Yes, but he's a professional dickhead historian and you aren't.
I agree though...an $800 10" slate isn't very compelling. Maybe they can pull off something spectacular and it will be interesting to see what happens.
If this tablet is supposed to compete (as you say, and i agree) then why is this rumored price point almost the cost of a Macbook? You could buy 2-3 NetBooks for the price point of this.
but you have to think of poor apple and their margins. how can they sell something for less than 60% or more GM's?
unless it has some amazing ability to do things like never before it will be like the original iphone. the fan boys will run out of the store happy and being cheered on by the sales staff. the rest of us will wait it out to be something useful
only thing i can think of is that it will be cheaper than car dvd systems if you have kids old enough to play games and watch Pixar movies
A properly designed software keyboard could easily outperform a physical qwerty.
Remember the history of qwerty... they were designed specifically to be inefficient.
The problem isn't potential speed. Its the fact that most people are too lazy to re-learn anything they consider adequate. That may be a real hurdle, but don't think for a minute that there aren't input solutions that blow physical qwerty away.
Not to mention that on a 10" slate device you've just wiped out half of the usable screen real estate by using a touch keyboard.
True, but, we are talking about power typing, here, by a trained typist.
First, the intelligent virtual kb would reposition itself to always be under the fingers, whatever the hand position
Second, while learning the new virtual kb a semi-transparent heads-up key board could be displayed.
Third, once proficient with the new virtual kb, the heads-up would disappear== no need to look at the keyboard.
Fourth, a simple 4-finger double-tap would display/dismiss the kb heads-up when necessary.
We have artists creating/playing music on an iPhone. Isn't it possible that a clerk/typist could enter a text document... or are they just too set in their ways to learn a new, possibly better way?
Daughter has a Black MacBook but wanted a desktop. I didn't want to spend the money. Found a nice old school iMac Graphite. That's her homework computer, in her room on a desk. Couldn't agree with you more. Old dog works great!
Kids carry around backpacks too. Should apple go after the backpack market?
Steve said it succinctly and he said it best: Apple doesn't make junk.
I have a couple of netbooks and they are junk, I never use them. Instead I use my 12" pbook or my iphone for mobility. I wouldn't want my kid to try to read and work in one of those netbooks, they would need glasses and will have scoliosis by the age of 17. Oh and I hear you say yeah but the iphone is much smaller, well, you hold the iphone up close to you like a book, you don't have to hunch over.
TO PARENTS: Do your selves and your kids a favour and get them a nice imac to do their work at home so they don't have to hunch and squint over a damn netbook and so that they can do some basic work done without needing glasses and spinal surgery. And if you want them to be mobile, on the go, (I wouldn't necessarily want that for a my kid, it's best to live in real world no cyber world for a change) get them an iphone. Don't get suckered in into buying junk that you are going to throw away.
And that's another issue, something isn't really cheap when it's crap, it goes unused, it breaks easily. In order to get any half decent netbook you d have to go with $1000 for a sony which would still be a dog with windows. How is then apple pricing (alleged pricing) of the device expensive?
As for people who don't "get" the apple tablet, you are entitled to your opinion and that's the reason of the forum, but I would suggest you just sit back and enjoy apple reinventing another market, and guess what I foresee that in a couple of year we ll have the, wait for it:
Remember all the multi touch was invented way back when for the tablet crowd > i think it was NEXT/BE early PIXAR days when the whole multi touch got its patents <<i think >
You think wrong. Multi-touch research has been around since before the original mac came out. Buxton has a nice history up through 1982.
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Doctors lawyers and field workers have needed a product like this forever .After 18 months after its out the public will let is know what its best used for just like the touch
Doctors largely have moved back from slates to convertibles. There's a lot of info (most text) on the screen that would be obscured by a software keyboard. 10" isn't all that big for a computer display and there are pages of patient info.
Handwriting recognition...these ARE doctors. I remember a fair bit of complaining by the nurses trying to read the scrawl on the screen. It's lower res than paper so it was near hopeless for some doctors.
Voice recording might work...but then the nurses are stuck doing transcription. Non-optimal.
True, but, we are talking about power typing, here, by a trained typist.
First, the intelligent virtual kb would reposition itself to always be under the fingers, whatever the hand position
10" is 10". You can no more fit a full sized virtual keyboard on it than you can fit a physical keyboard in the same space. Even a condensed one will take up valuable screen real-estate.
Congrats, you've just turned a 10" slate into a 5" convertible without physical feedback or the ability to stand on its own.
Better would be two thumb keyboards in the corners. Faster than T9, usable in slate format, doesn't take that much screen real estate. Downside? Not as fast as a real keyboard.
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We have artists creating/playing music on an iPhone. Isn't it possible that a clerk/typist could enter a text document... or are they just too set in their ways to learn a new, possibly better way?
Given the complete lack of success for dvorak and chording keyboards I'd say any expectation that a new typing method will become widespread is unlikely except when there is no other choice (T9). Kids can type pretty fast using T9 but in shorthand...unless you want all your documents to look 1337.
You think wrong. Multi-touch research has been around since before the original mac came out. Buxton has a nice history up through 1982.
Doctors largely have moved back from slates to convertibles. There's a lot of info (most text) on the screen that would be obscured by a software keyboard. 10" isn't all that big for a computer display and there are pages of patient info.
Handwriting recognition...these ARE doctors. I remember a fair bit of complaining by the nurses trying to read the scrawl on the screen. It's lower res than paper so it was near hopeless for some doctors.
Voice recording might work...but then the nurses are stuck doing transcription. Non-optimal.
Interesting. What is this obsession with getting things into typewriter form? You are assuming that science will continue to stay in the background and that people will continue to work with minimal mathematical tools. It's a sad day when a simple matrix/spreadsheet is considered an advanced tool. The typewriter is simply not the right tool for intricate work nor is it the proper tool for scientific communication. There is no need to obsess with handwriting recognition to text. Handwriting intermingled with pictures, drawing, video, etc...doesn't have to be turned into something which Microsoft Word can deal with. It is what it is. Ask any student in science whether or not a tablet is useful. The only reason they aren't popular is price.
I guess I am questioning the need to get everything transcribed into text. Storage is cheap and we can now make full use of video, drawing, handwriting, etc...without regressing 500 years to ascii. People don't want to read text for the most part. They want more detailed information and not one rooted in the Middle Ages. Word processing has kept us back ages. It's time to move on. Sure there's still a huge need, but it's not the future. I think Jobs was on to something when he mused about the reading habits of people and as one who would never again buy a computer typewriter, I only wish that Apple would come out with a tablet which puts the qwerty keyboard where it belongs.
You think wrong. Multi-touch research has been around since before the original mac came out. Buxton has a nice history up through 1982.
Doctors largely have moved back from slates to convertibles. There's a lot of info (most text) on the screen that would be obscured by a software keyboard. 10" isn't all that big for a computer display and there are pages of patient info.
Handwriting recognition...these ARE doctors. I remember a fair bit of complaining by the nurses trying to read the scrawl on the screen. It's lower res than paper so it was near hopeless for some doctors.
Voice recording might work...but then the nurses are stuck doing transcription. Non-optimal.
The keyboard would be translucent and would collapse at will.
FOR a doctor to have world wide info available while treating a patient including > X-rays > Complete records > and have info emailed right to the device are great things to have . In a 9x6 lab coat size . Right now i can't help to think your correct YET the doctors will adjust to the device ,
damn man can you be any more gutless? You said something, stick to what you said. A few minutes down the line and you start the back stepping? It's one thing to make foolish predictions, but to not stand by them a few minutes down the line? ...tstsststst....
Somehow you got this fixation that since apple included a camera in the nano they are catering to the flip crowd and kids, and somehow they should release a kids tablet, or a kids priced tablets to compete with netbooks (although the ipod touch serves that purpose excellently, being also a gaming device which the netbooks are not), or an apple netbook, or kids apple netbook -or whatever you mean- and somehow make it apple class yet dirt cheap too (much like sony say with their $1200 netbooks yet at $300 from apple), and how the table will be a failure, and all this nonsensical crap is ringing in you head and getting poured out in these forums, but at least stand by this crap!!!
And because you seem to be patently obtuse or patently misconstruing what others are saying, where the heck did I trash the zune? I made an ironic remark in terms of it being a belated clone, which was my whole case, how apple will again innovate and others will follow.
The iPod touch is not a competitor to a Netbook. I hate to disagree with you but you can't do a lot of things on the touch that you can do on a net book (i.e. word processing, spread sheets, look at flash-based web media, upload any app/game you currently use on a PC). Kids (6-12) year olds lets say, seem to be flocking to these because the device is their size, it's got enough power for just about anything they would need to do and they are super cheap so the parents don't feel like it's a waste of money. Even Schools now are using Netbooks in class, and providing them for kids to use.
I also don't think "stud" was inferring that Apple create something that size for kids. I think he was suggesting that Apple compete with the netbook both in size and price. We obviously know if Apple made a Netbook it would rock, but it this economy and world we live in, it's a good idea to be close to market value. Some people on this forum said it better, but the iPhone when it first came out was a niche device and didn't gain popularity until it was priced to compete with other smartphones out there. Same thing with the iPod. it first couple generations were popular but it wasn't untill the iPod was priced to suit, (iPod Mini, Nano and Shuffle) that made apple the exclusive company for portable media it is today.
I have seen enough posts on this forum about all these people praising apple for coming up with this Tablet idea, but then also saying in the same breath that they use a 12" powerbook for mobile use. Sounds to me as if Apple really does need to rethink the MB Air and shrink it to netbook size, and price it competitively.
I think the real problem MS has is that none of their products can be discussed in a coffe clatch. meaning nothing from microsoft is a household word, and Apple as a certain knack for making products that even my grandma has heard of. And they work.
FOR a doctor to have world wide info available while treating a patient including > X-rays > Complete records > and have info emailed right to the device are great things to have . In a 9x6 lab coat size . Right now i can't help to think your correct YET the doctors will adjust to the device ,
They have that right now in a smallish convertible tablet. Not lab coat sized but they are in their own offices.
Voice recording might work...but then the nurses are stuck doing transcription. Non-optimal.
Nurses don't do transcription, that's what transcription services are for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd
I guess I am questioning the need to get everything transcribed into text. Storage is cheap and we can now make full use of video, drawing, handwriting, etc...without regressing 500 years to ascii. People don't want to read text for the most part. They want more detailed information and not one rooted in the Middle Ages. Word processing has kept us back ages. It's time to move on. Sure there's still a huge need, but it's not the future. I think Jobs was on to something when he mused about the reading habits of people and as one who would never again buy a computer typewriter, I only wish that Apple would come out with a tablet which puts the qwerty keyboard where it belongs.
Well, in terms of medical/patient information, most hospital information systems aren't really set up at this point to handle drawings and handwritten notes. (Thus the need for transcription services.)
But, I would suggest that people not wanting to read text is more likely to regress us 1000 years to the Dark Ages. Videos are for the intellectually lazy and don't express ideas as precisely and in as much detail as is possible in text (unless it's a video of someone reading text, but reading it yourself is still better). The "printed" word isn't holding anyone back, unless they are illiterate. Somehow, I just don't think On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life would have had quite the same impact as a 3 minute YouTube video uploaded by Chuckie D.
(OK, I'm overstating the case. Video is useful in cases where particular physical actions need to be demonstrated, but these are not generally the sorts of things demanding of intellectual rigor, unless you are in physics class. But, ASCII? I mean, not even Windows depends on ASCII any longer? And, do you really want to be the guy watching TV in the Hulu commercial? Jobs didn't say that it was a good thing people don't read anymore. He didn't say he doesn't read anymore.)
Which is not to say that a tablet that would facilitate handwritten notes and drawings would not be a good thing. These are surely useful, even if primarily for personal use, or as, for example, electronic lab notes. The aforementioned Chuckie D. made extensive use of handwritten notes and drawings (his own and those of others). But, civilization is built on "text", and the decline of the latter will lead to much the same for the former.
(Not to mention text being much more easily searched, of course. Again, these other forms of expressing ideas are useful, but they are not a replacement for text.)
Interesting. What is this obsession with getting things into typewriter form? You are assuming that science will continue to stay in the background and that people will continue to work with minimal mathematical tools. It's a sad day when a simple matrix/spreadsheet is considered an advanced tool. The typewriter is simply not the right tool for intricate work nor is it the proper tool for scientific communication.
Yes, because there is no text in a scientific publication.
"A simple spreadsheet" like excel is a very powerful tool given you can program it with special functions. I can get a linear, quadratic or other solvers as an excel addon.
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There is no need to obsess with handwriting recognition to text. Handwriting intermingled with pictures, drawing, video, etc...doesn't have to be turned into something which Microsoft Word can deal with. It is what it is. Ask any student in science whether or not a tablet is useful. The only reason they aren't popular is price.
Given I work in a research institution and our budget for personal work PCs provides me a Mac Pro with 30" ACD and a 17" MBP (no not both bought in one year), I can say that price is not a barrier to entry. I also have 3 tablets. One rugged slate, one Panasonic convertible and one Motion Computing one.
Handwriting is not useful. I have various notes taken in ink (on my various tablets, Cross Pad, Seiko SmartPad and ThinkNote) and they are not searchable without either OCR or my manually tagging them.
I cannot easily convert them from one form to another, cut and paste them or manipulate them except as virtual ink on a virtual page unless I OCR. Nice for diagrams but not nice for text.
Formulas are not in any useful form. It's not like I can take a handwritten formula and drop it in mathematica or matlab.
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I guess I am questioning the need to get everything transcribed into text. Storage is cheap and we can now make full use of video, drawing, handwriting, etc...without regressing 500 years to ascii. People don't want to read text for the most part. They want more detailed information and not one rooted in the Middle Ages.
Try meta-tagging videos, drawings, etc to be as arbitrarily searchable as a text. We've been working with large amounts of imagery and meta data is difficult to get accurately entered by users. The problem isn't finding SOMETHING from the metatags. If the library is big enough there's usually something tagged. The problem is find the something you wanted or not missing the something that would be important to you.
Contrast this with asking your information specialist to do a literature search for related journal articles.
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Word processing has kept us back ages.
Yes, none of my textbooks or science journals have any text. And video taped lectures (which I have a small collection) are very useful as reference material and quick to access new or needed information.
Or maybe one of those archaic text based scientific papers that we have on-line is more compact, easier to use and more generally useful?
Nah.
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It's time to move on. Sure there's still a huge need, but it's not the future. I think Jobs was on to something when he mused about the reading habits of people
Scientists read. It's one of those required skills...
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and as one who would never again buy a computer typewriter,
Yes, because we're carrying on this exchange of opinions via youtube.
Remember all the multi touch was invented way back when for the tablet crowd > i think it was NEXT/BE early PIXAR days when the whole multi touch got its patents.
NeXT? Be?!?!? Pixar lol ---
Perhaps you might be thing to think of Fingerworks?
One of the many acquisitions Apple has made over the years that kinda slid under the radar and one that turned out to be a very wise one given the IP (patents) they (Fingerworks) accumulated over their years running the business, and yes they (Fingerworks) had quite a bit of history since the were founded back in 1998.
1998, a year we were STILL rumoring about Apple tablets... /sigh
I guess I am questioning the need to get everything transcribed into text. Storage is cheap and we can now make full use of video, drawing, handwriting, etc...without regressing 500 years to ascii. People don't want to read text for the most part. They want more detailed information and not one rooted in the Middle Ages. Word processing has kept us back ages. It's time to move on. Sure there's still a huge need, but it's not the future. I think Jobs was on to something when he mused about the reading habits of people and as one who would never again buy a computer typewriter, I only wish that Apple would come out with a tablet which puts the qwerty keyboard where it belongs. pmcd
While at first I was going to agree with your assessment, having given it though I'd have to disagree. Enormous amount of information can be ascertained simply by data mining existing sources of recorded data. Video recordings of patient notes would lessen that potential / future value. Taken you're ideas to the real world (well our real world anyway), what would the web be like if everyone did video blogs, video twitters, video emails, IMs, video based shops and video wikis?
Google or insert you're favorite search engine wouldn't exist.
Yes. I'm clearly taking things to the extreme. My point however is valid, medical information has far more value even in todays modern world if it's in text searchable form. If a technology exists that can reliabaly transcribe the visual (audio actually) account back into text then sure... I could see your idea as a huge time saver. A doctor sitting at his desk recording patient information on hospital forms is an ENORMOUS waste of potential resources.
Hospitals should be doing everything in their power to simplify the task of maintaining patient records WITHOUT compromising on the quality of the patient data OR the patient care... I worked for a world class cancer center for many years (till I myself became a patient) and unfortunately the path to perfect patient notes / data is not an easy trail to blaze.
Lots and lots of politics and lots of very different opinions of what's the best way to tackle the issue. The result is a compromise where very little actually got improved but it changed just enough to require the staff to learn YET ANOTHER system that was just as imperfect as the last.
I have seen enough posts on this forum about all these people praising apple for coming up with this Tablet idea, but then also saying in the same breath that they use a 12" powerbook for mobile use. Sounds to me as if Apple really does need to rethink the MB Air and shrink it to netbook size, and price it competitively.
Well, since there isn't any tablet idea from Apple yet, anyone who is either praising or criticizing it is whiffing (which for non-baseball fans, means a swing and a miss). So your assertion that Apple needs to do anything with their current lineup on that basis is premature at best.
Yes, but he's a professional dickhead historian and you aren't.
I agree though...an $800 10" slate isn't very compelling. Maybe they can pull off something spectacular and it will be interesting to see what happens.
An interesting point, no doubt. But haven't first generation anythings that Apple has released always been a bit pricier than what was expected?
Comments
See, I can be a dickhead too.
Yes, but he's a professional dickhead historian and you aren't.
I agree though...an $800 10" slate isn't very compelling. Maybe they can pull off something spectacular and it will be interesting to see what happens.
If this tablet is supposed to compete (as you say, and i agree) then why is this rumored price point almost the cost of a Macbook? You could buy 2-3 NetBooks for the price point of this.
but you have to think of poor apple and their margins. how can they sell something for less than 60% or more GM's?
unless it has some amazing ability to do things like never before it will be like the original iphone. the fan boys will run out of the store happy and being cheered on by the sales staff. the rest of us will wait it out to be something useful
only thing i can think of is that it will be cheaper than car dvd systems if you have kids old enough to play games and watch Pixar movies
How many times did you want to reach up and touch your Mac's screen to resize or move something
If that's not a porn reference then never. Seriously, it's tiring to hold your hand up to a desktop screen for 20 seconds, let alone a work day.
woah woah woah...
A properly designed software keyboard could easily outperform a physical qwerty.
Remember the history of qwerty... they were designed specifically to be inefficient.
The problem isn't potential speed. Its the fact that most people are too lazy to re-learn anything they consider adequate. That may be a real hurdle, but don't think for a minute that there aren't input solutions that blow physical qwerty away.
Quick, the kool-aid stand is running dry.
Not to mention that on a 10" slate device you've just wiped out half of the usable screen real estate by using a touch keyboard.
True, but, we are talking about power typing, here, by a trained typist.
First, the intelligent virtual kb would reposition itself to always be under the fingers, whatever the hand position
Second, while learning the new virtual kb a semi-transparent heads-up key board could be displayed.
Third, once proficient with the new virtual kb, the heads-up would disappear== no need to look at the keyboard.
Fourth, a simple 4-finger double-tap would display/dismiss the kb heads-up when necessary.
We have artists creating/playing music on an iPhone. Isn't it possible that a clerk/typist could enter a text document... or are they just too set in their ways to learn a new, possibly better way?
Daughter has a Black MacBook but wanted a desktop. I didn't want to spend the money. Found a nice old school iMac Graphite. That's her homework computer, in her room on a desk. Couldn't agree with you more. Old dog works great!
Kids carry around backpacks too. Should apple go after the backpack market?
Steve said it succinctly and he said it best: Apple doesn't make junk.
I have a couple of netbooks and they are junk, I never use them. Instead I use my 12" pbook or my iphone for mobility. I wouldn't want my kid to try to read and work in one of those netbooks, they would need glasses and will have scoliosis by the age of 17. Oh and I hear you say yeah but the iphone is much smaller, well, you hold the iphone up close to you like a book, you don't have to hunch over.
TO PARENTS: Do your selves and your kids a favour and get them a nice imac to do their work at home so they don't have to hunch and squint over a damn netbook and so that they can do some basic work done without needing glasses and spinal surgery. And if you want them to be mobile, on the go, (I wouldn't necessarily want that for a my kid, it's best to live in real world no cyber world for a change) get them an iphone. Don't get suckered in into buying junk that you are going to throw away.
And that's another issue, something isn't really cheap when it's crap, it goes unused, it breaks easily. In order to get any half decent netbook you d have to go with $1000 for a sony which would still be a dog with windows. How is then apple pricing (alleged pricing) of the device expensive?
As for people who don't "get" the apple tablet, you are entitled to your opinion and that's the reason of the forum, but I would suggest you just sit back and enjoy apple reinventing another market, and guess what I foresee that in a couple of year we ll have the, wait for it:
ms tablet HD[/QUOTE]
Remember all the multi touch was invented way back when for the tablet crowd > i think it was NEXT/BE early PIXAR days when the whole multi touch got its patents <<i think >
You think wrong. Multi-touch research has been around since before the original mac came out. Buxton has a nice history up through 1982.
Doctors lawyers and field workers have needed a product like this forever .After 18 months after its out the public will let is know what its best used for just like the touch
Doctors largely have moved back from slates to convertibles. There's a lot of info (most text) on the screen that would be obscured by a software keyboard. 10" isn't all that big for a computer display and there are pages of patient info.
Handwriting recognition...these ARE doctors. I remember a fair bit of complaining by the nurses trying to read the scrawl on the screen. It's lower res than paper so it was near hopeless for some doctors.
Voice recording might work...but then the nurses are stuck doing transcription. Non-optimal.
True, but, we are talking about power typing, here, by a trained typist.
First, the intelligent virtual kb would reposition itself to always be under the fingers, whatever the hand position
10" is 10". You can no more fit a full sized virtual keyboard on it than you can fit a physical keyboard in the same space. Even a condensed one will take up valuable screen real-estate.
Congrats, you've just turned a 10" slate into a 5" convertible without physical feedback or the ability to stand on its own.
Better would be two thumb keyboards in the corners. Faster than T9, usable in slate format, doesn't take that much screen real estate. Downside? Not as fast as a real keyboard.
We have artists creating/playing music on an iPhone. Isn't it possible that a clerk/typist could enter a text document... or are they just too set in their ways to learn a new, possibly better way?
Given the complete lack of success for dvorak and chording keyboards I'd say any expectation that a new typing method will become widespread is unlikely except when there is no other choice (T9). Kids can type pretty fast using T9 but in shorthand...unless you want all your documents to look 1337.
awgthtgtta? atwd bbfn
You think wrong. Multi-touch research has been around since before the original mac came out. Buxton has a nice history up through 1982.
Doctors largely have moved back from slates to convertibles. There's a lot of info (most text) on the screen that would be obscured by a software keyboard. 10" isn't all that big for a computer display and there are pages of patient info.
Handwriting recognition...these ARE doctors. I remember a fair bit of complaining by the nurses trying to read the scrawl on the screen. It's lower res than paper so it was near hopeless for some doctors.
Voice recording might work...but then the nurses are stuck doing transcription. Non-optimal.
Interesting. What is this obsession with getting things into typewriter form? You are assuming that science will continue to stay in the background and that people will continue to work with minimal mathematical tools. It's a sad day when a simple matrix/spreadsheet is considered an advanced tool. The typewriter is simply not the right tool for intricate work nor is it the proper tool for scientific communication. There is no need to obsess with handwriting recognition to text. Handwriting intermingled with pictures, drawing, video, etc...doesn't have to be turned into something which Microsoft Word can deal with. It is what it is. Ask any student in science whether or not a tablet is useful. The only reason they aren't popular is price.
I guess I am questioning the need to get everything transcribed into text. Storage is cheap and we can now make full use of video, drawing, handwriting, etc...without regressing 500 years to ascii. People don't want to read text for the most part. They want more detailed information and not one rooted in the Middle Ages. Word processing has kept us back ages. It's time to move on. Sure there's still a huge need, but it's not the future. I think Jobs was on to something when he mused about the reading habits of people and as one who would never again buy a computer typewriter, I only wish that Apple would come out with a tablet which puts the qwerty keyboard where it belongs.
pmcd
You think wrong. Multi-touch research has been around since before the original mac came out. Buxton has a nice history up through 1982.
Doctors largely have moved back from slates to convertibles. There's a lot of info (most text) on the screen that would be obscured by a software keyboard. 10" isn't all that big for a computer display and there are pages of patient info.
Handwriting recognition...these ARE doctors. I remember a fair bit of complaining by the nurses trying to read the scrawl on the screen. It's lower res than paper so it was near hopeless for some doctors.
Voice recording might work...but then the nurses are stuck doing transcription. Non-optimal.
The keyboard would be translucent and would collapse at will.
FOR a doctor to have world wide info available while treating a patient including > X-rays > Complete records > and have info emailed right to the device are great things to have . In a 9x6 lab coat size . Right now i can't help to think your correct YET the doctors will adjust to the device ,
damn man can you be any more gutless? You said something, stick to what you said. A few minutes down the line and you start the back stepping? It's one thing to make foolish predictions, but to not stand by them a few minutes down the line? ...tstsststst....
Somehow you got this fixation that since apple included a camera in the nano they are catering to the flip crowd and kids, and somehow they should release a kids tablet, or a kids priced tablets to compete with netbooks (although the ipod touch serves that purpose excellently, being also a gaming device which the netbooks are not), or an apple netbook, or kids apple netbook -or whatever you mean- and somehow make it apple class yet dirt cheap too (much like sony say with their $1200 netbooks yet at $300 from apple), and how the table will be a failure, and all this nonsensical crap is ringing in you head and getting poured out in these forums, but at least stand by this crap!!!
And because you seem to be patently obtuse or patently misconstruing what others are saying, where the heck did I trash the zune? I made an ironic remark in terms of it being a belated clone, which was my whole case, how apple will again innovate and others will follow.
The iPod touch is not a competitor to a Netbook. I hate to disagree with you but you can't do a lot of things on the touch that you can do on a net book (i.e. word processing, spread sheets, look at flash-based web media, upload any app/game you currently use on a PC). Kids (6-12) year olds lets say, seem to be flocking to these because the device is their size, it's got enough power for just about anything they would need to do and they are super cheap so the parents don't feel like it's a waste of money. Even Schools now are using Netbooks in class, and providing them for kids to use.
I also don't think "stud" was inferring that Apple create something that size for kids. I think he was suggesting that Apple compete with the netbook both in size and price. We obviously know if Apple made a Netbook it would rock, but it this economy and world we live in, it's a good idea to be close to market value. Some people on this forum said it better, but the iPhone when it first came out was a niche device and didn't gain popularity until it was priced to compete with other smartphones out there. Same thing with the iPod. it first couple generations were popular but it wasn't untill the iPod was priced to suit, (iPod Mini, Nano and Shuffle) that made apple the exclusive company for portable media it is today.
I have seen enough posts on this forum about all these people praising apple for coming up with this Tablet idea, but then also saying in the same breath that they use a 12" powerbook for mobile use. Sounds to me as if Apple really does need to rethink the MB Air and shrink it to netbook size, and price it competitively.
I think the real problem MS has is that none of their products can be discussed in a coffe clatch. meaning nothing from microsoft is a household word, and Apple as a certain knack for making products that even my grandma has heard of. And they work.
FOR a doctor to have world wide info available while treating a patient including > X-rays > Complete records > and have info emailed right to the device are great things to have . In a 9x6 lab coat size . Right now i can't help to think your correct YET the doctors will adjust to the device ,
They have that right now in a smallish convertible tablet. Not lab coat sized but they are in their own offices.
Voice recording might work...but then the nurses are stuck doing transcription. Non-optimal.
Nurses don't do transcription, that's what transcription services are for.
I guess I am questioning the need to get everything transcribed into text. Storage is cheap and we can now make full use of video, drawing, handwriting, etc...without regressing 500 years to ascii. People don't want to read text for the most part. They want more detailed information and not one rooted in the Middle Ages. Word processing has kept us back ages. It's time to move on. Sure there's still a huge need, but it's not the future. I think Jobs was on to something when he mused about the reading habits of people and as one who would never again buy a computer typewriter, I only wish that Apple would come out with a tablet which puts the qwerty keyboard where it belongs.
Well, in terms of medical/patient information, most hospital information systems aren't really set up at this point to handle drawings and handwritten notes. (Thus the need for transcription services.)
But, I would suggest that people not wanting to read text is more likely to regress us 1000 years to the Dark Ages. Videos are for the intellectually lazy and don't express ideas as precisely and in as much detail as is possible in text (unless it's a video of someone reading text, but reading it yourself is still better). The "printed" word isn't holding anyone back, unless they are illiterate. Somehow, I just don't think On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life would have had quite the same impact as a 3 minute YouTube video uploaded by Chuckie D.
(OK, I'm overstating the case. Video is useful in cases where particular physical actions need to be demonstrated, but these are not generally the sorts of things demanding of intellectual rigor, unless you are in physics class. But, ASCII? I mean, not even Windows depends on ASCII any longer? And, do you really want to be the guy watching TV in the Hulu commercial? Jobs didn't say that it was a good thing people don't read anymore. He didn't say he doesn't read anymore.)
Which is not to say that a tablet that would facilitate handwritten notes and drawings would not be a good thing. These are surely useful, even if primarily for personal use, or as, for example, electronic lab notes. The aforementioned Chuckie D. made extensive use of handwritten notes and drawings (his own and those of others). But, civilization is built on "text", and the decline of the latter will lead to much the same for the former.
(Not to mention text being much more easily searched, of course. Again, these other forms of expressing ideas are useful, but they are not a replacement for text.)
Interesting. What is this obsession with getting things into typewriter form? You are assuming that science will continue to stay in the background and that people will continue to work with minimal mathematical tools. It's a sad day when a simple matrix/spreadsheet is considered an advanced tool. The typewriter is simply not the right tool for intricate work nor is it the proper tool for scientific communication.
Yes, because there is no text in a scientific publication.
"A simple spreadsheet" like excel is a very powerful tool given you can program it with special functions. I can get a linear, quadratic or other solvers as an excel addon.
There is no need to obsess with handwriting recognition to text. Handwriting intermingled with pictures, drawing, video, etc...doesn't have to be turned into something which Microsoft Word can deal with. It is what it is. Ask any student in science whether or not a tablet is useful. The only reason they aren't popular is price.
Given I work in a research institution and our budget for personal work PCs provides me a Mac Pro with 30" ACD and a 17" MBP (no not both bought in one year), I can say that price is not a barrier to entry. I also have 3 tablets. One rugged slate, one Panasonic convertible and one Motion Computing one.
Handwriting is not useful. I have various notes taken in ink (on my various tablets, Cross Pad, Seiko SmartPad and ThinkNote) and they are not searchable without either OCR or my manually tagging them.
I cannot easily convert them from one form to another, cut and paste them or manipulate them except as virtual ink on a virtual page unless I OCR. Nice for diagrams but not nice for text.
Formulas are not in any useful form. It's not like I can take a handwritten formula and drop it in mathematica or matlab.
I guess I am questioning the need to get everything transcribed into text. Storage is cheap and we can now make full use of video, drawing, handwriting, etc...without regressing 500 years to ascii. People don't want to read text for the most part. They want more detailed information and not one rooted in the Middle Ages.
Try meta-tagging videos, drawings, etc to be as arbitrarily searchable as a text. We've been working with large amounts of imagery and meta data is difficult to get accurately entered by users. The problem isn't finding SOMETHING from the metatags. If the library is big enough there's usually something tagged. The problem is find the something you wanted or not missing the something that would be important to you.
Contrast this with asking your information specialist to do a literature search for related journal articles.
Word processing has kept us back ages.
Yes, none of my textbooks or science journals have any text. And video taped lectures (which I have a small collection) are very useful as reference material and quick to access new or needed information.
Or maybe one of those archaic text based scientific papers that we have on-line is more compact, easier to use and more generally useful?
Nah.
It's time to move on. Sure there's still a huge need, but it's not the future. I think Jobs was on to something when he mused about the reading habits of people
Scientists read. It's one of those required skills...
and as one who would never again buy a computer typewriter,
Yes, because we're carrying on this exchange of opinions via youtube.
Remember all the multi touch was invented way back when for the tablet crowd > i think it was NEXT/BE early PIXAR days when the whole multi touch got its patents.
NeXT? Be?!?!? Pixar lol ---
Perhaps you might be thing to think of Fingerworks?
One of the many acquisitions Apple has made over the years that kinda slid under the radar and one that turned out to be a very wise one given the IP (patents) they (Fingerworks) accumulated over their years running the business, and yes they (Fingerworks) had quite a bit of history since the were founded back in 1998.
1998, a year we were STILL rumoring about Apple tablets... /sigh
Dave
I guess I am questioning the need to get everything transcribed into text. Storage is cheap and we can now make full use of video, drawing, handwriting, etc...without regressing 500 years to ascii. People don't want to read text for the most part. They want more detailed information and not one rooted in the Middle Ages. Word processing has kept us back ages. It's time to move on. Sure there's still a huge need, but it's not the future. I think Jobs was on to something when he mused about the reading habits of people and as one who would never again buy a computer typewriter, I only wish that Apple would come out with a tablet which puts the qwerty keyboard where it belongs. pmcd
While at first I was going to agree with your assessment, having given it though I'd have to disagree. Enormous amount of information can be ascertained simply by data mining existing sources of recorded data. Video recordings of patient notes would lessen that potential / future value. Taken you're ideas to the real world (well our real world anyway), what would the web be like if everyone did video blogs, video twitters, video emails, IMs, video based shops and video wikis?
Google or insert you're favorite search engine wouldn't exist.
Yes. I'm clearly taking things to the extreme. My point however is valid, medical information has far more value even in todays modern world if it's in text searchable form. If a technology exists that can reliabaly transcribe the visual (audio actually) account back into text then sure... I could see your idea as a huge time saver. A doctor sitting at his desk recording patient information on hospital forms is an ENORMOUS waste of potential resources.
Hospitals should be doing everything in their power to simplify the task of maintaining patient records WITHOUT compromising on the quality of the patient data OR the patient care... I worked for a world class cancer center for many years (till I myself became a patient)
Lots and lots of politics and lots of very different opinions of what's the best way to tackle the issue. The result is a compromise where very little actually got improved but it changed just enough to require the staff to learn YET ANOTHER system that was just as imperfect as the last.
Dave
Yes, but he's a professional dickhead historian and you aren't.
Even more rude.
I have seen enough posts on this forum about all these people praising apple for coming up with this Tablet idea, but then also saying in the same breath that they use a 12" powerbook for mobile use. Sounds to me as if Apple really does need to rethink the MB Air and shrink it to netbook size, and price it competitively.
Well, since there isn't any tablet idea from Apple yet, anyone who is either praising or criticizing it is whiffing (which for non-baseball fans, means a swing and a miss). So your assertion that Apple needs to do anything with their current lineup on that basis is premature at best.
Yes, but he's a professional dickhead historian and you aren't.
I agree though...an $800 10" slate isn't very compelling. Maybe they can pull off something spectacular and it will be interesting to see what happens.
An interesting point, no doubt. But haven't first generation anythings that Apple has released always been a bit pricier than what was expected?