bb-15

larrystar said:

 I love Apple but I’m tired of them saying the iPhone X is full screen there’s clearly a black  bezel around the phone and that very ugly notch,  then the camera bump really and they want at least $1000 for this 64 gigs it’s time to take a stand and say no.

I don't sense much "love" here.
1. No one is forcing anyone to buy any phone.
2. There is no such thing as a full screen/zero bezel phone.
There is instead a screen to body ratio and the iPhone X does very well with that measurement.
3. You think there is a "very ugly notch".
I think it looks fine. Partly because I understand the reason for it in terms of UI and with keeping the phone more compact.
4. A camera bump is not exclusive to the iPhone X. A bump has been on iPhones for years.    

anantksundaram said:

entropys said:

I must admit he only thing about a bezel that concerns me is the overall size the phone ends up.  So the notch will be  spot of bother until apps are updated to address it, as this instagram example shows.

I think what I will do is get the X as soon as I can, then if I don't like it return it for an 8 plus.

The notch does look intrusive. 

The notch does not look intrusive to me. 
Since 1982 with the Lisa, Apple UI design has had a top menu/information bar on the home screen/page and in most software.
That upper menu/information bar continued all the way to the current iOS. I'm looking at it now on my iPad. 
* What the iPhone X does is split the information bar to the top corners.
- Then iPhone X takes the middle area of the information bar (which would be used for showing the time) and put the front facing modules in that space.
* Result with the iPhone X? Top information bar + front facing modules in the same space.
As with current iOS, software usually would be below the top information bar. This is not changed with iPhone X.
- The only serious complaint imo would be with full screen video. But with the iPhone X, 16:9 video can be shown with black bars side to side which leaves out the top information bar/front module area.

* So, I see no problem with the iPhone X UI.
- What I do see is a large screen phone in a very compact design.
- My next iPhone will have this X front design simply because it is efficient; it's physically a bit bigger than an iPhone 6/7/8 with a much larger screen. 

gatorguy said:

bb-15 said:

gatorguy said:

radarthekat said:

There is no disconnect.  Tim Cook did not say Apple enables people’s right to free speech in contradiction to the laws of the countries in which those people live.  

On another point, if Apple never had those VPN apps in its Chinese App Store, would the senators be suggesting Apple should upload some, in contradiction to the laws of China?   

Of course Apple shouldn't intentionally contravene Chinese laws, but I think you and a few others here are confused about this in the first place. VPN apps in China are not illegal AFAICT. The Chinese government also denies ordering any companies to block them, and that includes even state-owned telecoms. That does not mean that China did not strongly suggest it.

So while Mr. Cook properly says Apple follows the law in countries where they operate he did not say (AFAIK) that the VPN apps were removed as mandated by Chinese law. I think you and the others are simply making that connection because of the way Mr. Cook stated it. And while there is a temporary regulation (expires within a few months) that requires VPN apps be licensed Mr Cook did not go so far as to say all the VPN apps that were removed were strictly for that reason. 

In any event VPN apps are not illegal in China. 

But VPNs are being banned in China effective February.
From Bloomberg 7/11/17; 

"China is cracking down on virtual private networks, targeting the most popular way to access websites based outside the country and avoid restrictions. The government ordered the nation’s three state-run phone carriers to enforce a ban on VPNs for individuals and require companies operating on the mainland to register their use of leased web-access lines, people familiar with the matter have said. The new rules will go into effect by February."

* It makes sense that Apple's actions are in response to the upcoming ban by the Chinese government.  

The very next day the Chinese Ministry involved said they had made no such order. Bloomberg was simply wrong according to them. https://torrentfreak.com/china-denies-user-vpn-crackdown-blames-false-foreign-media-reports-170713/

Let me explain;
First, you claim that the Chinese government is always a reliable source of information. That can be questioned.
Second, you are not understanding that the statement by the Chinese government in July does not change the situation in China where VPNs are bing banned. 
I previously quoted from an article published in August, 8/4/17, by Wired titled; "The Attack On Global Privacy Leaves Few Places To Turn".
Is Wired also wrong and only the Chinese government is right? I don't think so. 

Here is another article from September 11, 2017 from ZDNet titled; "GlobalWebIndex has reported that China's VPN crackdown is affecting entrepreneurs, scientists and students".

From that article;

"At the beginning of last year, China upgraded its Great Firewall and began cracking down on the use of VPNs, aimed at fostering the "healthy development" of the internet in China, according to the local government...

In July this year, Apple pulled VPN apps from the App Store in China to comply with the government. The same month, the Chinese government ordered state-owned internet service providers, including China Mobile, China Unicom, and China Telecom, to completely block access to VPNs by February 2018."

* Are Bloomberg, Wired and ZDNet completely wrong? And only the Chinese government should be trusted on this issue?
I don't think so.
The Chinese government may say that they are licensing VPNs but how that is being implemented includes widespread bans. 

gatorguy said:

bb-15 said:

gatorguy said:

radarthekat said:

There is no disconnect.  Tim Cook did not say Apple enables people’s right to free speech in contradiction to the laws of the countries in which those people live.  

On another point, if Apple never had those VPN apps in its Chinese App Store, would the senators be suggesting Apple should upload some, in contradiction to the laws of China?   

Of course Apple shouldn't intentionally contravene Chinese laws, but I think you and a few others here are confused about this in the first place. VPN apps in China are not illegal AFAICT. The Chinese government also denies ordering any companies to block them, and that includes even state-owned telecoms. That does not mean that China did not strongly suggest it.

So while Mr. Cook properly says Apple follows the law in countries where they operate he did not say (AFAIK) that the VPN apps were removed as mandated by Chinese law. I think you and the others are simply making that connection because of the way Mr. Cook stated it. And while there is a temporary regulation (expires within a few months) that requires VPN apps be licensed Mr Cook did not go so far as to say all the VPN apps that were removed were strictly for that reason. 

In any event VPN apps are not illegal in China. 

But VPNs are being banned in China effective February.
From Bloomberg 7/11/17; 

"China is cracking down on virtual private networks, targeting the most popular way to access websites based outside the country and avoid restrictions. The government ordered the nation’s three state-run phone carriers to enforce a ban on VPNs for individuals and require companies operating on the mainland to register their use of leased web-access lines, people familiar with the matter have said. The new rules will go into effect by February."

* It makes sense that Apple's actions are in response to the upcoming ban by the Chinese government.  
(There is a link in the above quote to a 7/10/17 Bloomberg article on this topic.)

...and the very next day the Chinese denied they had ordered any such thing and Bloomberg was wrong. 
https://torrentfreak.com/china-denies-user-vpn-crackdown-blames-false-foreign-media-reports-170713/

Here is another quote on the topic this time from Wired dated 8/4/11 which again states that Chinese government action is the cause of the VPN ban. 

"China asked telecom companies to start blocking user access to VPNs that didn't pass government muster by next February...

Apple complied with a Chinese government order to remove VPNs from its Chinese iOS AppStore, and the company that runs Amazon's cloud services in China this week said it would no longer support VPN use. Even hotels around China that offered VPN services to foreign visitors are largely curtailing the practice."

* Your premise seems to be that the Chinese government is always truthful. I don't agree with that.
Are these tech articles completely misinformed? Where is the evidence of that besides what the Chinese government has said. 
Also, why would Apple and Amazon be doing this re: VPN unless it was due to government action. 

gatorguy said:

radarthekat said:

There is no disconnect.  Tim Cook did not say Apple enables people’s right to free speech in contradiction to the laws of the countries in which those people live.  

On another point, if Apple never had those VPN apps in its Chinese App Store, would the senators be suggesting Apple should upload some, in contradiction to the laws of China?   

Of course Apple shouldn't intentionally contravene Chinese laws, but I think you and a few others here are confused about this in the first place. VPN apps in China are not illegal AFAICT. The Chinese government also denies ordering any companies to block them, and that includes even state-owned telecoms. That does not mean that China did not strongly suggest it.

So while Mr. Cook properly says Apple follows the law in countries where they operate he did not say (AFAIK) that the VPN apps were removed as mandated by Chinese law. I think you and the others are simply making that connection because of the way Mr. Cook stated it. And while there is a temporary regulation (expires within a few months) that requires VPN apps be licensed Mr Cook did not go so far as to say all the VPN apps that were removed were strictly for that reason. 

In any event VPN apps are not illegal in China. 

But VPNs are being banned in China effective February.
From Bloomberg 7/11/17; 

"China is cracking down on virtual private networks, targeting the most popular way to access websites based outside the country and avoid restrictions. The government ordered the nation’s three state-run phone carriers to enforce a ban on VPNs for individuals and require companies operating on the mainland to register their use of leased web-access lines, people familiar with the matter have said. The new rules will go into effect by February."

* It makes sense that Apple's actions are in response to the upcoming ban by the Chinese government.  
(There is a link in the above quote to a 7/10/17 Bloomberg article on this topic.)