tmay

spheric said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

thrang said:

avon b7 said:

Cesar Battistini Maziero said:

Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.

I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

I'll set out my stalk. 

IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

Unaware of the commissions. 

Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 

What do you smoke? If you own an iPhone or iPad (for example), and have so for years, you know EXACTLY what you can and cannot do. Your position is not comprehensible.

NO USERS (as a meaningful percentage of installed base) are complaining at all about Apple's approach. I would suspect most desire and appreciate the semi-walled garden approach. I find it reprehensible that governments would force businesses to change its model (short of legitimate antitrust, which I've yet to see Apple commit). 

I personally DO NOT WANT Apple to open critical systems to third parties at all. I deeply appreciate the clear hard divisions the platforms provide.

If you or others don't, you should choose to leave Apple and use Android. That's a free market choice.

If enough people felt like you, the free market forces would compel Apple to make changes. Which is precisely how it should be - NOT government entities making private firms bend. That is horrific if you pause to think about the precedence these intrusions set. Be careful what you wish for.

My whole point is that iPhone users do not know 'EXACTLY' what they can or cannot do.

I even went further and said if they did know, things would be very different. 

Lack of complaining does not mean, in any shape or fashion, that users are aware of the limitations. 

Your personal want (or mine) is irrelevant here. 

Everyone here knows that you do not regularly use an iPhone, sure, your wife does, so it isn't hard to imagine that you are invested in a personal crusade against the iPhone. Everyone here knows that you are as well an ardent Huawei advocate, so maybe you need, to chill the fuck out about the iPhone.

Funny how most Apple iPhone users just want to be left alone to enjoy their "walled garden", without you interlopers.

I have been using iPhones exclusively for 15 years. 

I agree completely with what avon B7 is writing. 

I even agree with him that your, his, or my personal position on what we might prefer is IRRELEVANT. 

Your pathetic attempt at an ad hominem by attacking his surmised preference of technology platform rather than the merits of his argument is NOTED. 


Incidentally, I remember one specific instance of direct harm to consumers, back in 2008: Telekom contracts in Germany did not allow for tethering. An iPhone app hit the App Store that ostensibly did something else (flashlight?), but a hidden screen would allow users to switch on a tethering preference and access the iPhone's internet connection from a tethered laptop. 

Apple killed the app almost immediately and blocked it from their Store, forcing users to pay top dime for USB cellular access points and the associated extortionate data contracts. 

xyzzy-xxx said:

Cesar Battistini Maziero said:

Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.

EU is taking away your freedom by forcing you to install a 3rd party app store? Wow!

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

thrang said:

avon b7 said:

Cesar Battistini Maziero said:

Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.

I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

I'll set out my stalk. 

IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

Unaware of the commissions. 

Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 

What do you smoke? If you own an iPhone or iPad (for example), and have so for years, you know EXACTLY what you can and cannot do. Your position is not comprehensible.

NO USERS (as a meaningful percentage of installed base) are complaining at all about Apple's approach. I would suspect most desire and appreciate the semi-walled garden approach. I find it reprehensible that governments would force businesses to change its model (short of legitimate antitrust, which I've yet to see Apple commit). 

I personally DO NOT WANT Apple to open critical systems to third parties at all. I deeply appreciate the clear hard divisions the platforms provide.

If you or others don't, you should choose to leave Apple and use Android. That's a free market choice.

If enough people felt like you, the free market forces would compel Apple to make changes. Which is precisely how it should be - NOT government entities making private firms bend. That is horrific if you pause to think about the precedence these intrusions set. Be careful what you wish for.

My whole point is that iPhone users do not know 'EXACTLY' what they can or cannot do.

I even went further and said if they did know, things would be very different. 

Lack of complaining does not mean, in any shape or fashion, that users are aware of the limitations. 

Your personal want (or mine) is irrelevant here. 

Everyone here knows that you do not regularly use an iPhone, sure, your wife does, so it isn't hard to imagine that you are invested in a personal crusade against the iPhone. Everyone here knows that you are as well an ardent Huawei advocate, so maybe you need, to chill the fuck out about the iPhone.

Funny how most Apple iPhone users just want to be left alone to enjoy their "walled garden", without you interlopers.

My point doesn't change one iota. This is a general issue, not a user specific case. 

Or do you think that if the EU were to look into a survey they would require iPhone users to carry it out? 

That's nonsense.

As is this:

"Funny how most Apple iPhone users just want to be left alone to enjoy their "walled garden", without you interlopers."

See my initial post! 

avon b7 said:

thrang said:

avon b7 said:

Cesar Battistini Maziero said:

Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.

I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

I'll set out my stalk. 

IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

Unaware of the commissions. 

Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 

What do you smoke? If you own an iPhone or iPad (for example), and have so for years, you know EXACTLY what you can and cannot do. Your position is not comprehensible.

NO USERS (as a meaningful percentage of installed base) are complaining at all about Apple's approach. I would suspect most desire and appreciate the semi-walled garden approach. I find it reprehensible that governments would force businesses to change its model (short of legitimate antitrust, which I've yet to see Apple commit). 

I personally DO NOT WANT Apple to open critical systems to third parties at all. I deeply appreciate the clear hard divisions the platforms provide.

If you or others don't, you should choose to leave Apple and use Android. That's a free market choice.

If enough people felt like you, the free market forces would compel Apple to make changes. Which is precisely how it should be - NOT government entities making private firms bend. That is horrific if you pause to think about the precedence these intrusions set. Be careful what you wish for.

My whole point is that iPhone users do not know 'EXACTLY' what they can or cannot do.

I even went further and said if they did know, things would be very different. 

Lack of complaining does not mean, in any shape or fashion, that users are aware of the limitations. 

Your personal want (or mine) is irrelevant here. 

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

Cesar Battistini Maziero said:

Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.

I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

I'll set out my stalk. 

IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

Unaware of the commissions. 

Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 

For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about. Certainly, the EU is less concerned about security, than Apple is.

Still, thanks for another round of "EU 'splaining". Does anyone here have difficulty understanding why the EU is always on the "back foot" when it comes to competitive technology? Could it be that the EU is a shitty business and investment environment, more concerned about balance between EU states than actual competitiveness?

The question isn't about happiness. 

The question is about knowledge of business practices. 

If those happy users knew even the basics of Apple's control, most would be quite, ehem, unhappy. That's how I see it and I have yet to come across any iOS who is aware of the facts. 

Really? 

"most would be, quite, ehem, unhappy"

Do you have any evidence to support that, or is this just another projection of your personal bias?

Are you being serious? 

Most of this thread contains opinions!

Did you even bother to read what I said at the outset? About a survey and everything?

Why do you think I wrote that? Could evidence actually have something to do with it? 

How about you put some evidence on the table to support your 'bias'?

My "bias" will be easily proven when, after all of this, "most" Apple iPhone users continue as is. The only question is what Apple's actual revenue numbers show.

So, if a survey is actually generated, and it shows that "most" Apple iPhone users are happy with the status quo, will you then bow out, or will you keep arguing that these users need to be "reeducated"?

Was a consumer survey ever done by the EU, or was this always about developers and financial institutions?

So it's clear you didn't even read what I said previously. 

Your bias will not be 'proven' by any stretch of the imagination if users 'continue as is'. 

Read what I said. 

The EU process includes consultation with industry (yes, Apple participated too) and surveys with the general public and people are also free to contribute there opinions but the surveys were not on what we are talking about here: the assumption that people buy iPhones knowing full well the limitations and accepting them in exchange for 'security and privacy'. 

Why do you think I said a specific survey should be carried out? 

So, the EU really doesn't have an understanding about the consumer, nor did they attempt to gain that understanding, which makes sense, because the GMA legislation isn't really about the consumer anyway.

Not at all, and the EU really does understand consumer needs. Is there any other bloc on the planet that is more 'pro consumer' than the EU?

The DMA/DSA are there to level the playing field in the digital age. Please take a brief look at the opening paragraphs of the supporting text to the legislation. 

If the EU is actually consumer centric, then I can see where they would be resistant to investment in technology and industry that we in the U.S. take for granted. 

It's obvious that the EU can't compete in technology, certainly not for the investment necessary, though the Baltic countries do pretty well, but sure, credit for looking after their "consumers", it that is in fact what they are doing. 

I am not convinced that the EU is actually doing that.

Nothing to do with the question at hand.