cgWerks

I'm usually not big on lawsuits, but I hope Apple gets their clocks-cleaned on this one. They need to learn an important lesson! (Plus, hopefully this goes international so I can be part of the suit.)

AppleInsider said:
While most public complaints were anecdotal, research by AppleInsider in 2018 collecting data on first-year hardware failures for the MacBook Pro found the butterfly keyboard failed twice as often as previous models. 

Yeah, sorry, but that research is faulty. Maybe a lot of people hadn't brought them in for repair at that point.

When about EVERYONE we know that owns one of these has problems, it's probably just a tad bit more than 2x the previous design (where I'm sure they failed, but I never ran into one or knew anyone). Including our own, people I know, and podcasts I listen to, that's like 20+ bad ones, some replaced more than once. Yes, anecdotal, but the problems aren't THAT clustered. And about everyone I've ever talked to about it says nearly the same thing about their circle of connections.

I think it would be more accurate to say... some small percentage haven't failed, yet.

AppleInsider said:
Replacing the faulty keyboards with another using the same design was also considered by the plaintiffs to be a bad idea, as it had the potential for the same issues to resurface at a later time. 

Yes, because it is just a matter of time until it fails AGAIN. Maybe that can buy enough time to last the useful timeframe of the product if one is careful, but I don't think that is reasonable. IMO, either a solid class-action, or Apple could just extend the 4-years to lifetime.

nicholfd said:
And you plug it into your 6" USB-C -> USB-A adapter, or your TB 3/4 dock that has many USB-A ports.

That you always keep in your pocket, just for such occasions? The point isn't that it can't be done, but the inconvenience, especially on laptops.

nicholfd said:
WTF are you talking about.  I have 2 x TB3 docks that serve more connections than you mention.  One is 3-4 years old.  Cables - Buy the one you need with all the connectors on it.  Might cost you $20-$30.

Wow, 2x TB3 docks and some cables for $20-30? Amazing.
Yeah, I have all the ports I need as well on my mini and Blackmagic eGPU. It cost a bit more than $30, though, and I'm not sure how it is prettier than just having ports on a machine.

The point is, though, that if you did have, say 5 or 6 peripherals all with USB-C, what would you plug them into? There are no USB-C hubs that I'm aware of. All the existing 'hubs' are really docks that convert USB-C to a bunch of other ports... *maybe* w/ 2 USB-C.

nicholfd said:
TB is on all new/current Macs - what's your question?

Nope - < $50.  Nope - it generally just works (no issues here with several USB-C hubs).  Nope - no drivers for ANY TB3 or USB-C hubs/adapters. I have.

What's your next complaint?

Sorry, I should have said support for the kinds of things like eGPUs (not the ports themselves). Apple hasn't been clear about that.
USB-C hubs works well (generally) for USB devices. They can be flaky for Ethernet especially and video. The one we just bought for my son's MBP requires a driver for Ethernet.

nicholfd said:
Sure there are - you just haven't looked.  I have a 10-port hub from Amazon:  Powered USB Hub - ACASIS 10 Ports.  The USB cable is external, and for $6 I purchased a USB-C -> USB3-B cable.  And there are TB3/4 hubs (which include USB-C):  OWC THUNDERBOLT HUB.

Guess this was your next complaint because you refused to look (shows your ignorance.)

Looks like USB-A to me. How is that useful to you have you have all USB-C?
The OWC one seems on track, when did that get released (for the first time ever? Pre-order?)? Still, that's kind of a limited number of ports.

Excellent review, Mike! I sure do hope Apple does support these in the future. The whole TB and eGPU idea is one of the best things the industry has done for a long, long time. It creates a lot of flexibility. Apple really needs to be more forthcoming about their direction with this stuff. They jumped into it, and then kind of just fizzled, leaving us all hanging. Hopefully Sonnet knows something we don't!

This looks nice, and it is nice that it keeps more quiet than a MBP, though a MBP isn't exactly quiet. If one needs quiet, maybe look for a Blackmagic eGPU Pro on Ebay, or a Blackmagic eGPU (which is RX580) that I think is still sold new, though less performance. My Blackmagic eGPU runs at 18 dB, btw.

re: BootCamp - Well, support has always been a bit spotty. Blackmagic said mine didn't work under Windows/Bootcamp, but I got it going after a LOT of messing around with it. That said, I heard newer versions of windows might have broke that again (I was on 1809, when I got it going... and some amount of updates still worked)?  But, do some reading on the egpu.io forums if you're technically competent, as what the manufacturer says might be more aimed at the average consumer than the realm of possibility. It isn't plug-n-play and never was! I'm also not sure I'd put much future stock into BootCamp though. But, running them via MacOS I sure hope happens.\

mcdave said:

Pucks like this aren’t the future of graphics for Macs.

What is the future of Mac graphics, then? Inquiring minds want to know!

Fidonet127 said:
My personal experience with the ASi laptop is despite all the USB-A devices and cables we have, we rarely use any cable except for the one for power.

david808 said:

... The only time I've used a USB A anything in the last two years has been to charge my iPhone. ... USB C is the future, and the longer that we hang onto old tech, the longer it will continue to get made. Getting rid of the USB A port is a change, but Apple getting rid of it pushes the industry forward in a good way.

Well, and then there are people like me... I've got a software dongle (USB-A), a little audio interface (USB-A), a mic (USB-A), a scanner which I don't use much, but (USB-A), some external drives (USB-A, one USB-C). I also run HDMI and Ethernet, which would suck if I had to depend on a dongle/dock for that (luckily I have a Mac mini/eGPU which has those ports).

But, the bigger problem is if they were all USB-C, how would I even plug them all in? There are no USB-C hubs. I suppose there are some technical reasons, but it's probably mostly lack of demand.... because so few peripherals are USB-C!

For my new iPhone 12 mini, I took the USB-C cable it came with so I now hook my devices to my computer with it, as it was useless for charging. I don't have any USB-C power bricks (which Apple seemed to assume I would).

As mentioned earlier, sure I can buy docks, adapters, and dongles. I've spent over $200 on them in the last year alone ($200 I wouldn't have had to spend with previous generation Apple gear). They've basically pushed off the irritations and costs associated with THEIR push to the future, onto me. Thanks, Apple!

I'm an early tech adopter. I always have been. I've paid to be bleeding edge. But, usually there was something in it for me. I've yet to really see what that is with USB-C. It's not so much that it is bad (it is confusing), but that it would be nice if some reasonable percentage of the world were using something before it was declared the new 'standard' and everything else (widely in use) the 'legacy.'

commentzilla said:

I remember when Apple went was the first to go all USB-A and everyone bitched and moaned. It was obviously the right move then, just as going USB-C is now. The difference is that USB-C is the port that does it all.

Except that it didn't. It went all-USB-A instead of things like ADB... in other words, the serial component bus. So, yes, we had to have adapters for keyboards/mice, and maybe a few peripherals (like a software dongle key, etc.). But, we still had video ports, Ethernet ports, etc. and they all worked pretty well.

Also, I lived though that, and can't remember complaining (maybe I did?). But, it wasn't nearly the pain this transition is (assuming it actually happens... and does so in under a decade... we're already half-way).

What I do remember was the Duo Dock era that promised one connection for everything.... for as long as that lated. This is starting to feel more like that. And, is Apple even supporting the the TB future anymore? Is my eGPU a paperweight? Inquiring minds would like to know!

mattinoz said:
At least this year USB-c hubs insides displays are becoming common so one USB-c connection to Laptop or small footprint machine gets you, Ethernet, SD cards, USB-a for keyboards and minor/legacy accessories. 

Yes, so you can now get a dock with most fo what you need in terms of ports for $100-200, I guess. You have to be careful about quality if you need your Ethernet and video to work correctly. You'll probably need drivers (so future usefulness?).

<sarcasm> It really is an favor and convenience Apple is providing to have to buy additional gear that might work. </sarcasm>

I'll be convinced about the transition when I can buy all my peripherals in USB-C/TB form to begin with, and actual hubs exist into which I can plug several USB-C cables which all these peripherals come with (and the plug on the peripheral end is USB-C as well, instead of some absolutely-completely-horrrible connector with a USB-C on the other end).

It will be great if the USB-C/TB dream happens some day (assuming we're not heading into some new 'standard' before then), and they get all the cable confusion worked out, etc. But, we're currently not even at the infancy point in that transition yet, 5+ years into it. It's mostly just been an inconvenience, expense, and a LOT of pretending we're futuristic.