You do realize that this is false information leaked on purpose so that everyone can be up in amrs about how it's going to cost $1000, and then when Apple gives it to us at $600, we'll all say "bless you bless you kind sir!"
Well, that's my theory anyway... we'll find out in a week
People are complaining about the rumored $700 pricepoint for the Mac tablet.. I was trying to put things in perspective by simply stating that a far less capable device is on the market for $500.
and you know what? a far more equal competitor has been doing it for years at a price point below the kindle as well. it's called the Archos 5...$249 for the 8 gig. Pllays 720p movies, has Android OS and the AppLib for apps. Plus it has a DVR function and a Digital TV tuner. Sounds like Apple better have a really compelling product to beat this.
Because (1.) it's not only "what" it will do, but "how" it will do it.. and (2.) It may do things that the MacBook won't or vice versa.
A cheap $400 windows machine will pretty much do the same things as a $1000 MacBook.. They both do email, internet, movies, photos, music, office productivity etc. etc.. The key difference is "how" the MacBook does them.. The Mac is (arguably) a better user experience all around, that's what people will pay for.
It's the same idea behind a MacBook and MacBook touch.. Assuming they do similar functions, the difference is how they accomplish those functions.. And the perceived value of doing those functions in a more intuitive (multi-touch) way will determine how much people will pay for it.. I guess well have to wait and see..
But the argument of "why would I pay $xx.xx for the tablet when a MacBook costs $xx.xx" is a moot point until we see how this new device works and accomplishes certain tasks.
ok, so how is multi-touch going to make typing on forums and writing emails less cumbersome than it already is on the iphone? To me, netbook or physical keyboard wins out on that. Unless it's going to be voice controlled and we all know that's a terrible idea.
You do realize that this is false information leaked on purpose so that everyone can be up in amrs about how it's going to cost $1000, and then when Apple gives it to us at $600, we'll all say "bless you bless you kind sir!"
Well, that's my theory anyway... we'll find out in a week
i'm drinking that kool-aid too. People around going to be thinking they are getting some kind of deal on 600 bucks when the we all read the break-down material cost and know profit it about 200% to sometimes 400%. Apple has a good track record and they take full advantage of it. It's not like their products are lined with gold or anything they just work well and are quality products and they can charge a premium for it.
[CENTER]Have you considered the possibility that Apple has made provisions for existing iPhone users to be able to tether their new iTablet/iSlate/iPad, with only new users having to open an entirely new account ?
[/CENTER]
Yes...
Actually...in some countries...tethering is not allowed. In Japan for instance, there is a difference between Mobile use and Computer use when using internet. Mobile Use falls in the data plan, whereas computer use does not....
even should be the case, i still think that the applet would not have 3G integrated. Can be extended to use 3G thru some expansion card or as you said thru tethering... but not a 3G card inside. In fact, previous notebook makers tried to sell the 3G enabled notebook...but weren't really succesfull...
I've been using a Kindle version 2 for over a year and I find it hard to replace it with a computer. Why? F
- Weight
- Superior E-Ink
- Battery life
- Books cost
I don't think the tablet will beat the kindle in term of weight. I'm telling you, after 1 or 2 hours reading, even 250 grams feel heavy... I estimate that the tablet will be around 700g at least.
In addition If you have tried E-Ink devices you know what i mean in term of readability. Looking at an E-Ink screen it is really relaxing. I'm really excited about the tablet, but it will not replace my kindle for my books. Colors? after using my kindle, so far, i've never felt the big need for colors when using an ebook.
An LCD screen, even you push power saving as much as you can, cannot last more than 5 hours of continuos use. Just check the ipod touch, if i'm using wifi and half luminosity, it doesn't last 5 hours. bigger screen, bigger battery...but E-ink books out there last 2 weeks and have instant on/off and while showing a page they don't use any power.
Amazon has books for the kindle at a really low price. Apple, we must say, is really greedy in terms of profit from publishers. I don't think books would be cheaper than amazon.
Moreover...any book purchased on amazon, can be read on any PC or iphone... beat that...
I almost forgot. Amazon lost his first round with schools and university when they tried to push the Kindle as a replacement for textbooks. Why? Not really for the black and white thing...but because vision impaired people or blind couldn't really use it. Unless apple really comes out with a way (already patented) to make the screen touch sensitive (i.e. braille on screen)... they will have hard time to enter universities.
... I was suprised by the comment of steve jobs "People is not reading anymore books" during a keynote last year. I think they didn't consider Ebooks until recently... which means, they will provide them but not as a one of the strongest point. a way to say "It can do that too".
So this thing had better either make me pancakes or Be priced halfway between a 32GB iPhone and a MacBook.
Since a 32GB iPhone costs $699 and the lowest end MacBook costs $999, then you are okay paying $850 for it? At $850, you are only $150 from a full-function laptop. If this is your idea of "okay", then Apple has a great value proposition for you.
Now if you meant between the $299 SUBSIDIZED price of an iPhone, then you must also accept that any subsidy on whatever iTablet-y thing Apple introduces will require you to pay a monthly fee to some carrier or perhaps have to deal with constant mobile ads on your device (Apple did by a mobile ad firm, right?)
Somehow, some way, Apple has to make a profit on the device. And given their 30%+ margins, you can assume that it WILL cost more than $700 w/o subsidy just by mere fact that a bigger device with more functionality than the $700 iPhone will carry with it higher cost of manufacturing. And given how well Apple is already doing, and the fact that the tablet market is virtually non-existent, there is no reason to underprice a new device that unnecessarily eats into their margins, UNLESS there is a viable competitive threat in the marketplace (none currently exists) or the need to corner the market with first-mover advantage (very risky when the size and profitability of the market is unproven).
Apple will attempt to create a market that doesn't really exist yet. As a result, pricing, supply, and demand issues are unpredictable. At some point, the market will supposedly decide what is an acceptable price given the value that the device offers. So... we wait.
While consumer interest in Apple's forthcoming tablet is high..."
OK, lets get this straight once and for all. The only consumers with ANY interest in this at present are all of the geeks and nerds that frequent the tech rumour sites. That means us. Yep, all of us, the geeks, the nerds, the moaners, groaners, whingers, elitists, know it alls and general aholes (tekstud a.k.a. mactripper) who make up the 0.001% of those who buy Apple products by their masses (e.g. iPods and iPhones).
So its pretty unlikely that anything we say will make any difference to the price Apple launch at. Plus most of the posters here are just members of the waitandsee brigade anyway.
Since a 32GB iPhone costs $699 and the lowest end MacBook costs $999, then you are okay paying $850 for it? At $850, you are only $150 from a full-function laptop. If this is your idea of "okay", then Apple has a great value proposition for you.
Although the 32GB iPhone costs $700 unsubsidised, it's worth noting that the 32GB iPod Touch costs $300 unsubsidised. I can't realistically see a reason the iPhone is $400 more than the iPod Touch - but they are the prices as they exist today.
You also presume a MacBook does more than the slate will.
Quote:
Somehow, some way, Apple has to make a profit on the device. And given their 30%+ margins, you can assume that it WILL cost more than $700 w/o subsidy just by mere fact that a bigger device with more functionality than the $700 iPhone will carry with it higher cost of manufacturing.
Yes bigger will cost more. The bigger screen and battery are $50 extra cost. The backing will also cost more. The chip is likely to be faster. They probably have 512MB of ram too.
Given the iPod Touch / iPhone price discrepancies, it's likely Apple has an extra high margin on iPhone and quite a low margin on iPod Touch. Which will they choose for the slate? When they released movie rentals for iTunes they dropped 40% off the price of the AppleTV, without subscriptions being thrown in to guarantee a return.
Quote:
And given how well Apple is already doing, and the fact that the tablet market is virtually non-existent, there is no reason to underprice a new device that unnecessarily eats into their margins, UNLESS there is a viable competitive threat in the marketplace (none currently exists) or the need to corner the market with first-mover advantage (very risky when the size and profitability of the market is unproven).
No reason to underprice the device? Apple needs to make a splash with the device, or it'll die slowly.
If they price it very low, more people will buy it. Apple won't make much money on that of course. But the publishers will be pleased to have more customers buying their magazines, more videos will be rented, newspapers read, accessories made, developers will be more interested... they have to get the numbers to make it start.
Quote:
Apple will attempt to create a market that doesn't really exist yet. As a result, pricing, supply, and demand issues are unpredictable. At some point, the market will supposedly decide what is an acceptable price given the value that the device offers. So... we wait.
This is true. The cost of the device does also determine the price of course... but yes there are many unknowns and it is a gamble for Apple.
ok, so how is multi-touch going to make typing on forums and writing emails less cumbersome than it already is on the iphone? To me, netbook or physical keyboard wins out on that. Unless it's going to be voice controlled and we all know that's a terrible idea.
I don't know, nor do I pretend to know. Unlike some folks in this discussion, i'm going to wait and see what and how this device does things before I make any judgements about it.
and you know what? a far more equal competitor has been doing it for years at a price point below the kindle as well. it's called the Archos 5...$249 for the 8 gig. Pllays 720p movies, has Android OS and the AppLib for apps. Plus it has a DVR function and a Digital TV tuner. Sounds like Apple better have a really compelling product to beat this.
Sure the new Archos 9 with windows 7 on it is $549, but that's still going to beat the kindle. and archos has been around since 2002. Time tested.
Like I said in another post that you quoted me on.. It is not just "what" something does, it's also "how" it does it. Meaning there is much more to a product than just a feature list. The only reason there is so much hype and buzz about this product is because everyone knows what Apple is capable of.
We are gonna have to wait another week to find out..
I very much doubt I would consider it at even 700 dollars. The base Macbook is 1000 dollars now, isn't it? The tablet would near certainly be underpowered, lower capacity, slower, less compatible, and less versatile. I just don't see the point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
For those wanting the full desktop OS X on the tablet, wouldn't that require all current and future OS X apps to be recompiled for ARM?
More than just recompiled...It took them three years with the aid of Intel to reprogram for x86 when they switched from PowerPC, switching architectures is no walk in the park.
1. It will play music, video, audiobooks, and other iTunes media.
2. It will feature ebook reading.
3. It will be multi touch.
4. It will utilize Flash storage, one model will be 64 gb.
5. It will run App store apps.
6. It will feature other desktop apps ported to the multi touch UI.
Come back next week and tell me if this was not accurate "guess work"
if it is $999 and won't stream videos free from network sites it could fail right there. Add that you have to buy free tv shows without ads of course, a monthly 3g fee and it won't pat other media like divx, when Jobs gets ready to say the price, I would not be surprised if the audience moaned but they won't. If they can afford attending, $999 is not that much. In this economy though, right now it is.
When you've paid $500 for a 40GB iPod a few years back, $700 for the tablet doesn't seem like all that much. Pricing the thing at $999 would be a mistake however. Correct me if I'm wrong, but just look at the MacBook Air. It's overpriced, underpowered, and doesn't have an optical drive. As a result, it didn't enjoy the same success of the MacBooks and MacBook Pros.
Beyond that it needs to be more than just really great.
Amazon has no trouble selling the Kindle DX for $489, the Apple tablet will do much more than the Kindle DX, so asking $999 or more for it seems reasonable to me.
Comments
It was the unibody MacBook/ MacBook Pro's. The milling process for a single piece of aluminum is not cheap.
I?m thinking of one from one of the quarterly conference call sometime last year.
little hard to say how much a device is worth without knowing what it does
exactly.
these studies are so unsound they are funny. 500 folks from some mag or site respond to a poll. yeah, that says a lot.
we don't know what this device really is so it is hard to put a value on it.
but lets pretend and do some math
if you buy separately you could be looking at:
netbook price $250
ipod price $200
ereader price.$200
portable game device. price $200
portable movie player. portable dvd player probably run ya another $100 if you work the sales
so all that is $950 plus you've got a stack of stuff to haul around etc.
or an iWhatever at $700 and it's one device.
some folks would say that that math works for them.
Well, that's my theory anyway... we'll find out in a week
Actually, you missed my point entirely..
People are complaining about the rumored $700 pricepoint for the Mac tablet.. I was trying to put things in perspective by simply stating that a far less capable device is on the market for $500.
and you know what? a far more equal competitor has been doing it for years at a price point below the kindle as well. it's called the Archos 5...$249 for the 8 gig. Pllays 720p movies, has Android OS and the AppLib for apps. Plus it has a DVR function and a Digital TV tuner. Sounds like Apple better have a really compelling product to beat this.
http://www.archos.com/
Sure the new Archos 9 with windows 7 on it is $549, but that's still going to beat the kindle. and archos has been around since 2002. Time tested.
Because (1.) it's not only "what" it will do, but "how" it will do it.. and (2.) It may do things that the MacBook won't or vice versa.
A cheap $400 windows machine will pretty much do the same things as a $1000 MacBook.. They both do email, internet, movies, photos, music, office productivity etc. etc.. The key difference is "how" the MacBook does them.. The Mac is (arguably) a better user experience all around, that's what people will pay for.
It's the same idea behind a MacBook and MacBook touch.. Assuming they do similar functions, the difference is how they accomplish those functions.. And the perceived value of doing those functions in a more intuitive (multi-touch) way will determine how much people will pay for it.. I guess well have to wait and see..
But the argument of "why would I pay $xx.xx for the tablet when a MacBook costs $xx.xx" is a moot point until we see how this new device works and accomplishes certain tasks.
ok, so how is multi-touch going to make typing on forums and writing emails less cumbersome than it already is on the iphone? To me, netbook or physical keyboard wins out on that. Unless it's going to be voice controlled and we all know that's a terrible idea.
You do realize that this is false information leaked on purpose so that everyone can be up in amrs about how it's going to cost $1000, and then when Apple gives it to us at $600, we'll all say "bless you bless you kind sir!"
Well, that's my theory anyway... we'll find out in a week
i'm drinking that kool-aid too. People around going to be thinking they are getting some kind of deal on 600 bucks when the we all read the break-down material cost and know profit it about 200% to sometimes 400%. Apple has a good track record and they take full advantage of it. It's not like their products are lined with gold or anything they just work well and are quality products and they can charge a premium for it.
[CENTER]Have you considered the possibility that Apple has made provisions for existing iPhone users to be able to tether their new iTablet/iSlate/iPad, with only new users having to open an entirely new account ?
[/CENTER]
Yes...
Actually...in some countries...tethering is not allowed. In Japan for instance, there is a difference between Mobile use and Computer use when using internet. Mobile Use falls in the data plan, whereas computer use does not....
even should be the case, i still think that the applet would not have 3G integrated. Can be extended to use 3G thru some expansion card or as you said thru tethering... but not a 3G card inside. In fact, previous notebook makers tried to sell the 3G enabled notebook...but weren't really succesfull...
- Weight
- Superior E-Ink
- Battery life
- Books cost
I don't think the tablet will beat the kindle in term of weight. I'm telling you, after 1 or 2 hours reading, even 250 grams feel heavy... I estimate that the tablet will be around 700g at least.
In addition If you have tried E-Ink devices you know what i mean in term of readability. Looking at an E-Ink screen it is really relaxing. I'm really excited about the tablet, but it will not replace my kindle for my books. Colors? after using my kindle, so far, i've never felt the big need for colors when using an ebook.
An LCD screen, even you push power saving as much as you can, cannot last more than 5 hours of continuos use. Just check the ipod touch, if i'm using wifi and half luminosity, it doesn't last 5 hours. bigger screen, bigger battery...but E-ink books out there last 2 weeks and have instant on/off and while showing a page they don't use any power.
Amazon has books for the kindle at a really low price. Apple, we must say, is really greedy in terms of profit from publishers. I don't think books would be cheaper than amazon.
Moreover...any book purchased on amazon, can be read on any PC or iphone... beat that...
I almost forgot. Amazon lost his first round with schools and university when they tried to push the Kindle as a replacement for textbooks. Why? Not really for the black and white thing...but because vision impaired people or blind couldn't really use it. Unless apple really comes out with a way (already patented) to make the screen touch sensitive (i.e. braille on screen)... they will have hard time to enter universities.
... I was suprised by the comment of steve jobs "People is not reading anymore books" during a keynote last year. I think they didn't consider Ebooks until recently... which means, they will provide them but not as a one of the strongest point. a way to say "It can do that too".
So this thing had better either make me pancakes or Be priced halfway between a 32GB iPhone and a MacBook.
Since a 32GB iPhone costs $699 and the lowest end MacBook costs $999, then you are okay paying $850 for it? At $850, you are only $150 from a full-function laptop. If this is your idea of "okay", then Apple has a great value proposition for you.
Now if you meant between the $299 SUBSIDIZED price of an iPhone, then you must also accept that any subsidy on whatever iTablet-y thing Apple introduces will require you to pay a monthly fee to some carrier or perhaps have to deal with constant mobile ads on your device (Apple did by a mobile ad firm, right?)
Somehow, some way, Apple has to make a profit on the device. And given their 30%+ margins, you can assume that it WILL cost more than $700 w/o subsidy just by mere fact that a bigger device with more functionality than the $700 iPhone will carry with it higher cost of manufacturing. And given how well Apple is already doing, and the fact that the tablet market is virtually non-existent, there is no reason to underprice a new device that unnecessarily eats into their margins, UNLESS there is a viable competitive threat in the marketplace (none currently exists) or the need to corner the market with first-mover advantage (very risky when the size and profitability of the market is unproven).
Apple will attempt to create a market that doesn't really exist yet. As a result, pricing, supply, and demand issues are unpredictable. At some point, the market will supposedly decide what is an acceptable price given the value that the device offers. So... we wait.
While consumer interest in Apple's forthcoming tablet is high..."
OK, lets get this straight once and for all. The only consumers with ANY interest in this at present are all of the geeks and nerds that frequent the tech rumour sites. That means us. Yep, all of us, the geeks, the nerds, the moaners, groaners, whingers, elitists, know it alls and general aholes (tekstud a.k.a. mactripper) who make up the 0.001% of those who buy Apple products by their masses (e.g. iPods and iPhones).
So its pretty unlikely that anything we say will make any difference to the price Apple launch at. Plus most of the posters here are just members of the waitandsee brigade anyway.
This may change by Wednesday evening.
Id love you all to bring the convo for the device there too. See you there.
Mark
Techreviewonline.co.uk
Since a 32GB iPhone costs $699 and the lowest end MacBook costs $999, then you are okay paying $850 for it? At $850, you are only $150 from a full-function laptop. If this is your idea of "okay", then Apple has a great value proposition for you.
Although the 32GB iPhone costs $700 unsubsidised, it's worth noting that the 32GB iPod Touch costs $300 unsubsidised. I can't realistically see a reason the iPhone is $400 more than the iPod Touch - but they are the prices as they exist today.
You also presume a MacBook does more than the slate will.
Somehow, some way, Apple has to make a profit on the device. And given their 30%+ margins, you can assume that it WILL cost more than $700 w/o subsidy just by mere fact that a bigger device with more functionality than the $700 iPhone will carry with it higher cost of manufacturing.
Yes bigger will cost more. The bigger screen and battery are $50 extra cost. The backing will also cost more. The chip is likely to be faster. They probably have 512MB of ram too.
Given the iPod Touch / iPhone price discrepancies, it's likely Apple has an extra high margin on iPhone and quite a low margin on iPod Touch. Which will they choose for the slate? When they released movie rentals for iTunes they dropped 40% off the price of the AppleTV, without subscriptions being thrown in to guarantee a return.
And given how well Apple is already doing, and the fact that the tablet market is virtually non-existent, there is no reason to underprice a new device that unnecessarily eats into their margins, UNLESS there is a viable competitive threat in the marketplace (none currently exists) or the need to corner the market with first-mover advantage (very risky when the size and profitability of the market is unproven).
No reason to underprice the device? Apple needs to make a splash with the device, or it'll die slowly.
If they price it very low, more people will buy it. Apple won't make much money on that of course. But the publishers will be pleased to have more customers buying their magazines, more videos will be rented, newspapers read, accessories made, developers will be more interested... they have to get the numbers to make it start.
Apple will attempt to create a market that doesn't really exist yet. As a result, pricing, supply, and demand issues are unpredictable. At some point, the market will supposedly decide what is an acceptable price given the value that the device offers. So... we wait.
This is true. The cost of the device does also determine the price of course... but yes there are many unknowns and it is a gamble for Apple.
ok, so how is multi-touch going to make typing on forums and writing emails less cumbersome than it already is on the iphone? To me, netbook or physical keyboard wins out on that. Unless it's going to be voice controlled and we all know that's a terrible idea.
I don't know, nor do I pretend to know. Unlike some folks in this discussion, i'm going to wait and see what and how this device does things before I make any judgements about it.
and you know what? a far more equal competitor has been doing it for years at a price point below the kindle as well. it's called the Archos 5...$249 for the 8 gig. Pllays 720p movies, has Android OS and the AppLib for apps. Plus it has a DVR function and a Digital TV tuner. Sounds like Apple better have a really compelling product to beat this.
http://www.archos.com/
Sure the new Archos 9 with windows 7 on it is $549, but that's still going to beat the kindle. and archos has been around since 2002. Time tested.
Like I said in another post that you quoted me on.. It is not just "what" something does, it's also "how" it does it. Meaning there is much more to a product than just a feature list. The only reason there is so much hype and buzz about this product is because everyone knows what Apple is capable of.
We are gonna have to wait another week to find out..
For those wanting the full desktop OS X on the tablet, wouldn't that require all current and future OS X apps to be recompiled for ARM?
More than just recompiled...It took them three years with the aid of Intel to reprogram for x86 when they switched from PowerPC, switching architectures is no walk in the park.
1. It will play music, video, audiobooks, and other iTunes media.
2. It will feature ebook reading.
3. It will be multi touch.
4. It will utilize Flash storage, one model will be 64 gb.
5. It will run App store apps.
6. It will feature other desktop apps ported to the multi touch UI.
Come back next week and tell me if this was not accurate "guess work"
if it is $999 and won't stream videos free from network sites it could fail right there. Add that you have to buy free tv shows without ads of course, a monthly 3g fee and it won't pat other media like divx, when Jobs gets ready to say the price, I would not be surprised if the audience moaned but they won't. If they can afford attending, $999 is not that much. In this economy though, right now it is.
Apple can ask $1200 and I'll still buy it!
Beyond that it needs to be more than just really great.
Amazon has no trouble selling the Kindle DX for $489, the Apple tablet will do much more than the Kindle DX, so asking $999 or more for it seems reasonable to me.