Well I wanted to throw this thought out since I haven't seen anyone mention it, but some time in 2009 (I believe), there was an AI article detailing an Apple patent that indicated the ability for a device to detect touch input not only through the front/top of a device, but also the bottom/rear of the device.
When I first saw the patent, I thought it was laughingly implausible because, after all, how could you accurately touch control something on a screen/computer's rear without actually flipping it over and looking at it? Then I saw this incredible-looking transparent OLED 14" screen from Samsung at CES 2010. It seriously looks like something out of Star Trek or Minority Report, where the graphical elements pop up on the transparent screen, but you can still see through it.
That got me thinking then, isn't it possible that either with the upcoming tablet, or some future iteration of it, that we may see the use a transparent screen with touch sensing capabilities on BOTH sides of the device, allowing for far more gestures and touch controls then what is currently capable with single-sided touch panels? With transparency in play, you'd be able to see both your fingers on the rear along with the touch controls that you intend to activate from the rear.
Then add to that, the Apple patent that showed a portable device that could slide in and out of a desktop-class screen/computer like a docking station, and all of a sudden you have the makings of not just a tablet, but a whole new device pairing that is both ultra-portable and fully-functional. So maybe this is years off in the future, but it's no longer impossible to imagine on-the-go computing in a tablet format taking off in a big way.
I remember the patent very well. We did a lot of speculation on what it could mean. It's an interesting concept. With multitouch tech, it could work pretty well even without seeing what you're doing.
I've just practiced some multiple finger gestures on the back of a notebook I keep here for my computer use, and it seemed pretty easy to do. After all, multitouch doesn't require you to hit any particular spot. So you can swipe anywhere on the back and it would work. Much better than actual buttons. It would match much better with the Apple philosophy of the fewer buttons the better. I read somewhere just a couple of days ago why Apple has few buttons on the phone and likely on the tablet. It said that Jobs hates buttons. He wears a turtleneck and sneakers - no buttons. The guy might have something there!
Anyway, I don't think a transparent tablet is in the works because where would you put the electronics? I have an old small LCD 3" screen portable Tv from Magnavox. It must be almost 20 years old. The screen can be hinged up 90 degrees. You can see through the back that way. It's neat, but the screen is all washed out like that, and you can see a fuzzy image of the background. Very distracting, and the color is all off across the screen.
So while a transparent screen is cool, it's not very useful.
1) This is a rumour, and should be taken with a grain of salt.
2) The Nano has a very low-grade 0.3Mpx video camera that can?t do still shots.
3) The Nano is clearly being put against the Flip video cameras.
4) The Touch doesn?t have a camera yet it?s more expensive than the Nano.
We know the real reason why the Touch has no camera. Don't believe Job's reason. It's pretty obvious that Apple intended for one to be installed. We should see it before too long.
And I'm wondering if all the tablet speculation is on the money. It seems as though Apple will be having more than one new product to introduce this month.
We know the real reason why the Touch has no camera. Don't believe Job's reason. It's pretty obvious that Apple intended for one to be installed. We should see it before too long.
And I'm wondering if all the tablet speculation is on the money. It seems as though Apple will be having more than one new product to introduce this month.
I don?t know the real reason, I only know there is evidence that the Touch was slated to get a camera. I don?t think it?s logical to assume they canned the idea at the last minute so it wouldn?t hurt Nano or iPhone sales. I?d say some technical issue was involved.
Which speculation about the tablet? It?s all over the place.
I do think we?ll get more than one new product. I think the order will be 2009 and holiday stats, iPhone v4.0 demo, new iPhone OS SDK, informed of new US carriers coming soon, and Tablet. They can?t give up the AppleTV and it?s long overdue for a HW revamping but I?m not sure that is the right venue. Perhaps with the next iPhone release or with new ACDs which are also long overdue. How much can we expect in one event? Hopefully a lot The iPhone and AppleTV were shown off together back in January 2007.
Hey melgross. Best post of this thread. Too many are seeing this as the ultimate biz conferencing tool. I immediately saw it as a Skype tool, or iChat tool (finally), or some other way to connect people socially. Why would Apple make this a biz tool when they are not "really" in the biz world in the first place. This tablet, combined with a 3G radio, some wifi (the Nokia N800/N810 series had these capabilities), and the ability to tether would lend itself to a pretty potent device. I bought a 15 inch MBP but realized it was too small after having a 17 inch MBP so I gave it to my daughter. She got all of her friends on Skype, AIM, AOL, etc... and there is nothing but girlish giggling coming out of her room. A table with a cam would be a boon for people such as me who travels often, has a handful of sim cards to put in my legally unlocked iPhone (had to throw that in. ), but can now put them in a larger device and have the same if not better capabilities.
Yeah. My daughter and her friends are constantly video conferencing each other. They LOVE doing this! Across the pond esp, since they don't get together as she's in school. She even does it with us sometimes.
I don?t know the real reason, I only know there is evidence that the Touch was slated to get a camera. I don?t think it?s logical to assume they canned the idea at the last minute so it wouldn?t hurt Nano or iPhone sales. I?d say some technical issue was involved.
Which speculation about the tablet? It?s all over the place.
I do think we?ll get more than one new product. I think the order will be 2009 and holiday stats, iPhone v4.0 demo, new iPhone OS SDK, informed of new US carriers coming soon, and Tablet. They can?t give up the AppleTV and it?s long overdue for a HW revamping but I?m not sure that is the right venue. Perhaps with the next iPhone release or with new ACDs which are also long overdue. How much can we expect in one event? Hopefully a lot The iPhone and AppleTV were shown off together back in January 2007.
How about bringing AppleTV in line with the iPhone 4.0 OS? If the tablet is running a variant, that would give users a unified experience across multiple "screens", as MS likes to say.
That's not to say that AppleTV wouldn't still have it's own, appropriate media managing app, but if you explicitly ran it on the iPhone OS and opened it up to developers, that app could be one among many, including games.
I don’t know the real reason, I only know there is evidence that the Touch was slated to get a camera. I don’t think it’s logical to assume they canned the idea at the last minute so it wouldn’t hurt Nano or iPhone sales. I’d say some technical issue was involved.
It's the technical reason I'm talking about. It's no coincidence that there was a space for it in the proper place that wasn't in earlier models. Apple would rather sell Touches than Nanos.
Quote:
Which speculation about the tablet? It’s all over the place.
I do think we’ll get more than one new product. I think the order will be 2009 and holiday stats, iPhone v4.0 demo, new iPhone OS SDK, informed of new US carriers coming soon, and Tablet. They can’t give up the AppleTV and it’s long overdue for a HW revamping but I’m not sure that is the right venue. Perhaps with the next iPhone release or with new ACDs which are also long overdue. How much can we expect in one event? Hopefully a lot The iPhone and AppleTV were shown off together back in January 2007.
It looks as though they may introduce the new MacBook Pro's as well, now that there is information about the new chips for them. Refer to this AI article:
It looks as though they may introduce the new MacBook Pro's as well, now that there is information about the new chips for them. Refer to this AI article:
Are those chips out in bulk yet? I am half expecting a February-March Special Event updated the Pro Mac line and likely giving us some new LED backlit ACDs.
Perhaps wishful thinking, but I?d love to see a Mac Home Server in the mix, too.
Are those chips out in bulk yet? I am half expecting a February-March Special Event updated the Pro Mac line and likely giving us some new LED backlit ACDs.
Perhaps wishful thinking, but I?d love to see a Mac Home Server in the mix, too.
I assume Apple will have them in large enough quantities when they need them. Don't forget that they seem to get chips from Intel before others if they want them.
I remember the patent very well. We did a lot of speculation on what it could mean. It's an interesting concept. With multitouch tech, it could work pretty well even without seeing what you're doing.
I've just practiced some multiple finger gestures on the back of a notebook I keep here for my computer use, and it seemed pretty easy to do. After all, multitouch doesn't require you to hit any particular spot. So you can swipe anywhere on the back and it would work. Much better than actual buttons. It would match much better with the Apple philosophy of the fewer buttons the better. I read somewhere just a couple of days ago why Apple has few buttons on the phone and likely on the tablet. It said that Jobs hates buttons. He wears a turtleneck and sneakers - no buttons. The guy might have something there!
Anyway, I don't think a transparent tablet is in the works because where would you put the electronics? I have an old small LCD 3" screen portable Tv from Magnavox. It must be almost 20 years old. The screen can be hinged up 90 degrees. You can see through the back that way. It's neat, but the screen is all washed out like that, and you can see a fuzzy image of the background. Very distracting, and the color is all off across the screen.
So while a transparent screen is cool, it's not very useful.
If you experiment a bit, you find you could do quite a bit more than multitouch gestures; Almost any size tablet could have a touch surface on the back (in addition to the one on the front).
You could have a virtual split QWERTY (or other) keyboard that could track the position of the hands (fingers) and determine/adjust key location as necessary,
The palms and heals of the hands would support the tablet, freeing the thumbs and fingers for data entry.
The thumbs could register by touching the edges or front of the tablet,
As a training aid, you could display a semi-transparent HUD Keyboard on the display showing the split kb in relation to the fingers. This would overlay the display content but not block it entirely!
So you could:
1) finger/thumb type on edges/front and back as described above (device held by palms and heals of 2 hands)
2) thumb-type on display with any of several formats of split thumb virtual kbs (device held in 2 hands)
3) finger-type the way we do on the iPhone (device held in one hand)
4) finger/thumb-type with 2 hands on the display with a traditional virtual kb (device on lap or table)
So, it seems you have several alternative ways of keying data, depending on the needs of the app and preferences of the user for any specific situation.
Don't know the effect on carpel-tunnel, but this might just be better than a physical QWERTY-- or least an acceptable alternative to many!
Typing on the back of a tablet while my thumbs and heels of my hands support it seems insanely awkward to me. I mean, I guess it's doable, but I can't imagine that Apple would inflict this on their customers.
Truth be told, any kind of controlled finger movement on the back of a tablet while holding it doesn't feel very natural or comfortable to me. Beyond a sort of crude four or three finger scrubbing gesture, it doesn't seem very practical-- I think because my hands are anchored at the heel, and to do stuff with my fingers I have to rotate my hands inward somewhat more than the more natural palms at about 90º to the floor position.
For reference, just put your hand on a table top with the heel of your hand stationary, and see how many nuanced gestures you can make with your fingers. Then up the awkward quotient by rotating your hands to palms up, which is a somewhat uncomfortable position in its own right. I think an actual implementation of such a scheme would create all kinds of repetitive stress problems.
Typing on the back of a tablet while my thumbs and heels of my hands support it seems insanely awkward to me. I mean, I guess it's doable, but I can't imagine that Apple would inflict this on their customers.
Truth be told, any kind of controlled finger movement on the back of a tablet while holding it doesn't feel very natural or comfortable to me. Beyond a sort of crude four or three finger scrubbing gesture, it doesn't seem very practical-- I think because my hands are anchored at the heel, and to do stuff with my fingers I have to rotate my hands inward somewhat more than the more natural palms at about 90º to the floor position.
For reference, just put your hand on a table top with the heel of your hand stationary, and see how many nuanced gestures you can make with your fingers. Then up the awkward quotient by rotating your hands to palms up, which is a somewhat uncomfortable position in its own right. I think an actual implementation of such a scheme would create all kinds of repetitive stress problems.
You would support the tablet with the palms and heals of your hand-- the thumbs would be free.
A natural position for the hands related to the rest of your arms is when your arms are relaxed at your side, the wrists, fingers, thumbs are all aligned and facing inward towards your body. Bend your elbows and bring your arms up in front of you until the hands are a few inches apart (keeping the wrists, fingers, thumbs aligned).
Imagine you are holding a tablet in your hand palms/heals. Your wrists, fingers and thumbs are still in the same natural (relaxed) alignment with each other-- the only thing that has changed is that your elbows are bent naturally, and from there down everything is horizontal instead of vertical.
In traditional kb typing you do as above, then twist your elbows and lower arms into a less-natural position with the palms facing down.
I maintain that the position for traditional typing is less-relaxed and more stressful.
To illustrate, try saying the pledge of allegiance (or saluting) with your arms twisted the way you do for typing-- so that the palms face away from you.
...or, tenHUT!, At Ease! ... smoke 'em if you got 'em!
You would support the tablet with the palms and heals of your hand-- the thumbs would be free.
A natural position for the hands related to the rest of your arms is when your arms are relaxed at your side, the wrists, fingers, thumbs are all aligned and facing inward towards your body. Bend your elbows and bring your arms up in front of you until the hands are a few inches apart (keeping the wrists, fingers, thumbs aligned).
Imagine you are holding a tablet in your hand palms/heals. Your wrists, fingers and thumbs are still in the same natural (relaxed) alignment with each other-- the only thing that has changed is that your elbows are bent and from there down everything is horizontal instead of vertical.
In traditional kb typing you do as above, then twist your elbows and lower arms into a less-natural position with the palms facing down.
I maintain that the position for traditional typing is less-relaxed and more stressful.
To illustrate, try saying the pledge of allegiance (or saluting) with your arms twisted the way you do for typing-- so that the palms face away from you.
*
OK, I misunderstood the hand position you're suggesting, but I'm still not feeling it.
When I thumb type with a phone sized device, my fingertips hold the device from behind and my thumbs are elevated-- I get a pretty good range of motion because they're sort of point down so I get 360º of joint movement (plus of course I don't have much ground to cover).
With a 10" tablet (I'm trying this with an equivalent sized notepad) having my fingers curled around the back forces my thumbs to be relatively flat-- now all I can do is sort of move them through a flat, 45º arc. Plus, my fingers on the back of the thing are now even less mobile than if I left my thumbs out of it-- I can literally do little more than draw up my finger into a claw, and then let them slide back out flat.
I dunno, maybe my hands operate differently from yours? Have you tried this with an actual object in your hands?
OK, I misunderstood the hand position you're suggesting, but I'm still not feeling it.
When I thumb type with a phone sized device, my fingertips hold the device from behind and my thumbs are elevated-- I get a pretty good range of motion because they're sort of point down so I get 360º of joint movement (plus of course I don't have much ground to cover).
With a 10" tablet (I'm trying this with an equivalent sized notepad) having my fingers curled around the back forces my thumbs to be relatively flat-- now all I can do is sort of move them through a flat, 45º arc. Plus, my fingers on the back of the thing are now even less mobile than if I left my thumbs out of it-- I can literally do little more than draw up my finger into a claw, and then let them slide back out flat.
I dunno, maybe my hands operate differently from yours? Have you tried this with an actual object in your hands?
You wouldn't get the same range with your thumbs on a larger device (double the size = 4 * the area).
I have small hands, 9" from extended thumb tip to extended pinkie tip... and fat fingers.
When I bring my hands up as I described, there is about 1" between my cocked fingers and my cocked thumb.
I can easily insert a book 7-11" (or larger) book into my hands so that it is supported from the side by the heels of my hands and from the back by the palms bases of my 1st fingers.
My thumbs and fingers are still in their natural cocked positions.
Likely, my thumbs and fingers are lightly touching the front and back of the book (device).
Now, I can type normally by lifting, then pressing my fingers and thumbs (as opposed to pressing, then lifting on a standard kb)-- takes a little getting used to, but not much!
For multitouch, everything works the same by moving your cocked fingers, except the pinch motion-- you could use any 2 opposing fingers or finger and thumb (thumb on the display, finger on the back).
Now, you have at least 10 possible unique touch points on the device (more if the edges are sensitive to your palms/heels).
At any point in time, you could remove either hand and use the touch display as you do the iPhone mini virtual kb (moving the other hand, if desired, for additional support).
Or, you could set the device on the table or your lap and use a full-size QWERTY virtual kb on the display.
Try it!
The wrists, hands and fingers remain in a natural position-- like strummin', finger-pickin' or even a rasqueado!
If you experiment a bit, you find you could do quite a bit more than multitouch gestures; Almost any size tablet could have a touch surface on the back (in addition to the one on the front).
You could have a virtual split QWERTY (or other) keyboard that could track the position of the hands (fingers) and determine/adjust key location as necessary,
The palms and heals of the hands would support the tablet, freeing the thumbs and fingers for data entry.
The thumbs could register by touching the edges or front of the tablet,
As a training aid, you could display a semi-transparent HUD Keyboard on the display showing the split kb in relation to the fingers. This would overlay the display content but not block it entirely!
So you could:
1) finger/thumb type on edges/front and back as described above (device held by palms and heals of 2 hands)
2) thumb-type on display with any of several formats of split thumb virtual kbs (device held in 2 hands)
3) finger-type the way we do on the iPhone (device held in one hand)
4) finger/thumb-type with 2 hands on the display with a traditional virtual kb (device on lap or table)
So, it seems you have several alternative ways of keying data, depending on the needs of the app and preferences of the user for any specific situation.
Don't know the effect on carpel-tunnel, but this might just be better than a physical QWERTY-- or least an acceptable alternative to many!
*
There's lots of ways this could be done. I just wonder how far ahead of the curve Apple wants to be.
I suppose much of this could be turned off for those who find it a bit much.
Dear lord, if Apple releases a device that obliges its users to learn a new, rear facing style of typing, and which has a vocabulary of oddball touch gestures to get things done, it'll be greeted as the Newton Redux. And not in the good way. DOA. A massive, massive misstep for a company that can seem to do no wrong.
I think surely Apple knows this, as much as they'd like to push the state of the art out a bit. I can't think of a anything they've done that has required that much new behavior on the part of the user. In the instances where they've introduced new UI paradigms-- the original Mac, the iPod, and the iPhone-- the new things have all been dead simple and easy to master within a few minutes. Point and click, click wheel, and touch and swipe. You get it within seconds.
Backwards typing and three fingers with a twist to open a file? Insanity.
Having said that, I'm sure there are touch gestures which haven't occurred to us that, once demonstrated, will seem like the most natural thing in the world and will take little to no effort to master.
One thing to bear in mind is that the original Fingerworks library of gestures were developed for a touch pad, not a touch screen. They don't assume that you're getting direct feedback under your fingers, so we have to factor that in when we consider what Apple might do.
Dear lord, if Apple releases a device that obliges its users to learn a new, rear facing style of typing, and which has a vocabulary of oddball touch gestures to get things done, it'll be greeted as the Newton Redux. And not in the good way. DOA. A massive, massive misstep for a company that can seem to do no wrong.
I think surely Apple knows this, as much as they'd like to push the state of the art out a bit. I can't think of a anything they've done that has required that much new behavior on the part of the user. In the instances where they've introduced new UI paradigms-- the original Mac, the iPod, and the iPhone-- the new things have all been dead simple and easy to master within a few minutes. Point and click, click wheel, and touch and swipe. You get it within seconds.
Backwards typing and three fingers with a twist to open a file? Insanity.
I agree with you that it has to be intuitive, but I think a backside touchpad can be intuitive and useful. My fingers are free and I want to use them. without having to force grip the tablet with one hand so I can use a free hand to touch the front, or have to set it down on something to interact with it.
I don?t know how this could be easily, but when I look at how perfect the copy/paste is in the iPhone when it came to making an easy to learn system that had to be engineered from the ground up I have complete faith that they aren?t going to use anything Newton-like for the primary method for entering text.
It could be as simple as a back-panel swipe to bring up a keyboard that scales to match where your thumbs can reach or to quickly change fields on screen without having to directly touch a finger on that field before you can enter text.
Having said that, I'm sure there are touch gestures which haven't occurred to us that, once demonstrated, will seem like the most natural thing in the world and will take little to no effort to master.
This sort of thing is impossible to simply talk about. It requires a lot of trial and error to get it right. Apple is the only company I know of that is in a position and has the desire to make the HW, OS and apps all work the way they want them to.
Quote:
One thing to bear in mind is that the original Fingerworks library of gestures were developed for a touch pad, not a touch screen. They don't assume that you're getting direct feedback under your fingers, so we have to factor that in when we consider what Apple might do.
This is why i think the gestures mentioned in a previous posting aren?t too far from the truth. If you are only interacting with your display for both input and output then you don?t need complex gesturing, but if it?s a pad has not output you need a visual item on screen to represent your position or some combination gestures to perform tasks. A mouse works great because it?s a single point, but with a finger tips on a touchpad you can?t easily have 2 to 5 mouse pointers on the screen.
Comments
One of Gruber's minions I see. You owe him nothing.
Cool your jets. His comment is spot on.
And, for what it’s worth, I’m hearing there is no camera, webcam or otherwise, on The Tablet.
Well I wanted to throw this thought out since I haven't seen anyone mention it, but some time in 2009 (I believe), there was an AI article detailing an Apple patent that indicated the ability for a device to detect touch input not only through the front/top of a device, but also the bottom/rear of the device.
When I first saw the patent, I thought it was laughingly implausible because, after all, how could you accurately touch control something on a screen/computer's rear without actually flipping it over and looking at it? Then I saw this incredible-looking transparent OLED 14" screen from Samsung at CES 2010. It seriously looks like something out of Star Trek or Minority Report, where the graphical elements pop up on the transparent screen, but you can still see through it.
That got me thinking then, isn't it possible that either with the upcoming tablet, or some future iteration of it, that we may see the use a transparent screen with touch sensing capabilities on BOTH sides of the device, allowing for far more gestures and touch controls then what is currently capable with single-sided touch panels? With transparency in play, you'd be able to see both your fingers on the rear along with the touch controls that you intend to activate from the rear.
Then add to that, the Apple patent that showed a portable device that could slide in and out of a desktop-class screen/computer like a docking station, and all of a sudden you have the makings of not just a tablet, but a whole new device pairing that is both ultra-portable and fully-functional. So maybe this is years off in the future, but it's no longer impossible to imagine on-the-go computing in a tablet format taking off in a big way.
I remember the patent very well. We did a lot of speculation on what it could mean. It's an interesting concept. With multitouch tech, it could work pretty well even without seeing what you're doing.
I've just practiced some multiple finger gestures on the back of a notebook I keep here for my computer use, and it seemed pretty easy to do. After all, multitouch doesn't require you to hit any particular spot. So you can swipe anywhere on the back and it would work. Much better than actual buttons. It would match much better with the Apple philosophy of the fewer buttons the better. I read somewhere just a couple of days ago why Apple has few buttons on the phone and likely on the tablet. It said that Jobs hates buttons. He wears a turtleneck and sneakers - no buttons. The guy might have something there!
Anyway, I don't think a transparent tablet is in the works because where would you put the electronics? I have an old small LCD 3" screen portable Tv from Magnavox. It must be almost 20 years old. The screen can be hinged up 90 degrees. You can see through the back that way. It's neat, but the screen is all washed out like that, and you can see a fuzzy image of the background. Very distracting, and the color is all off across the screen.
So while a transparent screen is cool, it's not very useful.
1) This is a rumour, and should be taken with a grain of salt.
2) The Nano has a very low-grade 0.3Mpx video camera that can?t do still shots.
3) The Nano is clearly being put against the Flip video cameras.
4) The Touch doesn?t have a camera yet it?s more expensive than the Nano.
We know the real reason why the Touch has no camera. Don't believe Job's reason. It's pretty obvious that Apple intended for one to be installed. We should see it before too long.
And I'm wondering if all the tablet speculation is on the money. It seems as though Apple will be having more than one new product to introduce this month.
We know the real reason why the Touch has no camera. Don't believe Job's reason. It's pretty obvious that Apple intended for one to be installed. We should see it before too long.
And I'm wondering if all the tablet speculation is on the money. It seems as though Apple will be having more than one new product to introduce this month.
I don?t know the real reason, I only know there is evidence that the Touch was slated to get a camera. I don?t think it?s logical to assume they canned the idea at the last minute so it wouldn?t hurt Nano or iPhone sales. I?d say some technical issue was involved.
Which speculation about the tablet? It?s all over the place.
I do think we?ll get more than one new product. I think the order will be 2009 and holiday stats, iPhone v4.0 demo, new iPhone OS SDK, informed of new US carriers coming soon, and Tablet. They can?t give up the AppleTV and it?s long overdue for a HW revamping but I?m not sure that is the right venue. Perhaps with the next iPhone release or with new ACDs which are also long overdue. How much can we expect in one event? Hopefully a lot
Hey melgross. Best post of this thread. Too many are seeing this as the ultimate biz conferencing tool. I immediately saw it as a Skype tool, or iChat tool (finally), or some other way to connect people socially. Why would Apple make this a biz tool when they are not "really" in the biz world in the first place. This tablet, combined with a 3G radio, some wifi (the Nokia N800/N810 series had these capabilities), and the ability to tether would lend itself to a pretty potent device. I bought a 15 inch MBP but realized it was too small after having a 17 inch MBP so I gave it to my daughter. She got all of her friends on Skype, AIM, AOL, etc... and there is nothing but girlish giggling coming out of her room. A table with a cam would be a boon for people such as me who travels often, has a handful of sim cards to put in my legally unlocked iPhone (had to throw that in.
Yeah. My daughter and her friends are constantly video conferencing each other. They LOVE doing this! Across the pond esp, since they don't get together as she's in school. She even does it with us sometimes.
I don?t know the real reason, I only know there is evidence that the Touch was slated to get a camera. I don?t think it?s logical to assume they canned the idea at the last minute so it wouldn?t hurt Nano or iPhone sales. I?d say some technical issue was involved.
Which speculation about the tablet? It?s all over the place.
I do think we?ll get more than one new product. I think the order will be 2009 and holiday stats, iPhone v4.0 demo, new iPhone OS SDK, informed of new US carriers coming soon, and Tablet. They can?t give up the AppleTV and it?s long overdue for a HW revamping but I?m not sure that is the right venue. Perhaps with the next iPhone release or with new ACDs which are also long overdue. How much can we expect in one event? Hopefully a lot
How about bringing AppleTV in line with the iPhone 4.0 OS? If the tablet is running a variant, that would give users a unified experience across multiple "screens", as MS likes to say.
That's not to say that AppleTV wouldn't still have it's own, appropriate media managing app, but if you explicitly ran it on the iPhone OS and opened it up to developers, that app could be one among many, including games.
I don’t know the real reason, I only know there is evidence that the Touch was slated to get a camera. I don’t think it’s logical to assume they canned the idea at the last minute so it wouldn’t hurt Nano or iPhone sales. I’d say some technical issue was involved.
It's the technical reason I'm talking about. It's no coincidence that there was a space for it in the proper place that wasn't in earlier models. Apple would rather sell Touches than Nanos.
Which speculation about the tablet? It’s all over the place.
I do think we’ll get more than one new product. I think the order will be 2009 and holiday stats, iPhone v4.0 demo, new iPhone OS SDK, informed of new US carriers coming soon, and Tablet. They can’t give up the AppleTV and it’s long overdue for a HW revamping but I’m not sure that is the right venue. Perhaps with the next iPhone release or with new ACDs which are also long overdue. How much can we expect in one event? Hopefully a lot
It looks as though they may introduce the new MacBook Pro's as well, now that there is information about the new chips for them. Refer to this AI article:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...cbook_pro.html
It looks as though they may introduce the new MacBook Pro's as well, now that there is information about the new chips for them. Refer to this AI article:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...cbook_pro.html
Are those chips out in bulk yet? I am half expecting a February-March Special Event updated the Pro Mac line and likely giving us some new LED backlit ACDs.
Perhaps wishful thinking, but I?d love to see a Mac Home Server in the mix, too.
Are those chips out in bulk yet? I am half expecting a February-March Special Event updated the Pro Mac line and likely giving us some new LED backlit ACDs.
Perhaps wishful thinking, but I?d love to see a Mac Home Server in the mix, too.
I assume Apple will have them in large enough quantities when they need them. Don't forget that they seem to get chips from Intel before others if they want them.
I remember the patent very well. We did a lot of speculation on what it could mean. It's an interesting concept. With multitouch tech, it could work pretty well even without seeing what you're doing.
I've just practiced some multiple finger gestures on the back of a notebook I keep here for my computer use, and it seemed pretty easy to do. After all, multitouch doesn't require you to hit any particular spot. So you can swipe anywhere on the back and it would work. Much better than actual buttons. It would match much better with the Apple philosophy of the fewer buttons the better. I read somewhere just a couple of days ago why Apple has few buttons on the phone and likely on the tablet. It said that Jobs hates buttons. He wears a turtleneck and sneakers - no buttons. The guy might have something there!
Anyway, I don't think a transparent tablet is in the works because where would you put the electronics? I have an old small LCD 3" screen portable Tv from Magnavox. It must be almost 20 years old. The screen can be hinged up 90 degrees. You can see through the back that way. It's neat, but the screen is all washed out like that, and you can see a fuzzy image of the background. Very distracting, and the color is all off across the screen.
So while a transparent screen is cool, it's not very useful.
If you experiment a bit, you find you could do quite a bit more than multitouch gestures; Almost any size tablet could have a touch surface on the back (in addition to the one on the front).
You could have a virtual split QWERTY (or other) keyboard that could track the position of the hands (fingers) and determine/adjust key location as necessary,
The palms and heals of the hands would support the tablet, freeing the thumbs and fingers for data entry.
The thumbs could register by touching the edges or front of the tablet,
As a training aid, you could display a semi-transparent HUD Keyboard on the display showing the split kb in relation to the fingers. This would overlay the display content but not block it entirely!
So you could:
1) finger/thumb type on edges/front and back as described above (device held by palms and heals of 2 hands)
2) thumb-type on display with any of several formats of split thumb virtual kbs (device held in 2 hands)
3) finger-type the way we do on the iPhone (device held in one hand)
4) finger/thumb-type with 2 hands on the display with a traditional virtual kb (device on lap or table)
So, it seems you have several alternative ways of keying data, depending on the needs of the app and preferences of the user for any specific situation.
Don't know the effect on carpel-tunnel, but this might just be better than a physical QWERTY-- or least an acceptable alternative to many!
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Truth be told, any kind of controlled finger movement on the back of a tablet while holding it doesn't feel very natural or comfortable to me. Beyond a sort of crude four or three finger scrubbing gesture, it doesn't seem very practical-- I think because my hands are anchored at the heel, and to do stuff with my fingers I have to rotate my hands inward somewhat more than the more natural palms at about 90º to the floor position.
For reference, just put your hand on a table top with the heel of your hand stationary, and see how many nuanced gestures you can make with your fingers. Then up the awkward quotient by rotating your hands to palms up, which is a somewhat uncomfortable position in its own right. I think an actual implementation of such a scheme would create all kinds of repetitive stress problems.
Typing on the back of a tablet while my thumbs and heels of my hands support it seems insanely awkward to me. I mean, I guess it's doable, but I can't imagine that Apple would inflict this on their customers.
Truth be told, any kind of controlled finger movement on the back of a tablet while holding it doesn't feel very natural or comfortable to me. Beyond a sort of crude four or three finger scrubbing gesture, it doesn't seem very practical-- I think because my hands are anchored at the heel, and to do stuff with my fingers I have to rotate my hands inward somewhat more than the more natural palms at about 90º to the floor position.
For reference, just put your hand on a table top with the heel of your hand stationary, and see how many nuanced gestures you can make with your fingers. Then up the awkward quotient by rotating your hands to palms up, which is a somewhat uncomfortable position in its own right. I think an actual implementation of such a scheme would create all kinds of repetitive stress problems.
You would support the tablet with the palms and heals of your hand-- the thumbs would be free.
A natural position for the hands related to the rest of your arms is when your arms are relaxed at your side, the wrists, fingers, thumbs are all aligned and facing inward towards your body. Bend your elbows and bring your arms up in front of you until the hands are a few inches apart (keeping the wrists, fingers, thumbs aligned).
Imagine you are holding a tablet in your hand palms/heals. Your wrists, fingers and thumbs are still in the same natural (relaxed) alignment with each other-- the only thing that has changed is that your elbows are bent naturally, and from there down everything is horizontal instead of vertical.
In traditional kb typing you do as above, then twist your elbows and lower arms into a less-natural position with the palms facing down.
I maintain that the position for traditional typing is less-relaxed and more stressful.
To illustrate, try saying the pledge of allegiance (or saluting) with your arms twisted the way you do for typing-- so that the palms face away from you.
...or, tenHUT!, At Ease! ... smoke 'em if you got 'em!
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You would support the tablet with the palms and heals of your hand-- the thumbs would be free.
A natural position for the hands related to the rest of your arms is when your arms are relaxed at your side, the wrists, fingers, thumbs are all aligned and facing inward towards your body. Bend your elbows and bring your arms up in front of you until the hands are a few inches apart (keeping the wrists, fingers, thumbs aligned).
Imagine you are holding a tablet in your hand palms/heals. Your wrists, fingers and thumbs are still in the same natural (relaxed) alignment with each other-- the only thing that has changed is that your elbows are bent and from there down everything is horizontal instead of vertical.
In traditional kb typing you do as above, then twist your elbows and lower arms into a less-natural position with the palms facing down.
I maintain that the position for traditional typing is less-relaxed and more stressful.
To illustrate, try saying the pledge of allegiance (or saluting) with your arms twisted the way you do for typing-- so that the palms face away from you.
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OK, I misunderstood the hand position you're suggesting, but I'm still not feeling it.
When I thumb type with a phone sized device, my fingertips hold the device from behind and my thumbs are elevated-- I get a pretty good range of motion because they're sort of point down so I get 360º of joint movement (plus of course I don't have much ground to cover).
With a 10" tablet (I'm trying this with an equivalent sized notepad) having my fingers curled around the back forces my thumbs to be relatively flat-- now all I can do is sort of move them through a flat, 45º arc. Plus, my fingers on the back of the thing are now even less mobile than if I left my thumbs out of it-- I can literally do little more than draw up my finger into a claw, and then let them slide back out flat.
I dunno, maybe my hands operate differently from yours? Have you tried this with an actual object in your hands?
Funny, but I wrote a simple iPhone app (for my own amazement) that does InNOut ordering (like the guy out there).
It is a single screen app, you:
1) clear the screen
2) tally the order
3) total and transmit
I didn't include the secret menu (Animal-Style is my favorite).
The iPhone or Touch is quite powerful in its own right! We don' need no stinkin' Tablet!
There's an InNOut in Pasadena that's still in the same place since 1953-54!
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that is what i'm talkin about... so cool !!!
OK, I misunderstood the hand position you're suggesting, but I'm still not feeling it.
When I thumb type with a phone sized device, my fingertips hold the device from behind and my thumbs are elevated-- I get a pretty good range of motion because they're sort of point down so I get 360º of joint movement (plus of course I don't have much ground to cover).
With a 10" tablet (I'm trying this with an equivalent sized notepad) having my fingers curled around the back forces my thumbs to be relatively flat-- now all I can do is sort of move them through a flat, 45º arc. Plus, my fingers on the back of the thing are now even less mobile than if I left my thumbs out of it-- I can literally do little more than draw up my finger into a claw, and then let them slide back out flat.
I dunno, maybe my hands operate differently from yours? Have you tried this with an actual object in your hands?
You wouldn't get the same range with your thumbs on a larger device (double the size = 4 * the area).
I have small hands, 9" from extended thumb tip to extended pinkie tip... and fat fingers.
When I bring my hands up as I described, there is about 1" between my cocked fingers and my cocked thumb.
I can easily insert a book 7-11" (or larger) book into my hands so that it is supported from the side by the heels of my hands and from the back by the palms bases of my 1st fingers.
My thumbs and fingers are still in their natural cocked positions.
Likely, my thumbs and fingers are lightly touching the front and back of the book (device).
Now, I can type normally by lifting, then pressing my fingers and thumbs (as opposed to pressing, then lifting on a standard kb)-- takes a little getting used to, but not much!
For multitouch, everything works the same by moving your cocked fingers, except the pinch motion-- you could use any 2 opposing fingers or finger and thumb (thumb on the display, finger on the back).
Now, you have at least 10 possible unique touch points on the device (more if the edges are sensitive to your palms/heels).
At any point in time, you could remove either hand and use the touch display as you do the iPhone mini virtual kb (moving the other hand, if desired, for additional support).
Or, you could set the device on the table or your lap and use a full-size QWERTY virtual kb on the display.
Try it!
The wrists, hands and fingers remain in a natural position-- like strummin', finger-pickin' or even a rasqueado!
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If you experiment a bit, you find you could do quite a bit more than multitouch gestures; Almost any size tablet could have a touch surface on the back (in addition to the one on the front).
You could have a virtual split QWERTY (or other) keyboard that could track the position of the hands (fingers) and determine/adjust key location as necessary,
The palms and heals of the hands would support the tablet, freeing the thumbs and fingers for data entry.
The thumbs could register by touching the edges or front of the tablet,
As a training aid, you could display a semi-transparent HUD Keyboard on the display showing the split kb in relation to the fingers. This would overlay the display content but not block it entirely!
So you could:
1) finger/thumb type on edges/front and back as described above (device held by palms and heals of 2 hands)
2) thumb-type on display with any of several formats of split thumb virtual kbs (device held in 2 hands)
3) finger-type the way we do on the iPhone (device held in one hand)
4) finger/thumb-type with 2 hands on the display with a traditional virtual kb (device on lap or table)
So, it seems you have several alternative ways of keying data, depending on the needs of the app and preferences of the user for any specific situation.
Don't know the effect on carpel-tunnel, but this might just be better than a physical QWERTY-- or least an acceptable alternative to many!
*
There's lots of ways this could be done. I just wonder how far ahead of the curve Apple wants to be.
I suppose much of this could be turned off for those who find it a bit much.
I think surely Apple knows this, as much as they'd like to push the state of the art out a bit. I can't think of a anything they've done that has required that much new behavior on the part of the user. In the instances where they've introduced new UI paradigms-- the original Mac, the iPod, and the iPhone-- the new things have all been dead simple and easy to master within a few minutes. Point and click, click wheel, and touch and swipe. You get it within seconds.
Backwards typing and three fingers with a twist to open a file? Insanity.
One thing to bear in mind is that the original Fingerworks library of gestures were developed for a touch pad, not a touch screen. They don't assume that you're getting direct feedback under your fingers, so we have to factor that in when we consider what Apple might do.
Dear lord, if Apple releases a device that obliges its users to learn a new, rear facing style of typing, and which has a vocabulary of oddball touch gestures to get things done, it'll be greeted as the Newton Redux. And not in the good way. DOA. A massive, massive misstep for a company that can seem to do no wrong.
I think surely Apple knows this, as much as they'd like to push the state of the art out a bit. I can't think of a anything they've done that has required that much new behavior on the part of the user. In the instances where they've introduced new UI paradigms-- the original Mac, the iPod, and the iPhone-- the new things have all been dead simple and easy to master within a few minutes. Point and click, click wheel, and touch and swipe. You get it within seconds.
Backwards typing and three fingers with a twist to open a file? Insanity.
I agree with you that it has to be intuitive, but I think a backside touchpad can be intuitive and useful. My fingers are free and I want to use them. without having to force grip the tablet with one hand so I can use a free hand to touch the front, or have to set it down on something to interact with it.
I don?t know how this could be easily, but when I look at how perfect the copy/paste is in the iPhone when it came to making an easy to learn system that had to be engineered from the ground up I have complete faith that they aren?t going to use anything Newton-like for the primary method for entering text.
It could be as simple as a back-panel swipe to bring up a keyboard that scales to match where your thumbs can reach or to quickly change fields on screen without having to directly touch a finger on that field before you can enter text.
Having said that, I'm sure there are touch gestures which haven't occurred to us that, once demonstrated, will seem like the most natural thing in the world and will take little to no effort to master.
This sort of thing is impossible to simply talk about. It requires a lot of trial and error to get it right. Apple is the only company I know of that is in a position and has the desire to make the HW, OS and apps all work the way they want them to.
One thing to bear in mind is that the original Fingerworks library of gestures were developed for a touch pad, not a touch screen. They don't assume that you're getting direct feedback under your fingers, so we have to factor that in when we consider what Apple might do.
This is why i think the gestures mentioned in a previous posting aren?t too far from the truth. If you are only interacting with your display for both input and output then you don?t need complex gesturing, but if it?s a pad has not output you need a visual item on screen to represent your position or some combination gestures to perform tasks. A mouse works great because it?s a single point, but with a finger tips on a touchpad you can?t easily have 2 to 5 mouse pointers on the screen.