tmay

ctt_zh said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

paisleydisco said:

Okay. Now go after supermarkets and retail stores that charge 30% and more for products to be placed in store. 

Developers knew the price of admission and now are crying. GTFO. 

Yes. Developers knew the price of admission. We all do. The question is if that constitutes abuse of dominant position. That we can't know until the process is over. 

That "dominate position" was the fertile ground that grew those developers businesses. Now those same developers want to avoid any payments at all to Apple. 

That doesn't really look like a viable synergy, but then again, this is the EU we are talking about, an aging and brittle political and economic structure. I'll probably live long enough to see the EU disintegrate, and then, back to continuous warfare.

Lovely.

The UK isn't in the EU...

The EU won't disintegrate any time soon. And there certainly won't be continuous warfare, despite the deep passion for it in some quarters outside of the EU...  

avon b7 said:

paisleydisco said:

Okay. Now go after supermarkets and retail stores that charge 30% and more for products to be placed in store. 

Developers knew the price of admission and now are crying. GTFO. 

Yes. Developers knew the price of admission. We all do. The question is if that constitutes abuse of dominant position. That we can't know until the process is over. 

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

mknelson said:

avon b7 said:

ssfe11 said:

The problem with everything market related is the lack of patience. As Buffett often said “no one wants get rich slowly”. Lack of patience causes irrational wild stock price fluctuations. Lack of patience causes crazy headlines. “Apple is falling behind in AI!” What the heck does that even mean? How does Wall Street even know lol?. It’s like they are saying last weekend was AI and Apple missed it! AI like internet will take decades to mature. Calm down Wall Street/financial media just relax and have some patience….please. 

You are missing an important point. 

The product isn't the end of the value chain. The consumer is. 

Consumers are impatient and often fickle.

If analysts think consumers will put off purchases or switch to other brands because they believe Apple isn't offering enough value for their needs (be it in hardware, software or price) it will logically have a negative impact on the stock price. 

If Apple weren't currently behind we wouldn't be seeing and endless line of rumours concerning what is supposedly coming. We wouldn't be seeing Apple itself making such a big deal about what is coming. 

No. They would be pushing solutions which already exist. 

The fact that they aren't doing that at all says a lot. 

WWDC will be vital in terms of taking a gulp of air but the most logical scenario is that whatever gets announced won't actually ship until very late this year or next year. 

That's definitely a Yikes! moment if ever there is one. 

What are the odds that they try what they did last year? Deliberately refuse to mention AI and try to sell ML instead. 

Absolutely zero because what is currently shipping from multiple vendors are the kind of solutions that consumers have been convinced they need and it is the consumers that drive sales. 

Beyond that, and something many here simply refuse to acknowledge, there are literally hundreds of AI solutions being shipped across every industry you can think off which will also impact consumers' lives. 

Well, considering most current "AI" is just a form of machine learning - no actual understanding or intelligence in your Large Language Models or Image Generators.

If that were truly the case Apple wouldn't be in the prickly situation it currently is. 

It would be announcing all the things that can be done right now with its current devices and ignoring what other players are offering. 

Like I said, that isn't happening because it is behind current shipping solutions. 

If you want to call it all ML that is fine but reality is right there if we want to see it.

Apple isn't offering equivalent solutions and recently the rumours have tended to lean towards them licencing solutions from others. 

It isn't simply LLM's. It's now tiny LLMs. Multi-modal AI. AI on IoT. AI describing images and video as opposed to just identifying them.

For better or worse there has been an avalanche of progress over the last two years and it's now front and centre while Apple hasn't offered anything similar to the products which are generating all the buzz.

No one doubts that all those shortcomings will be dealt with at WWDC although there is doubt about if they will be dealt with through 'announcements' for future solutions or if they will feel the need to release something for the user base immediately. 

Hardly a "prickly" situation.

What the iPhone 16 customer is assured of, is that the iPhone will have the leading edge hardware in place at iPhone 16's arrival, and at least some AI apps will be available at the time of delivery.

Do you really believe that developers are going to ignore the most profitable App market, in the iPhone? 

Quite prickly actually. 

Apple caught skating to a puckless place. 

Your entire post completely sidesteps what is being said (Apple being behind right now) and points the finger at some unknown future scenario.

That doesn't cut it. We're talking about now, not the future. 

Do you think everyone else will slow down while Apple gets something cooking? 

avon b7 said:

mknelson said:

avon b7 said:

ssfe11 said:

The problem with everything market related is the lack of patience. As Buffett often said “no one wants get rich slowly”. Lack of patience causes irrational wild stock price fluctuations. Lack of patience causes crazy headlines. “Apple is falling behind in AI!” What the heck does that even mean? How does Wall Street even know lol?. It’s like they are saying last weekend was AI and Apple missed it! AI like internet will take decades to mature. Calm down Wall Street/financial media just relax and have some patience….please. 

You are missing an important point. 

The product isn't the end of the value chain. The consumer is. 

Consumers are impatient and often fickle.

If analysts think consumers will put off purchases or switch to other brands because they believe Apple isn't offering enough value for their needs (be it in hardware, software or price) it will logically have a negative impact on the stock price. 

If Apple weren't currently behind we wouldn't be seeing and endless line of rumours concerning what is supposedly coming. We wouldn't be seeing Apple itself making such a big deal about what is coming. 

No. They would be pushing solutions which already exist. 

The fact that they aren't doing that at all says a lot. 

WWDC will be vital in terms of taking a gulp of air but the most logical scenario is that whatever gets announced won't actually ship until very late this year or next year. 

That's definitely a Yikes! moment if ever there is one. 

What are the odds that they try what they did last year? Deliberately refuse to mention AI and try to sell ML instead. 

Absolutely zero because what is currently shipping from multiple vendors are the kind of solutions that consumers have been convinced they need and it is the consumers that drive sales. 

Beyond that, and something many here simply refuse to acknowledge, there are literally hundreds of AI solutions being shipped across every industry you can think off which will also impact consumers' lives. 

Well, considering most current "AI" is just a form of machine learning - no actual understanding or intelligence in your Large Language Models or Image Generators.

If that were truly the case Apple wouldn't be in the prickly situation it currently is. 

It would be announcing all the things that can be done right now with its current devices and ignoring what other players are offering. 

Like I said, that isn't happening because it is behind current shipping solutions. 

If you want to call it all ML that is fine but reality is right there if we want to see it.

Apple isn't offering equivalent solutions and recently the rumours have tended to lean towards them licencing solutions from others. 

It isn't simply LLM's. It's now tiny LLMs. Multi-modal AI. AI on IoT. AI describing images and video as opposed to just identifying them.

For better or worse there has been an avalanche of progress over the last two years and it's now front and centre while Apple hasn't offered anything similar to the products which are generating all the buzz.

No one doubts that all those shortcomings will be dealt with at WWDC although there is doubt about if they will be dealt with through 'announcements' for future solutions or if they will feel the need to release something for the user base immediately. 

cropr said:

rob53 said:

As I've said many times before, people have plenty of choices on what products they want to buy. If you don't like Apple's way of doing things go with an Android platform or demand a company in the EU to build a new platform. Just because Apple's platform is the one many people want to use doesn't mean the EU has any right to tell Apple what to do. If you don't like what Apple is doing, find another platform. It's just like wine. If you don't want to pay for wine made in the EU, then grow your own, which the USA has done. 

As I've said many times before, the current issue is not about users having choice, it is about  the ant-competitive laws that are applicable in the EU.  These laws are one of the cornerstones of EU, going back to the founding of the EU.   The anti-competitve laws are mainly there to protect smaller companies from the power abuse of larger companies.

And the ant-steering rule that Apple was imposing in its App Store guidelines to tthe app developers, is without discussion (even Apple acknowledges it now) a schoolbook example of anti-competitive behaviour.

It remains a big question mark whether the 27% cut rule Apple is using now iso. the anti-steering rule, will not be considered as anti-competitive.

In case you wonder, the EU anti-competitive laws are applied evenly strictly to large EU companies.  AB Inbev, the Belgian brewer who owns Budweiser, got also a huge fine for anti-competitive behaviour.   If Apple want to do business in the EU, it must comply to these EU laws.