Apple's iPad promo materials misleading on Adobe Flash support

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  • Reply 61 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nkhm View Post


    Ermm - youtube is already doing it?



    Only as a beta in a very limited trial basis. It is a step in the right direction, but if you're going to say something to try and one-up someone, give all the details and facts.
  • Reply 62 of 174
    pt123pt123 Posts: 696member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nkhm View Post


    It DOESN'T work, that's the point. It's not stable, it consumes up to 100% processor power, it causes over heating and drains battery life, while causing hangs and browser crashes.



    I am not a fan of Flash but I don't hate it either, since it is what brings so much of the internet video to my computer but I don't know why you don't think it does not work? I catch football highlights on NFL.com every week and it works fine for me. Watched an episode of 24 from Hulu too. If and when something else replaces Flash, I'll watch using that too.
  • Reply 63 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nkhm View Post


    It DOESN'T work, that's the point. It's not stable, it consumes up to 100% processor power, it causes over heating and drains battery life, while causing hangs and browser crashes.



    Yet almost every other smart phone and tablet has Flash and it works. You're telling me Apple with all their genius can't come up with a way to make it work for them? Listen, I really like Apple a lot, but I'm not bias and blinded by my "like" of them. You may not like Flash and that's your right, but it seems to work every where else if developed intelligently. I work in Flash all the time and never had any problems on any sites I post it, and I work for a major company and no problems on our site.
  • Reply 64 of 174
    mactrippermactripper Posts: 1,328member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Roos24 View Post


    ...which come from the 30 million or so porn sites. This could well be one of the reasons of Apples policy and if so, I fully support it.





    Porn sites attack through Java, Javascript, Flash and anything else they can get their hands on, including Safari exploits. So the iPad will not be immune.



    If your viewing porn on your main machine, your a fool, if you use your real email with them or give them a credit card number your a bigger fool. If a exploit occurs, at the very least, all your unencrypted files are being uploaded and or read. At the worst, illegal pictures are being stored in your hidden caches or folders unknown to you, people have gone to jail for that.



    Use a cheap Dell netbook with Ubuntu, it comes with Firefox, install Flash and install NoScript, turn off Java and Javascript. Keep the Dell in a safe hidden place and use it like you would a stack of porn magazines, in private. Learn how to reinstall the OS, or better yet, clone it from a clean backup after every use.



    Your best to use a proxy server or a open wifi to mask your real IP address, as this can be used to find you. It's no guaranty from the government who has legal powers, but it does help against those who don't.



    Drastic measures I know, but there is a abundance of great quality adult material online and a abundance of masterminds with agendas, countries and people that hate your country or people and wish to set you up or steal your identity. Ubuntu Linux has little market share, thus little exploits since it's a permisisons based OS like Unix and OS X. Also your flushing your entire OS routinely, little chance anything unwanted is going to remain.
  • Reply 65 of 174
    pt123pt123 Posts: 696member
    On my ipod touch there is an option to turn javascript, popups, plugins on/off. Apple could do the same thing for Flash if it really wanted to. Heck, they could make those vocal Flash haters very happy by having it off by default. But free Flash internet video isn't the Steve Jobs way.
  • Reply 66 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dxdragon View Post


    Flash kind of sucks if you have dealt with it in Linux or Mac OSX you would hate it... Even in windows it is buggy and its probably the biggest security risk to the machine after IE.



    Here are the reasons why flash should be kept out the iPhone and iPad.



    1. Performance hog

    2. Security vulnerabilities

    3. Crash prone

    4. Flash games are not meant for a touch screen device



    If the iPad or iPhone had flash it still wouldn?t be able to play most flash games because those games weren't designed for a touch interface.... Also most sites are moving to html5 to display video like YouTube and Vimeo. All we need is for Hulu to follow suit and end of flash to display video will happen soon after.



    The iPad is directed at people that just want things to work and those individuals wouldn?t know that the reason why their experience isn?t perfect is because of flash and not the iPad. I read a post yesterday that stated that they were thinking about buying one for their kid but probably won?t because without flash the games on Disney won?t work. I normally just read and don?t post but what I did feel the urge to tell him that those games weren?t built for a touch interface so even if the iPad supported flash those games wouldn?t work.



    And that is the core of the issue. Allowing something in your system that just play sucks is silly and shouldn?t be done especially when most people will blame the device not the software for the issue. Techies know the cause of the problem but most people don?t. Try to explain the difference between RAM and a Hard Drive and see how long it takes regular people to understand it (also see how many actually care how it works).



    Sorry... but WHY would the games not work? I'm not a developer, but if: click, drag and move actions are initiated by touch, or by mouse... what does Actionscript care? A tap is a click, a hold and drag is a move.



    I respect your point of view... but with clicktoflash-functionality, which Apple is certainly capable of, I can see Flash 10.1 coming to the iPad.... however, NOT to the iPod or iPhone due to performance issues (or so Apple would say).
  • Reply 67 of 174
    One thing people don't address is Flash Games or other interactive content. Can HTML5 replicate that experience? If so I would love to see an example website that has a game that is 100% HTML5.



    Also of note is that HTML5 is not a standard yet, won't be for atleast 3 years and that the current version that Apple is pushing is just a way for them to push H.264 which I imagine they may profit off (thats the sticking point in the standard negotiations, as some people rightly want any video codec to be royality free). In addition, the worlds largest browser IE does not support HTML5, and probably wont until the standard is done.



    So I guess Apple wants websites to create two versions of their sites, one for legacy HTML4 and another for appleHTML5. And even when HTML5 becomes an agreed standard, you can force users to upgrade even from older versions of other browsers beyond IE that don't support the final spec properly. So yes, Flash will be useful for years.



    Not to then also mention if games can be created in HTML5, and the millions of flash video and games that won't automatically convert over to HTML5.



    Imagine the backlash if Microsoft was forcing a new unfinished standard and locking out Flash from Windows 7 etc... But its okay for Apple to do this. And the iPhone was one thing, but this will be the first full screen browsing device that doesn't have Flash. Sure I hate it, prefer silverlight and sure I will prefer HTML5 for video when it comes out. But Flash is basically apart of the HTML4 universe.



    Not that people should be forced to use flash either, have a setting to enable it or disable it. Even force people to click to load the flash element they want. But this will come back and bite Apple. Because, yes people will return the iPad if the find their favourite website doesn't work like they want it to. And people don't care about the technicle aspects or that Apple blames the webmaster. They just know it worked on their other Mac/PC and doesn't work here.
  • Reply 68 of 174
    lvidallvidal Posts: 158member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    Steve Jobs is far too meticulous in preparing his presentations to have "accidentally" opened a website with Flash that the iPad can't display. I have to believe that he knew full well what he was doing, and it was intentional.



    It was a message to web developers, and it said: "We've sold millions and millions of iPhones without Flash and made so much money we can't even count it all. We intend to do the same with this new device. And if you want your websites to work properly on our shiny new toy, you need to stop using Flash."



    Completely agree! They are making pressure to put flash out of the way and they are going to make it.
  • Reply 69 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    Porn sites attack through Java, Javascript, Flash and anything else they can get their hands on, including Safari exploits. So the iPad will not be immune.



    If your viewing porn on your main machine, your a fool, if you use your real email with them or give them a credit card number your a bigger fool. If a exploit occurs, at the very least, all your unencrypted files are being uploaded and or read. At the worst, illegal pictures are being stored in your hidden caches or folders unknown to you, people have gone to jail for that.



    Use a cheap Dell netbook with Ubuntu, it comes with Firefox, install Flash and install NoScript, turn off Java and Javascript. Keep the Dell in a safe hidden place and use it like you would a stack of porn magazines, in private. Learn how to reinstall the OS, or better yet, clone it from a clean backup after every use.



    Your best to use a proxy server or a open wifi to mask your real IP address, as this can be used to find you. It's no guaranty from the government who has legal powers, but it does help against those who don't.



    Drastic measures I know, but there is a abundance of great quality adult material online and a abundance of masterminds with agendas, countries and people that hate your country or people and wish to set you up or steal your identity. Ubuntu Linux has little market share, thus little exploits since it's a permisisons based OS like Unix and OS X. Also your flushing your entire OS routinely, little chance anything unwanted is going to remain.



    Jeez 'Trip'... ya make me want to go out to a sleazy bar and pick up a 2-cent ____, (amoung other associated nasties) rather than use the safety of my computer for "frivolous pursuits".



    That side of the net is the equivalent of an "escort club" vs. the "red-light district". Quality over quantity. A Mac user should be well versed by now which is the best way to go.



    But yes... another reason why Apple should add Flash. Porn is the shaker and mover in the tech industry. Heck... it built the internet!... won the VHS-Beta war...won the DVD war...and now BR over HD. Sad to say... but all true.
  • Reply 70 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by techno View Post


    I wonder if Flash on the iPad would make it feel snappier.





    The number one issue why system browsers crash is Flash. Apple does not support flash because it based off and when the 3rd party company wants to update their plugin. HTML5 is a better and open source format that is a lot better than flash.



    Next time safari or other browsers crash check you crash logs. or filter the logs and look for flash and see if you have been plagued by these crashed.



    Adobe not writing there apps in Coco but they are still using Carbon which apple has been moving away from that 32 bit structure.



    Flash also uses more processor and more processor = less battery life.
  • Reply 71 of 174
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post


    I smell a class action law suit coming.... although not exactly sure how it would be written.



    How can you have a lawsuit for an unreleased product that couldn't order if you wanted to?
  • Reply 72 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nkhm View Post


    It DOESN'T work, that's the point. It's not stable, it consumes up to 100% processor power, it causes over heating and drains battery life, while causing hangs and browser crashes.



    Strange. It works fine on every PCs I own and no problems yet on my mobile device. Don't tell me a huge company like Apple can't figure out Flash -- if there's a will, there's a way.



    See. This is a reason why Apple fans have bad rep: some Apple fans are blinded by their love for the company and, moreover, they spread fallacies and FUD in an attempt to support their tainted opinion.
  • Reply 73 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post


    How can you have a lawsuit for an unreleased product that couldn't order if you wanted to?



    Welcome to the good ol' US of A...
  • Reply 74 of 174
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    Steve Jobs is far too meticulous in preparing his presentations to have "accidentally" opened a website with Flash that the iPad can't display. I have to believe that he knew full well what he was doing, and it was intentional.



    It was a message to web developers, and it said: "We've sold millions and millions of iPhones without Flash and made so much money we can't even count it all. We intend to do the same with this new device. And if you want your websites to work properly on our shiny new toy, you need to stop using Flash."



    Developers should have gotten that message a long time ago, they should always provide alternate content for devices where flash is not enabled. As far as advertisers are concerned, they are getting ripped off since the ads are usually brokered and neither the the sites running them, the creators, or the broker want to pay extra for an alternate version. Also websites can't tell if click to flash is installed or not to trigger the display of alternate content.



    I dislike ads as much as the next person especially flash ads since it makes it difficult to read when things are flying around the page, I by no means want to see flash banned because I use it quite a bit for industrial and scientific work which I won't go into in details of but there is nothing to replace flash for what I do.



    Video can easily be delivered in some standards based format so that is something that Adobe should not expect to last much longer as flash but of course that depends entirely on the cooperation of the video content creators. I think flash will be around for a long time sort like fax machines.
  • Reply 75 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    Steve Jobs is far too meticulous in preparing his presentations to have "accidentally" opened a website with Flash that the iPad can't display. I have to believe that he knew full well what he was doing, and it was intentional.



    It was a message to web developers, and it said: "We've sold millions and millions of iPhones without Flash and made so much money we can't even count it all. We intend to do the same with this new device. And if you want your websites to work properly on our shiny new toy, you need to stop using Flash."



    I agree, he hovered on it several times as if to say 'See, it's not there'. If it had not been intentional, he would have switched pages sooner.
  • Reply 76 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dbossmon View Post


    The number one issue why system browsers crash is Flash.



    Oh all this time I thought it was Windows?
  • Reply 77 of 174
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post


    what does Actionscript care? A tap is a click, a hold and drag is a move.



    Click fine, but drag is considered a pan, and there is no hover. Touch screens make quite a few compromises in the user experience. Disregarding Flash entirely, most of the mouse actions in Javascript are ignored as well.



    BTW I did notice that in the iPad calendar app it was running full screen and so in that case a drag was considered a hover, but that would not work the same way on an iPhone since it could not run full screen. There are a number of differences even though they both run iPhone OS.
  • Reply 78 of 174
    tinktink Posts: 395member


    It just works!

    \
  • Reply 79 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Intosh View Post


    Strange. It works fine on every PCs I own and no problems yet on my mobile device. Don't tell me a huge company like Apple can't figure out Flash -- if there's a will, there's a way.



    See. This is a reason why Apple fans have bad rep: some Apple fans are blinded by their love for the company and, moreover, they spread fallacies and FUD in an attempt to support their tainted opinion.



    Key word: PCs, aka Microsoft Windows.



    Would be nice if they optimized it for OSX and others.



    While 10.1 is optimized for various platforms, ARM Tegra and others, it still is redundant. YouTube uses h.264/aac, so why bother with Flash for that when it already is built in to the itouch/iphone/ipad?



    HTML5 aside, all you need is a quicktime tag to make it work currently.



    However, there still is all that vector stuff and other stuff flash does, like preventing ppl from copying streams that HTML5 doesn't address. What then?
  • Reply 80 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by techno View Post


    I wonder if Flash on the iPad would make it feel snappier.



    Actually, Flash is a processor hog and even Adobe is phasing it out as a player switching gear to make it a content creator.ine that Jobs was just ru HTML 5 bypasses Flash movies to play them within the browser not via a plug-in (I think that's how it works) and is MUCH snappier. The iPad doesn't have Flash because it doesn't need it. That's why it is working on the web promo. As for the Keynote presentation, either jobs was thumbing his nose at Adobe or the version of Safari for iPhone OS (3.2?) doesn't have HTML 5 compatibility yet.
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