Apple strengthens Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard with new build

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  • Reply 41 of 151
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,455member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chucker


    I'd love to see those "Quartz Extreme libraries"..



    Quartz and Quartz Extreme are the same library from an objective-c standpoint. Do yourself a favor. Open up XCode. Go to help->documentation. Type in Core Image. The first two lines on the first page are....



    Framework\t Library/Frameworks/QuartzCore.framework

    Header file directories\tLibrary/Frameworks/QuartzCore.framework/Headers



    Err this page is probably online too. But this page is similar...



    http://developer.apple.com/documenta...age_intro.html



    You can not use the Core Image classes / library without the Quartz library, which is the same library as Quartz extreme.
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  • Reply 42 of 151
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emig647


    Read the developer docs I posted above. the Quartz classes / objects are parents to core image.



    Um, yeah, duh. We're talking about Quartz Extreme, not Quartz.
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  • Reply 43 of 151
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,455member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chucker


    Um, yeah, duh. We're talking about Quartz Extreme, not Quartz.



    Um yah duh, quartz extreme and quartz are the same framework, just different functions within that framework.
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  • Reply 44 of 151
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emig647


    Quartz and Quartz Extreme are the same library from an objective-c standpoint. Do yourself a favor. Open up XCode. Go to help->documentation. Type in Core Image. The first two lines on the first page are....



    [..]



    You can not use the Core Image classes / library without the Quartz library, which is the same library as Quartz extreme.



    You have a very strange understanding of Quartz Extreme.



    I will just implement a mental filter for your future posts of s=Quartz Extreme=Quartz=g; then they're at least somewhat accurate.



    But in the future, you should really read up a little more on what Quartz Extreme is, how it differs from Quartz, and what it is not.



    And no, there is no such thing as a Quartz Extreme library.
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  • Reply 45 of 151
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kolchak


    I'd rather deal with the Finder any day of the week. What really sucks is Windows Explorer.



    Agreed. Unfortunately though, Windows Explorer being shitter than shit doesn't stop the Finder being shit.
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  • Reply 46 of 151
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,455member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chucker


    And no, there is no such thing as a Quartz Extreme library.



    Quartz Extreme is Quartz with more abilities. It's the same freakin' library! Funny you tell me I need to read up on it, you obviously aren't getting that through your head.

    When I'm the one that has been posting the proof. You have yet to post one article / reference that shows they are different.



    This discussion is over.
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  • Reply 47 of 151
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emig647


    This discussion is over.



    Oh, it is, is it? You need to rewind back to the beginning of the discussion where you claimed that Core Image requires Quartz Extreme. It does not.



    Yes, if you want to use Core Image, you need to use Quartz instead of QuickDraw. The implementation of Core Image means that if the processing isn't possible on the GPU, the CPU will be used instead. In this way, Core Image will work on any Mac running OS X 10.4, regardless of GPU. In other words, it is possible to use Core Image on a Mac that doesn't support Quartz Extreme.



    You need to go and understand the difference between Quartz, Quartz Extreme and Quartz 2D Extreme.
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  • Reply 48 of 151
    crees!crees! Posts: 501member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kolchak


    I'd rather deal with the Finder any day of the week. What really sucks is Windows Explorer. You just have to love the way it doesn't live update available disk space. You have to highlight a folder or file then click back on blank space to update that, and only when you're at the volume's root. Not to mention the way it can't seem to remember my window prefs. I set all windows to detail view but some still come up in other ways. Craptastic.



    Having to "refresh" the window kills me! You save a file to a location but since you're looking at it in Explorer already it doesn't show, that is until you choose view -> refresh. Simply annoying.
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  • Reply 49 of 151
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emig647


    Read the developer docs I posted above. the Quartz classes / objects are parents to core image.



    Yes, Core Image uses Quartz.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emig647


    Quartz Extreme is Quartz with more abilities.



    No, it's not. Quartz Extreme is a bitmap-compositing method used by the Quartz Compositor when a supported GPU is available. Quartz itself is a CPU-bound drawing framework.



    Quote:

    It's the same freakin' library! Funny you tell me I need to read up on it, you obviously aren't getting that through your head.

    When I'm the one that has been posting the proof. You have yet to post one article / reference that shows they are different.



    Quartz and Quartz Extreme are not the "same freakin' library" because they're not the same thing. Quartz is a software-based drawing library, while Quartz Extreme is an extension to WindowServer's compositor for putting together window bitmaps by overlaying them as OpenGL textures. You don't make drawing calls to Quartz Extreme; you make calls to Quartz, and the window you're drawing to is composited by Quartz Extreme.



    Quartz 2D Extreme will hardware-accelerate the drawing functions, but the framework calls will be the same. The drawing operations will simply be handled by the GPU whenever possible instead of the CPU.



    None of this has to do with Core Image other than the fact it makes Quartz/Core Graphics calls like everything else. Image Units are OpenGL shader programs, but Core Image has a CPU fallback mechanism in the event the GPU isn't supported or available. The reason the Dashboard ripple effect doesn't appear on Macs with unsupported GPUs is that Apple disable the effect because it would slow the CPU considerably to render it in software.
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  • Reply 50 of 151
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,455member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H


    Yes, if you want to use Core Image, you need to use Quartz instead of QuickDraw. The implementation of Core Image means that if the processing isn't possible on the GPU, the CPU will be used instead. In this way, Core Image will work on any Mac running OS X 10.4, regardless of GPU. In other words, it is possible to use Core Image on a Mac that doesn't support Quartz Extreme.



    I remember that now... but they are still the same framework, which is what I was trying to prove to chucker. You can't have Quartz Extreme without Quartz. Which is what I was getting at.



    And yah, i was totally wrong about Quartz 2d Extreme.
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  • Reply 51 of 151
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,455member
    Well I guess I was wrong. Let's move on... Sorry to divert the thread.
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  • Reply 52 of 151
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crees!


    Having to "refresh" the window kills me! You save a file to a location but since you're looking at it in Explorer already it doesn't show, that is until you choose view -> refresh. Simply annoying.



    Actually, Windows does refresh the window, but by default it puts the file at the bottom of the list. You have to refresh the window in order for the file to be resorted in the list. I don't know why it can't add the file to the list in the proper place in the list.
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  • Reply 53 of 151
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,455member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JupiterOne


    Actually, Windows does refresh the window, but by default it puts the file at the bottom of the list. You have to refresh the window in order for the file to be resorted in the list. I don't know why it can't add the file to the list in the proper place in the list.



    That is something that drives me nuts with windows. We can compare windows downfalls to os x all day. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be innovating any more... Or fixing things users complain about like they fixed (supposedly) the finder / network hang. My buddy was claiming that if you have over 1500 files in a network folder, and access that folder a 30 second hang will happen sometimes.
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  • Reply 54 of 151
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emig647


    Well I guess I was wrong. Let's move on... Sorry to divert the thread.



    No worries. And kudos to you for sticking your hand up and declaring "my bad".
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  • Reply 55 of 151
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emig647


    You can't have Quartz Extreme without Quartz. Which is what I was getting at.



    Your window still gets composited by Quartz Extreme if you're a QuickDraw or OpenGL application.
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  • Reply 56 of 151
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emig647


    I remember that now... but they are still the same framework, which is what I was trying to prove to chucker.



    But they aren't.



    Anyway.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emig647


    Well I guess I was wrong. Let's move on... Sorry to divert the thread.



    Yes, let's.
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  • Reply 57 of 151
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bcharna


    i forgot... FFTF is something like fuck the finder, but what was it exactly



    also, what do you all think, is a BRAND new finder one of the "Top Secret" features?



    Finder MUST be not repaired but replaced. It gets the job done, but its archaic and slow...



    And just what great creative innovation could you develop for the finder. Oh, my apologies. I didn't realize that you have 10 billion in the bank because of your accomplishments.
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  • Reply 58 of 151
    yamayama Posts: 427member
    Some things which irritate me about Windows explorer:



    Try the following:



    1) Select a bunch of files on the desktop. You'll notice that the files are all duly highlighted to indicate that they are selected.

    2) Select a file which is in an open window. This file is highlighted, as you'd expect. The files on the desktop are no longer highlighted, so you think "fine, those files are no longer selected".

    3) Drill through some more folders in the open window for a while.

    4) By this point I want to drag one of the files on the desktop into my open window, so I click and drag the file in one motion.

    5) Oh! It turns out all of the files on the desktop were selected, even though they all looked unselected and the lot ends up in my open window. Yay!



    Other than that, I constantly get problems with files refusing to auto-arrange themselves even though that's the view I use.



    I delete files and they still show up on screen making me try to delete them again, which gives me wonderful error messages.



    Moving files around in the Start menu requires me to exit the Start menu and click on it again to see the changes. Even though I dragged a file into a specific position it usually ends up at the bottom of which ever directory it resides in.



    The drill-down function of the Windows Explorer wastes a huge amount of horizontal space as soon as I go through more than 3 sub-directories. Also, the expand "+" buttons are ludicrously small and nearly indistinguishable from an un-expanded button when using a resolution higher than 1024x768.



    The close, minimise and maximise buttons are jammed so close together I usually end up maximising a window instead of closing it or vice-versa.



    Windows forget the view settings I applied to them at random. Sure this happens in Mac OS X too, particularly during the 10.1 and 10.2 days, but Windows XP (and 2000) is many times worse in my experience.



    Lack of keyboard shortcuts - there is no keyboard shortcut for creating a new folder (AFAIK), and no way of getting "properties" without using a right-click.



    Speaking of properties, it really irks me that this is usually the only way to make any useful changes in almost all applications. There are usually no direct menu equivalents.



    Completely inconsistent save/open dialogue box windows; some are res-izable, some are not; some have shortcuts to the desktop/my documents/etc, some do not; some remember the last folder you were in, some do not. etc...



    Preferences dialogue boxes which use dozens of tabs - so many that they stack on top of each other. This leads to awesome confusion when you click on a tab on the top row and all the tabs in that row drop to the bottom of the window, shuffling all the other rows around. Then it's time to "guess where the hell that other tab went".



    And the one thing which really sums up the shitty design of the Windows UI has to be the way you edit your TCP/IP settings. As follows:



    1) Start menu -> Network Connections

    2) Right-click on the relevant network you want to configure.

    3) Use the pointlessly tiny little scrollbar to show TCP/IP at the bottom of the list and highlight it.

    4) Choose properties (again!)



    That's about 7 or 8 mouse clicks. I can do the same in Mac OS X in 3 mouse clicks. I should also mention that at this point I'd have about 3 windows open, none of which show up in the task bar.







    Okay, rant over.
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  • Reply 59 of 151
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    Unfortunately though, Windows Explorer being shitter than shit doesn't stop the Finder being shit.



    So everything we use is shit, and we all here know how to do it better?
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  • Reply 60 of 151
    dacloodacloo Posts: 890member
    yama, you are really, really exxagarating on Windows Explorer
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