tmay

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

Cesar Battistini Maziero said:

Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.

I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

I'll set out my stalk. 

IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

Unaware of the commissions. 

Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 

For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about. Certainly, the EU is less concerned about security, than Apple is.

Still, thanks for another round of "EU 'splaining". Does anyone here have difficulty understanding why the EU is always on the "back foot" when it comes to competitive technology? Could it be that the EU is a shitty business and investment environment, more concerned about balance between EU states than actual competitiveness?

The question isn't about happiness. 

The question is about knowledge of business practices. 

If those happy users knew even the basics of Apple's control, most would be quite, ehem, unhappy. That's how I see it and I have yet to come across any iOS who is aware of the facts. 

Really? 

"most would be, quite, ehem, unhappy"

Do you have any evidence to support that, or is this just another projection of your personal bias?

Are you being serious? 

Most of this thread contains opinions!

Did you even bother to read what I said at the outset? About a survey and everything?

Why do you think I wrote that? Could evidence actually have something to do with it? 

How about you put some evidence on the table to support your 'bias'?

My "bias" will be easily proven when, after all of this, "most" Apple iPhone users continue as is. The only question is what Apple's actual revenue numbers show.

So, if a survey is actually generated, and it shows that "most" Apple iPhone users are happy with the status quo, will you then bow out, or will you keep arguing that these users need to be "reeducated"?

Was a consumer survey ever done by the EU, or was this always about developers and financial institutions?

So it's clear you didn't even read what I said previously. 

Your bias will not be 'proven' by any stretch of the imagination if users 'continue as is'. 

Read what I said. 

The EU process includes consultation with industry (yes, Apple participated too) and surveys with the general public and people are also free to contribute there opinions but the surveys were not on what we are talking about here: the assumption that people buy iPhones knowing full well the limitations and accepting them in exchange for 'security and privacy'. 

Why do you think I said a specific survey should be carried out? 

So, the EU really doesn't have an understanding about the consumer, nor did they attempt to gain that understanding, which makes sense, because the GMA legislation isn't really about the consumer anyway.

Not at all, and the EU really does understand consumer needs. Is there any other bloc on the planet that is more 'pro consumer' than the EU?

The DMA/DSA are there to level the playing field in the digital age. Please take a brief look at the opening paragraphs of the supporting text to the legislation. 

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

Cesar Battistini Maziero said:

Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.

I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

I'll set out my stalk. 

IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

Unaware of the commissions. 

Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 

For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about. Certainly, the EU is less concerned about security, than Apple is.

Still, thanks for another round of "EU 'splaining". Does anyone here have difficulty understanding why the EU is always on the "back foot" when it comes to competitive technology? Could it be that the EU is a shitty business and investment environment, more concerned about balance between EU states than actual competitiveness?

The question isn't about happiness. 

The question is about knowledge of business practices. 

If those happy users knew even the basics of Apple's control, most would be quite, ehem, unhappy. That's how I see it and I have yet to come across any iOS who is aware of the facts. 

Really? 

"most would be, quite, ehem, unhappy"

Do you have any evidence to support that, or is this just another projection of your personal bias?

Are you being serious? 

Most of this thread contains opinions!

Did you even bother to read what I said at the outset? About a survey and everything?

Why do you think I wrote that? Could evidence actually have something to do with it? 

How about you put some evidence on the table to support your 'bias'?

My "bias" will be easily proven when, after all of this, "most" Apple iPhone users continue as is. The only question is what Apple's actual revenue numbers show.

So, if a survey is actually generated, and it shows that "most" Apple iPhone users are happy with the status quo, will you then bow out, or will you keep arguing that these users need to be "reeducated"?

Was a consumer survey ever done by the EU, or was this always about developers and financial institutions?

So it's clear you didn't even read what I said previously. 

Your bias will not be 'proven' by any stretch of the imagination if users 'continue as is'. 

Read what I said. 

The EU process includes consultation with industry (yes, Apple participated too) and surveys with the general public and people are also free to contribute there opinions but the surveys were not on what we are talking about here: the assumption that people buy iPhones knowing full well the limitations and accepting them in exchange for 'security and privacy'. 

Why do you think I said a specific survey should be carried out? 

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

Cesar Battistini Maziero said:

Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.

I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

I'll set out my stalk. 

IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

Unaware of the commissions. 

Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 

For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about. Certainly, the EU is less concerned about security, than Apple is.

Still, thanks for another round of "EU 'splaining". Does anyone here have difficulty understanding why the EU is always on the "back foot" when it comes to competitive technology? Could it be that the EU is a shitty business and investment environment, more concerned about balance between EU states than actual competitiveness?

The question isn't about happiness. 

The question is about knowledge of business practices. 

If those happy users knew even the basics of Apple's control, most would be quite, ehem, unhappy. That's how I see it and I have yet to come across any iOS who is aware of the facts. 

Really? 

"most would be, quite, ehem, unhappy"

Do you have any evidence to support that, or is this just another projection of your personal bias?

Are you being serious? 

Most of this thread contains opinions!

Did you even bother to read what I said at the outset? About a survey and everything?

Why do you think I wrote that? Could evidence actually have something to do with it? 

How about you put some evidence on the table to support your 'bias'?

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

Cesar Battistini Maziero said:

Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.

I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

I'll set out my stalk. 

IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

Unaware of the commissions. 

Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 

For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about. Certainly, the EU is less concerned about security, than Apple is.

Still, thanks for another round of "EU 'splaining". Does anyone here have difficulty understanding why the EU is always on the "back foot" when it comes to competitive technology? Could it be that the EU is a shitty business and investment environment, more concerned about balance between EU states than actual competitiveness?

The question isn't about happiness. 

The question is about knowledge of business practices. 

If those happy users knew even the basics of Apple's control, most would be quite, ehem, unhappy. That's how I see it and I have yet to come across any iOS who is aware of the facts. 

VictorMortimer said:

tmay said:

For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about.

Then they won't care when regulations fix it for those of us who do.

The EU cares about security at least as much as Apple does.  They also care about Apple's abuse of their monopoly on iDevice app distribution, and their monopoly on access to the NFC hardware in iDevices.  And despite Apple's LIES, those things are not mutually exclusive.