Steve Jobs calls Flash a 'CPU hog' in meeting with WSJ - rumor

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
In a recent meeting with officials from The Wall Street Journal to pitch the Apple iPad, Steve Jobs allegedly and unsurprisingly had harsh words for Adobe Flash, calling it "old technology."



According to Valleywag, Jobs met with officials from the newspaper weeks ago to talk to them about the possibility of bringing the Journal to the iPad. When Jobs demonstrated the device, editors allegedly asked about the iPad's lack of support for Adobe Flash.



Much of what the Apple co-founder allegedly said is similar to what was attributed to him from a recent company town hall meeting: Flash is a "CPU hog" that is full of "security holes." He also reportedly said, "We don't spend a lot of energy on old technology."



Jobs is then rumored to have gone on to compare Flash to a number of now-defunct technologies that Apple abandoned, including floppy drives, old data ports (including FireWire 400), and even the CD, replaced by the iPod and iTunes. He also allegedly said including Flash support would reduce the iPad's battery life from 10 hours to just 1.5 hours.



The multi-billionaire reportedly suggested that the newspaper abandon Flash -- a "trivial" move -- and embrace an alternative, like the H.264 codec.



During that same meeting, Journal editor Alan Murray posted to Twitter from an iPad Jobs brought with him. That incident reportedly upset Jobs, who allegedly had the editor delete the post after he was said to be "furious."



In an e-mail to Gawker, Murray reportedly said: "I will say that Apple's general paranoia about news coverage is truly extraordinary? but that's not telling you anything you didn't already know."



Apple and Adobe have had a high-profile dispute over the use of Flash on the Web since the iPhone debuted in 2007 without support for the Web format. Apple has famously shunned Flash, with the Web plugin having no support in the iPhone or iPod touch Safari browser.



This week, Adobe's CTO defended his company against comments attributed to Jobs from the town hall meeting. Kevin Lynch acknowledged that Mac users have had issues with Flash, and that the Mac version does not work as well as its PC counterpart, but he said the company is working to address the concerns of users.



"We're totally open to hearing feedback like that," Lynch said. "And that's one of the really important things to do in a situation like this, when people are complaining about something -- not going into internal mode, or whatever, (but) really listening to what people are saying. We do that with our customers, we do that with our critics, and often there are kernels in there that we ought to do something about, and so we are."
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 291
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 1,884member
    My only little criticism of Jobs' Adobe bashing is when he calls Adobe "lazy." It is understandable that he would use that characterization, but that kind of statement makes it sound like Adobe employees spend all their time on Facebook. The real issue is that people in Adobe management choose to allocate resources in a way that results in Flash performing poorly -- that is, they choose not to spend resources on making it the best product it can be. That's not so much "lazy" as it is "bad management".



    [edited for grammar failures]
  • Reply 2 of 291
    Furious? That sounds like gawker linkbait to me. Pissed off sure - but if he's capable of turning green, his gamma radiated biceps ripping through his black turtleneck and chucking Wall Street Journal executives out 30th floor windows, then that'd be fun to imagine - but doubtful.
  • Reply 3 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post


    My only little criticism of Jobs' Adobe bashing is when he calls Adobe "lazy." It is understandable that he would use that characterization, but that kind of statement makes it sound like Adobe employees spend all their time on Facebook. The real issue is that people in Adobe management choose to allocate resources in a way that results in Flash performing poorly -- that is, they choose not to spend resources on making it the best product it can be. That's not so much "lazy" as it is "bad management".



    [edited for grammar failures]



    The funny part about this entire HTML5 and Adobe Flash issue is its a non issue for most users. Its only an issue for Safari users. The rest of the world could care less if HTML5 or Flash is used as long as their video works.



    Jobs is the only one with the bug up his a$$ because Flash isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
  • Reply 4 of 291
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Sounds like iSteve needs some therapy.
  • Reply 5 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    The rest of the world could care less if HTML5 or Flash is used as long as their video works.



    One of the best comments on Apple Insider for some time. The general public who are the majority of people buying stuff don't care about how things work, as long as they do.
  • Reply 6 of 291
    solsunsolsun Posts: 763member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post


    One of the best comments on Apple Insider for some time. The general public who are the majority of people buying stuff don't care about how things work, as long as they do.



    Depends what your definition of "work" is.. A perfect example is one I found in a Flash thread here yesterday.. www.jimcarrey.com. On a 2009 MacbookPro, my battery estimate decreased by 50% while testing out that site.. To me, that means it's not working...





    Another annoying site.. www.nike.com... It's all Flash, buggy as hell and slow.. The worst part is I need to visit it every day to log my Nike+ miles, which ironically is a product that was developed jointly by Nike and Apple, but yet the site is completely unviewable by the iDevices that the Nike+ system was designed to work on (iPod touch/iPhone 3gs)...
  • Reply 7 of 291
    Here we have another post that plays "he said/she said" without bothering to evaluate the content of any of the statements quoted. Like most political coverage, this isn't journalism - it's textual bulimia. The writer scans some press releases and regurgitates a mashup that's sort of green, maybe brown, a bit yellow, and not good for anything but flushing.



    Is Flash "old technology," in the sense of "obsolete technology." Is it a CPU hog? Is it trivial for sites that depend on video to change to another format?



    If we care, we'll have to find out for ourselves. All we'll get here is celebrity entertainment coverage. Steve doesn't like Adobe. Steve said a Mean Thing. Adobe's feelings are hurt. Steve really doesn't like journalists.



    The last is at least remarkable. Given that there are clearly so very, very few of them left, it's a little like having a dodo phobia.
  • Reply 8 of 291
    mactelmactel Posts: 1,275member
    It goes both ways. Adobe slammed the Mac the other day by saying it was difficult for them to come out with a faster version on the OS. Their comments just reinforce Jobs rumored statements that their developers are lazy.
  • Reply 9 of 291
    Quote:

    Steve Jobs calls Flash a 'CPU hog' in meeting with WSJ





    Sure it's a CPU hog when it's running on the underpowered devices like the iPhone, iPod Touch and the mere 1 Ghz iPad which Flash wasn't designed to run on.



    Flash was designed with the increase of processor performance on computers in mind, not these underpowered hand held devices.
  • Reply 10 of 291
    panupanu Posts: 135member
    The iPad isn't approved by the FCC yet. Using it violates regulations and could get Apple in trouble. Jobs was right to be upset that Alan Murphy used its wireless capabilities.
  • Reply 11 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post


    One of the best comments on Apple Insider for some time. The general public who are the majority of people buying stuff don't care about how things work, as long as they do.



    Very true. The general public traditionally doesn't care about technical superiority otherwise, to use a very old example, Beta would have beaten out VHS.



    P.S. And yes I know about the licensing issues - the format was technically better than VHS



    P.P.S. Don't forget, Flash's claim to fame was that Microsoft adopted it to destroy QuickTime. Not because it was better - only because it wasn't Apple.
  • Reply 12 of 291
    solsunsolsun Posts: 763member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Woohoo! View Post


    Sure it's a CPU hog when it's running on the underpowered devices like the iPhone, iPod Touch and the mere 1 Ghz iPad which Flash wasn't designed to run on.



    See my above post.. 2009 MacBook Pro. 2.53 GHZ Core2Duo. 4 GB RAM..



    And FLash on a MacBook Air?? Forget it..
  • Reply 13 of 291
    ilogicilogic Posts: 298member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post


    One of the best comments on Apple Insider for some time. The general public who are the majority of people buying stuff don't care about how things work, as long as they do.



    Really I think that wasn't a good comment at all, or are you failing to see that those same people are also the same people who have nothing to do with innovating technology?



    The internet needs open standards, the rendering engines that can blaze through HTML5 will elevate the web browsing experience. Flash:RIP.
  • Reply 14 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post


    One of the best comments on Apple Insider for some time. The general public who are the majority of people buying stuff don't care about how things work, as long as they do.



    Unless your laptop sounds like a 747 at take-off when you're only browsing the web. Sure they don't care whether it is Flash or HTML5, but the fact that you have the noise and the heat matters.
  • Reply 15 of 291
    auxioauxio Posts: 1,920member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post


    One of the best comments on Apple Insider for some time. The general public who are the majority of people buying stuff don't care about how things work, as long as they do.



    Sure. However, companies that manufacture, sell, and provide support for computers do care when those same people who don't know/don't care are bringing their computers in for service/support due to problems (unknowingly) caused by Flash.



    Now, while you can say: "sure, but this isn't specific to Flash, it's true for all software people install", the fact is that Flash tends to be much more invisible to people than full-fledged applications. So it's very easy for someone to mistake the problems caused by Flash as being Safari's or Mac OS's fault. Whereas with full-fledged applications, it's easier to see that it's that particular application causing problems (not Apple's software).



    The same thing holds true for poor device drivers (which plague the Windows PC world).



    So when you see the bigger picture here (i.e. the effect on Apple's bottom line), it's easier to understand why it's a big deal to Jobs/Apple.
  • Reply 16 of 291
    Flash, to me, is the developer's lazy way out when creating content for the web. I totally agree with Steve Jobs. It's annoying, it hogs CPU, it's buggy, and it's monopolizing multimedia development. (In fact, can't that be said for all of Adobe's products?)



    Here's why HTML5 and CSS2 technologies would work: they can manipulate video, audio and imagery without plugins. Because of this, there will be less CPU usage and more efficiency in web development. It's that simple. Why learn a new program for creating multimedia web design when you will soon be able to do it with the tools you already know to create static content? Flash is like fat when clogged into arteries. When those arteries (PCs, Macs, and any other digital device) become overcrowded, things tend not to work as well or shut down altogether.
  • Reply 17 of 291
    grkinggrking Posts: 533member
    Here is Holman's response to Steve Jobs and Flash, on his WSJ blog.



    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...tml?mg=com-wsj



    The title of which is "The Microsofting of Apple? Apple is in danger of becoming preoccupied with zero-sm maneuvering vs hated rivals"
  • Reply 18 of 291
    MacProMacPro Posts: 17,775member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Woohoo! View Post


    Sure it's a CPU hog when it's running on the underpowered devices like the iPhone, iPod Touch and the mere 1 Ghz iPad which Flash wasn't designed to run on.



    Thats the whole point, mobile is the future. Old technology is fine when you are plugged in.
  • Reply 19 of 291
    grkinggrking Posts: 533member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Crtaylor View Post


    Flash, to me, is the developer's lazy way out when creating content for the web. I totally agree with Steve Jobs. It's annoying, it hogs CPU, it's buggy, and it's monopolizing multimedia development. (In fact, can't that be said for all of Adobe's products?)



    Here's why HTML5 and CSS2 technologies would work: they can manipulate video, audio and imagery without plugins. Because of this, there will be less CPU usage and more efficiency in web development. It's that simple. Why learn a new program for creating multimedia web design when you will soon be able to do it with the tools you already know to create static content? Flash is like fat when clogged into arteries. When those arteries (PCs, Macs, and any other digital device) become overcrowded, things tend not to work as well or shut down altogether.



    except that HTML 5 standards are not set, and are not expected to be finalized for many years to come. In the meantime then, theoretically there can be different implementations which forces companies like Apple and Microsoft and others to write code to handle it al.



    Thing is, Flash has never crashed my Mac when I run Firefox, but Safari crashes frequently. YMMV, but one has to wonder where the issue lies.
  • Reply 20 of 291
    grkinggrking Posts: 533member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    Thats the whole point, mobile is the future. Old technology is fine when you are plugged in.



    I certainly hope not. Given the recent issues with Cloud Computing and server failures, I do not want my personal stuff sitting on some server in some country. I want it on my computer.
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