I don't think Apple added the SD card slot for the stated reasons. No, I agree with many others that this is Apple trying to help the physical media along. I mean, why else would they tell you how to boot from SD? SD could hold more in a smaller space. Who doesn't want that?
Yes Apple is supporting the use of SD cards, but I don't think this marks Apple pushing SD cards as a solution for general storage. I think Apple simply provided the slot and will let the market decide what they want to do with it. That does not automatically mean most people will use it, if they don't Apple may stop including it.
Quote:
While I think that SD will kill all optical, I think that Apple needs to add BD support. I mean, how hard can it be to add BD support to DVD player(or add DVD/BD playback in iTunes X, allowing Apple TV to access it)? Then Apple can then sell overpriced BD drives as BTO in MBP and MP. And of course we all know that Apple likes large profit margins... I think that ought to guarantee BD coming to the Mac soon enough I expect it in 10.7(Lion?).
It would not be difficult to include Blu-ray. But there is little advantage to adding it. Blu-ray would not help Apple sell significantly more Macs.
Optical media already has one foot in the grave. Streaming and downloading are already killing it.
We might see it at some point, but I do not see it in the near future. "Pros" can create BDs on a Mac using Adobe Encore, and you can burn them too (using an external drive or by adding a BD-Writer to a Mac Pro). I export private HD movies edited in iMovie HD to Divx HD and burn them to regular DVDs, this approach is a lot cheaper as BD-media is still quite expensive and the quality is great.
Apple is obviously giving up on optical media. iDVD and DVD Studio Pro have not seen significant updates since more than 4 years. I guess we will rather see a full line-up of MBPs without any optical drives than we will see MBPs with BD drives.
I can see that- but I'm more concerned with the desktops, iMacs, Pros and Minis.
It was around March we saw the first 9.5mm BRD appear in notebooks. Still tray-loading, not slot-loading, very slow and very expensive, even for BR readers, but they did come to market. It shouldn?t be too long before the slot-loaders hit market.
Blu-Ray is a stop gap technology. Considering Flash Drives can now hold more data than a BluRD they should just make codec boxes. Much like my DVD player plays AVIs. There are a few ways this works.
1. Download full uncompressed HD video at home (50GBs)
2. Go to local store (Best Buy) and plug your Flash into there (not yet existing) movie download hub.
3. Netflix Sends LOCKED flashdrives in stead of disc.
This model is less wasteful and more adaptive to future technology and file standards.
Although at the present moment the transfer speed would amount to a 25 minute wait for DL.
Here's a question that I have: Is it possible for a hardware or software manufacturer to include access to a Blu-Ray drive without the media? That is, could I potentially buy a Mac with a Blu-Ray drive that is only usable for file storage but that doesn't read Blu-Ray movie disks? Or does the whole kit and caboodle have to be licensed as a "bag of hurt"?
Just curious. I'm sure many OS X and Linux users would love to be able to use Blu-Ray exclusively for file storage.
Well, you can do that today, for quite a while actually. Toast supports Blu-Ray burning since version 8. Just connect an external drive and you can use it for storage (or add an internal one to the Mac Pro). It does not make much sense though, as external HDs, even bus-powered ones, are cheaper. An external 500 GB 2.5" USB drive is cheaper and smaller than 10 50 GB Blu-Ray discs.
Yes Apple is supporting the use of SD cards, but I don't think this marks Apple pushing SD cards as a solution for general storage. I think Apple simply provided the slot and will let the market decide what they want to do with it. That does not automatically mean most people will use it, if they don't Apple may stop including it.
It was a long time coming- almost 10 years. It sure beats having to use a cable to transfer photos.
Quote:
It would not be difficult to include Blu-ray. But there is little advantage to adding it. Blu-ray would not help Apple sell significantly more Macs.
And how do you know that?
Quote:
Optical media already has one foot in the grave. Streaming and downloading are already killing it.[/
Blu-ray is a Sony style business model of holding on to old successes instead of embracing new business models as things change all around you. While I agree Blu-ray is a good product, its prime time has passed.
It won't be much longer before broadcast networks and cable systems figure out how to use technology such as http live streaming, to stream live video and video on demand to any electronic device. That is what I mean by convenient and cheap over quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by holywarrior007
But Apple doesn't support and encourage cheap quality. After all, they distinguish themselves with others precisely on the same point.
Actually when I get a new MacBook Pro I likely will use it. But I rarely see anyone take the SD card out of their camera.
The SD slot replaced the Express Card slot. Apple less than 1% of customers made use of the Express Card slot. Apple knew people would be extremely upset if they dropped the Express Card slot and left nothing.
They didn't say less than 1%. They said single digit.
As many know I'm a fan of HD DVD and I've recently bought a Blu-ray player.
Even then I find that assumed notion that Apple's moving from CD ->DVD-> Blu-ray abstract from reality.
Often the argument is "I want to carry movies over to a friends home for playback"
Well I believe that 5 years from today people won't carry a laptop or even the disc over to a friends home. They'll simply whip out their portable iPod Multimedia device which contains dozens of movies and they'll link up to a HDTV and play.
Virgil-TB2 has said it as succinctly as possible. Optical is slow, it's inconvenient and let me add power inefficient. The sooner it stops being integrated the sooner the current generation wakes up from its slumber and realizes that there are a plethora of ways to distribute media now.
Already on the way out. The sooner we're rid of that extra crap the better. More Discs in boxes piling up in the corner of your house somewhere. Too funny.
By the time Blu Ray truly goes mainstream (it still hasn't), we'll be getting all our HD content online, and then you can transfer it to any device as you wish. Wirelessly even.
With Blu-ray movie sales up, I don't think physical disc are on the way out yet. Besides, even if physical discs becomes out, it will just be replaced by movies on the hard drive, another form of physical media. With movies competing for space on the hard drive with photos, music, etc. the juggling external hard drives will be more confusing.
On the other hand though, the whole concept of optical storage is really passe. It's the slowest, the least reliable, the least archival, and the smallest storage size of any medium. Even Blu-Ray. Shiny plastic discs should really just go the same way as vinyl records and analogue tapes.
Except that you want to have a physical copy of a file, in addition to having it stored on an HD as a precaution. DVD simply isn't good enough for that function now that the files coming off some video recording devices is so massive. My hybrid camera, for instance, produces huge files and I'd just as soon have something with more capacity to work with. The DVDs I'm burning my files onto are piling up.
Blu-Ray has a place in an HD work flow for the average consumer who is into shooting video. Even if the distribution of professional material is more popular through other means, there is still a point to having a higher capacity optical storage option available for personal use. I assume that DRM is simply not an issue when you're burning your own material but I'm no expert on that subject. I would certainly not be comfortable with having my files stored exclusively on a device that could quite easily fail, taking my video files with it. I realize that optical media is far from secure but having files stored in a variety of forms is a smart thing to do. Putting all your faith in a single storage option is playing Russian Roulette with your memories. It's irreplaceable stuff that becomes far more valuable with age.
As for optical media disappearing as a means of distributing movies and the like, I don't see that happening. What I do see, however, is that the difference in quality between upconverted DVD and Blu-Ray is such that the average consumer will only embrace Blu-Ray if the cost of movies and the players themselves fall in line with what we're all used to paying for DVD. There was a belief that consumers would pay a premium but few will. The sooner Hollywood studios figure that out the sooner Blu-Ray will take hold in a serious way. There are signs that message is sinking in and I hope it does because I'd hate to think people into quality are going to suffer because the average schmuck isn't paying enough attention to bother supporting a superior format. I see the difference between proper HD and upconverted DVD but I also realize that the difference is subtle enough many people, distracted by the details that bombard us daily, simply wouldn't notice. Put in a DVD and it looks pretty good. For most that's good enough.
In any case, Blu-Ray is going to be around for quite some time and be more than a fringe item. It will share the stage, unlike past technologies, but it will be a very popular format. Apple will, eventually, offer Blu-Ray support but it's not something that will happen as quickly as some would like.
Well, we don't know that, but as BD is still creeping around 3% of the movie market in the US and even less globally (in most of Asia it will likely not even take off at all, as they work on an alternate cheaper format), there is little reason to believe that adding a BD drive would really help sales. Especially since the major part of Apple's computer business is laptops and the price of slim BD writers is still prohibitive. Raising the price by 300 - 400 USD just to cater for 3% of the audience would not really help right now.
MPEG-2 - enhanced for HD, also used for playback of DVDs and HDTV recordings.
MPEG-4 AVC - part of the MPEG-4 standard also known as H.264 (High Profile and Main Profile).
SMPTE VC-1 - standard based on Microsoft's Windows Media Video (WMV) technology.
Please note that this simply means that all Blu-ray players and recorders will have to support playback of these video codecs, it will still be up to the movie studios to decide which video codec(s) they use for their releases."
Doesn't sound like a standard has been agreed upon.
I think the old betamax crowd see's a final chance to live again here, Except apple already knows that the optical drives are dead just like matte screens and just like fire wire dead dead dead .
SO you can spend money on blu ray and in a few months or couple of years the whole industry will be phased out and replaced by USB 2 or USB 3 data drives . Your money is wasted .
I will never buy a disc again unless it's a transformer level movie.
My MOVIE GUY now gives me usb drives w/star trek on it.
I placed the file on my hard drive and MY MBP DVD player, QUICKTIME player > played the movie in perfect quality equal to an itunes HD movie down load or HULU hi-res mode.
A whole industry just died . We just can't see it yet . I wondered about the MBA for a long time. Now I get it . We will have in the near future little SD movie cards or little usb cards or multi movie or large ssd 128 g bricks.
So this whole blu-ray angst going on here is moot and silly . Blu-ray is already obsolete.
I think the old betamax crowd see's a final chance to live again here, Except apple already knows that the optical drives are dead just like matte screens and just like fire wire dead dead dead .
SO you can spend money on blu ray and in a few months or couple of years the whole industry will be phased out and replaced by USB 2 or USB 3 data drives . Your money is wasted .
I will never buy a disc again unless it's a transformer level movie.
My MOVIE GUY now gives me usb drives w/star trek on it.
I placed the file on my hard drive and MY MBP DVD player, QUICKTIME player play the movie on perfect quality equal to an itunes movie down load .
A whole industry just died . We just can't see it yet . I wondered about the MBA for a long time. Now I get it . We will have in the near future little SD movie cards or little usb cards or multi movie or large ssd 128 g bricks.
So this whole blu-ray angst going on here is moot and silly . Blu-ray is already obsolete.
9
Not if you own a 42 inch plasma TV. It's the only way to go at this point.
Comments
I don't think Apple added the SD card slot for the stated reasons. No, I agree with many others that this is Apple trying to help the physical media along. I mean, why else would they tell you how to boot from SD? SD could hold more in a smaller space. Who doesn't want that?
Yes Apple is supporting the use of SD cards, but I don't think this marks Apple pushing SD cards as a solution for general storage. I think Apple simply provided the slot and will let the market decide what they want to do with it. That does not automatically mean most people will use it, if they don't Apple may stop including it.
While I think that SD will kill all optical, I think that Apple needs to add BD support. I mean, how hard can it be to add BD support to DVD player(or add DVD/BD playback in iTunes X, allowing Apple TV to access it)? Then Apple can then sell overpriced BD drives as BTO in MBP and MP. And of course we all know that Apple likes large profit margins... I think that ought to guarantee BD coming to the Mac soon enough
It would not be difficult to include Blu-ray. But there is little advantage to adding it. Blu-ray would not help Apple sell significantly more Macs.
Optical media already has one foot in the grave. Streaming and downloading are already killing it.
We might see it at some point, but I do not see it in the near future. "Pros" can create BDs on a Mac using Adobe Encore, and you can burn them too (using an external drive or by adding a BD-Writer to a Mac Pro). I export private HD movies edited in iMovie HD to Divx HD and burn them to regular DVDs, this approach is a lot cheaper as BD-media is still quite expensive and the quality is great.
Apple is obviously giving up on optical media. iDVD and DVD Studio Pro have not seen significant updates since more than 4 years. I guess we will rather see a full line-up of MBPs without any optical drives than we will see MBPs with BD drives.
I can see that- but I'm more concerned with the desktops, iMacs, Pros and Minis.
This will be cool...
Hey techstud,
Got my MBP and iPod Touch yesterday.
Its really as great as i expected it to be though i wish i had gone for 15 inch.
The iphone simulator looks so BIG..
Why not the 15" . I debated for months my self
but the 2 chip design won out.
9
It was around March we saw the first 9.5mm BRD appear in notebooks. Still tray-loading, not slot-loading, very slow and very expensive, even for BR readers, but they did come to market. It shouldn?t be too long before the slot-loaders hit market.
Well, the link actually points to a 12.7 mm drive...
1. Download full uncompressed HD video at home (50GBs)
2. Go to local store (Best Buy) and plug your Flash into there (not yet existing) movie download hub.
3. Netflix Sends LOCKED flashdrives in stead of disc.
This model is less wasteful and more adaptive to future technology and file standards.
Although at the present moment the transfer speed would amount to a 25 minute wait for DL.
Here's a question that I have: Is it possible for a hardware or software manufacturer to include access to a Blu-Ray drive without the media? That is, could I potentially buy a Mac with a Blu-Ray drive that is only usable for file storage but that doesn't read Blu-Ray movie disks? Or does the whole kit and caboodle have to be licensed as a "bag of hurt"?
Just curious. I'm sure many OS X and Linux users would love to be able to use Blu-Ray exclusively for file storage.
Well, you can do that today, for quite a while actually. Toast supports Blu-Ray burning since version 8. Just connect an external drive and you can use it for storage (or add an internal one to the Mac Pro). It does not make much sense though, as external HDs, even bus-powered ones, are cheaper. An external 500 GB 2.5" USB drive is cheaper and smaller than 10 50 GB Blu-Ray discs.
Yes Apple is supporting the use of SD cards, but I don't think this marks Apple pushing SD cards as a solution for general storage. I think Apple simply provided the slot and will let the market decide what they want to do with it. That does not automatically mean most people will use it, if they don't Apple may stop including it.
It was a long time coming- almost 10 years. It sure beats having to use a cable to transfer photos.
It would not be difficult to include Blu-ray. But there is little advantage to adding it. Blu-ray would not help Apple sell significantly more Macs.
And how do you know that?
Optical media already has one foot in the grave. Streaming and downloading are already killing it.[/
Dvd quality -yes
HD Blu-ray quality -NO.
Blu-ray is a Sony style business model of holding on to old successes instead of embracing new business models as things change all around you. While I agree Blu-ray is a good product, its prime time has passed.
It won't be much longer before broadcast networks and cable systems figure out how to use technology such as http live streaming, to stream live video and video on demand to any electronic device. That is what I mean by convenient and cheap over quality.
But Apple doesn't support and encourage cheap quality. After all, they distinguish themselves with others precisely on the same point.
Actually when I get a new MacBook Pro I likely will use it. But I rarely see anyone take the SD card out of their camera.
The SD slot replaced the Express Card slot. Apple less than 1% of customers made use of the Express Card slot. Apple knew people would be extremely upset if they dropped the Express Card slot and left nothing.
They didn't say less than 1%. They said single digit.
Even then I find that assumed notion that Apple's moving from CD ->DVD-> Blu-ray abstract from reality.
Often the argument is "I want to carry movies over to a friends home for playback"
Well I believe that 5 years from today people won't carry a laptop or even the disc over to a friends home. They'll simply whip out their portable iPod Multimedia device which contains dozens of movies and they'll link up to a HDTV and play.
Virgil-TB2 has said it as succinctly as possible. Optical is slow, it's inconvenient and let me add power inefficient. The sooner it stops being integrated the sooner the current generation wakes up from its slumber and realizes that there are a plethora of ways to distribute media now.
While I agree Blu-ray is a good product, its prime time has passed.
.
Really- when was its prime?
Blu Ray players and physical disc media?
Already on the way out. The sooner we're rid of that extra crap the better. More Discs in boxes piling up in the corner of your house somewhere. Too funny.
By the time Blu Ray truly goes mainstream (it still hasn't), we'll be getting all our HD content online, and then you can transfer it to any device as you wish. Wirelessly even.
With Blu-ray movie sales up, I don't think physical disc are on the way out yet. Besides, even if physical discs becomes out, it will just be replaced by movies on the hard drive, another form of physical media. With movies competing for space on the hard drive with photos, music, etc. the juggling external hard drives will be more confusing.
Really- when was its prime?
It
On the other hand though, the whole concept of optical storage is really passe. It's the slowest, the least reliable, the least archival, and the smallest storage size of any medium. Even Blu-Ray. Shiny plastic discs should really just go the same way as vinyl records and analogue tapes.
Except that you want to have a physical copy of a file, in addition to having it stored on an HD as a precaution. DVD simply isn't good enough for that function now that the files coming off some video recording devices is so massive. My hybrid camera, for instance, produces huge files and I'd just as soon have something with more capacity to work with. The DVDs I'm burning my files onto are piling up.
Blu-Ray has a place in an HD work flow for the average consumer who is into shooting video. Even if the distribution of professional material is more popular through other means, there is still a point to having a higher capacity optical storage option available for personal use. I assume that DRM is simply not an issue when you're burning your own material but I'm no expert on that subject. I would certainly not be comfortable with having my files stored exclusively on a device that could quite easily fail, taking my video files with it. I realize that optical media is far from secure but having files stored in a variety of forms is a smart thing to do. Putting all your faith in a single storage option is playing Russian Roulette with your memories. It's irreplaceable stuff that becomes far more valuable with age.
As for optical media disappearing as a means of distributing movies and the like, I don't see that happening. What I do see, however, is that the difference in quality between upconverted DVD and Blu-Ray is such that the average consumer will only embrace Blu-Ray if the cost of movies and the players themselves fall in line with what we're all used to paying for DVD. There was a belief that consumers would pay a premium but few will. The sooner Hollywood studios figure that out the sooner Blu-Ray will take hold in a serious way. There are signs that message is sinking in and I hope it does because I'd hate to think people into quality are going to suffer because the average schmuck isn't paying enough attention to bother supporting a superior format. I see the difference between proper HD and upconverted DVD but I also realize that the difference is subtle enough many people, distracted by the details that bombard us daily, simply wouldn't notice. Put in a DVD and it looks pretty good. For most that's good enough.
In any case, Blu-Ray is going to be around for quite some time and be more than a fringe item. It will share the stage, unlike past technologies, but it will be a very popular format. Apple will, eventually, offer Blu-Ray support but it's not something that will happen as quickly as some would like.
And how do you know that?
Well, we don't know that, but as BD is still creeping around 3% of the movie market in the US and even less globally (in most of Asia it will likely not even take off at all, as they work on an alternate cheaper format), there is little reason to believe that adding a BD drive would really help sales. Especially since the major part of Apple's computer business is laptops and the price of slim BD writers is still prohibitive. Raising the price by 300 - 400 USD just to cater for 3% of the audience would not really help right now.
Steve Jobs was absolutely right. Blu Ray is nothing but a bag of hurt I totally brought upon myself.
Yes. Blu Ray has no value because you're stupid enough to buy multiple copies of Harry Potter movies.
New releases abound. Can't wait to get "2008/2009 Taipei 101 Fireworks Blu-ray," just released.
But my Mac doesn't have a player. And if it did, how can my family watch it if I am using it.
Guess, I will have to get a player just for the rest of the family. NOT.
Any want to see a media crash: http://www.blu-ray.com/
In the FAQ, see 1.8, i.e.,
"What video codecs will Blu-ray support?
MPEG-2 - enhanced for HD, also used for playback of DVDs and HDTV recordings.
MPEG-4 AVC - part of the MPEG-4 standard also known as H.264 (High Profile and Main Profile).
SMPTE VC-1 - standard based on Microsoft's Windows Media Video (WMV) technology.
Please note that this simply means that all Blu-ray players and recorders will have to support playback of these video codecs, it will still be up to the movie studios to decide which video codec(s) they use for their releases."
Doesn't sound like a standard has been agreed upon.
And look at section 3. http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_formats
I think the old betamax crowd see's a final chance to live again here, Except apple already knows that the optical drives are dead just like matte screens and just like fire wire dead dead dead .
SO you can spend money on blu ray and in a few months or couple of years the whole industry will be phased out and replaced by USB 2 or USB 3 data drives . Your money is wasted .
I will never buy a disc again unless it's a transformer level movie.
My MOVIE GUY now gives me usb drives w/star trek on it.
I placed the file on my hard drive and MY MBP DVD player, QUICKTIME player > played the movie in perfect quality equal to an itunes HD movie down load or HULU hi-res mode.
A whole industry just died . We just can't see it yet . I wondered about the MBA for a long time. Now I get it . We will have in the near future little SD movie cards or little usb cards or multi movie or large ssd 128 g bricks.
So this whole blu-ray angst going on here is moot and silly . Blu-ray is already obsolete.
9
Right after DVD overtook VHS and before Hulu.
That's funny- 'cause none of those things is HD.
hmmm....
I think the old betamax crowd see's a final chance to live again here, Except apple already knows that the optical drives are dead just like matte screens and just like fire wire dead dead dead .
SO you can spend money on blu ray and in a few months or couple of years the whole industry will be phased out and replaced by USB 2 or USB 3 data drives . Your money is wasted .
I will never buy a disc again unless it's a transformer level movie.
My MOVIE GUY now gives me usb drives w/star trek on it.
I placed the file on my hard drive and MY MBP DVD player, QUICKTIME player play the movie on perfect quality equal to an itunes movie down load .
A whole industry just died . We just can't see it yet . I wondered about the MBA for a long time. Now I get it . We will have in the near future little SD movie cards or little usb cards or multi movie or large ssd 128 g bricks.
So this whole blu-ray angst going on here is moot and silly . Blu-ray is already obsolete.
9
Not if you own a 42 inch plasma TV. It's the only way to go at this point.