I wouldn't expect a new enclosure for the G4's. The Quicksilver look is still very young, there hasn't been any enclosure that lasted for such a short time.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
The B&W G3 was around for about the same amount of time.
Anyway, here's one possibility.
Very soon, Apple announces the new Powermac G5, which will be available in late March. Apple gets a ton of preorders, which will make it a lot of money. Because it doesn't ship until March, people don't find out that it's only an Apollo-based machine until it's too late. Then, Apple announces the Powermac G6, and makes it clear that this one has the 8500 in it.
Very soon, Apple announces the new Powermac G5, which will be available in late March. Apple gets a ton of preorders, which will make it a lot of money. Because it doesn't ship until March, people don't find out that it's only an Apollo-based machine until it's too late. Then, Apple announces the Powermac G6, and makes it clear that this one has the 8500 in it.
And people bring a class-action lawsuit against Apple for fraud and false advertising. :cool:
SGI has Alias/Wavefront which has 3D software (including Maya) used in nearly every new Hollywood movie that has any special effects including the movies made by Pixar. This alone is software that Apple should own.
Nope, like suporting another whole platform. FCP is one thing, Maya is a different beast altogether.
[/b]SGI has Numaflex architecture which allows them to build very scalable high end systems. That is, you add additional I/O blocks when you need more I/O. You add additional CPU blocks when you need more processing power. You add additional Graphics adapters when you need more displays.[/b]
OK.
SGI has its own version of Unix (IRIX) that can scale to use over a thousand processors on a single system image. Granted, there aren't tons of applications that need this power, but the ones that do (like simulating weather or rendering a scene in a movie) really need this type of capability.
Irix doesn't offer anything the BSDs don't.
The MIPS processor that SGI uses doesn't nearly match up in power to the PowerPC, but the integration of hardware and software yield a combination that can't be touched by the competition for high end processing (especially on scalability of 3D graphics).
A processor with an even smaller niche!
This sounds like too big a jump in markets to try to handle in a very slow economic environment. Too much money up front, too risky.
Ah, well, sorry to be so dogmatic, but it's the only way to get responses.
<strong>I think its clear - if Steve was introducing a G 5 or a G od next week there would have been more hype. I can't decide which I believe in less :-)
Michael</strong><hr></blockquote>
IIRC, there wasn't much hype surrounding the G4s release in '99. It was a complete surprise.
Something weird the other day. I was talking to a friend who is big on Macs and knows a ton about them, and started talking about the possibilities of new PowerMacs and he said that he had a feeling that the real/actual G5 would be going into the next PowerMacs. What was weird is he said that it wouldn't be called the G5 and that there was another name for the G5. Seemed weird and I don't know what to make of that.
<strong>IIRC, there wasn't much hype surrounding the G4s release in '99. It was a complete surprise.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, but it was announced at Seybold. Are we to believe Apple will announce the G5 tomorrow despite the fact that if there is an "event", no members of the press have been invited?
What nonsense. If there's an announcement tomorrow, it'll be speed bumps and perhaps minor changes.
Well if G5s are released tomorrow I will be very surprised. If Philbot is right then I need to find out what he's smoking and get some of the same stuff.
If the G5s are announced tomorrow but not on sale then why would apple hype it. Think does it make since to hype a product that's not aviable. Apple may tell us the G5s will be announced in march but they will not let us see them untill they are released. It is not the best way to release a great new product but it is better than having your stock fall through the floor because of an amazing 133Mhz upgrade.
Apple can't always wait for a show of some sort to release there products. Sometimes it's just not at a good time.
<strong>Here is a spymac link about the powermac upgrade. Seems to be a fairly intelligent, thought out article.
Check it out...
- Mark</strong><hr></blockquote>
They didn't say anything that adds anything to the conversations already held elsewhere. Furthermore, if the demonstrated lack of grammar skills in any way coincides with insider knowledge we can certainly write the article off as useless.
Although this isn't based on any "real" info, what Philbot is saying makes alot more sense then people are giving credit for.
Why bump the G4s if G5s follow month after?
This is 2-fold:
one, if the G5 is ready, it is going to be a doozy of a costly beast. I would predict something more like $4000 to $5500.
Not the average PC that today's market is used to by no means, but this will sell... it'll sell very well. But supplies will be limited.
two, a glut of G4s. Remember the Reg articles mentioning that Moto was concerned that they were fabbing Apollos, but they could be dumped for G5s? Well, Apple not only has to pressure Moto, but appease them as well. If a G5 is announced but not available for a month or two, and then in limited quantities, speed-bumped G4s will sell just fine. Apple has been pressuring Moto to improve the G4 at the same time they've been pressuring them to get the G5 out.
The lovely, lovely benefit: a distinct product matrix saved Apple from the 90's but maybe it's time to say bye-bye. Keep the line distinct but with wider component range-- the G3 CRT iMac still attracts some buyers, the G4 iMac is where most will flock, the G5 is an expensive piece of luxury or hardcaore ecstacy, the G4 PowerMac finally becomes accessible to the masses (ok, a bigger mass).
Maybe that's not all clear, but my point is people try to interpret Apple's future actions based on past action, but when I look back, it's difficult to perceive patterns that hold (for instance, what happened to UMA? The iMac, PowerBook, etc. happened -- pretty hard to develop a unified motherboard when one machine is shaped like a half a ball or is .5 inches thick, isn't it?) Well, maybe Apple couldn't provide that lowcost tower without bumping the G4 to the middle of the lineup? Apple had to vault the G4 to "Greatest Processor, mysteriously faster than Intel or AMD chipsets," but now they can say, "Yes, the G4's a demon but now it's affordable and highly available... and we've got ourselves a new Demon!"
I think spymac is right. If the G5s are released any time soon it will not be tomorrow but at seybold. If any thing happens tomorrow it will just be a small speed bumb. Philbot, for your sake there better be G5s next week.... Or i'm going to....SQUASH YOU!!!!!!! HAHAHAHHAAHA...ok I'm done. I guess it must be time to take my meds.
Hope springs eternal, but this is pushing it. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
In my opinion, the PowerMacs have to really bump up and fast, because of the hot-in-pursuit iMac. How and when, I have no idea. but 2 weeks after the iMac expo, seems a bit... inopportune.
We shall see. Perhaps philbot has been reading [i]this[/] thread and simply iterating it:
[quote] one, if the G5 is ready, it is going to be a doozy of a costly beast. I would predict something more like $4000 to $5500.
Not the average PC that today's market is used to by no means, but this will sell... it'll sell very well. But supplies will be limited.
two, a glut of G4s. Remember the Reg articles mentioning that Moto was concerned that they were fabbing Apollos, but they could be dumped for G5s? Well, Apple not only has to pressure Moto, but appease them as well. If a G5 is announced but not available for a month or two, and then in limited quantities, speed-bumped G4s will sell just fine. Apple has been pressuring Moto to improve the G4 at the same time they've been pressuring them to get the G5 out.
<hr></blockquote>
1. How do you know the G5 will be so expensive? Where is the evidence for this? On the contrary, I think if the G5 is being developed for the consumer desktop market, then it would be designed with the appropriate cost in mind.
2. There will be no glut of G4 chips, the iMac will use them up fast. Not even a problem worth considering.
<strong>1. How do you know the G5 will be so expensive? Where is the evidence for this? On the contrary, I think if the G5 is being developed for the consumer desktop market, then it would be designed with the appropriate cost in mind.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
If it is even close to the rumoured performance levels then they aren't going to be able to build them fast enough. This means they can choose to jack up the price until the supply situation gets under control. Even if they don't do that the G5 is likely >50 million transistors and on the same process as the Apollo... which virtually guarantees lower yields (and thus higher prices).
<strong> [quote]
2. There will be no glut of G4 chips, the iMac will use them up fast. Not even a problem worth considering.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't forget the faster Ti and iBook machines that will be possible once the Apollo production is in full swing. Apple will be using the G4 for a long time yet... the G5 promises to be quite a monster and won't be portable (or suitable to the iMac enclosure) for some time yet. Heh, funny to say that when there isn't even any proof of its existance... but of course if it doesn't exist then the G4 glut is even less of a problem!
No, but it was announced at Seybold. Are we to believe Apple will announce the G5 tomorrow despite the fact that if there is an "event", no members of the press have been invited?
What nonsense. If there's an announcement tomorrow, it'll be speed bumps and perhaps minor changes.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Could it be that they might have struck another Time-like exclusive deal, and that maybe the lack of press announcements is part of that deal. Hype can come in other ways, it doesn't always mean MacCentral, or whoever, gets an invitation.
Comments
<strong>
I wouldn't expect a new enclosure for the G4's. The Quicksilver look is still very young, there hasn't been any enclosure that lasted for such a short time.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
The B&W G3 was around for about the same amount of time.
Anyway, here's one possibility.
Very soon, Apple announces the new Powermac G5, which will be available in late March. Apple gets a ton of preorders, which will make it a lot of money. Because it doesn't ship until March, people don't find out that it's only an Apollo-based machine until it's too late. Then, Apple announces the Powermac G6, and makes it clear that this one has the 8500 in it.
And people bring a class-action lawsuit against Apple for fraud and false advertising. :cool:
<strong>
Odd that a bible thumper would speak of "evidence".
Odd that she would say something "sucks". Sounds like they are memorizing these books rather than actually reading them.
Nope, like suporting another whole platform. FCP is one thing, Maya is a different beast altogether.
[/b]SGI has Numaflex architecture which allows them to build very scalable high end systems. That is, you add additional I/O blocks when you need more I/O. You add additional CPU blocks when you need more processing power. You add additional Graphics adapters when you need more displays.[/b]
OK.
SGI has its own version of Unix (IRIX) that can scale to use over a thousand processors on a single system image. Granted, there aren't tons of applications that need this power, but the ones that do (like simulating weather or rendering a scene in a movie) really need this type of capability.
Irix doesn't offer anything the BSDs don't.
The MIPS processor that SGI uses doesn't nearly match up in power to the PowerPC, but the integration of hardware and software yield a combination that can't be touched by the competition for high end processing (especially on scalability of 3D graphics).
A processor with an even smaller niche!
This sounds like too big a jump in markets to try to handle in a very slow economic environment. Too much money up front, too risky.
Ah, well, sorry to be so dogmatic, but it's the only way to get responses.
<strong>I think its clear - if Steve was introducing a G 5 or a G od next week there would have been more hype. I can't decide which I believe in less :-)
Michael</strong><hr></blockquote>
IIRC, there wasn't much hype surrounding the G4s release in '99. It was a complete surprise.
The beginning of a new generation of Macs, he said, and the end of the old G* naming scheme.
<strong>IIRC, there wasn't much hype surrounding the G4s release in '99. It was a complete surprise.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, but it was announced at Seybold. Are we to believe Apple will announce the G5 tomorrow despite the fact that if there is an "event", no members of the press have been invited?
What nonsense. If there's an announcement tomorrow, it'll be speed bumps and perhaps minor changes.
I don't really believe it, but hey, this is Moto...
Marcus
(I would love to see an end to the G* series...X1 sounds so much cooler...)
If the G5s are announced tomorrow but not on sale then why would apple hype it. Think does it make since to hype a product that's not aviable. Apple may tell us the G5s will be announced in march but they will not let us see them untill they are released. It is not the best way to release a great new product but it is better than having your stock fall through the floor because of an amazing 133Mhz upgrade.
Apple can't always wait for a show of some sort to release there products. Sometimes it's just not at a good time.
Check it out...
<a href="http://www.spymac.com/html/sage.php"; target="_blank">http://www.spymac.com/html/sage.php</a>;
- Mark
<strong>Here is a spymac link about the powermac upgrade. Seems to be a fairly intelligent, thought out article.
Check it out...
- Mark</strong><hr></blockquote>
They didn't say anything that adds anything to the conversations already held elsewhere. Furthermore, if the demonstrated lack of grammar skills in any way coincides with insider knowledge we can certainly write the article off as useless.
<strong>Here is a spymac link about the powermac upgrade. Seems to be a fairly intelligent, thought out article.
Check it out...
<a href="http://www.spymac.com/html/sage.php"; target="_blank">http://www.spymac.com/html/sage.php</a>;
- Mark</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, I trust spymac sooooooooooo much! <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
That article said nothing, just hedged it bets so that any outcome was possible and plausible
Why bump the G4s if G5s follow month after?
This is 2-fold:
one, if the G5 is ready, it is going to be a doozy of a costly beast. I would predict something more like $4000 to $5500.
Not the average PC that today's market is used to by no means, but this will sell... it'll sell very well. But supplies will be limited.
two, a glut of G4s. Remember the Reg articles mentioning that Moto was concerned that they were fabbing Apollos, but they could be dumped for G5s? Well, Apple not only has to pressure Moto, but appease them as well. If a G5 is announced but not available for a month or two, and then in limited quantities, speed-bumped G4s will sell just fine. Apple has been pressuring Moto to improve the G4 at the same time they've been pressuring them to get the G5 out.
The lovely, lovely benefit: a distinct product matrix saved Apple from the 90's but maybe it's time to say bye-bye. Keep the line distinct but with wider component range-- the G3 CRT iMac still attracts some buyers, the G4 iMac is where most will flock, the G5 is an expensive piece of luxury or hardcaore ecstacy, the G4 PowerMac finally becomes accessible to the masses (ok, a bigger mass).
Maybe that's not all clear, but my point is people try to interpret Apple's future actions based on past action, but when I look back, it's difficult to perceive patterns that hold (for instance, what happened to UMA? The iMac, PowerBook, etc. happened -- pretty hard to develop a unified motherboard when one machine is shaped like a half a ball or is .5 inches thick, isn't it?) Well, maybe Apple couldn't provide that lowcost tower without bumping the G4 to the middle of the lineup? Apple had to vault the G4 to "Greatest Processor, mysteriously faster than Intel or AMD chipsets," but now they can say, "Yes, the G4's a demon but now it's affordable and highly available... and we've got ourselves a new Demon!"
In my opinion, the PowerMacs have to really bump up and fast, because of the hot-in-pursuit iMac. How and when, I have no idea. but 2 weeks after the iMac expo, seems a bit... inopportune.
We shall see. Perhaps philbot has been reading [i]this[/] thread and simply iterating it:
<a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000472&p=2"; target="_blank">Near the top of this page</a>
&
<a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000472&p=4"; target="_blank">Half-way down this page too</a>
I am skeptical, but hoping is much more fun.
Mandricard
AppleOutsider
[ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: Mandricard ]</p>
Not the average PC that today's market is used to by no means, but this will sell... it'll sell very well. But supplies will be limited.
two, a glut of G4s. Remember the Reg articles mentioning that Moto was concerned that they were fabbing Apollos, but they could be dumped for G5s? Well, Apple not only has to pressure Moto, but appease them as well. If a G5 is announced but not available for a month or two, and then in limited quantities, speed-bumped G4s will sell just fine. Apple has been pressuring Moto to improve the G4 at the same time they've been pressuring them to get the G5 out.
<hr></blockquote>
1. How do you know the G5 will be so expensive? Where is the evidence for this? On the contrary, I think if the G5 is being developed for the consumer desktop market, then it would be designed with the appropriate cost in mind.
2. There will be no glut of G4 chips, the iMac will use them up fast. Not even a problem worth considering.
<strong>1. How do you know the G5 will be so expensive? Where is the evidence for this? On the contrary, I think if the G5 is being developed for the consumer desktop market, then it would be designed with the appropriate cost in mind.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
If it is even close to the rumoured performance levels then they aren't going to be able to build them fast enough. This means they can choose to jack up the price until the supply situation gets under control. Even if they don't do that the G5 is likely >50 million transistors and on the same process as the Apollo... which virtually guarantees lower yields (and thus higher prices).
<strong> [quote]
2. There will be no glut of G4 chips, the iMac will use them up fast. Not even a problem worth considering.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't forget the faster Ti and iBook machines that will be possible once the Apollo production is in full swing. Apple will be using the G4 for a long time yet... the G5 promises to be quite a monster and won't be portable (or suitable to the iMac enclosure) for some time yet. Heh, funny to say that when there isn't even any proof of its existance... but of course if it doesn't exist then the G4 glut is even less of a problem!
<strong>
No, but it was announced at Seybold. Are we to believe Apple will announce the G5 tomorrow despite the fact that if there is an "event", no members of the press have been invited?
What nonsense. If there's an announcement tomorrow, it'll be speed bumps and perhaps minor changes.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Could it be that they might have struck another Time-like exclusive deal, and that maybe the lack of press announcements is part of that deal. Hype can come in other ways, it doesn't always mean MacCentral, or whoever, gets an invitation.