cgWerks

"That prediction came with one caveat: a positive public reception."

So, our only hope rests on a very loud negative public reception?

tht said:
What is the advantage to the end user? Not the advantage to Apple, but how would it benefit the end user and much benefit is needed to get users to switch?

I think it would only have to benefit Apple for them to do it. Exhibit A: headphone jack

robjn said:

I doubt it.
Surely, cellular connectivity would heavily impact the battery. 
...
I believe the Watch should be repositioned to replace the iPod.
...
Now you have a device that non-Apple iPhone owners can use. It is a stepping stone into the Apple ecosystem. With an iPhone it becomes even more powerful.

That's what I'm thinking too. Maybe for *very* limited data in short spurts. I could just be quite behind in my knowledge of such things, but I just can't see how it's even possible to stuff enough battery in there to do much more than that. You run into physics at some point.

The problem with it replacing the iPod, to me, is the lack of a 3.5mm jack, but I seem to be among only a few that care anymore?

For an Apple Watch to be useful for me, it kind of has to get to this point though. Unless it can *replace* the phone for a certain set of things, it's just a fancy accessory (I don't need, or even really want).

saarek said:
For me it is situations like this that really stop the watch being of true value outside of a fitness device.

And as I've noted before (to much controversy), it isn't really that great for fitness either, aside from a few specific medical verticals.

flashfan207 said:
Many who dismissed the Apple Watch as an expensive iPhone accessory would certainly give it a second look, for sure. 

Yes, if it gets this, and it goes far enough, I'll eat some of my words on it. (Though I did point out that if it ever got to this point, it *might* gain my interest.)

jbdragon said:
I guess with Cell service, you can jog and stream music to it? It's a RUMOR, so we'll see what happens.

I don't think there will be much music streaming (I suppose I could be wrong). But, being able to *just* have the Watch and still have emergency kinds of contact or some basic data (texts, a shopping list, etc.) would make it useful. Also, it needs enough storage to do things like hold some music, podcasts, maps, etc. as you're not going to have enough battery to pull down that kind of stuff.

chasm said:

He's a human rights advocate. He naturally aligns with at least one group of the oppressed, but he has repeatedly spoken out on behalf of oppressed groups he is not a member of, and human/civil rights generally. Human rights advocates are naturally going to focus on groups that are suffering oppression, but in fact they are arguing for equality, justice, and civil rights for all people. I would not call "humans" a tiny and "insignificant" percentage of the population: I would call that "all of" the population.

...

If Apple "owes" anyone, it's their shareholders. They owe it to them (or at least the shareholders believe this) to keep growing, keep selling, keep designing things the public is fascinated by and keep positioning Apple as a "premium brand" ...

Well, aside from the fact that he's adding funding (if we're talking about the same thing) to an insanely-well-funded advocacy group who are tending to actually oppress other's human rights who might be in disagreement with them, over what hasn't even been adequately argued to be a human right in the first place... but I digress.

I think the point was that principals are more important than sheer numbers. While a company always owes their shareholders, they generally get more return for their shareholders by focusing on making the best stuff and user-experience. That is what got Apple to where the are now, not maximizing shareholder return!

The reason some of us are critical of Apple now, is that we believe Apple is focusing on numbers and market-segments to the exclusion of some of their core principals of the past. We're worried they are going to chase fashion rather than fascination and become a trend rather than a premium brand. Or, they'll lose the brand identity of 'think different' and 'creatives and innovators' chasing after the Kardashians. And, should they succeed, one day they'll cease to be the flavor-of-the-month and suddenly their share-holders won't be so thrilled anymore.

spheric said:

Apple has never in its history sold a 13" laptop with a quad-core processor, ever. (Intel has never made a quad-core which would fit within the thermal envelope of Apple's 13" models - traditionally <30W, IIRC. They probably will at some point next year for the first time ever, according to their roadmap.)

All 15" models have been entirely quad-core for many years now. 

The keyboard on the current MacBooks Pro is the best I've ever used - except *maybe* the old ADB Extended Keyboard (I - for some reason I could never share the excitement over the EK II; it always seemed a tad rubbery to me) that I used from '89 to '95

My bad on lack of clarity. I didn't mean the 13" MBP specifically, though I didn't realize there was never a 4 core option (but, I guess the 13" is newer and I'm used to 15" MBPs from my past). I was thinking of the whole line-up though, iMacs, minis, etc.

I'm glad to hear that about the keyboard. As I said, I might get used to it and love it. I'm more concerned about all the reports of quality issues. I've used Apple laptops since my first PowerBook 100 and never had an issue with keyboards.

******

BTW, is there a multi-quote across pages aside from going into 'code' mode and copy/paste?

Mike Wuerthele said:

But -- one more time -- We are not Apple's target market anymore, and they owe us nothing. 

I'm not sure I completely agree about what they do or don't owe their long-term loyal customers. I guess it depends on whether you see business as cold numbers, or as a relationship.

What I do know is that it's really hard to boil a large operation down to pie-charts and spread-sheets. I'm sure on paper, it looks like Ford's efforts put into racing or making a GT40 isn't nearly as profitable as pouring steam into the F150 trucks. I think if Apple leaves the creative pro users behind - because pie-charts - there will be a much bigger price to pay in the long-run. I'm hoping their recent efforts are due to their realization of this, and not just blowing smoke!

But, back to the laptops....

I'm mixed over this new model. In some ways, it's the machine I've been waiting for for so long. With TB3 and an eGPU, it could pretty easily be the one-machine dream solution I've always wanted. However, there are several problems with it, IMO.

First, while I haven't spent a lot of time with the keyboard, it really seems like a weak point. I think I could get used to it, but I've heard a lot of people complaining about it's durability. That's a huge problem on such an expensive machine that I'd plan to use for many years. And, I've never had that kind of problem with Apple laptops of the past.

I guess I'll take your word for the palm-rejection, but in stores, I *HATE* the huge track-pad. Again, if it works reasonably well, I suppose I can get used to it?

I'm not that happy Apple has moved all but the very top models of each line to only dual-core CPUs. You used to get quad-core, even in the base models several years ago. I don't think you can even get a quad-core in the 13" at all. While I'm happy to hear it's better in terms of heat, I do worry it might be underpowered in the CPU department.

Across the Apple line, storage has introduced some problems, at least with the one-computer plan. Because the SSDs are now so small (as much as I love the performance), Dropbox has become almost useless. You pretty much have to have a separate 'server' machine where the Dropbox data is stored and synced... and then carefully manage what gets excluded to these tiny-storage devices.

Hopefully Kaby Lake fixes the energy drain issues of the 2016 with USB or external devices connected? (I didn't see that in the article, unless I missed it.)

Also, Mike, you made a comment on the podcast about the speed of the ports on the 13" and eGPUs. Could you elaborate on that a bit more?

I had really hoped that once we got to TB3, I might be able to just go laptop only with a dock and phone. What I hadn't counted on is Apple compromising much of what I loved about previous MacBook Pros (though they were never perfect, especially in heat dissipation!). Now, I might have to re-think things and move back more towards a desktop / portable combo again (but, iPad or MacBook?). Or, maybe 'server', laptop, (iPad?), phone.