[quote] You missed Programmer's point. He said that if the G5 was fabbed on the same process as the Apollo, it would cost more. And it would, because for a given process more transistors require more silicon, which means fewer chips per wafer, which raises the cost.
The solution is to fab bigger chips on smaller processes, and that's what Programmer was worrying about: Whether the G5 would start on a smaller process than the Apollo as planned.
<hr></blockquote>
Well since the G5 doesn't use the same process as the Apollo, this is a moot point...I figured that he knew about the PPC roadmap that's been plastered all over the internet.
I still don't understand how, based on what we know about the G5, anyone could conclude that it will be a truly expensive beast. In fact based on the reports from the Register, Moto's been having great success with fabbing the G5, which suggests to me that it will be relatively inexpensive.
I have made up my mind. The G5 will not be released this week but at seybold in february. I am betting on a huge speed increase. Up to 1.8Ghz. The top end will be 200$ cheaper. I doubt there will be any announcement of them this week. I believe Philbot is making this all up just to get a long thread. I have spoken, let it come to pass.
[QUOTE]
I don't think the G5 will be released this week either, in the same way the iMac hasn't been released yet. But I still believe it will be announced this week (or at the latest Jan 31) and will be shipping in March.
Maybe we'll see a Fast, Faster, Fastest, Ulitimate range where the G5 is the top end Pro machine. That would be good, but not good enough, so I'll stick with my original bet that we'll see an Apollo line of towers for now and a new G5 range shipping in March.
Question: How does Steve feel when he wanders round Pixar and all the hard work is being done on SGi or NT boxes? If you were him woudn't you do something about it?
Philbot, do you just "think" all this stuff up? Or do you actually have credible info/sources to back up your evidence? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
<strong>I still don't understand how, based on what we know about the G5, anyone could conclude that it will be a truly expensive beast. In fact based on the reports from the Register, Moto's been having great success with fabbing the G5, which suggests to me that it will be relatively inexpensive.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My leading reason to suggest that is the same reason the new iMac starts at $1800 and works its way down from there. Everybody is going to want one, if its as great as the rumours predict. Supply and demand. If they can't build enough to supply the initial demand (and they can't) then they will play games with the pricing. G4 PowerMac sales will drop to zero if they intro the G5 and it is hugely improved... so they might price it so that they can clear inventory and catch up with demand.
The secondary reason is that the part might command a higher price from Motorola. Ramping up fabs is expensive, and getting good yields for the first month or two is rare. Heck Moto may just want to recoup some of the development costs to fund the G6. Pentium and Athlon prices do this too -- they intro at a high price and then they drop the prices over time. Its not just because they get into a pricewar, its because their costs are going down.
The same reasons apply to the motherboards and cases too... if they are new the startup cost is higher. New memory controllers, FireWire chipsets, etc etc.
In the end you're probably quite right -- the G5 will settle out to be a cost effective design. Its not likely to get there on day 1, however.
<strong>Philbot, do you just "think" all this stuff up? Or do you actually have credible info/sources to back up your evidence? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
The "I've made up my mind" quote says it all. If they wish for it enough they think they'll get it. What's funny is that if they keep wishing long enough they'll eventually get something close enough to let them think that their wishing had something to do with it.
<strong>Well since the G5 doesn't use the same process as the Apollo, this is a moot point...I figured that he knew about the PPC roadmap that's been plastered all over the internet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So in addition to misunderstanding Programmer (who talks much sense: you might try listening better), you also misunderstand Amorph, who said "Whether the G5 would start on a smaller process...as planned".
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>I still don't understand how, based on what we know about the G5, anyone could conclude that it will be a truly expensive beast. In fact based on the reports from the Register, Moto's been having great success with fabbing the G5....</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd like to point out that the PPC roadmap everyone keeps referring to is not only WOEFULLY OUT of DATE, it's also deliberately obscure. A "lagging indicator", as they say. Might as well judge modern technology based on '50s-era sci-fi "predictions", or assess your relationships based on "All My Children".
I think it's hilarious that the title of this thread, "G5 next week. Certain.", continues to work right up until the actual week that the G5 is released. When the post first went up, it was referring to this week (week of 1/21). Now it refers to next week (of 1/28).
I'll say one thing, you people never give up. The G5 will be here when it gets here, meanwhile get the machine that satifies your needs. As soon as you get one another one will come out that is faster, that's evolution (for you that belive in such a thing). The new imacs a great buy for non-professional users. I have a dual 800 and a 2001 733. the dual is a lot faster in some stuff (mainly multiple open processes). The 733 is just as good. I'd still like a dual 1.4 Mhz with DDR to hold me over for a year when the G5 is out and updated.
So the new Powermacs are being held back because there's still too many Quicksilvers on the shelves? Amazing. It's obvious no one is gonna buy a tower until the new models are out.
It looks like Apple are going to hold off till the iMac ships.
The only thing that makes me think philbot is right is who would have the guts or insanity to post a topic and say "certain". When they have just made it all up. I guess we will see by sunday if Philbot is crazy, stupid, or very smart. But just for the record I think he is crazy.
One question yes or no philbot. Do you have a source (insider at apple any thing) that makes you believe this.
Im the only one who is allowed to do that! </strong><hr></blockquote>
Philbot does not know a thing. There isn't a single solitary rumor out there suggesting G5's this week. None. And then when they do not get announced he will pull a Kormac and say that they were scheduled to but were delayed for some reason and for us not to blame him but blame Apple cause he has no control over it.
<strong>It was last updated 11/30/2001. Now I know the tech industry evolves rapidly, but I don't think one month and 24 day is that long. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Maybe I'm just suffering through a cerebral eclipse, but wasn't it the 8450 info page that was updated on that date (can't find the dang link :mad ? As distinct from the PPC roadmap, I mean?
The 8450, being a narrowly-targeted processor for the embedded/networking market, would offer precious little guidance on the future of the G5. So, updated info re: that particular chip would not qualify as an update to the G5 roadmap.
[quote]The only thing that makes me think philbot is right is who would have the guts or insanity to post a topic and say "certain". <hr></blockquote>
Good point. I don't think anyone would ever post something they claimed was "certain" or "confirmed" unless they had some damn solid evidence to back it up. Think of the consequences if their post turns out to be a hoax, their AI reputation for that handle (alias, name, email, etc.) would be ruined, their future credibility would be non-existent, and they would suffer the wrath of AI members from around the world. Who would risk that sort of ostracism just to pull a prank? Who would dare raise the heckles of the AI community? Who would dare fu[k with Mac-heads!?!?! Because we are an elite race of our own, the G3, G4, and OS X users.
Good point. I don't think anyone would ever post something they claimed was "certain" or "confirmed" unless they had some damn solid evidence to back it up. Think of the consequences if their post turns out to be a hoax, their AI reputation for that handle (alias, name, email, etc.) would be ruined, their future credibility would be non-existent, and they would suffer the wrath of AI members from around the world. Who would risk that sort of ostracism just to pull a prank? Who would dare raise the heckles of the AI community? Who would dare fu[k with Mac-heads!?!?! Because we are an elite race of our own, the G3, G4, and OS X users.</strong><hr></blockquote>
JyD-
Are you OK man? You seem a little, ....out there....
Comments
You don't mean the illusive Kormac surely?
<hr></blockquote>
Yes, I did. But stop calling me Shirley.
The ever illusive [sic] Kormac, in his latest elusive postings, mentioned many of same things as you in the twain to which I linked above.
I am curious where you get your certainty, for you run the risk of gaining the "Ever Allusive Philbot" moniker.
:cool:
Mandricard
AppleOutsider
The solution is to fab bigger chips on smaller processes, and that's what Programmer was worrying about: Whether the G5 would start on a smaller process than the Apollo as planned.
<hr></blockquote>
Well since the G5 doesn't use the same process as the Apollo, this is a moot point...I figured that he knew about the PPC roadmap that's been plastered all over the internet.
I still don't understand how, based on what we know about the G5, anyone could conclude that it will be a truly expensive beast. In fact based on the reports from the Register, Moto's been having great success with fabbing the G5, which suggests to me that it will be relatively inexpensive.
[ 01-23-2002: Message edited by: Junkyard Dawg ]</p>
I have made up my mind. The G5 will not be released this week but at seybold in february. I am betting on a huge speed increase. Up to 1.8Ghz. The top end will be 200$ cheaper. I doubt there will be any announcement of them this week. I believe Philbot is making this all up just to get a long thread. I have spoken, let it come to pass.
[QUOTE]
I don't think the G5 will be released this week either, in the same way the iMac hasn't been released yet. But I still believe it will be announced this week (or at the latest Jan 31) and will be shipping in March.
Maybe we'll see a Fast, Faster, Fastest, Ulitimate range where the G5 is the top end Pro machine. That would be good, but not good enough, so I'll stick with my original bet that we'll see an Apollo line of towers for now and a new G5 range shipping in March.
Question: How does Steve feel when he wanders round Pixar and all the hard work is being done on SGi or NT boxes? If you were him woudn't you do something about it?
[ 01-23-2002: Message edited by: Tarbash ]</p>
<strong>I still don't understand how, based on what we know about the G5, anyone could conclude that it will be a truly expensive beast. In fact based on the reports from the Register, Moto's been having great success with fabbing the G5, which suggests to me that it will be relatively inexpensive.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My leading reason to suggest that is the same reason the new iMac starts at $1800 and works its way down from there. Everybody is going to want one, if its as great as the rumours predict. Supply and demand. If they can't build enough to supply the initial demand (and they can't) then they will play games with the pricing. G4 PowerMac sales will drop to zero if they intro the G5 and it is hugely improved... so they might price it so that they can clear inventory and catch up with demand.
The secondary reason is that the part might command a higher price from Motorola. Ramping up fabs is expensive, and getting good yields for the first month or two is rare. Heck Moto may just want to recoup some of the development costs to fund the G6. Pentium and Athlon prices do this too -- they intro at a high price and then they drop the prices over time. Its not just because they get into a pricewar, its because their costs are going down.
The same reasons apply to the motherboards and cases too... if they are new the startup cost is higher. New memory controllers, FireWire chipsets, etc etc.
In the end you're probably quite right -- the G5 will settle out to be a cost effective design. Its not likely to get there on day 1, however.
<strong>Philbot, do you just "think" all this stuff up? Or do you actually have credible info/sources to back up your evidence? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
[ 01-23-2002: Message edited by: Tarbash ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
The "I've made up my mind" quote says it all. If they wish for it enough they think they'll get it. What's funny is that if they keep wishing long enough they'll eventually get something close enough to let them think that their wishing had something to do with it.
<strong>Well since the G5 doesn't use the same process as the Apollo, this is a moot point...I figured that he knew about the PPC roadmap that's been plastered all over the internet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So in addition to misunderstanding Programmer (who talks much sense: you might try listening better), you also misunderstand Amorph, who said "Whether the G5 would start on a smaller process...as planned".
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>I still don't understand how, based on what we know about the G5, anyone could conclude that it will be a truly expensive beast. In fact based on the reports from the Register, Moto's been having great success with fabbing the G5....</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd like to point out that the PPC roadmap everyone keeps referring to is not only WOEFULLY OUT of DATE, it's also deliberately obscure. A "lagging indicator", as they say. Might as well judge modern technology based on '50s-era sci-fi "predictions", or assess your relationships based on "All My Children".
It looks like Apple are going to hold off till the iMac ships.
DOH!
I'd like to point out that the PPC roadmap everyone keeps referring to is not only WOEFULLY OUT of DATE<hr></blockquote>
It was last updated 11/30/2001. Now I know the tech industry evolves rapidly, but I don't think one month and 24 day is that long.
<strong>Philbot, shouldn't you have known about this holding back of new PowerMacs? Whether they are G4 or G5??
Of course he did, read the title topic- "G5 next week. Certain"
One question yes or no philbot. Do you have a source (insider at apple any thing) that makes you believe this.
Im the only one who is allowed to do that!
<strong>Is he pulling a "mastergateing?"
Im the only one who is allowed to do that!
Philbot does not know a thing. There isn't a single solitary rumor out there suggesting G5's this week. None. And then when they do not get announced he will pull a Kormac and say that they were scheduled to but were delayed for some reason and for us not to blame him but blame Apple cause he has no control over it.
[QB]The only thing that makes me think philbot is right is who would have the guts or insanity to post a topic and say "certain". QB]<hr></blockquote>
PUH_LEASE!!!
This certainly would NOT be the first time someone has pulled something out of his butt and said it was for certain.
I'm not saying he did, but it's been done before.
<strong>It was last updated 11/30/2001. Now I know the tech industry evolves rapidly, but I don't think one month and 24 day is that long.
Maybe I'm just suffering through a cerebral eclipse, but wasn't it the 8450 info page that was updated on that date (can't find the dang link :mad
The 8450, being a narrowly-targeted processor for the embedded/networking market, would offer precious little guidance on the future of the G5. So, updated info re: that particular chip would not qualify as an update to the G5 roadmap.
Or so it seems to me....
Good point. I don't think anyone would ever post something they claimed was "certain" or "confirmed" unless they had some damn solid evidence to back it up. Think of the consequences if their post turns out to be a hoax, their AI reputation for that handle (alias, name, email, etc.) would be ruined, their future credibility would be non-existent, and they would suffer the wrath of AI members from around the world. Who would risk that sort of ostracism just to pull a prank? Who would dare raise the heckles of the AI community? Who would dare fu[k with Mac-heads!?!?! Because we are an elite race of our own, the G3, G4, and OS X users.
<strong>
Good point. I don't think anyone would ever post something they claimed was "certain" or "confirmed" unless they had some damn solid evidence to back it up. Think of the consequences if their post turns out to be a hoax, their AI reputation for that handle (alias, name, email, etc.) would be ruined, their future credibility would be non-existent, and they would suffer the wrath of AI members from around the world. Who would risk that sort of ostracism just to pull a prank? Who would dare raise the heckles of the AI community? Who would dare fu[k with Mac-heads!?!?! Because we are an elite race of our own, the G3, G4, and OS X users.</strong><hr></blockquote>
JyD-
Are you OK man? You seem a little, ....out there....
get help if you need it man...