"Oh wait, we don't actually occupy the WB/Gaza, it was given over the Palestinians in the Oslo Accords in 93. Oops, looks like there's no occupation, and the few tanks and soldiers we send in to dismantle terrorist infrastructure is because the PA simply will not do it."
No occupation? Thats like saying there is no terrorism.
And your goss simplifications and sarcastic tone just does not hold any water.
I wonder, can you stretch your self to see only a little bit ( even just hypothetical) why the Palestinians are angry?? Your story makes it seem like all of Israel is just like one big episode of "Father Knows Best" and those 'darn Palestinians are throwin rocks again! Why dont they just stop?? ' Are you able to put your self in the place of a young Palestinian who is in the middle of a war? Who can not move in or out of his city? In order to see both sides of this conflict you need to put your self into both places. Imagine being a terrified witness to a suicide bomber AS WELL as being a terrified witness to your people being killed by tanks from Israel.
. What you suggest is like asking me to go and live in France (no offense Powerdoc ) because our queen offended Russia and they want our land in return. Or you to live in England because US is given back to the Indians.
.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Anyway you are wellcome Anders
To be more serious , the situation is becoming worse and worse.)
The Palestinians hate the jews, even if the terrorist are a minority. there is an evil circle as you have discribe : terrorist kill jews, retaliations from Israel, more hate among the palestinians and therefore the terrorist becoming more popular ----> more terrorism ...
Is there is somebody on earth who have a solution to break this evil circle of violence and pain ?
heheh... ya Steeve. You should listen to Nick? You really should be watching the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation). <insert sarcasm> Or better yet, watch the BBC. <insert sarcasm> They?re a great source of unbiased coverage.
The CBC had so much experience of sugar coating shit; it's a fine art to them. In just a couple of months they?ll have you believing that black is white, and white is black. But most importantly, you'll be saying: ?wow, Canada is the greatest country on Earth. We?re so much better than those Americans?. heheh.
But that's ok. Most Canadians eventually see through this crap. Some take longer than others.
<strong>heheh... ya Steeve. You should listen to Nick? You really should be watching the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation). <insert sarcasm> Or better yet, watch the BBC. <insert sarcasm> They?re a great source of unbiased coverage.
The CBC had so much experience of sugar coating shit; it's a fine art to them. In just a couple of months they?ll have you believing that black is white, and white is black. But most importantly, you'll be saying: ?wow, Canada is the greatest country on Earth. We?re so much better than those Americans?. heheh.
But that's ok. Most Canadians eventually see through this crap. Some take longer than others.
The CBC says none of that shit you just said. They don't say Canadians are better than Americans, but then how would you know, if you're in Israel how would you be able to watch CBC? Well, I'm in Canada, so I do watch the CBC so I know for a fact.
Now about this violence, it better end soon, cuz i might be going to Israel this summer and I don't want it to be more dangerous than it has to be.
I wonder, can you stretch your self to see only a little bit ( even just hypothetical) why the Palestinians are angry?? Your story makes it seem like all of Israel is just like one big episode of "Father Knows Best" and those 'darn Palestinians are throwin rocks again! Why dont they just stop?? ' Are you able to put your self in the place of a young Palestinian who is in the middle of a war? Who can not move in or out of his city? In order to see both sides of this conflict you need to put your self into both places. Imagine being a terrified witness to a suicide bomber AS WELL as being a terrified witness to your people being killed by tanks from Israel.
Just tell me you can..</strong><hr></blockquote>
If I was a young Palestinian witnessing some of my people killing innocent civillians and see Israeli reprisals, I'd want to know why that was going on. Maybe I'd ask one the martyrs-to-be and ask him why he does it.
He will either tell me that all Jews must die because they are evil Zionists or he might tell me they are trying and "force them" to recognize a Palestinian state.
Then I would say, "But the Israelies won't stop retaliating and won't negotiate until you guys stop the suicide bombings."
Then I'd hopefully understand why those Israeli tanks are moving in. Oh but wait, I might not, as I've been instructed from the time I was born to hate Jews and the only good Jew is a dead Jew.
I would have read much of this bullshit from textbooks paid for by the European Union and donated to the Palestinians. PA radio and TV along with Yasser Arafat do more brainwashing.
So thats what the Palestinian would be thinking, if one could think unless he or she had been brainwashed (like most are) from birth only to think murdering civilians is fine.
<strong>heheh... ya Steeve. You should listen to Nick? You really should be watching the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation). <insert sarcasm> Or better yet, watch the BBC. <insert sarcasm> They?re a great source of unbiased coverage. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually bud, CNN is my primary news network. The difference is, I don't watch a 5-minute propagandist segment of it and then reproduce it in the form of a post. Frankly, I have been quite impressed with the recent coverage on CNN.
Can others add to my list? I like jpost and the palestinechronicle the best. All of the above (maby not palestinedaily.com as it is just world news about palestine) have some hash things to say however. Take each with a some bias...
Can others post web pages? I want some more good palestine reporting now that I lost one <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> dude, you watch way too much CNN.
BTW, explain to me how destroying his compound and cutting-off all the phone lines allows him to arrest and punish the terrorists?</strong><hr></blockquote>
He can't arrest and punish the terrorists-they work for him!......................................
Take all the Jews in the settlements in the West Bank and bring them back into Israel. Take all the palestinians in Gaza and send them to the West Bank. Declare Gaza to be part of Israel and the West Bank to be Palestine. Prevent any Palestinians from entering Israel by military closing off the West Bank.
There-a Palestinian State and an Israel that can be protected. If the Palestinians don't go for it-then Israel should just do it anyway, by force.............................
So we've got Arafat and Sharon, two terrorists, trying to broker a peace deal? I'm so shocked it's not working out.
Israel should pull out of occupied territories and return Palestinian territory to Palestinians. Until then, they will be attacked by terrorists.
If these bombers really won't be satisfied until Israel is destroyed, then we can move forward from there, but until that point all of this "they want to push Israel into the ocean" rhetoric is just justification for maintaining the illegal occupation of Palestinian territories.
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> dude, you watch way too much CNN.
BTW, explain to me how destroying his compound and cutting-off all the phone lines allows him to arrest and punish the terrorists?</strong><hr></blockquote>
But Arafat is the terrorist. Always has been always will be. He's a murderer that needs to stand trial in the US for his roll in the kidnap and murder of US diplomats. He should be executed in the US for his crimes against our citizens.
Or are we still pretending that Arafat is not a terrorist?
[quote]But Arafat is the terrorist.<hr></blockquote>
He can't or won't do anything about the terrorism and Sharon yields to it, while still not taking any decisive action on the Palestinian 'leadership', which encourages the terrorism to continue, because it works. While that's lovely enough, my fear is that Israel refuses to take decisive action because they are afraid of what is coming next. Heh, let's see who comes along after Arafat.
i am going to go ahead now and say that i know i will get flamed for this, but it is what i believe. Success is cruelty. the only way either of these countries can really bring peace, is for one of them to disappear. i am not for people dying, but unfortunatly that is how you get things done. i hate saying it but fear is much easier to gain than respect. i know someone will tell me about mlk jr. or ghandi, and the to fight without violence, but it doesn't work for everything.
what i am saying is that israel does not want palastinians there, and vice versa. people can not be blind to what israel is doing, what palestine is doing, and how america, and other countries are reacting and supporting the massacres.
many of you should pay attention to the saying don't believe everything you see. actualy think about what is going on. i was very disturbed by someone who earlier said that israel was accidently killing innocent people, and even more so by who ever thought that freedom of the press actually means you get correct information. out of curiosity did any of you know that the f-117 stealth fighter has been not invisible to radar for 6 years now. and russia has had their own version of the f-22 for 14 years. in the us you have a free press, but you can't report what you don't know. many people do not know what is going on israel. so many people buy into he is my buddy or he is my enemy because your great grand daddy shot my great grand daddy. <<---- exaggeration.
in all reality the people of the world should just step back.
if i haven't pissed anyone off yet i gues this is where i start. let them duke it out. no help, no interference. The us should stop giving anyone in the world who is fighting someone america is annoyed with weapons. other countries should back off too. when people are forced to try to make peace by other people who are not involved it makes them made at the arbitrators. when a country as money oriented and as rich as the us for example stop trying to help it will allow people to put on their true faces.
think about it, when you were young did tell your parents that the 5 dollars they gave for lunch money went to lunch and a comic book. my point is that if israel or palastine are trying to impress the us or jordan or anyone than they will show them something they like. the problem is we, the world corrupt each other. many people put on acts to make other people think better of them so that they can accomplish whatever it is that they want, like make up and dating.
the problem is we cant back out, because we dont others to think that we are inhuman, or uncivilized, or maybe even unafraid.
i know this was confusing but just argue points, i also concede i have no specifics, mainly because there is always someone who knows more and will be offended for leaving a "key" piece out of a story.
if you want to really get a hold of me my email is [email protected]
myahmac, your views are not that radical compared to some things said here and around the world realy. I my self thought that at one point (several years ago) all out war was the best answer. But it would not be a war, it would be a genocide. I think a misunderstanding in the world is that Israel and Palestine are negotiating as equals. Palestine is under daly occupation and humiliation from the Israeli government. Israel is negotiating with a dog to let it run around the yard (and maby get to keep that piece over by the fence).
Israel is working from a stance of fear (a fear not all that unfounded) that Israel will lose its right to exist. But rather then consolidating what they have, they have expanded into sensitive regions with settlements that pose more threat to Israel then the Palestinians do. To day ha'aretz daily news is reporting that 375 reservists have refused to serve in the territories saying that this was "the war for the peace of the settlements." The settlers want all Arabs as far away as possible not matter how it is done. They call them Dogs, and less-than-human-pigs.
Yes war is what they want, because a war for them would be a genocide of the Palestinian people and all the land they want.
PS
myahmac, read those news pages I have above for a better picture of the conflicts day-to-day events.
Israel can live side by side with the Paletinians. The problem is the Arab world cannot stand the jews and wants them dead. This latest violence seems to be coming with strong backing of Iran. The entire Arab world is funding Arafat the terrorist so he can kill jews.
Comments
<strong>Arafat talks peace in english, then in arabic tells them that they will storm Jerusalem. </strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> dude, you watch way too much CNN.
BTW, explain to me how destroying his compound and cutting-off all the phone lines allows him to arrest and punish the terrorists?
No occupation? Thats like saying there is no terrorism.
And your goss simplifications and sarcastic tone just does not hold any water.
I wonder, can you stretch your self to see only a little bit ( even just hypothetical) why the Palestinians are angry?? Your story makes it seem like all of Israel is just like one big episode of "Father Knows Best" and those 'darn Palestinians are throwin rocks again! Why dont they just stop?? ' Are you able to put your self in the place of a young Palestinian who is in the middle of a war? Who can not move in or out of his city? In order to see both sides of this conflict you need to put your self into both places. Imagine being a terrified witness to a suicide bomber AS WELL as being a terrified witness to your people being killed by tanks from Israel.
Just tell me you can..
<strong>
. What you suggest is like asking me to go and live in France (no offense Powerdoc
.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Anyway you are wellcome Anders
To be more serious
The Palestinians hate the jews, even if the terrorist are a minority. there is an evil circle as you have discribe : terrorist kill jews, retaliations from Israel, more hate among the palestinians and therefore the terrorist becoming more popular ----> more terrorism ...
Is there is somebody on earth who have a solution to break this evil circle of violence and pain ?
The CBC had so much experience of sugar coating shit; it's a fine art to them. In just a couple of months they?ll have you believing that black is white, and white is black. But most importantly, you'll be saying: ?wow, Canada is the greatest country on Earth. We?re so much better than those Americans?. heheh.
But that's ok. Most Canadians eventually see through this crap. Some take longer than others.
mika.
[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
<strong>heheh... ya Steeve. You should listen to Nick? You really should be watching the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation). <insert sarcasm> Or better yet, watch the BBC. <insert sarcasm> They?re a great source of unbiased coverage.
The CBC had so much experience of sugar coating shit; it's a fine art to them. In just a couple of months they?ll have you believing that black is white, and white is black. But most importantly, you'll be saying: ?wow, Canada is the greatest country on Earth. We?re so much better than those Americans?. heheh.
But that's ok. Most Canadians eventually see through this crap. Some take longer than others.
mika.
[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
The CBC says none of that shit you just said. They don't say Canadians are better than Americans, but then how would you know, if you're in Israel how would you be able to watch CBC? Well, I'm in Canada, so I do watch the CBC so I know for a fact.
Now about this violence, it better end soon, cuz i might be going to Israel this summer and I don't want it to be more dangerous than it has to be.
[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: MacsKickAss ]</p>
<strong>
I wonder, can you stretch your self to see only a little bit ( even just hypothetical) why the Palestinians are angry?? Your story makes it seem like all of Israel is just like one big episode of "Father Knows Best" and those 'darn Palestinians are throwin rocks again! Why dont they just stop?? ' Are you able to put your self in the place of a young Palestinian who is in the middle of a war? Who can not move in or out of his city? In order to see both sides of this conflict you need to put your self into both places. Imagine being a terrified witness to a suicide bomber AS WELL as being a terrified witness to your people being killed by tanks from Israel.
Just tell me you can..</strong><hr></blockquote>
If I was a young Palestinian witnessing some of my people killing innocent civillians and see Israeli reprisals, I'd want to know why that was going on. Maybe I'd ask one the martyrs-to-be and ask him why he does it.
He will either tell me that all Jews must die because they are evil Zionists or he might tell me they are trying and "force them" to recognize a Palestinian state.
Then I would say, "But the Israelies won't stop retaliating and won't negotiate until you guys stop the suicide bombings."
Then I'd hopefully understand why those Israeli tanks are moving in. Oh but wait, I might not, as I've been instructed from the time I was born to hate Jews and the only good Jew is a dead Jew.
I would have read much of this bullshit from textbooks paid for by the European Union and donated to the Palestinians. PA radio and TV along with Yasser Arafat do more brainwashing.
So thats what the Palestinian would be thinking, if one could think unless he or she had been brainwashed (like most are) from birth only to think murdering civilians is fine.
[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: MacsKickAss ]</p>
Remember <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-12/30/118l-123099-idx.html"; target="_blank">Baruch Goldstein</a> and <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/daily/may99/amir14.htm"; target="_blank">Yigal Amir</a>?
<strong>heheh... ya Steeve. You should listen to Nick? You really should be watching the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation). <insert sarcasm> Or better yet, watch the BBC. <insert sarcasm> They?re a great source of unbiased coverage.
Actually bud, CNN is my primary news network. The difference is, I don't watch a 5-minute propagandist segment of it and then reproduce it in the form of a post. Frankly, I have been quite impressed with the recent coverage on CNN.
here are some good ones.
<a href="http://www.palestinechronicle.com/"; target="_blank">http://www.palestinechronicle.com/</a>;
<a href="http://www.jpost.com/"; target="_blank">http://www.jpost.com/</a>;
<a href="http://www.palestinedaily.com/"; target="_blank">http://www.palestinedaily.com/</a>;
<a href="http://www.israelnationalnews.com/"; target="_blank">http://www.israelnationalnews.com/</a>;
<a href="http://www.palestine-pmc.com/first.html"; target="_blank">http://www.palestine-pmc.com/first.html</a>; <-- This one is dead now <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<a href="http://www.haaretzdaily.com/"; target="_blank">http://www.haaretzdaily.com/</a>;
Can others add to my list? I like jpost and the palestinechronicle the best. All of the above (maby not palestinedaily.com as it is just world news about palestine) have some hash things to say however. Take each with a some bias...
Can others post web pages? I want some more good palestine reporting now that I lost one <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<strong>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> dude, you watch way too much CNN.
BTW, explain to me how destroying his compound and cutting-off all the phone lines allows him to arrest and punish the terrorists?</strong><hr></blockquote>
He can't arrest and punish the terrorists-they work for him!......................................
Take all the Jews in the settlements in the West Bank and bring them back into Israel. Take all the palestinians in Gaza and send them to the West Bank. Declare Gaza to be part of Israel and the West Bank to be Palestine. Prevent any Palestinians from entering Israel by military closing off the West Bank.
There-a Palestinian State and an Israel that can be protected. If the Palestinians don't go for it-then Israel should just do it anyway, by force.............................
Israel should pull out of occupied territories and return Palestinian territory to Palestinians. Until then, they will be attacked by terrorists.
If these bombers really won't be satisfied until Israel is destroyed, then we can move forward from there, but until that point all of this "they want to push Israel into the ocean" rhetoric is just justification for maintaining the illegal occupation of Palestinian territories.
<strong>If the arabs are the sole agressors, why is the death rate 1 israeli to 5 palestinians?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Because they are on the losing side. They've lost. They picked a fight with a force that they can't win against. Like the US vs. Taliban/Al Queda.
How could the death toll in and of itself tell you anything about which side is right or wrong?
<strong>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> dude, you watch way too much CNN.
BTW, explain to me how destroying his compound and cutting-off all the phone lines allows him to arrest and punish the terrorists?</strong><hr></blockquote>
But Arafat is the terrorist. Always has been always will be. He's a murderer that needs to stand trial in the US for his roll in the kidnap and murder of US diplomats. He should be executed in the US for his crimes against our citizens.
Or are we still pretending that Arafat is not a terrorist?
He can't or won't do anything about the terrorism and Sharon yields to it, while still not taking any decisive action on the Palestinian 'leadership', which encourages the terrorism to continue, because it works. While that's lovely enough, my fear is that Israel refuses to take decisive action because they are afraid of what is coming next. Heh, let's see who comes along after Arafat.
what i am saying is that israel does not want palastinians there, and vice versa. people can not be blind to what israel is doing, what palestine is doing, and how america, and other countries are reacting and supporting the massacres.
many of you should pay attention to the saying don't believe everything you see. actualy think about what is going on. i was very disturbed by someone who earlier said that israel was accidently killing innocent people, and even more so by who ever thought that freedom of the press actually means you get correct information. out of curiosity did any of you know that the f-117 stealth fighter has been not invisible to radar for 6 years now. and russia has had their own version of the f-22 for 14 years. in the us you have a free press, but you can't report what you don't know. many people do not know what is going on israel. so many people buy into he is my buddy or he is my enemy because your great grand daddy shot my great grand daddy. <<---- exaggeration.
in all reality the people of the world should just step back.
if i haven't pissed anyone off yet i gues this is where i start. let them duke it out. no help, no interference. The us should stop giving anyone in the world who is fighting someone america is annoyed with weapons. other countries should back off too. when people are forced to try to make peace by other people who are not involved it makes them made at the arbitrators. when a country as money oriented and as rich as the us for example stop trying to help it will allow people to put on their true faces.
think about it, when you were young did tell your parents that the 5 dollars they gave for lunch money went to lunch and a comic book. my point is that if israel or palastine are trying to impress the us or jordan or anyone than they will show them something they like. the problem is we, the world corrupt each other. many people put on acts to make other people think better of them so that they can accomplish whatever it is that they want, like make up and dating.
the problem is we cant back out, because we dont others to think that we are inhuman, or uncivilized, or maybe even unafraid.
i know this was confusing but just argue points, i also concede i have no specifics, mainly because there is always someone who knows more and will be offended for leaving a "key" piece out of a story.
if you want to really get a hold of me my email is [email protected]
Israel is working from a stance of fear (a fear not all that unfounded) that Israel will lose its right to exist. But rather then consolidating what they have, they have expanded into sensitive regions with settlements that pose more threat to Israel then the Palestinians do. To day ha'aretz daily news is reporting that 375 reservists have refused to serve in the territories saying that this was "the war for the peace of the settlements." The settlers want all Arabs as far away as possible not matter how it is done. They call them Dogs, and less-than-human-pigs.
Yes war is what they want, because a war for them would be a genocide of the Palestinian people and all the land they want.
PS
myahmac, read those news pages I have above for a better picture of the conflicts day-to-day events.
What's Israel to do. Die?