To me it seems unlikely that iPhone or iPod Touch had that much of a significant impact on Nintendo's portable sales. Another example of Apple cheer-leading by AI.
What does seem likely is that we are 1) in a recession 2) somewhat stale hardware 3) everybody and their brother already has a Ds. Sure some impact from the touch, but I have yet to any kid dropping the Ds for the games on the Touch.
I've even asked my 9-yr old about the Touch, and he said it was too hard to control compared his Ds or PSP.
Thoughts?
I beg to differ. As someone who works with teens, the iPT & iPhone are hot. They know it is much more capable, and the game cost and ease of purchase (along with Jailbreaking and unfortunately pirating), make them so.
The reality is that having magnitudes greater number of developers making much cheaper software trumps all the DS platform developers in one blow.
For the lowest age range, parents (myself included) may buy edutainment software with better graphics and education value than buying a LeapPad below the DS. I would imagine their sales took a big hit too.
The best games have nothing to do with it. For instance, Mac may have the best OS, but it certainly isn't the best seller.
Blame that on Mac being close minded, im sure it would have an higher OS percentage if they made the OS available to all (see Windows) but then they wouldnt be able to inflate prices for their hardware anymore...go figure.
And the BEST GAMES have plenty to do with it. They move consoles simple as that. the original Xbox would have been a total flop if it were not for Halo and Halo 2...you had to buy the console or wait 2 years for it come out on PC. These games usually sell beyond 7-8 million copies (x 49.99 = a lot). Microsoft knows this and is heavily hyping the new Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. It sold over 7 million on its 360 console (12 million over all consoles including PC) Most of these games (hell even handheld games like Gran Turismo) have a year plus incubation period, usually 2 years on average. Most games for the App Store are coughed out in less than a month, and quite a few are clones of each other but with different names (popular vamipre game now has literally 10 copies with different concepts, but all play exactly the same)
The best games is enough incentive to induce people to go out and buy a new platform, but sometimes that extra push is needed to get people over to your camp (hi blu-ray). Right now, the touch has zero games i would recommend as a gamer, but if you were selling me on it based on the features of what the ipod can do yes id get one, the games are a side effect of it being very capable but being far from being there.
This forum severely underestimates just what cultural phenomena gaming actually is, and why the iPhone/iPod touch and Apple cannot unseat that with their current approach. Admittedly gamers themselves find it hard to understand Apple culture as well.
Games these days have midnight launches, and certain games garner very long lines on release day. I mean, look at these pictures from Dragon Quest IX's launch in Japan:
The iPhone and iPod touch can only do that on the merit of their own hardware, not any particular app and certainly not any game on the App Store today. The comparisons are a total wash. The game's sold 4 Million copies already, by the way (and is the fifth game on the system to pass that mark). I wonder when the iPhone and iPod touch will have garnered that many sales in Japan alone.
I think my only mistake was in taking the time to give you a serious answer. \
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno
In my experience people resort to "common sense" exactly when they can't coherently explain their argument.
Still elitist, imho.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno
Common sense implies that there are a lot of people thinking the same way (security in numbers, although usually not proved as well that the numbers are indeed on their side)
I find it interesting that in two tries: An academic (your word, not mine) not only shows an elitist attitude, even while apologizing for said attitude.
Maybe I have to either "raise my game or dumb it down" so you will "get it". Your opinion, and mine as well, is just that ... an opinion. To suggest that either one has to be more correct, based solely on Academic background is , not only wrong, but is, in fact, elitist. IMHO!
Perhaps more importantly, the fact that you use more words than me does not, by itself, make it a "more" serious answer. .... Are we "on the same page" now?
The obvious problem here is that the article further down doesn't put anything said in the headline into perspective, it reinforces only the claims made previously. So what's your point besides your thinly veiled insults? Is this the old ad hominem tactic to discredit the message by trying to discredit the messenger?
"Those losses, in part, were attributed to increased competition, including Apple's iPhone." .... wouldn't exactly call that reinforcement.
I guess we see only what we want to see. In any case, The floor is yours ... I've got to go.
It makes sense to me that Apple is putting a dent in Nintendo's bottom line. I have four kids aged 4, 8, 10, and 14 years old. The oldest three all have Nintendo DS/DSi machines with a few games each.
All 4 four kids haven't touched their Nintendo machines (for more than a few minutes here or there) in months now. They all fight for use of my iPhone.
Games on the APP store scale very well in terms of age applicability. My littlest plays Dora and Preschool games; the middle two play Stick wars, The Game of Life and Skeeball; and the oldest plays Dungeon Hunter and Undercroft.
The price of these games range from Free --> $0.99 --> $4.99. Compared to $20 to $40 for a new Nintendo DS game. That's a big difference when I buy my kid a $35 game and he plays for a week before he's "bored". For that $35 bucks I could easily buy 10 games on the App Store and keep them entertained for weeks.
This christmas, I'm seriously considering picking up iPod Touches for the 3 oldest kids and giving away their Nintendo DS's to charity (they seriously don't use them anymore). For only $20 more, the Touch is a much better bargain than the Nintendo DSi.
I beg to differ. As someone who works with teens, the iPT & iPhone are hot. They know it is much more capable, and the game cost and ease of purchase (along with Jailbreaking and unfortunately pirating), make them so.
The reality is that having magnitudes greater number of developers making much cheaper software trumps all the DS platform developers in one blow.
For the lowest age range, parents (myself included) may buy edutainment software with better graphics and education value than buying a LeapPad below the DS. I would imagine their sales took a big hit too.
Why do you beg to differ? Look, nobody's saying the iPhone or Touch isn't wildly successful, I'm just saying it doesn't really significantly compete with dedicated portable gaming systems. No matter how many cheap developers are out there, until the content is comparable to the Ds & PSP. Also, how many 4-10 year olds are jailbreaking and pirating software? I agree that more teens may want a iPhone or Touch than a Ds, but they are not buying it solely for gaming, gaming is a bonus.
I look at this comparison similar to console vs PC Gaming. There are advantages in both directions, but clearly the dedicated PC can do much more, and with better graphics. But the consoles will always be more successful gaming platform, because that what they do.
I'm just saying that its a weak argument that the iPhone or Touch are cutting into Nintendo's sales because of gaming. Now I suppose in this economy people have less disposable income, therefore they are buying less gaming products. But maybe they can justify a product that's a phone, internet, calender, etc, etc device. It's an awesome device that can do many things, I just don't think its a great portable gaming device.
Blame that on Mac being close minded, im sure it would have an higher OS percentage if they made the OS available to all (see Windows) but then they wouldnt be able to inflate prices for their hardware anymore...go figure.
And the BEST GAMES have plenty to do with it.These games usually sell beyond 7-8 million copies (x 49.99 = a lot). Microsoft knows this and is heavily hyping the new Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. It sold over 7 million
I'm willing to bet the cellphone market is bigger than the gaming consul market and if you check windows software prices against Mac software prices you might not use the word inflated as casually.
This forum severely underestimates just what cultural phenomena gaming actually is, and why the iPhone/iPod touch and Apple cannot unseat that with their current approach. Admittedly gamers themselves find it hard to understand Apple culture as well.
Games these days have midnight launches, and certain games garner very long lines on release day. I mean, look at these pictures from Dragon Quest IX's launch in Japan:
The iPhone and iPod touch can only do that on the merit of their own hardware, not any particular app and certainly not any game on the App Store today. The comparisons are a total wash. The game's sold 4 Million copies already, by the way (and is the fifth game on the system to pass that mark). I wonder when the iPhone and iPod touch will have garnered that many sales in Japan alone.
LETS talk in 18 months because apple has bypassed the 50 bucks a pop game
i agree with you except the race to the bottom will bring a cheap halo a cheap cod
and appl sells devices not games so they can charge cost all day
I'm willing to bet the cellphone market is bigger than the gaming consul market and if you check windows software prices against Mac software prices you might not use the word inflated as casually.
You know, this has nothing to do with your post, but while that statistic is mentioned, I find it interesting that Nintendo has sold more DS systems in Japan than there are Softbank subscribers, the iPhone's carrier in Japan.
Makes no sense not to enter the console market with the ATV.
IT's a small risk, high reward scenario. GAmes are sold on the app store just like with the iPHone/Touch. ATV is already in stores. Probably has enough power to do iPHOne games or if not upgrade it a bit. That shouldn't be difficult to do and keep the same pricepoint given it is still $230 after a few years.
It makes sense to me that Apple is putting a dent in Nintendo's bottom line. I have four kids aged 4, 8, 10, and 14 years old. The oldest three all have Nintendo DS/DSi machines with a few games each.
All 4 four kids haven't touched their Nintendo machines (for more than a few minutes here or there) in months now. They all fight for use of my iPhone.
Games on the APP store scale very well in terms of age applicability. My littlest plays Dora and Preschool games; the middle two play Stick wars, The Game of Life and Skeeball; and the oldest plays Dungeon Hunter and Undercroft.
The price of these games range from Free --> $0.99 --> $4.99. Compared to $20 to $40 for a new Nintendo DS game. That's a big difference when I buy my kid a $35 game and he plays for a week before he's "bored". For that $35 bucks I could easily buy 10 games on the App Store and keep them entertained for weeks.
This christmas, I'm seriously considering picking up iPod Touches for the 3 oldest kids and giving away their Nintendo DS's to charity (they seriously don't use them anymore). For only $20 more, the Touch is a much better bargain than the Nintendo DSi.
Exactly - In fact I just bought my Kids - 5 and 7 - an ipod touch. I was tired of giving them my iPhone!
I briefly considered a DS since my oldest had mentioned it before, but I already have money invested in iPhone games. Why start over and spend more on a DS games. He hasn't complained one bit since I got it. And all my games popped right into the touch. Yes many DS games have more depth at this time, but I think that will change.
I am one person who two years ago would have bought a DS. I did not. I bought an iPod Touch. The article has merit.
yeah nice try AI. every other site reporting this doesn't mention a word about apple, they talk about currency exchange and other factors contributing to falling profits.
the ipod touch / iphone and ds have such an incredibly different price point and feature set that it's hard to argue that they compete directly.
the iphone has no physical buttons, making it incapable of anything beyond 10-second gaming.
did you read the reuters article that AI linked to? Here is the extract mentioned iphone. so you're right and so is AI - now let's play nice :-)
Nintendo's portable game machine, the DS, also faces increasing competition from Apple Inc's (AAPL.O) iPhone, which has become a popular platform for handheld games. And like other Japanese exporters, Nintendo has been hit by the stronger yen JPY=, which eats into the value of overseas profits.
Comments
iPhone and iPod touch have nothing to do with it!!!!
I still game more on my DS than iPhone. Actually, I ONLY game on my DS. The DS has the BEST games of any handheld.
The best games have nothing to do with it. For instance, Mac may have the best OS, but it certainly isn't the best seller.
Plus it would be nice to see an American company buying up Asia for a change?
To me it seems unlikely that iPhone or iPod Touch had that much of a significant impact on Nintendo's portable sales. Another example of Apple cheer-leading by AI.
What does seem likely is that we are 1) in a recession 2) somewhat stale hardware 3) everybody and their brother already has a Ds. Sure some impact from the touch, but I have yet to any kid dropping the Ds for the games on the Touch.
I've even asked my 9-yr old about the Touch, and he said it was too hard to control compared his Ds or PSP.
Thoughts?
I beg to differ. As someone who works with teens, the iPT & iPhone are hot. They know it is much more capable, and the game cost and ease of purchase (along with Jailbreaking and unfortunately pirating), make them so.
The reality is that having magnitudes greater number of developers making much cheaper software trumps all the DS platform developers in one blow.
For the lowest age range, parents (myself included) may buy edutainment software with better graphics and education value than buying a LeapPad below the DS. I would imagine their sales took a big hit too.
LeapFrog over the past year, holding pretty flat
The best games have nothing to do with it. For instance, Mac may have the best OS, but it certainly isn't the best seller.
Blame that on Mac being close minded, im sure it would have an higher OS percentage if they made the OS available to all (see Windows) but then they wouldnt be able to inflate prices for their hardware anymore...go figure.
And the BEST GAMES have plenty to do with it. They move consoles simple as that. the original Xbox would have been a total flop if it were not for Halo and Halo 2...you had to buy the console or wait 2 years for it come out on PC. These games usually sell beyond 7-8 million copies (x 49.99 = a lot). Microsoft knows this and is heavily hyping the new Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. It sold over 7 million on its 360 console (12 million over all consoles including PC) Most of these games (hell even handheld games like Gran Turismo) have a year plus incubation period, usually 2 years on average. Most games for the App Store are coughed out in less than a month, and quite a few are clones of each other but with different names (popular vamipre game now has literally 10 copies with different concepts, but all play exactly the same)
The best games is enough incentive to induce people to go out and buy a new platform, but sometimes that extra push is needed to get people over to your camp (hi blu-ray). Right now, the touch has zero games i would recommend as a gamer, but if you were selling me on it based on the features of what the ipod can do yes id get one, the games are a side effect of it being very capable but being far from being there.
Games these days have midnight launches, and certain games garner very long lines on release day. I mean, look at these pictures from Dragon Quest IX's launch in Japan:
The iPhone and iPod touch can only do that on the merit of their own hardware, not any particular app and certainly not any game on the App Store today. The comparisons are a total wash. The game's sold 4 Million copies already, by the way (and is the fifth game on the system to pass that mark). I wonder when the iPhone and iPod touch will have garnered that many sales in Japan alone.
"DSi LL "
Nice catchy name...
Maybe it stands for Lot Larger (Pixels & chunky graphics)
I think my only mistake was in taking the time to give you a serious answer.
In my experience people resort to "common sense" exactly when they can't coherently explain their argument.
Still elitist, imho.
Common sense implies that there are a lot of people thinking the same way (security in numbers, although usually not proved as well that the numbers are indeed on their side)
I find it interesting that in two tries: An academic (your word, not mine) not only shows an elitist attitude, even while apologizing for said attitude.
Maybe I have to either "raise my game or dumb it down" so you will "get it". Your opinion, and mine as well, is just that ... an opinion. To suggest that either one has to be more correct, based solely on Academic background is , not only wrong, but is, in fact, elitist. IMHO!
Perhaps more importantly, the fact that you use more words than me does not, by itself, make it a "more" serious answer. .... Are we "on the same page" now?
Maybe it stands for Lot Larger (Pixels & chunky graphics)
Really now.
The obvious problem here is that the article further down doesn't put anything said in the headline into perspective, it reinforces only the claims made previously. So what's your point besides your thinly veiled insults? Is this the old ad hominem tactic to discredit the message by trying to discredit the messenger?
"Those losses, in part, were attributed to increased competition, including Apple's iPhone." .... wouldn't exactly call that reinforcement.
I guess we see only what we want to see. In any case, The floor is yours ... I've got to go.
All 4 four kids haven't touched their Nintendo machines (for more than a few minutes here or there) in months now. They all fight for use of my iPhone.
Games on the APP store scale very well in terms of age applicability. My littlest plays Dora and Preschool games; the middle two play Stick wars, The Game of Life and Skeeball; and the oldest plays Dungeon Hunter and Undercroft.
The price of these games range from Free --> $0.99 --> $4.99. Compared to $20 to $40 for a new Nintendo DS game. That's a big difference when I buy my kid a $35 game and he plays for a week before he's "bored". For that $35 bucks I could easily buy 10 games on the App Store and keep them entertained for weeks.
This christmas, I'm seriously considering picking up iPod Touches for the 3 oldest kids and giving away their Nintendo DS's to charity (they seriously don't use them anymore). For only $20 more, the Touch is a much better bargain than the Nintendo DSi.
I beg to differ. As someone who works with teens, the iPT & iPhone are hot. They know it is much more capable, and the game cost and ease of purchase (along with Jailbreaking and unfortunately pirating), make them so.
The reality is that having magnitudes greater number of developers making much cheaper software trumps all the DS platform developers in one blow.
For the lowest age range, parents (myself included) may buy edutainment software with better graphics and education value than buying a LeapPad below the DS. I would imagine their sales took a big hit too.
LeapFrog over the past year, holding pretty flat
Why do you beg to differ? Look, nobody's saying the iPhone or Touch isn't wildly successful, I'm just saying it doesn't really significantly compete with dedicated portable gaming systems. No matter how many cheap developers are out there, until the content is comparable to the Ds & PSP. Also, how many 4-10 year olds are jailbreaking and pirating software? I agree that more teens may want a iPhone or Touch than a Ds, but they are not buying it solely for gaming, gaming is a bonus.
I look at this comparison similar to console vs PC Gaming. There are advantages in both directions, but clearly the dedicated PC can do much more, and with better graphics. But the consoles will always be more successful gaming platform, because that what they do.
I'm just saying that its a weak argument that the iPhone or Touch are cutting into Nintendo's sales because of gaming. Now I suppose in this economy people have less disposable income, therefore they are buying less gaming products. But maybe they can justify a product that's a phone, internet, calender, etc, etc device. It's an awesome device that can do many things, I just don't think its a great portable gaming device.
Blame that on Mac being close minded, im sure it would have an higher OS percentage if they made the OS available to all (see Windows) but then they wouldnt be able to inflate prices for their hardware anymore...go figure.
And the BEST GAMES have plenty to do with it.These games usually sell beyond 7-8 million copies (x 49.99 = a lot). Microsoft knows this and is heavily hyping the new Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. It sold over 7 million
I'm willing to bet the cellphone market is bigger than the gaming consul market and if you check windows software prices against Mac software prices you might not use the word inflated as casually.
This forum severely underestimates just what cultural phenomena gaming actually is, and why the iPhone/iPod touch and Apple cannot unseat that with their current approach. Admittedly gamers themselves find it hard to understand Apple culture as well.
Games these days have midnight launches, and certain games garner very long lines on release day. I mean, look at these pictures from Dragon Quest IX's launch in Japan:
The iPhone and iPod touch can only do that on the merit of their own hardware, not any particular app and certainly not any game on the App Store today. The comparisons are a total wash. The game's sold 4 Million copies already, by the way (and is the fifth game on the system to pass that mark). I wonder when the iPhone and iPod touch will have garnered that many sales in Japan alone.
LETS talk in 18 months because apple has bypassed the 50 bucks a pop game
i agree with you except the race to the bottom will bring a cheap halo a cheap cod
and appl sells devices not games so they can charge cost all day
right now apple games are a joke
soon this will change
peace
9
I'm willing to bet the cellphone market is bigger than the gaming consul market and if you check windows software prices against Mac software prices you might not use the word inflated as casually.
You know, this has nothing to do with your post, but while that statistic is mentioned, I find it interesting that Nintendo has sold more DS systems in Japan than there are Softbank subscribers, the iPhone's carrier in Japan.
Makes no sense not to enter the console market with the ATV.
IT's a small risk, high reward scenario. GAmes are sold on the app store just like with the iPHone/Touch. ATV is already in stores. Probably has enough power to do iPHOne games or if not upgrade it a bit. That shouldn't be difficult to do and keep the same pricepoint given it is still $230 after a few years.
Only hurdle is what do you use for a controller?
An iPod Touch or Iphone!
It makes sense to me that Apple is putting a dent in Nintendo's bottom line. I have four kids aged 4, 8, 10, and 14 years old. The oldest three all have Nintendo DS/DSi machines with a few games each.
All 4 four kids haven't touched their Nintendo machines (for more than a few minutes here or there) in months now. They all fight for use of my iPhone.
Games on the APP store scale very well in terms of age applicability. My littlest plays Dora and Preschool games; the middle two play Stick wars, The Game of Life and Skeeball; and the oldest plays Dungeon Hunter and Undercroft.
The price of these games range from Free --> $0.99 --> $4.99. Compared to $20 to $40 for a new Nintendo DS game. That's a big difference when I buy my kid a $35 game and he plays for a week before he's "bored". For that $35 bucks I could easily buy 10 games on the App Store and keep them entertained for weeks.
This christmas, I'm seriously considering picking up iPod Touches for the 3 oldest kids and giving away their Nintendo DS's to charity (they seriously don't use them anymore). For only $20 more, the Touch is a much better bargain than the Nintendo DSi.
Exactly - In fact I just bought my Kids - 5 and 7 - an ipod touch. I was tired of giving them my iPhone!
I briefly considered a DS since my oldest had mentioned it before, but I already have money invested in iPhone games. Why start over and spend more on a DS games. He hasn't complained one bit since I got it. And all my games popped right into the touch. Yes many DS games have more depth at this time, but I think that will change.
I am one person who two years ago would have bought a DS. I did not. I bought an iPod Touch. The article has merit.
The only thing I regret is not buying two!
Nintendo has needed to be purchased by Apple for at least two console generations now. Very compatible corporate philosophies.
Plus it would be nice to see an American company buying up Asia for a change?
It's illegal under Japanese law for a foreign company to own a domestic.
yeah nice try AI. every other site reporting this doesn't mention a word about apple, they talk about currency exchange and other factors contributing to falling profits.
the ipod touch / iphone and ds have such an incredibly different price point and feature set that it's hard to argue that they compete directly.
the iphone has no physical buttons, making it incapable of anything beyond 10-second gaming.
did you read the reuters article that AI linked to? Here is the extract mentioned iphone. so you're right and so is AI - now let's play nice :-)
Nintendo's portable game machine, the DS, also faces increasing competition from Apple Inc's (AAPL.O) iPhone, which has become a popular platform for handheld games. And like other Japanese exporters, Nintendo has been hit by the stronger yen JPY=, which eats into the value of overseas profits.