An 800 MHz G4 is not as slow as a sub $600 PC under any circumstance. Jesus, some people actually are fooled by the megahertz myth. Think of it as a clock. The G4 does more per tick than a shitty Pentium 3 800 Mhz PC, with no expandability.
The Powermacs are now priced very reasonably and have good specs (not great).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ok, "mac". If you want objective information, maybe neither Apple nor Intel are the right place to look at. For now, I have the impression that you do not really know what you are talking about. Especially as you get a Celeron at 1.3 GHz for $600.
For true numbers on performance:
- compare the fastest Mac video encoder with the fastest one for PC (i.e. optimized for SSE)
- compare PovRay on Linux (same source on both platforms)
- compare Java benchmarks on both platforms (dito)
- compare the numbers of audio-tracks and effects Emagic Logic can handle
- compare the number of instruments Propellerheads Reason can handle simutaneously
Ok Philbot, go get your bathroom buddy, and have him write you some more notes as to what's going on here.
I'm serious!
The March 31 expiration date on the promo leads me to believe you may have been right about shipping time... <hr></blockquote>
The problem I have is although I know the G5 is ready for mass production, I have no information about shipping dates except for my friends' gut feeling.
This is because he is involved in hardware development , and specs change overnight based on financial and commercial reasons.
I feel bad about getting all your hopes up about the G5 being announced <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" /> but at least the Apollos are here (2 weeks late) and shipping immediately (this means Apple have been stockpiling them for the last two weeks!). Speaking of Apollos - theres another example of specs changing overnight. They were all supposed to ship with DP, but to ensure enough chips were available for the iMac and to keep to a price point, that was dropped except for the 1Ghz model. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
Steves decision to include the Superdrive is against the advice of many Apple advisors. Basically we are getting the Superdrive instead of an extra processor because Steve sees it as making the Mac 'different' from PCs. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
The price point of the new PMs is also very important. Bringing the top model down to $3000 leaves the field open for the G5 in March. This may be a full lineup of three models, or it may be just one or two. But I'm speculating that it will come in at $3500 for a dual 800 G5 or a single 1.2Ghz G5. I know that 800, 1000 and 1200 mhz chips have all been tested over the last 5 months.
The Apollo chips will be bumped up in a few months, up to 1.4ghz, with the iMac bumped to 800,800,933.
This might sound like it's too soon for a speed bump on the iMac, buth Apple hope to have sold 500,000 by then!
They were all supposed to ship with DP, but to ensure enough chips were available for the iMac and to keep to a price point, that was dropped except for the 1Ghz model. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
</strong><hr></blockquote>
This implies that the iMac contains the 7455 (Apollo), as the 7445 has just begun sampling*. This means that Apple wastes the expensive 7455 on a machine that needs a cool chip and has no L3 cache. This is both technologically (heat dissipation) and economically (7451 is cheaper & available) unwise. Can you confirm that the new iMac uses Apollos?
[quote] Speaking of Apollos - theres another example of specs changing overnight. They were all supposed to ship with DP, but to ensure enough chips were available for the iMac and to keep to a price point, that was dropped except for the 1Ghz model. <hr></blockquote>
This doesn't make any sense at all. The iMac tops out at 800 MHz, so even if iMacs had the 7455 G4s, there would only be concern about the low end tower at 800 MHz. Apple could still have made the 933 MHz model DP (except for the price, of course).
[quote]Steves decision to include the Superdrive is against the advice of many Apple advisors. Basically we are getting the Superdrive instead of an extra processor because Steve sees it as making the Mac 'different' from PCs. <hr></blockquote>
[quote]The price point of the new PMs is also very important. Bringing the top model down to $3000 leaves the field open for the G5 in March. This may be a full lineup of three models, or it may be just one or two. But I'm speculating that it will come in at $3500 for a dual 800 G5 or a single 1.2Ghz G5. I know that 800, 1000 and 1200 mhz chips have all been tested over the last 5 months. <hr></blockquote>
Wait a sec, we have dual 1 GHz G4s, and you are saying a dual 800 MHz G5? No way in hell. A 1.2 GHz G5 is believable, but definitely at the low end for the G5 chip. If Apple is going to be introducing G5s at 0.8-1.2 GHz, then that is incredibly LAME, and I don't believe it. I think the low speed G5s are aimed at the embedded processor market, and the faster one's are going to be used in Macs. All other rumors have suggested that the G5s are clocking reliably to at least 1.4 GHz.
[quote]The Apollo chips will be bumped up in a few months, up to 1.4ghz, with the iMac bumped to 800,800,933. <hr></blockquote>
Oh, so now the G5 clocks up to 1.2 GHz, but the G4 clocks to 1.4 GHz? Yeah, right, Moto spent 2 years on the G5 so it would scale worse than the G4. Sorry buddy, go make something else up. Your specs ring hollow.
Comments
No! I didn't ask for THAT!!!
<strong>
An 800 MHz G4 is not as slow as a sub $600 PC under any circumstance. Jesus, some people actually are fooled by the megahertz myth. Think of it as a clock. The G4 does more per tick than a shitty Pentium 3 800 Mhz PC, with no expandability.
The Powermacs are now priced very reasonably and have good specs (not great).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ok, "mac". If you want objective information, maybe neither Apple nor Intel are the right place to look at. For now, I have the impression that you do not really know what you are talking about. Especially as you get a Celeron at 1.3 GHz for $600.
For true numbers on performance:
- compare the fastest Mac video encoder with the fastest one for PC (i.e. optimized for SSE)
- compare PovRay on Linux (same source on both platforms)
- compare Java benchmarks on both platforms (dito)
- compare the numbers of audio-tracks and effects Emagic Logic can handle
- compare the number of instruments Propellerheads Reason can handle simutaneously
- do some calculations with Mathematica
...
And don't blame Jesus for it ...
I'm serious!
The March 31 expiration date on the promo leads me to believe you may have been right about shipping time...
Ok Philbot, go get your bathroom buddy, and have him write you some more notes as to what's going on here.
I'm serious!
The March 31 expiration date on the promo leads me to believe you may have been right about shipping time... <hr></blockquote>
The problem I have is although I know the G5 is ready for mass production, I have no information about shipping dates except for my friends' gut feeling.
This is because he is involved in hardware development , and specs change overnight based on financial and commercial reasons.
I feel bad about getting all your hopes up about the G5 being announced <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" /> but at least the Apollos are here (2 weeks late) and shipping immediately (this means Apple have been stockpiling them for the last two weeks!). Speaking of Apollos - theres another example of specs changing overnight. They were all supposed to ship with DP, but to ensure enough chips were available for the iMac and to keep to a price point, that was dropped except for the 1Ghz model. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
Steves decision to include the Superdrive is against the advice of many Apple advisors. Basically we are getting the Superdrive instead of an extra processor because Steve sees it as making the Mac 'different' from PCs. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
The price point of the new PMs is also very important. Bringing the top model down to $3000 leaves the field open for the G5 in March. This may be a full lineup of three models, or it may be just one or two. But I'm speculating that it will come in at $3500 for a dual 800 G5 or a single 1.2Ghz G5. I know that 800, 1000 and 1200 mhz chips have all been tested over the last 5 months.
The Apollo chips will be bumped up in a few months, up to 1.4ghz, with the iMac bumped to 800,800,933.
This might sound like it's too soon for a speed bump on the iMac, buth Apple hope to have sold 500,000 by then!
<strong>
They were all supposed to ship with DP, but to ensure enough chips were available for the iMac and to keep to a price point, that was dropped except for the 1Ghz model. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
</strong><hr></blockquote>
This implies that the iMac contains the 7455 (Apollo), as the 7445 has just begun sampling*. This means that Apple wastes the expensive 7455 on a machine that needs a cool chip and has no L3 cache. This is both technologically (heat dissipation) and economically (7451 is cheaper & available) unwise. Can you confirm that the new iMac uses Apollos?
*<a href="http://www.siliconstrategies.com/story/OEG20020128S0037"; target="_blank">Appollo-Report by SiliconStrategies</a>
Anyway, the 7445 is a portable variant, which I'm sure will be in the TiBook by April and the iBook by this Fall.
<strong>
.....Can you confirm that the new iMac uses Apollos?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Can you confirm the the new low end PM uses it?
This doesn't make any sense at all. The iMac tops out at 800 MHz, so even if iMacs had the 7455 G4s, there would only be concern about the low end tower at 800 MHz. Apple could still have made the 933 MHz model DP (except for the price, of course).
[quote]Steves decision to include the Superdrive is against the advice of many Apple advisors. Basically we are getting the Superdrive instead of an extra processor because Steve sees it as making the Mac 'different' from PCs. <hr></blockquote>
[quote]The price point of the new PMs is also very important. Bringing the top model down to $3000 leaves the field open for the G5 in March. This may be a full lineup of three models, or it may be just one or two. But I'm speculating that it will come in at $3500 for a dual 800 G5 or a single 1.2Ghz G5. I know that 800, 1000 and 1200 mhz chips have all been tested over the last 5 months. <hr></blockquote>
Wait a sec, we have dual 1 GHz G4s, and you are saying a dual 800 MHz G5? No way in hell. A 1.2 GHz G5 is believable, but definitely at the low end for the G5 chip. If Apple is going to be introducing G5s at 0.8-1.2 GHz, then that is incredibly LAME, and I don't believe it. I think the low speed G5s are aimed at the embedded processor market, and the faster one's are going to be used in Macs. All other rumors have suggested that the G5s are clocking reliably to at least 1.4 GHz.
[quote]The Apollo chips will be bumped up in a few months, up to 1.4ghz, with the iMac bumped to 800,800,933. <hr></blockquote>
Oh, so now the G5 clocks up to 1.2 GHz, but the G4 clocks to 1.4 GHz? Yeah, right, Moto spent 2 years on the G5 so it would scale worse than the G4.
What Apple test and what they actually put into boxes and ship are two different things.
All this talk about prices and processor specs is pure speculation.
Don't dismiss a dual G5 800 till you've seen one run!
Yes, they have tested 1.6Ghz chips but they haven't been reliable.
They will release the most stable chips first, then the faster ones will come later.
Multi processing is the future, and two 800G5s will run OSX better than a single 1.2.
[ 01-30-2002: Message edited by: philbot ]</p>