mini in time to get enough press for the Holiday shopping season. Add in to that an updated iPod, a Video device (we can dream can't we?), iTMS announcements and software updates and Apple could easily have enough press releases to keep their name visible through November and that is all they need to do.
See my post above
I agree that Sep-Oct-Nov we'd be looking at MacBookPro and MacMini updates. MacBook updates might only round out the late part of the year, Oct-Nov. Since the current model looks solid and is selling strong all through to end of September.
Originally posted by sunilraman
See my post above
I agree that Sep-Oct-Nov we'd be looking at MacBookPro and MacMini updates. MacBook updates might only round out the late part of the year, Oct-Nov. Since the current model looks solid and is selling strong all through to end of September.
Didn't Apple pull the "edu iMac" from its website because it's only available to schools, not for students? See this appleinsider link. The Christmas buying season may be important, but the upcoming third quarter shouldn't be written off. If the rumor mills are true, Apple doesn't release a new iPod, it's going to need strong computer sales in Q3 to keep the analysts happy.